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Switching modes really affects how the car drives. I can't imagine adjusting it very often, I'd drive like an rear end in a top hat as I re-learned how to manage speed with the accelerator every time.
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Nov 10, 2016 04:35
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I just love that EVs get to choose if they want it to behave like an auto (coast) or a real car (regen). I'll take mostly one foot driving every day.
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Nov 10, 2016 04:44
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Subjunctive posted:Switching modes really affects how the car drives. I can't imagine adjusting it very often, I'd drive like an rear end in a top hat as I re-learned how to manage speed with the accelerator every time. A.K.A. rental car syndrome
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Nov 10, 2016 05:41
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ilkhan posted:I just love that EVs get to choose if they want it to behave like an auto (coast) or a real car (regen). I'll take mostly one foot driving every day. Just saying, I don't think automatics necessarily mean letting off the gas behaves like coasting.
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Nov 10, 2016 06:00
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Letting up on the accelerator should result in freewheeling. If I wanted to slow down, I’d use the brake pedal. 
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Nov 10, 2016 06:18
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Platystemon posted:Letting up on the accelerator should result in freewheeling. Thats not how it works in a normal car why would it work that way in an electric car when you can use that to recharge the batteries.
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Nov 10, 2016 07:23
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D C posted:Thats not how it works in a normal car why would it work that way in an electric car when you can use that to recharge the batteries. Maybe we should put a fog machine in the back that turns on for a few minutes on cold days, for that authentic ICE experience. Or not, because electric cars aren’t conventional cars and they shouldn’t slavishly follow the behaviour of conventional cars. Blend regen on the brake pedal and use the pads only when necessary.
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Nov 10, 2016 07:47
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Make mechanical brakes the backup solution, wind the motors to regen as much kWh as they can output as power. Use cruise control of you want to maintain a speed. One pedal driving is fun, we got enough distracted driver issues with people texting as is.
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Nov 10, 2016 09:51
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roomforthetuna posted:I have a Nissan Cube which is an automatic (CVT) roomforthetuna posted:and it still does significant engine braking roomforthetuna posted:if you let the accelerator all the way up roomforthetuna posted:(except at very low speeds where it accelerates). roomforthetuna posted:Just saying, I don't think automatics necessarily mean letting off the gas behaves like coasting.
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Nov 10, 2016 10:11
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Phuzun posted:Make mechanical brakes the backup solution, wind the motors to regen as much kWh as they can output as power. Use cruise control of you want to maintain a speed. One pedal driving is fun, we got enough distracted driver issues with people texting as is. Here’s a situation I face occasionally: a red light some distance down an empty highway. I don’t want to brake till I get close to the light, but I also don’t want to keep adding energy right up to that time. Feathering the accelerator to avoid regen is distracting (albeit only mildly in this empty‐highway scenario). Shifting to neutral is dangerous. It would be great if I could coast with my foot resting on the pedal.
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Nov 10, 2016 10:28
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It probably depends on whether your preference and experience with vehicles is with automatics or manuals. Here's another scenario, going down a long incline like in the mountains. Prefer to ride the brake pedal the whole way down, or just downshift to 4th or even 3rd and engine brake the whole incline? Or in heavy, accordion traffic on the highway, being part of the cascade of brake lights every few seconds, or just lift off the gas a bit and only brake 2hen necessary? There's no right answer, just preference. Personally I prefer strong engine braking, like a large single cylinder motorcycle - you almost never use the brake except to indicate to those behind that you're slowing down. I would have regen on pedal lift set to maximum. What's kind if weird and interesting is that companies are giving you the option to adjust it to your preference because with drive and brake by wire, now they can. On the flip side, it makes the driving experience that bit more generic. Car companies spend a lot of time deciding what their car should feel like to drive, especially in the luxury and performance segments. If they give the end user full control over that feel, that's great, but that's one less thing to differentiate yourself from the competition. I guess they could still program a base map that says "this is what we feel a BMW electric car should feel like", and let you futz with it because actually you prefer what a Tesla feels like, but the BMW looks prettier or something.
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Nov 10, 2016 14:54
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Ola posted:If I ever get a Tesla, I'm wrapping it matte blue metallic. I am looking at the Hybrid RAV4 in electric storm blue. Question: has anyone with an electric or hybrid had corrosion problems on the traction battery posts? I am kinda worried about that.
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Nov 10, 2016 15:00
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Platystemon posted:Here’s a situation I face occasionally: a red light some distance down an empty highway. This is how the volt works in D. When coasting you are getting a tiny amount of regen over a longer distance which is how I like to drive. The brake pedal is blended so you do get regen when slight depressing.
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Nov 10, 2016 15:54
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Platystemon posted:Here’s a situation I face occasionally: a red light some distance down an empty highway. Like Finger Prince said, its a matter of preference. Different manufacturers will still have preferences, and the defaults (which most people will never change away from) will still differentiate them.
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Nov 10, 2016 16:40
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Three-Phase posted:I am looking at the Hybrid RAV4 in electric storm blue. I've never heard of that being an issue on Priuses, which keep the traction battery inside the cabin so you have that wonderful1 battery smell every time you get in the car. 1: take it or leave it v  v
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Nov 10, 2016 18:44
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Cocoa Crispies posted:I've never heard of that being an issue on Priuses, which keep the traction battery inside the cabin so you have that wonderful1 battery smell every time you get in the car. I kinda prefer the "cooked varnish" smell when you push 2000A through a motor starting reactor for the very first time. I met this guy at a dealership who did the Hybrid stuff, the guy was a genius. Work was slow and we spent drat near a half-hour talking about the cells and batteries, the MGs (three-phase with a permanent magnet rotor), inverter, everything. I was blown away.
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Nov 10, 2016 19:12
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Collateral Damage posted:Why does it have a separate control for regenerative braking instead of just using the brake pedal? The Arcimoto electric motorcycle(-like vehicle) separates them; handlebar brake does regen braking, foot brake does physical braking. It was a little disconcerting on my test drive since you normally want to be using regen but when you actually get to a stop you're essentially in neutral and need to use the foot brake to maintain position. If and when I get one it'll probably also do terrible things to my actual motorcycle muscle memory, whatever remains of it from when I last rode long ago.
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Nov 10, 2016 22:21
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fordan posted:The Arcimoto electric motorcycle(-like vehicle) separates them; handlebar brake does regen braking, foot brake does physical braking. It was a little disconcerting on my test drive since you normally want to be using regen but when you actually get to a stop you're essentially in neutral and need to use the foot brake to maintain position. Not a bad idea, if slightly controversial, but they implemented it the wrong way. Friction brake should be on the handlebar, that's the main brake and it's what a rider should go for in case of FUUUUCK e: holding a control in for a long downhill would also kind of suck. Rotating the gas maybe? Nah, still think engine braking and selectable effect works the best.
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Nov 10, 2016 22:28
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Ola posted:Not a bad idea, if slightly controversial, but they implemented it the wrong way. Friction brake should be on the handlebar, that's the main brake and it's what a rider should go for in case of FUUUUCK The Vectrix electric scooter did something like that. Twisting the throttle backwards engaged the regen brake, and a conventional handlebar brake handled friction braking.
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Nov 10, 2016 23:36
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Cockmaster posted:The Vectrix electric scooter did something like that. Twisting the throttle backwards engaged the regen brake, and a conventional handlebar brake handled friction braking. It should have a "panic mode" where if you twist back really hard it also applies friction brake.
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Nov 11, 2016 02:10
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Put a lever on the steering column like a Model T's throttle to control the regen level. Easy to set and forget at your favorite level, easy to tweak on the fly in the few cases it makes sense to. Semi-serious. It'd be cool at least, maybe pointless since most of those situations where you'd want to change it on the fly to anything other than max or none would be better served by just integrating the cruise control which I assume most EVs and hybrids probably already do.
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Nov 11, 2016 03:43
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Ola posted:e: holding a control in for a long downhill would also kind of suck. Rotating the gas maybe? Nah, still think engine braking and selectable effect works the best. This is where satnav and/or autopilot having grade and altitude information can really help. I normally just use cruise control on long downhill grades (automatic.)
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Nov 11, 2016 04:57
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Why not just provide a single brake control and let the vehicle decide the friction/regen balance, maybe with a mechanical failsafe if you panic stop?
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Nov 11, 2016 05:14
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West SAAB Story posted:unnecessary
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Nov 11, 2016 06:22
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Cocoa Crispies posted:Why not just provide a single brake control and let the vehicle decide the friction/regen balance, maybe with a mechanical failsafe if you panic stop? This might make sense in theory, but in ergonomic practice it's a lot better with one-pedal driving. In theory you think "add power when you want to go faster, brake or regen when you want to go slower, simple". In practice you don't always add power when you want to go faster, you might just engine brake less. And you might not actually brake or regen when you want to go slower, you might just add less power. If you let off the power at highway speed and coast, the drag slows you down with force X. Now, if traffic is bunching up a bit, you might want to decelerate with a teeny bit more force than X, say X+0.01X. So you have to move your leg over and add 0.01X of braking, then perhaps you braked 0.2X so you move your foot back to the accelerator to add a bit, then perhaps back again if you need to slow a tiny bit more etc. It's very annoying to drive like this. With one-pedal driving, you don't really know if you are adding less power or have started regen. And frankly, why should you care? You just use your depth perception to gauge how you're keeping up with traffic and adjust your foot accordingly. For any given speed, and any vehicle with engine braking, there is a zone on the accelerator that corresponds to a perfect coast. I can nail this on my (now departed) motorcycle, hold steady the right amount of power and I can shift without clutching. One-pedal driving with a fixed amount of regen is better than coast and pedal regen, but variable regen one-pedal driving is better still because it gives you the chance to select the desired braking effect for the occasion, just like you select low gear on an ICE car. Having GPS-based regen level is misunderstanding the concept, it's part of how you control the vehicle. It's like suggesting the wheel should only turn left when the car detects it's in a place where you should turn left. On autopilot the regen can be set at a fixed, highest level, because it can control intentional decel accurately enough to be comfortable anyway.
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Nov 11, 2016 10:31
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I feel like if you're having to explain why adjustable regen is useful, the person you're talking to has not driven a manual transmission car very much in stop and go/slow traffic. I loath an automatic that coasts or unlocks the torque converter too early. I don't want to ride the brake in traffic, it's annoying and brake lights contribute to the traffic jam.
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Nov 11, 2016 15:04
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angryrobots posted:I feel like if you're having to explain why adjustable regen is useful, the person you're talking to has not driven a manual transmission car very much in stop and go/slow traffic. This guy gets it. I am driving my plug in in the mountains of PA near Allentown, and while the regen is glorious because I literally regen down every monster hill, I wish there was a regen pedal so I would not look like an idiot stopping all the time. It's awesome for hills because it's free power, but I look like a jerk.
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Nov 11, 2016 17:42
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Serious question, do all-Electric cars have an OBDII port? I know it is emissions related, but was wondering if it is there for regulatory reasons anyway.
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Nov 11, 2016 19:11
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Mercury Ballistic posted:Serious question, do all-Electric cars have an OBDII port? I know it is emissions related, but was wondering if it is there for regulatory reasons anyway.
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Nov 11, 2016 20:00
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Note that Teslas, at least, expose almost nothing of value through the OBD port, instead putting useful diagnostics out on the Ethernet port in the door sill that gets you sued if you plug anything into it.
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Nov 11, 2016 20:22
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As soon as the handshake is completed, NET SEND cease&desist.txt
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Nov 11, 2016 21:16
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I am extremely bummed to discover that the motor-generators in the Toyota hybrids are covered under the powertrain warranty and NOT the longer hybrid warranty. At least with IGCTs if a serious fault is detected it should be able to stop current flow before it really screws up other components. I hope they did a good job on winding the permanent magnet MGs. (At work we have tons of motors and their failure is pretty rare even with how much they run. I'm talking like 10 to 10,000 horsepower.) I am assuming that for a stator winding failure for a motor that small it would be cheaper to replace it then to rewind it.
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Nov 20, 2016 09:12
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Three-Phase posted:I am extremely bummed to discover that the motor-generators in the Toyota hybrids are covered under the powertrain warranty and NOT the longer hybrid warranty. Friend, at some point you have to realize that there's no crystal ball for buying a car. You just have to accept you can't know everything. Buying a car isn't an investment either. Don't buy a car with the thought of its future worth. Toyotas seem to be good and I'm sure you'll be fine.
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Nov 20, 2016 09:23
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An electric motor should survive a crash fairly well, so the wrecker market for used ones might be good.
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Nov 20, 2016 11:44
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Yeah you're right - I tend to over analyze these things and look for any remotely possible weak points. If shops are going to start doing work with wrecker motors they're going to need to buy analysis equipment - more than a multimeter and a megger.
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Nov 20, 2016 14:32
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I, for one, am loving the EV depreciation. As soon as Leafs drop down in the $6K range I'm buying one. Might even happen this winter they're already in the mid $8K range now around here. Helps that I live and work in yuppy central where EVs are extremely popular. I commute about 50-60 miles a day and if I get it from my favorite Muslim car dealer I can finance it for 0% interest. For $6k I basically can't lose as long as it drives and charges, will spend less on monthly payment than the gas I currently buy.
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Nov 20, 2016 15:19
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Three-Phase posted:Yeah you're right - I tend to over analyze these things and look for any remotely possible weak points. Priii are in terms of modern cars bulletproof. There are Prii in taxi service doing 300K+ miles with little more than the typical battery degradation which is to be expected. If I was going to get a car to be babied, it would be a prii
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Nov 20, 2016 15:21
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Vitamin J posted:I, for one, am loving the EV depreciation. As soon as Leafs drop down in the $6K range I'm buying one. Might even happen this winter they're already in the mid $8K range now around here. Helps that I live and work in yuppy central where EVs are extremely popular. I haven't been keeping up with Leaf prices here, but if everyone's got 250 mile EVs out, I'm hoping that the 80-100 mile ones drop like a rock. I can't charge at home, but I can at work, and that's practically the only thing I use a car for (plus we'd have a second ICE car anyway).
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Nov 20, 2016 15:45
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Ryand-Smith posted:Priii are in terms of modern cars bulletproof. There are Prii in taxi service doing 300K+ miles with little more than the typical battery degradation which is to be expected. If I was going to get a car to be babied, it would be a prii I live in socal and there's more than a few people buying junked prius' that just need the battery terminals or a simple controller cleaned. One fellow is a software engineer who rents them out to Uber drivers for $250 a week. Maybe go the fix it route?
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Nov 20, 2016 16:27
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Vitamin J posted:I, for one, am loving the EV depreciation. As soon as Leafs drop down in the $6K range I'm buying one. Might even happen this winter they're already in the mid $8K range now around here. Helps that I live and work in yuppy central where EVs are extremely popular. I was looking into waiting for the Model Xs to depreciate to where I can afford one, but it looks like I might as well just wait for the Model 3 crossover. And speaking of the Model 3, the next phase of its unveiling should be happening next spring: http://www.businessinsider.com/elon-musk-more-tesla-model-3-details-coming-in-spring-2016-11
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Nov 21, 2016 02:52
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