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Lemming posted:That wasn't my point. I agree that things are going to be apocalyptic. I'm saying that assuming the white House is lost forever is stupid, unless you specifically mean "in nuclear hellfire" in which case yeah probably. I definitely don't think it's lost forever. I think 2020 will be dicey outside of Trump just completely making a fool of himself and/or a massive economic collapse that they can't completely pin on Obama. Oddly enough, I think the longer this takes, the more they're able to pin on Obama since their complete failure of a response won't be evident. That and the poo poo tons of extra voter suppression that will be going into effect in every state they control might keep them in the lead. I don't think the dems are going to do themselves any favors with the circular firing squad that's going on either.
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Nov 10, 2016 19:17
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Fansy posted:Who will Trump nuke first? Hopefully me.
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Nov 10, 2016 19:17
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Deified Data posted:Trying to convince everyone that racism played no role in something in which racism did indeed play a huge role contributes to racism on an institutional scale. That's why you're not convincing anyone. That's also not what I argued, as you would know if you read more than one post. What I argued is that some more people would have voted Democrat if the Dem candidate had a blue collar economic platform.
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Nov 10, 2016 19:18
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A Wizard of Goatse posted:If people really voted for candidates purely as a package of bills and actions with a guy attached then Obama would have lost 2012 in a landslide, campaign promises aren't concrete policy you get any guarantees of they're an assurance that the candidate is aware on some level of your priorities and will attempt to speak for them in office Yeah you're right, Trump voters probably latched onto the nuanced subtext of "LOCK HER UP" vis-a-vis getting the establishment elites out of power nationwide, not the burning desire to have Hillary Clinton physically jailed for an unlitigated crime.
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Nov 10, 2016 19:17
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steinrokkan posted:Sorry, I'm not going to put a one sentence blanket judgement over 60 million people and pretend I'm done with election analysis. lmao. 60 million people supported the exact same guy and exact same rhetoric as the cross-section of them that attended all of his rallies did. Lots of confederate flags, lots of freaking out about the Mexicans and the Jews destroying our culture, death threats against protesters or "protesters" (read: black people) who showed up to the thing, constant chanting calls to have his political opponent imprisoned for charges that the DoJ cleared her of. 60 million people voted for that, even if they have convinced themselves that they didn't.
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Nov 10, 2016 19:18
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We are definitely going to war with Iran. Maybe not troops but airstrikes at minimum.
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Nov 10, 2016 19:19
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Fansy posted:Who will Trump nuke first? The middle east after the first successful terrorist attack. Which while inquiring about doing my job overseas seems to be the only real option, so I won't be going that route.
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Nov 10, 2016 19:19
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Sharkopath posted:Economics and courting white voters is all that matters now, We're no longer needed and our issues aren't wanted I guess. Well why shouldn't economics matter now?
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Nov 10, 2016 19:18
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Looks like we're going to need a bigger basket for all these deplorables.
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Nov 10, 2016 19:18
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PKJC posted:Nice shitpost friend, you do not know my reasons for wanting to stay out of that type of environment. Or are you saying I should drop my career and go into HR at some large company and attempt to change it from within? Because I have basically none of the relevant training or qualification to do work in mediation or legal stuff. I didn't get to chose my employer and almost no one in my region does. I'm the workplace whipping boy in a training position denied any training and told to be happy not to be unemployed. When other workers report me to management for refusal to violate safe practices as they do, I am moved out of the way to make the issue disappear. I have been officially reprimanded for internally pointing out in-house safety standards that are hilariously incorrect and dangerous lest an auditor find out. And this is the best, least stressful, bullshit-ridden job I've ever held. Management and HR advice always involves a quote about water off a duck's back. Being able to choose a company with an agreeable workforce is, in fact, a privilege. And not one shared by most of the population. gently caress you.
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Nov 10, 2016 19:20
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Deified Data posted:Trying to convince everyone that racism played no role in something in which racism did indeed play a huge role contributes to racism on an institutional scale. That's why you're not convincing anyone. I think the question is less whether racism played a role in the election (it unequivocally did), but more that attempting to build a campaign on the opposing party's prejudices without floating a suitable carrot on your own side is a losing proposition. We're not going to get the votes we need in 2020 simply under the banner of fighting prejudice, we need to offer a personal incentive for these people to come out to the polls.
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Nov 10, 2016 19:19
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Pedro De Heredia posted:They'll blame it on Obama, and I'm sure many people will fervently believe it's Obama's fault. But most people will just punish the party in power, and it will be the Republicans. Yeah the idea that the country will vote Republican forever isn't really true, especially when Trump only won because of Hillary making GBS threads the bed. The DNC has had this coming for a while with the abandonment of labor. The fact that they thought "the Republicans are real bad guys" was going to give them the presidency forever was super arrogant. The Democrats forgot they needed a reason to get people to vote FOR them and not against the other guy.
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Nov 10, 2016 19:21
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steinrokkan posted:gently caress off, post one example of anything racist I posted in any of the many election threads, you rear end in a top hat. Every single post you have made that amounts to "No actually white people are fine, the real problem is..." is racist as gently caress.
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Nov 10, 2016 19:21
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steinrokkan posted:That's also not what I argued, as you would know if you read more than one post. What I argued is that some more people would have voted Democrat if the Dem candidate had a blue collar economic platform. she did you dumb poo poo
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Nov 10, 2016 19:20
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Sharkopath posted:Economics and courting white voters is all that matters now, We're no longer needed and our issues aren't wanted I guess. It's a real shame that instead of coming together to reassure minorities and poc we will instead argue the need to overlook racism
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Nov 10, 2016 19:21
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Squashing Machine posted:I think the question is less whether racism played a role in the election (it unequivocally did), but more that attempting to build a campaign on the opposing party's prejudices without floating a suitable carrot on your own side is a losing proposition. We're not going to get the votes we need in 2020 simply under the banner of fighting prejudice, we need to offer a personal incentive for these people to come out to the polls. Yes, but liberals itt are afraid that giving people a positive incentive not to act as bigots would somehow made them compromise their values?
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Nov 10, 2016 19:22
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steinrokkan posted:I'm sorry you believe literally everybody is motivated entirely by spite. Donald loving Trump is now the president of the United States.
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Nov 10, 2016 19:22
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Terrific Accident posted:Looks like we're going to need a bigger basket for all these deplorables. Indeed.
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Nov 10, 2016 19:22
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PKJC posted:^ gently caress did fishmech permatoxx? Goddamnit now where will I find that kind of laser focus pedantry Well poo poo, now the forums will never be the same. Is there a list of all the people who perma toxxed? I'm worried I might have to lurk less if I want D&D to remain reasonable. 
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Nov 10, 2016 19:22
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When Trump starts deporting immigrants, institutes his Muslim bans, goes to war with another country and calls the enemy some ethnic slur, or supports police that kill unarmed black people, do we get to call his supporters racist or is that still too mean since they REALLY care about economics?Raenir Salazar posted:Well poo poo, now the forums will never be the same. I guess he really wasn't the world's smartest boy after all 
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Nov 10, 2016 19:23
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Fansy posted:Who will Trump nuke first? China or the ME.
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Nov 10, 2016 19:23
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Crowsbeak posted:Well why shouldn't economics matter now? It's a ref to the idea that keeps popping up in these post elections threads that the election was lost because the DNC platform was entirely identity politics and that obviously alienated all white people so the lesson we should learn is to abandon them all together and focus mainly on issues that effect the rural and rust belt. Instead of continuing both economic and social reform planks and just swinging more left and trying to fire up youth enthusiasm which seems the smarter choice to me, I mean florida won't be in play without a minority vote. That's what keeps it a swing state.
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Nov 10, 2016 19:24
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Butch Cassidy posted:I didn't get to chose my employer and almost no one in my region does. I'm the workplace whipping boy in a training position denied any training and told to be happy not to be unemployed. When other workers report me to management for refusal to violate safe practices as they do, I am moved out of the way to make the issue disappear. I have been officially reprimanded for internally pointing out in-house safety standards that are hilariously incorrect and dangerous lest an auditor find out. And this is the best, least stressful, bullshit-ridden job I've ever held. Management and HR advice always involves a quote about water off a duck's back. Those are all pretty infuriating things even just to hear about, however my initial post on the subject was not some glib "just go to HR lol" it was a suggestion to do so if it's reasonable. I thought maybe in other parts of the nation HR did anything helpful for workers at all but now I know that's not the case.
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Nov 10, 2016 19:23
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Submarine Sandpaper posted:she did you dumb poo poo why don't people listen when I, Bernie Madoff, tell them about my radical proposed anti-securities fraud policies? Radish posted:When Trump starts deporting immigrants, institutes his Muslim bans, goes to war with another country and calls the enemy some ethnic slur, or supports police that kill unarmed black people, do we get to call his supporters racist or is that still too mean since they REALLY care about economics? you can be ineffectual whenever you feel like it, I believe in you
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Nov 10, 2016 19:24
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Submarine Sandpaper posted:she did you dumb poo poo To be honest she didn't really make a great show of it, and certainly didn't sound very believable.
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Nov 10, 2016 19:25
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steinrokkan posted:Yes, but liberals itt are afraid that giving people a positive incentive not to act as bigots would somehow made them compromise their values? Yeah no we know all about your loving values
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Nov 10, 2016 19:24
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Jill Steins voters had no effect on the election, but I do think she personally was very damaging to Clinton. She was constantly attacking her as more dangerous than Trump and I think influenced a lot of people who didn't want to waste their vote on a third party to stay home. She painted Clinton as completely unacceptable and I think her words influenced a lot more people than who voted for her.
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Nov 10, 2016 19:25
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Squashing Machine posted:I think the question is less whether racism played a role in the election (it unequivocally did), but more that attempting to build a campaign on the opposing party's prejudices without floating a suitable carrot on your own side is a losing proposition. We're not going to get the votes we need in 2020 simply under the banner of fighting prejudice, we need to offer a personal incentive for these people to come out to the polls. I agree. I had come to terms with voting for Clinton but I see no reason to apologize for her failings at this juncture. It was her election to lose and she deftly snatched defeat from the jaws of victory. Kinda hope this thread can arrive at the compromise that a good candidate can promise a positive economic outlook for working class whites and advocate for minority interests simultaneously. The flakes we lose on either side were always disposable anyways.
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Nov 10, 2016 19:26
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It turns out a lot of self professed progressives actually have zero progressive values.
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Nov 10, 2016 19:27
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Fansy posted:Who will Trump nuke first? Hopefully CNN by writing laws that say they have to do real journalism or have HUGE BANNERS SAYING HEY THIS IS NOT REAL ONLY RUMOR.
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Nov 10, 2016 19:26
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Deified Data posted:I agree. I had come to terms with voting for Clinton but I see no reason to apologize for her failings at this juncture. It was her election to lose and she deftly snatched defeat from the jaws of victory. People not ok with racism: disposable
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Nov 10, 2016 19:26
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Sharkopath posted:It's a ref to the idea that keeps popping up in these post elections threads that the election was lost because the DNC platform was entirely identity politics and that obviously alienated all white people so the lesson we should learn is to abandon them all together and focus mainly on issues that effect the rural and rust belt. Pretty much this. Abandoning social stuff is going to lose minorities anyway. The idea that there's a bunch of white people that want to vote Democrat but don't because "my white feelings  " is BS. The silent majority wasn't even real since Trump did lovely. The silent majority is apparently people dissatisfied with Neoliberalism which may or may not be racist.
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Nov 10, 2016 19:27
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Squashing Machine posted:I think the question is less whether racism played a role in the election (it unequivocally did), but more that attempting to build a campaign on the opposing party's prejudices without floating a suitable carrot on your own side is a losing proposition. We're not going to get the votes we need in 2020 simply under the banner of fighting prejudice, we need to offer a personal incentive for these people to come out to the polls. No we should just scream that everyone against us is racist and misogynist. Deified Data posted:I agree. I had come to terms with voting for Clinton but I see no reason to apologize for her failings at this juncture. It was her election to lose and she deftly snatched defeat from the jaws of victory. Lessail posted:Yeah no we know all about your loving values Theey're better then yours? Crowsbeak fucked around with this message at 19:32 on Nov 10, 2016 |
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Nov 10, 2016 19:28
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Flowers For Algeria posted:To be honest she didn't really make a great show of it, and certainly didn't sound very believable. every single radio ad in Ohio for weeks was about an economic stimulus "new deal" v trump's lack of anything. Economic anxiety is just a dog whistle.
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Nov 10, 2016 19:28
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The Shortest Path posted:Every single post you have made that amounts to "No actually white people are fine, the real problem is..." is racist as gently caress. Well, I believe many people can be easily salvaged from the conservative block, and that you don't even need to sacrifice any social justice items. In fact I believe that a strong economic platform promoted by a strong candidate (Hillary was neither, effectively) would put more whites aboard a platform that simultaneously involved lots of more audacious minority protection policies, and I made literally dozens posts about how the Democrats need to sort out their messaging to make their two goals of economic and social justice work out at the same time, but I see that at the time of highly strung emotions I may have been quite combative and aggressive in getting that across because I am extremely annoyed. steinrokkan fucked around with this message at 19:29 on Nov 10, 2016 |
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Nov 10, 2016 19:27
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Trump calls Obama 'a very good man' after historic White House meetingquote:Trump thanked Obama for the meeting which he said had originally been scheduled for 10 minutes and said it could have gone on much longer.
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Nov 10, 2016 19:28
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greatn posted:Jill Steins voters had no effect on the election, but I do think she personally was very damaging to Clinton. She was constantly attacking her as more dangerous than Trump and I think influenced a lot of people who didn't want to waste their vote on a third party to stay home. She painted Clinton as completely unacceptable and I think her words influenced a lot more people than who voted for her. Yup, all those millions that Jill Stein put into attack ads against Hillary cost Hillary the election.
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Nov 10, 2016 19:28
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OlmanRiver posted:Hopefully CNN by writing laws that say they have to do real journalism or have HUGE BANNERS SAYING HEY THIS IS NOT REAL ONLY RUMOR. No, he wants CNN to keep doing what they're doing. Real journalism would be the thing he files a bad-faith defamation suit over.
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Nov 10, 2016 19:29
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"He's one of the good ones"
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Nov 10, 2016 19:29
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Lessail posted:People not ok with racism: disposable Reread - I don't think racists should be catered to in any way, shape, or form. Those make up the majority of the "disposables" in that scenario. I don't think the Dems would lose any significant amount of people for promising a positive economic future for the working class. Racists wouldn't bite but I said we don't need them.
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Nov 10, 2016 19:31
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