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JawKnee posted:I think lies won the day. Hillary went around robbing the working man while saying 'You're a piece of poo poo sexist racist monster if you don't vote for me! Everything all your fault!' Trump went around robbing the working man while saying 'I want to make things better for you, join me and we'll make America great again! Everything is all their fault!' It's not surprising who was more able to get the working man to turn a blind eye to their actions and gain their vote.
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Nov 10, 2016 19:12
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Albino Squirrel posted:A reminder, as ever, that the NDP was founded in large part by farmers. Also a reminder that those farmers saw their future riding on the blue collar and white collar workers and did everything they could to make them feel included, not bite the hand that feeds them.
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Nov 10, 2016 19:15
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EvilJoven posted:Also the so often seen demonized in this thread, gun owning hunting aficionados are quite often the ones spearheading the conservation of wetlands, inland waters, and forests. Those attributes are not really exclusive, they can be pro conservation while still being racists*. How do you plan to target them politically if they're currently voting based on their love of guns or dislike for immigrants, rather than their love for the environment? *Anecdotally, some of my extended family in rural Ontario could be placed in this category.
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Nov 10, 2016 19:15
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Furnaceface posted:Also a reminder that those farmers saw their future riding on the blue collar and white collar workers and did everything they could to make them feel included, not bite the hand that feeds them. And yet farmers now seem against the idea of forming a union even when it's blatantly in their own interests (there were a lot of idiots trumpeting about the death of the Wheat Board).
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Nov 10, 2016 19:16
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Jesus Christ I came in here to ask a question about Express Entry and moving to Canada but even ya'll are talking about Trump I can't escape him, he's everywhere (Also sorry we Americans are probably going to destroy the world for real this time. Will you take some oil pipeline hush money in recompense?)
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Nov 10, 2016 19:19
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Yeah, one border is not enough to put between me and fascism, ideally. I like at least one ocean.
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Nov 10, 2016 19:21
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disjoe posted:Jesus Christ I came in here to ask a question about Express Entry and moving to Canada but even ya'll are talking about Trump We'll take that in addition to Bryan Cranston
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Nov 10, 2016 19:21
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infernal machines posted:Those attributes are not really exclusive, they can be pro conservation while still being racists*. How do you plan to target them politically if they're currently voting based on their love of guns or dislike for immigrants, rather than their love for the environment? You target them by inviting them to join your cause in the name of solidarity regarding environmentalism while working to show that their racism is unwarranted. Most will discard it. Humans have always been very tolerant and inclusive to people within their communal circle while being extremely xenophobic of those outside of it.
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Nov 10, 2016 19:21
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PT6A posted:Yeah, one border is not enough to put between me and fascism, ideally. I like at least one ocean. worked out for us last time I guess
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Nov 10, 2016 19:22
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TheKingofSprings posted:We'll take that in addition to Bryan Cranston You have to keep Lena Dunham though, or no deal.
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Nov 10, 2016 19:23
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McGavin posted:You have to keep Lena Dunham though, or no deal. She's a child molester by her own admission, I think she would be ruled inadmissible to Canada. JawKnee posted:worked out for us last time I guess Yeah, I'm thinking Spain or Germany this time. Most countries are smart enough to stay the gently caress away from fascism once they deal with it the first time (or at least I sure hope they are).
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Nov 10, 2016 19:23
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disjoe posted:Jesus Christ I came in here to ask a question about Express Entry and moving to Canada but even ya'll are talking about Trump Canada and the USA are still the largest trading partners in the world and our border is I think still the largest border with the most traffic crossing it daily. Trump and the Republicans can seriously gently caress our poo poo up here, both in terms of policy and in how their political machine affects the same group of people here that got them in power down there.
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Nov 10, 2016 19:26
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Furnaceface posted:Canada and the USA are still the largest trading partners in the world and our border is I think still the largest border with the most traffic crossing it daily. Trump and the Republicans can seriously gently caress our poo poo up here, both in terms of policy and in how their political machine affects the same group of people here that got them in power down there. Yeah I know, I was just being a jackass. Nobody here thinks about how much U.S. politics effects the rest of the world. Part of the reason I'm itching to get out of the U.S. is to get some perspective. TheKingofSprings posted:We'll take that in addition to Bryan Cranston Deal on the condition you begin bilateral talks with Japan to make Shin Godzilla 2 with Cranston in it
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Nov 10, 2016 19:31
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EvilJoven posted:Hillary went around robbing the working man while saying 'You're a piece of poo poo sexist racist monster if you don't vote for me! I must have missed that particular campaign speech. Talking to a few voters from the rust belt got me the same message each time  'why did you vote for Trump and not Hillary?'  'Because I don't like what's happening in my community, all the job losses to NAFTA, people out of work' 'But Trump has clearly benefited a very great deal from these things, why do you think he'll work against them?' 'Because he said he would, and also I don't trust the wife of the guy who implemented NAFTA' 'Okay, putting aside that CUFTA predated NAFTA and came during a Republican government, and that the groundwork for NAFTA was laid during those same governments, and that Hillary is not, in fact, Bill - Trump has clearly lied about other things he's going to do (building a coast-to-coast wall on the Mexican border comes to mind) that you surely can't believe, and exit polls seem to indicate that a majority of voters don't find him trustworthy, and again - this is not in his best interests as a billionaire businessman - why would he do anything to curtail NAFTA - and how would that bring manufacturing jobs back to where you are?' 'I've put in enough research to know that he will' 'Could I see some of it?' 'I don't have time for this'Obviously this is anecdotal and doesn't cover everyone - hell I've barely talked to three or four such people, but what I really haven't heard even a bit of for justification is 'I don't like being called names'. JawKnee fucked around with this message at 19:32 on Nov 10, 2016 |
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Nov 10, 2016 19:30
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Canada is so culturally close to America in a lot of ways that we have found it needful to enact laws to keep what little uniqueness we have from being completely overshadowed by all things American.
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Nov 10, 2016 19:30
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EvilJoven posted:You target them by inviting them to join your cause in the name of solidarity regarding environmentalism while working to show that their racism is unwarranted. Most will discard it. Humans have always been very tolerant and inclusive to people within their communal circle while being extremely xenophobic of those outside of it. But your cause also includes things like gun control and support for refuges and increased immigration. Do you just downplay those elements and hope they ignore them, or do you "moderate" them to make your cause more palatable? PT6A posted:Yeah, one border is not enough to put between me and fascism, ideally. I like at least one ocean. I have bad news for you...
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Nov 10, 2016 19:32
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EvilJoven posted:Hillary went around robbing the working man while saying 'You're a piece of poo poo sexist racist monster if you don't vote for me! Everything all your fault!' Hillary never said that though 
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Nov 10, 2016 19:37
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PT6A posted:She's a child molester by her own admission, I think she would be ruled inadmissible to Canada. She was playing with her sister when she was like 6. Kids explore each other's bodies all the time, it's called "playing doctor" normally and I bet you most of this thread did it too. It's completely acceptable, normal behavior for children.
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Nov 10, 2016 19:37
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DariusLikewise posted:Hillary never said that though No you see there's the bizarre assumption that if you support and intend to vote for a candidate whose entire campaign platform is based on an explicitly racist message, and repeatedly makes explicitly racist comments to the press and public, and is openly supported by Klansman, that you too might be a racist. Now obviously that's unfair.
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Nov 10, 2016 19:48
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infernal machines posted:But your cause also includes things like gun control and support for refuges and increased immigration. Do you just downplay those elements and hope they ignore them, or do you "moderate" them to make your cause more palatable? Well, for one, Canadian gun laws as currently written pose no threat to the population so maybe the left needs to stop worrying about legal firearms and firearms owners. You want to court the gun owning public? Quit lumping them and the 10/22 or SKS they use to shoot at pop cans in the back 40 with some guy holding up a 7/11 with a Glock and trying to make it harder for him to go shoot cans and clays and deer and ducks. As for the refugees and immigrants. Remind them that these are people with mostly the same hopes and dreams and priorities as them and will expand their community to combat the right in their efforts to get people on their side by stirring up their fears about a different community encroaching on their space. I think that's what Zizek is getting at when he says that in some ways PC culture is a form of institutionalized racism. It highlights at every opportunity just how different we all are and actively resists allowing two groups of people to eventually come together and form any sort of homogeneity.
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Nov 10, 2016 19:48
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infernal machines posted:No you see there's the bizarre assumption that if you support and intend to vote for a candidate whose entire campaign platform is based on an explicitly racist message, and repeatedly makes explicitly racist comments to the press and public, and is openly supported by Klansman, that you too might be a racist. No, but you see, I don't agree with his sexist or racist comments. I'm not racist, I have black friends. But I agree with his stance on jobs and NAFTA, so it's totally okay to overlook the other part and waggle a stern finger if he does put in place racist and sexist measures. vvvvv 
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Nov 10, 2016 19:54
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"If" Tee hee.
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Nov 10, 2016 19:54
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infernal machines posted:No you see there's the bizarre assumption that if you support and intend to vote for a candidate whose entire campaign platform is based on an explicitly racist message, and repeatedly makes explicitly racist comments to the press and public, and is openly supported by Klansman, that you too might be a racist. He did have some policies people would agree with such as protectionism or ending legal political corruption (lobbying). Lots of party card holders would support whomever ran as well. What's unfair is how supposed progressives are quick to brand his supporters racist though. Especially ones that stand with Muslims against the people who brand them as terrorists.
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Nov 10, 2016 19:56
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"There's a special place in hell for women who don't help each other' was the closing remark in a speech Madeleine Albright gave during a Clinton rally earlier this year. Don't tell me that there wasn't a prevailing 'if you aren't with me you're some sort of bigot' sentiment coming from the HRC campaign.
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Nov 10, 2016 20:03
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Risky Bisquick posted:He did have some policies people would agree with such as protectionism or ending legal political corruption (lobbying). Lots of party card holders would support whomever ran as well. His entire run for president was based on demonizing the others, and 99% of the time the others were POC/LGBTQ/non-Christians. Even his "agreeable policies" were based on this. Ignorance shouldnt allow people to get away with being racist. Thats why systemic racism is still a thing in TYOOL2016.
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Nov 10, 2016 20:03
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EvilJoven posted:"There's a special place in hell for women who don't help each other' was the closing remark in a speech Madeleine Albright gave during a Clinton rally earlier this year. You sure you're not misinterpreting that statement?
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Nov 10, 2016 20:05
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EvilJoven posted:"There's a special place in hell for women who don't help each other' was the closing remark in a speech Madeleine Albright gave during a Clinton rally earlier this year. It was repeatedly quite frequently that supporting Bernie Sanders over Hillary Clinton meant that you were a misogynist. I am not convinced that Sanders would have defeated Trump in the general election, but I can say that it was unfair to have this position. Clinton wasn't the right candidate for America's first female president and it was demonstrated on Tuesday.
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Nov 10, 2016 20:06
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Furnaceface posted:His entire run for president was based on demonizing the others Unfortunately, so was hers.
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Nov 10, 2016 20:09
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TheKingofSprings posted:I also think that you can expect at least a couple of news articles about a tractor driving itself 5 miles down a highway accidentally due to some kind of engineering flaws or failures showing themselves (if I was to guess at a possibility something like dust blocking the camera view after a few hours of operation is a definite possibility). I certainly won't discount it, only because the regulatory environment is really weak, and they won't be required to get the safety certifications something like autonomous cars will. But at the same time, they're huge loving machines that move relatively slowly, and there's not all that many of them, so regular people should be avoid them (though this sure doesn't stop people from getting hit by trains, so who the hell knows). On the other hand, the detection systems are really impressive. The guys doing the guidance system for that cabless tractor have a test track loop with self-driving cars equipped with the same lidar, camera, and GNSS setups, and they're really impressive. You can go put a mannequin on the track, and they'll stop, reverse away until they close the loop and come back to him, stop, drive forward again, etc. Last time I was there they had them manoeuvring around a field of random assorted obstacles.
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Nov 10, 2016 20:08
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Yes, it's like a lava lamp.
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The BC Teachers' Federation has won its case against the province regarding class size and composition. The Supreme Court of Canada handed down a "surprise" verbal ruling from the bench only a few hours after a hearing into the case began this morning. The teachers were expecting the case to be dragged out for months, so this is a big win for public education in BC and all of Canada.
Juul-Whip fucked around with this message at 20:11 on Nov 10, 2016 |
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Nov 10, 2016 20:08
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OSI bean dip posted:I am not convinced that Sanders would have defeated Trump in the general election I think it would definitely have changed the game in the rust-belt, but maybe lost the Dems in other areas, who can say?
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Nov 10, 2016 20:10
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THC posted:The BC Teachers' Federation has won its case against the province regarding class size and composition. The Supreme Court of Canada handed down a "surprise" verbal ruling from the bench only a few hours after a hearing into the case began this morning. countdown to the BCLibs ignoring this ruling too
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Nov 10, 2016 20:11
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OSI bean dip posted:It was repeatedly quite frequently that supporting Bernie Sanders over Hillary Clinton meant that you were a misogynist. I am not convinced that Sanders would have defeated Trump in the general election, but I can say that it was unfair to have this position. Clinton wasn't the right candidate for America's first female president and it was demonstrated on Tuesday. Well, there's more to it than that. What Albright was referring to was the huge groups of young, diverse women turning out for Sanders instead of Clinton. It was actually a second wave versus third wave feminism fight - Clinton represented progress for white, upper-class women, even if that reduced other women to the subaltern; while Sanders was pushing for progress for all women, even though it would result in less power for a specific group of women. It wasn't about misogyny - it was the time honoured position in women's movements of white women expecting other women, particularly women of colour, to perform uncompensated labour to lift them up (with nothing but promises that the women of colour would receive something in the end.)
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Nov 10, 2016 20:12
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Sanders was also the most socially progressive of the two DNC finalists and even put himself in harms way on the side of the civil rights movement in the 60s and yet if you supported Sanders you were on the wrong side of the progressive movement for supporting a smelly old man. Also he would have won.
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Nov 10, 2016 20:14
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PittTheElder posted:I certainly won't discount it, only because the regulatory environment is really weak, and they won't be required to get the safety certifications something like autonomous cars will. But at the same time, they're huge loving machines that move relatively slowly, and there's not all that many of them, so regular people should be avoid them (though this sure doesn't stop people from getting hit by trains, so who the hell knows). The big difference to me is that tractors can regularly be expected to pass across a highway or other road system that a train never could and this can happen late at night when visibility is low and whatever drivers are out there may not be at their most alert. I'm by no means saying this could result in more than a couple of accidents but as a percent that's infinitely more than the target everyone should be aiming for. Any word yet on solar powered tractors?
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Nov 10, 2016 20:14
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Sanders would've done better hands down. Hillary had too many skeletons in the closet and she was just as unagreeable as Trump personality wise. Her 'show' that she was all about positive everything is the exact opposite of her personality and her political ambition that put her in a race to the presidency. Nothing about how she rose up politically points to her being this great person, nor the emails that were leaked if you believe they weren't tampered with. Or you know we can dumb it down for progressives that think because she is a woman it was her 'turn' to break the glass ceiling. ed: don't forget women sanders supporters are traitors to the feminist movement bs. PROGRESSIVE THOUGHTS ITT Furnaceface posted:His entire run for president was based on demonizing the others, and 99% of the time the others were POC/LGBTQ/non-Christians. Even his "agreeable policies" were based on this. You can't blanket every Trump supporter as a racist. I will go as far as some are xenophobic, but using racist is just a loaded word here. Risky Bisquick fucked around with this message at 20:22 on Nov 10, 2016 |
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Nov 10, 2016 20:19
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flakeloaf posted:Unfortunately, so was hers. I guess this is fair enough. I do feel like calling racists on their bullshit is fair game, though I guess how you go about doing so makes a huge difference. I dont think Sanders would have fared much better this election, but his message was much more humanizing at least. e: Risky Bisquick posted:You can't blanket every Trump supporter as a racist. I will go as far as some are xenophobic, but using racist is just a loaded word here. The racism was always up front. Choosing to ignore it doesnt magically absolve you of participating in it. Furnaceface fucked around with this message at 20:23 on Nov 10, 2016 |
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Nov 10, 2016 20:19
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Risky Bisquick posted:What's unfair is how supposed progressives are quick to brand his supporters racist though. Especially ones that stand with Muslims against the people who brand them as terrorists. Yes, I'm not racist, I'm just supporting a man who is without question a racist promising to enact racist policies that will definitely have negative effects on people who are not like me. While we're on the subject, a certain German chancellor has a lot of good ideas, you know. Risky Bisquick posted:You can't blanket every Trump supporter as a racist. I will go as far as some are xenophobic, but using racist is just a loaded word here. No, you really can. His entire campaign and platform from top to bottom was explicitly racist, you cannot, knowing that, support him without supporting racism, which would make you a racist. infernal machines fucked around with this message at 20:27 on Nov 10, 2016 |
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Nov 10, 2016 20:24
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Furnaceface posted:I dont think Sanders would have fared much better this election, but his message was much more humanizing at least. Take a look at that voting graph I posted up thread a bit - he literally could not have done worse.
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Nov 10, 2016 20:25
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Risky Bisquick posted:He did have some policies people would agree with such as protectionism or ending legal political corruption (lobbying). Lots of party card holders would support whomever ran as well. Exactly. Such an unfair characterization of Trump supporters.
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Nov 10, 2016 20:29
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