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Squashing Machine posted:This is insane doomsaying, extraordinarily anti-liberal, and only viable because it's emotionally expedient. Everyone start claiming your bell towers now, it's going to get crowded. I'm not a liberal. This is actually a scenario where the second amendment is actually justified, because there is going to be a rise of hate crimes and police brutality, already bad, is going to get worse. The Black Panthers were a necessary part of the civil rights movement because literally nobody else gave a gently caress about black people, so it was up to themselves to defend themselves from unjustified, unprovoked violence. They did this really well, and given the political climate that now exists, and the downhill slope it's going to go down, I would encourage all minorities to get strapped and prepare to defend what is theirs because pretty soon nobody else is going to do it for them.
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Nov 10, 2016 19:54
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Scent of Worf posted:Lmao at the white liberal telling us not to prepare ourselves to defend against possible white supremacists Right. Hey black people, even though white people have been willing to visit violence upon you without warning since the inception of the country, you shouldn't do poo poo to protect yourselves, or you're just as bad. Literally the "calling them racists is as bad as being racist" except with our lives. White liberals, indeed. Squashing Machine posted:Because it's just good common sense? I find it funny that a common party stance of full gun control is thrown under the paranoia bus the moment we feel threatened. It's almost like it wasn't really a value at all! Sorta like how white progressives valued quiet over justice. So here we are. You failed to confront the racists in your midst and now you want to tut-tut minorities for wanting to protect themselves from your lovely family members that you wouldn't condemn. gently caress outta here.
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Nov 10, 2016 19:56
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Already had two insane conservatives come into my store to pick fights with female and/or dark skinned employees. If anybody wants to know what to get me for Christmas the answer is whiskey. I recognize that these people are just crazy and not necessarily representative of all Trump supporters but the difference is pretty academic to the people getting harassed.
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Nov 10, 2016 19:56
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sit on my Facebook posted:The white supremacists can't and shouldn't be helped. gently caress 'em. However, regardless of whether you want to admit it or not, white supremacists are not the reason Trump is president, he's president in spite of them. The democrats have to become the American Labour party if they want to survive in any capacity beyond minority opposition. We can build a party that's racially inclusive, respects women, and genuinely advocates for the working class. These things are not mutually exclusive. Slapfighting about who's last racist is not going to help anything. Let's talk about organizing or communities instead maybe? Be the change you wanna see? There is going to be some trouble with getting a group that thinks anything that helps minorities actively harms them to get on board with things that help minorities. This has always been a problem facing the democratic party. Also we saw this election how willing many democrats are to throw minorities under the bus.
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Nov 10, 2016 19:56
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steinrokkan posted:Sarah Palin will have an email gate two weeks into her tenure. It will be fun. No she won't. You'd have to investigate first and the Republicans aren't going to investigate anyone on their side over the next 4 years.
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Nov 10, 2016 19:57
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VH4Ever posted:This is the one interesting wrinkle about all this. He's just so easily convinced to change course by an audience, by a charismatic person, etc. Part of what makes him so unpredictable, potentially for good and for bad. I've been thinking about that too. The guy's an rear end in a top hat who openly invited bigotry into his campaign, but I get the impression he wouldn't be as much of a wanna-be fascist without those people whispering in his ear.
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Nov 10, 2016 19:57
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Admiral Ray posted:Why is it insane? Please, explain what you think will happen to minorities in the next 4 years that makes worrying about oppression insane. Trump and probably the GOP in general would love to expand "Stop and Frisk" and also we'll probably just see continued expansion of the privatized prison industry. We'll probably see some trumped-up (lol) program put into place like the War on Drugs, that's more or less designed to gently caress up black people and liberals. Everybody publically associated with BLM is definitely going on a no-fly list. That's not including the vigilantism. In yesterday alone, there was a huge spike in muslim women being assaulted for their hijabs. And also the KKK rally, and the swastika graffiti, and so on.
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Nov 10, 2016 19:58
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Rush Limbo posted:I'm not a liberal. This is actually a scenario where the second amendment is actually justified, because there is going to be a rise of hate crimes and police brutality, already bad, is going to get worse. Oh word? The long term answer to police brutality and hate crime is to uh, shoot them?
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Nov 10, 2016 19:58
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negromancer posted:Sorta like how white progressives valued quiet over justice. Saying that you're going to protect yourself against oppression with a gun is just as insane as someone saying that the solution to mass shootings is more "good guys with guns." Encouraging black people to buy guns will only result in more dead black people, and not at the hands of oppressors.
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Nov 10, 2016 19:58
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chumbler posted:There is going to be some trouble with getting a group that thinks anything that helps minorities actively harms them to get on board with things that help minorities. This has always been a problem facing the democratic party. This. It needs to not be understated how much these people are willing to poo poo on their own plates if it means making brown people eat it too. That's pretty much the entire history of the post-slavery USA.
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Nov 10, 2016 19:58
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Squashing Machine posted:Surely, more guns will save us. The future I want is where I get into several armed standoffs on my way to, at, and from the Trader Joes Preaching pacifism against fascism is essentially collaboration. Or is that not true anymore because  he won the vote now.Like it's not even about armed revolution at this point it's about basic self defense against emboldened thugs. You sincerely think cops are going to help? They eat that poo poo up.
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Nov 10, 2016 19:59
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Squashing Machine posted:Saying that you're going to protect yourself against oppression with a gun is just as insane as someone saying that the solution to mass shootings is more "good guys with guns." Encouraging black people to buy guns will only result in more dead black people, and not at the hands of oppressors. So I should just allow myself to be lynched to pass some sort of white progressive purity test? gently caress that and gently caress you. Real loving easy to sit there and talk dumb poo poo when the crosses aren't going to be burnt into your lawn.
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Nov 10, 2016 20:01
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Tatsuta Age posted:Oh word? The long term answer to police brutality and hate crime is to uh, shoot them? There is an argument - and I'm honestly torn, I don't know for sure - that the reason we have the 2nd is because the people are supposed to be a latent army, ready to rise up against a state-sanctioned oppositional force at a moment's notice. And I certainly understand that fear. I mean hell this thought exercise is reality for PoC. If you don't buy a gun, the police can just straight up harass you. If you do, there's a good chance they'll just shoot you. So what do you do? EDIT: Guns to protect yourself from non-police racists is actually not a terrible idea.
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Nov 10, 2016 20:00
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^ there is also a good chance they'll shoot you if you're black and do not have a gun, or indeed anything that could be misconstrued as a weapon at allSquashing Machine posted:Saying that you're going to protect yourself against oppression with a gun is just as insane as someone saying that the solution to mass shootings is more "good guys with guns." Encouraging black people to buy guns will only result in more dead black people, and not at the hands of oppressors. Tamir Rice would still be alive today if only he weren't waving that loaded gun around.
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Nov 10, 2016 20:00
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http://www.mprnews.org/story/2016/11/10/sanders-decries-working-class-vote-for-trump Bernie is backing Keith Ellison, a muslim to be DNC chair. Please god let this happen, we need a good old fashioned planting of the flag in the face of racist fucks.
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Nov 10, 2016 20:00
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Tatsuta Age posted:Oh word? The long term answer to police brutality and hate crime is to uh, shoot them? Or die yeah, things can get that dark and we know that because they have been that dark before.
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Nov 10, 2016 20:00
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Agnosticnixie posted:Preaching pacifism against fascism is essentially collaboration. You're fine with violence now because you feel like you're on the back foot. Normalizing violence does nothing. You're essentially advocating for a left-wing Bundy gang.
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Nov 10, 2016 20:00
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chumbler posted:There is going to be some trouble with getting a group that thinks anything that helps minorities actively harms them to get on board with things that help minorities. This has always been a problem facing the democratic party. The key is to get the slim margin needed to get a head start on policies. When people see that things are getting better for them, and that the well-being of minorities is in no way in the way of that, it will be easier to reform them. But that would require an effective Dem administration first.
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Nov 10, 2016 20:01
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Squashing Machine posted:You're fine with violence now because you feel like you're on the back foot. Normalizing violence does nothing. You're essentially advocating for a left-wing Bundy gang. Oh they could be advocating for something like the Black Panthers.
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Nov 10, 2016 20:01
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The Shortest Path posted:This. It needs to not be understated how much these people are willing to poo poo on their own plates if it means making brown people eat it too. That's pretty much the entire history of the post-slavery USA. I think one of the problems a lot of posters have in this thread is reconciling the idea that "Trump voters are racist bigots who voted to hold onto whatever shred of white privilege they feel they still have" isn't mutually exclusive from "Trump's victory was possible for economic reasons." The point is completely academic and meaningless if you're part of a group that's under threat because close to half of this country is full of white supremacist shitheads, but it's relevant if you're talking about where the Democratic party goes from here. I have no idea what the solution is, though.
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Nov 10, 2016 20:02
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steinrokkan posted:The key is to get the slim margin needed to get a head start on policies. When people see that things are getting better for them, and that the well-being of minorities is in no way in the way of that, it will be easier to reform them. And then what happens when those progressive economics policies end up materializing nothing for minorities, the same way the unions abandoned us?
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Nov 10, 2016 20:01
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Nelson Mandingo posted:While I am extremely disappointed in the Trump win, I actually am sort of proud of America honestly. Establishment, markets, wallstreet, and all the other monied interests were rooting for a Clinton win. She outspent him 15 to 1. And that didn't happen. I've given this some consideration and realized the implications are huge for progressive causes. We can safely take every single preconception we have about how to run a presidential campaign and throw them in the trash. Donald J. Trump was elected president, your preconceptions were poo poo. Take single-payer healthcare for example. The preconception is you cannot run a candidate who will support single-payer healthcare because the insurance and pharma industries will blow you out of the water with spending. And they will, but it won't matter because with the right messaging an electorate pissed about high medical costs will support it. Progressives have been terrified of running on progressive policies because they think of the opposition they face, but they fail to realize people would support it if they actually tried it every once in a while.
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Nov 10, 2016 20:01
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Squashing Machine posted:You're fine with violence now because you feel like you're on the back foot. Normalizing violence does nothing. You're essentially advocating for a left-wing Bundy gang. "You're just as bad as them if you defend your life" is all I'm hearing.
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Nov 10, 2016 20:02
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Squashing Machine posted:Because it's just good common sense? I find it funny that a common party stance of full gun control is thrown under the paranoia bus the moment we feel threatened. It's almost like it wasn't really a value at all! It's basically a luxury item for liberalism, given it'd be enormously hard to implement (remember you'd need to buyback guns and actively remove them from circulation) and enrages the Republican base like the red flag in bullfighting. It was loving stupid for Dems to try for it instead of shoring up their support on more core issues
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Nov 10, 2016 20:02
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negromancer posted:So I should just allow myself to be lynched to pass some sort of white progressive purity test? Put yourself in more danger all you want if it assuages your fear. But the bottom line is a gun in the home gets used on people in the home.
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Nov 10, 2016 20:03
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The Shortest Path posted:This. It needs to not be understated how much these people are willing to poo poo on their own plates if it means making brown people eat it too. That's pretty much the entire history of the post-slavery USA. Enough of the people who voted for Trump are merely selfish and not explicitly racist that if we can peel off an even slightly significant portion of them, the American left can become a dominant political force.
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Nov 10, 2016 20:02
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I started a bread and a sourdough starter. I feel a little better. Now back to your regularly scheduled argument.
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Nov 10, 2016 20:04
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The Shortest Path posted:This. It needs to not be understated how much these people are willing to poo poo on their own plates if it means making brown people eat it too. That's pretty much the entire history of the post-slavery USA. Glad to be in the upstairs office being the temp receptionist so I don't have to deal with those coworkers riling me up for the sake of it. Guy calls himself a Catholic when he routinely jokes about how he hates the poor. 
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Nov 10, 2016 20:04
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steinrokkan posted:The key is to get the slim margin needed to get a head start on policies. When people see that things are getting better for them, and that the well-being of minorities is in no way in the way of that, it will be easier to reform them. Impossible. How they will see it, if their income grew 100%, and minority income grew 50%. they will bitch that their income could have grown by 150% if it wasn't for those drat minorities. So your reasoning has no basis in historical fact and reality.
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Nov 10, 2016 20:04
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Tatsuta Age posted:Oh word? The long term answer to police brutality and hate crime is to uh, shoot them? Sure, if it came to that, why not? Self defense is the right of any citizen. But, you know, the presence of armed people is usually enough of a deterrent for people to act right, which has been backed up by history. Once again, read up on the history of the Black Panthers, who would show up armed whenever the police were there to ensure a black man getting arrested would be arrested in the same way a white one would and not unnecessarily brutalised just because they were black.
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Nov 10, 2016 20:04
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Make this the thread title pls:Squashing Machine posted:Saying "we needed to offer the white voters who went with Obama in the previous elections an incentive to come out for Hillary" is not the same as saying "we need to make nice with racists." Squashing Machine posted:Saying "we needed to offer the white voters who went with Obama in the previous elections an incentive to come out for Hillary" is not the same as saying "we need to make nice with racists." Squashing Machine posted:Saying "we needed to offer the white voters who went with Obama in the previous elections an incentive to come out for Hillary" is not the same as saying "we need to make nice with racists."
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Nov 10, 2016 20:04
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HOTLANTA MAN posted:So a potential Trump cabinet is literally probably gonna be I just heard DHS might go to Sheriff of Milwaukee County David Clarke That would be pretty bad also
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Nov 10, 2016 20:04
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I encourage every black person in America to buy a gun if only to see the NRA squirm over how to respond to it.
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Nov 10, 2016 20:04
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Agnosticnixie posted:"You're just as bad as them if you defend your life" is all I'm hearing. We'd call a right-winger who was arguing this stance insane for saying his gun was purchased to defend his life. You're willfully blinding yourself to how guns are used in practice for a fantasy of safety.
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Nov 10, 2016 20:04
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Squashing Machine posted:Put yourself in more danger all you want if it assuages your fear. But the bottom line is a gun in the home gets used on people in the home. Yes, tell a Marine that has handled more guns than most in war zones how dangerous guns are. I also have throwing knives and a compound bow (though I may go buy a crossbow now as well).
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Nov 10, 2016 20:05
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Lessail posted:After this election you cannot claim this anymore Being that I voted against Trump because of the racism and because my ideal world would see every alt right nazi on twitter loaded onto trains for a ten year stint at a reeducation center. I would say you're delusional.
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Nov 10, 2016 20:06
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Al-Saqr posted:http://www.mprnews.org/story/2016/11/10/sanders-decries-working-class-vote-for-trump That's cool.
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Nov 10, 2016 20:05
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I won't be surprised if we need policies similar to those in the 50s and 60s in regard to treatment of Civil Right groups. Republicans are gonna go for broke.
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Nov 10, 2016 20:06
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Squashing Machine posted:We'd call a right-winger who was arguing this stance insane for saying his gun was purchased to defend his life. You're willfully blinding yourself to how guns are used in practice for a fantasy of safety. Apparently poo poo like this is a fantasy.
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Nov 10, 2016 20:06
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Sharkopath posted:And then what happens when those progressive economics policies end up materializing nothing for minorities, the same way the unions abandoned us? I don't know, a decent government would push both at the same time, and let the economic benefits sell the populace on the social platform, while at the same time using their achievements to get a stronger mandate for the next term. I don't know how to get a person who is genuinely interested in promoting a comprehensive platform. I don't think anybody knows?
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Nov 10, 2016 20:05
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