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BREAKING: Cops break up protest with brutal and powerful spinning piledrivers "I was loving blocking," claims distraught activist
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Nov 10, 2016 06:17
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Deimus posted:Well... Trots though.. i....i am willing to work with them if they can just shut the gently caress up about bureaucracy or whatever ugh, i feel dirty Zoq-Fot-Pik posted:BREAKING: Cops break up protest with brutal and powerful spinning piledrivers lmao
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Nov 10, 2016 06:52
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=unDGJ75X7GQ so many liberals standing on a precipice rn, man wouldn't it be great if they took the plunge? i know they won't but still
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Nov 10, 2016 07:16
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Zoq-Fot-Pik posted:BREAKING: Cops break up protest with brutal and powerful spinning piledrivers a little fighting game humor..... yay.
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Nov 10, 2016 07:19
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For the learned marxists and Americans in this thread, I being neither, posit the question that's been in the back of my mind since the beginning of this election: from whence came this idea that class politics is the province of priviledged whites and how do we dispel it? The decolonization movement is almost entirely led under socialist red banners. Mandela buddied around with Soviet Union. Black panthers were maoists. But now, people seem quite convinced that a program for the worker's struggle necessarily equates to jettisoning the agenda of the minorities. How did this idea arise?
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Nov 10, 2016 14:48
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Well, if you'll notice, all three examples you gave were of anti-colonialist movements, right? Unfortunately, there are plenty of examples of chauvinism masquerading as class politics in imperial metropoles. Some big nasty lizards were even posting stuff about it earlier in the thread. Even Trump is an example of it. There are also some low-impact, high-visibility people who come at it from the other direction, but they are basically confined to Twitter and most of them seem to be going extinct after the catastrophe of the slay khaleesi's defeat.
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Nov 10, 2016 15:02
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goatse.cx posted:For the learned marxists and Americans in this thread, I being neither, posit the question that's been in the back of my mind since the beginning of this election: from whence came this idea that class politics is the province of priviledged whites and how do we dispel it? The decolonization movement is almost entirely led under socialist red banners. Mandela buddied around with Soviet Union. Black panthers were maoists. But now, people seem quite convinced that a program for the worker's struggle necessarily equates to jettisoning the agenda of the minorities. How did this idea arise? I think a great deal of it is derived from identity politics, an idea that neoliberals have been pushing since the 70's roughly. Basically since the New Deal coalition collapsed. Dems have struggled to build a real base since then. This is Adolf Reed's domain, so I'll let him do the talking: http://bennorton.com/adolph-reed-identity-politics-is-neoliberalism/ here's a really good interview with him talking about it too: http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2016/06/adolph-reed-identity-politics-exposing-class-division-in-democrats.html I think the establishment Dem folks in power wanted to drive a wedge between minority voters and the left as a way to prevent economic change while remaining in power.
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Nov 10, 2016 15:20
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That point about identity politics seems odd to me because if we understand the phrase broadly, then it would be fair to consider Marx a proponent of the development of a strong politics around proletarian identity. If anything, drawing a line between "class" and "identity" (what then of class identity?) strikes as less intelligible than drawing a line between an identity politics derived from materialism and emphasizing social structure (i.e., Marxism) and the idealist forms of identity politics that have sprouted from the soil of postmodernism — the sort Reed describes, individualistic and driven to negation without a clear positive program. maybe this is just semantics, though.
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Nov 10, 2016 16:26
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Aeolius posted:That point about identity politics seems odd to me because if we understand the phrase broadly, then it would be fair to consider Marx a proponent of the development of a strong politics around proletarian identity. If anything, drawing a line between "class" and "identity" (what then of class identity?) strikes as less intelligible than drawing a line between an identity politics derived from materialism and emphasizing social structure (i.e., Marxism) and the idealist forms of identity politics that have sprouted from the soil of postmodernism — the sort Reed describes, individualistic and driven to negation without a clear positive program. in the first paragraph in the first link: quote:[Identity] politics is not an alternative to class politics; it is a class politics, the politics of the left-wing of neoliberalism. It is the expression and active agency of a political order and moral economy in which capitalist market forces are treated as unassailable nature.
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Nov 10, 2016 16:37
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yeah i saw that. and i commented on it ("the sort Reed describes...") again, i'm just getting nitpicky about a phrase, as is my wont
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Nov 10, 2016 16:46
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oops i hosed up posting. ignore.
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Nov 10, 2016 16:59
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Pure Blaxplotiation posted:oops i hosed up posting. ignore. No.
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Nov 10, 2016 17:08
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To ignore a comrade loving up posting at a moment of key ideological struggle, this is a twelfth type.
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Nov 10, 2016 17:22
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The only identity politics I need is strong identity with the State.
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Nov 10, 2016 19:15
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Karl Barks posted:I think the establishment Dem folks in power wanted to drive a wedge between minority voters and the left as a way to prevent economic change while remaining in power. Yeah, people like MLK is completely whitewashed today. All Americans know is the 'I had a dream' speech and think he was a non-militant protester, he was explicitly anti-capitalist. Like, in reality he was going to form a poor people's movement, black and white before he was killed. That's a good example of class consciousness. Americans didn't really vote Trump because of marxist class consciousness, class politics kinda gets in the way of that where most liberals just blame the nebulous 'evil banker and politicians' as if that's going to solve anything. Even Occupy Wall Street was the same way as Trump, the people want a more 'ethical' Capitalism. With red colonial movements it's clear that they face an exploitive class structure, inherent in the current system (one class, probably in the form of an international corperation or even a local landlord, takes the surplus of their productivity and that surplus leaves the people for good and is instead distributed by the higher classes). How we go back and do like what workers movements in the 30s did (Unions organized with the massive help of the Communist and Socialist parties) and later what the Panthers, Malcom X, and MLK did and tried to do I really dont know.
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Nov 10, 2016 19:25
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Deimus posted:How we go back and do like what workers movements in the 30s did (Unions organized with the massive help of the Communist and Socialist parties) and later what the Panthers, Malcom X, and MLK did and tried to do I really dont know. You actually go out and do it instead of playing video games in all your spare time.
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Nov 10, 2016 19:27
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Deimus posted:Yeah, people like MLK is completely whitewashed today. All Americans know is the 'I had a dream' speech and think he was a non-militant protester, he was explicitly anti-capitalist. Like, in reality he was going to form a poor people's movement, black and white before he was killed. That's a good example of class consciousness. The whole civil rights and almost any movement has been whitewashed. The biggest part of the whitewashing of progressive struggle in the US is removing the violence. MLK was non-militant, but our education system ignores the fact that the threat of violence if something wasn't done was super real, the fact that almost every single well known black activist of the time was murdered is a pretty clear indicator that poo poo was ready to go down. Unions got poo poo done in the old days because people loving died on the picket line, not because everyone was all happy go lucky love and peace. Taking the civil rights movement and turning into an "always peacefully protest and we will win" feel good moment is such a farce. If you want to take a stand on something and you're part of a movement and you want poo poo to actually change you have to leave violence as an option. Burning poo poo, breaking poo poo during protests is a reminder of that and I'm ashamed of the liberal left in the US abandoning these tactics in favor of hugs.
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Nov 10, 2016 19:34
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The Black Panther Free Breakfast program is the most realistic model to pursue within the next year to bring socialism directly to the people who need it most. There sure as Hell ain't gonna be no welfare anymore.
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Nov 10, 2016 19:48
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Living in a neoliberal dystopia made any hope of effective direct action seem pointless. After all, what difference would it make when liberals claim a monopoly on real political power? Well thanks to their monumental institutional failure, it's going to make all the difference in the world now. The realm of possibility has exploded into an ocean.
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Nov 10, 2016 19:50
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There was a good post somewhere about a Spanish far right party's community outreach to impoverished neighborhoods. They set up free food programs, children's programs, homeless community support. Actions that people would be directly impacted by. Even clashed with police to try and prevent residents from being evicted. Direct actions like that are what galvanise locals to your cause. Preaching from afar (or the internet) only gets you so far without an already established base of support. So yeah, unions were really effective at this when local workers' livelihoods were on the line. Not so much when you got think tank wonks in NYC and DC giving an interview about their latest economic findings on the Midwest states.
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Nov 10, 2016 19:52
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:You actually go out and do it instead of playing video games in all your spare time. Hey, well personally I don't. Also I'm in poverty and in the middle of nowhere Illinois with zero organizations, I can't really travel. Doorknob Slobber posted:Burning poo poo, breaking poo poo during protests is a reminder of that and I'm ashamed of the liberal left in the US abandoning these tactics in favor of hugs. Absolutely agreed, but this surely it wasn't forgotten on accident. This new line of thinking helps the status quo and gives an ideological belief in liberal democracy, it's clear who benefits from that.
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Nov 10, 2016 19:52
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:The Black Panther Free Breakfast program is the most realistic model to pursue within the next year to bring socialism directly to the people who need it most. There sure as Hell ain't gonna be no welfare anymore. yep. the psl has been doing serve the people type stuff for a while and it's all the more important to keep it up now
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Nov 10, 2016 19:58
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Homework Explainer posted:yep. the psl has been doing serve the people type stuff for a while and it's all the more important to keep it up now do you have their number for the MA chapter? the one i called doesn't work.
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Nov 10, 2016 19:59
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Fiction posted:do you have their number for the MA chapter? the one i called doesn't work. is the boston number the one you used? 857-334-5084? if so i'd try email, they're ah, a little busy right now
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Nov 10, 2016 20:08
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Deimus posted:Hey, well personally I don't. Also I'm in poverty and in the middle of nowhere Illinois with zero organizations, I can't really travel. lol, I didn't mean to imply that you're a part of this problem, but it's been the general tendency of the Left in the past to retreat back into their own echo chambers and rubber rooms to escape the nightmare reality. Now it's liberals who are going to retreat into their Netflix accounts and cat videos, while we can be on the streets making a difference.
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Nov 10, 2016 20:11
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:lol, I didn't mean to imply that you're a part of this problem, but it's been the general tendency of the Left in the past to retreat back into their own echo chambers and rubber rooms to escape the nightmare reality. Now it's liberals who are going to retreat into their Netflix accounts and cat videos, while we can be on the streets making a difference. Ah, yeah sorry. But you're right. Nonetheless count me in for the upcoming peoples war.  
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Nov 10, 2016 20:14
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Homework Explainer posted:is the boston number the one you used? 857-334-5084? if so i'd try email, they're ah, a little busy right now lol well that's a good sign
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Nov 10, 2016 20:18
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CSPAM rn https://twitter.com/TheoRettich/status/796799151350628352
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Nov 10, 2016 22:20
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Speaking of that, does anyone have a recommendation for a few good books on the Russian communist revolution? How did that happen?
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Nov 10, 2016 22:55
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SSJ_naruto_2003 posted:Speaking of that, does anyone have a recommendation for a few good books on the Russian communist revolution? How did that happen? The failure of the Russian communists that led to the Soviet system was letting filthy college middle class people lead the charge
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Nov 10, 2016 23:19
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SSJ_naruto_2003 posted:Speaking of that, does anyone have a recommendation for a few good books on the Russian communist revolution? How did that happen? well there was a world war on for starters i'd recommend trotsky's 3-volume history, the cpsu's own history of the communist party of the soviet union and ten days that shook the world by john reed
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Nov 10, 2016 23:25
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Larry Parrish posted:The failure of the Russian communists that led to the Soviet system was letting filthy college middle class people lead the charge This was a new nation that, without the Bolsheviks, would otherwise have continued to be a backwater 3rd world country with famines happening every 4 years. Instead with socialism, it was the first nation in the world to implement an 8 hour work day. It increased literacy from about 20% to 80% in 20 years. The life expectancy under Stalin in the 50s was comparable to the USA at the time (keep in mind the context that the USSR didn't historically make it's wealth off of imperialism and domestic slavery, and a head start in industrialization for 100s of years). There was substantial local democracy, with woman elected at a much higher ratio than the west, the many soviets representing the parliament, it really wasn't a dictatorship. Collectives that improved the lives, life expectancy, literacy, etc of pretty much every peasant, that replaced the exploitative landlord class that would have kept things like the 19th century. Also there is a lot of false anti-com cold war statistics that even the left take for granted today, and they really shouldn't. Like I looked at the numbers myself and the amount of people in gulags (basically labor prisons) is pretty much the ratio of people in prisons, doing labor for slave wages, in the United States today, keep in mind most of the people in US prisons are blacks put inside because of drug war excuses. The same point about anti-com statistics goes for Mao as well. People talk about Lenin and socialism being a failure, but the USSR, Cuba, China etc would still look something like India 100 years ago without it. But really like, look at the CIA's involvement in pretty much any communist elected, or rebellion post WW2, the US just destroyed these countries, it's blatant.
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Nov 10, 2016 23:49
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Larry Parrish posted:The failure of the Russian communists that led to the Soviet system was letting filthy college middle class people lead the charge IMO the biggest problem for the Bolsheviks off the bat was that the civil war eviscerated the proletariat, which meant that the ranks had to be filled by illiterate or semi-literate peasants. That's why the middle class intelligentsia was able to so thoroughly command the ship. Anyways, the situation in the DNC right now is amazing. Entryism is a significant possibility. It reminds me of how a handful of Bolsheviks marched into the Winter Palace and seized it from a skeleton crew of bureaucrats.
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Nov 11, 2016 00:00
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Nov 11, 2016 00:02
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can anyone recommend some good sources on whats happening in venezuela that isn't "lol socialism just doesn't work"?
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Nov 11, 2016 00:17
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dsa meeting tonight maybe they'll be ready to get radical
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Nov 11, 2016 00:33
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This was the perfect time for Civ VI to make Communism the best late game government.
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Nov 11, 2016 01:04
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resar posted:can anyone recommend some good sources on whats happening in venezuela that isn't "lol socialism just doesn't work"? this just came out at the beginning of the month and people i deem trustworthy are speaking highly of it. haven't started it myself yet.
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Nov 11, 2016 01:43
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resar posted:can anyone recommend some good sources on whats happening in venezuela that isn't "lol socialism just doesn't work"? there's not a lot of good reporting from there because so much of the media is opposition- or privately owned and they all hate the psuv telesur is good even though it's the exact opposite: state-owned
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Nov 11, 2016 01:56
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that's the stuff
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Nov 11, 2016 02:09
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