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Space Cadet Omoly posted:I really don't think a wall of that size can be built in four years, or at least not built in a way that's structurally sound. And then after it's up it would require lots of repairs and maintenance and all that jazz. The ground will never even be broken on the wall.
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Nov 10, 2016 22:59
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RIP the Dems, can't wait for the GOP to dominate the country entirely for the next twenty years while the "progressive" wing leads a movement for the Dems to shun literally everyone except young white males
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Nov 10, 2016 23:00
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greatn posted:How is Keith Ellison? All I know is he is on the he and he is Muslim and black. Anything laughably wrong with him? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FHkPadFK34o he predicted trump winning while everyone else laughed at him and is remarkably smart and forward thinking when compared with many other people in congress e: to answer your question: no
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Nov 10, 2016 23:01
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DACK FAYDEN posted:Sure, but if that productive work won't pass because "we don't want big government doing X" but the wall will pass because "we want a wall", then gently caress it, build the wall. Useless Keynesian boondoggle is better than no spending at all. 
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Nov 10, 2016 23:00
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Meyers-Briggs Testicle posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FHkPadFK34o Still think that the thread should be named USPOL November: The Vindication of Nate Silver by the Narcissist Donald Trump
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Nov 10, 2016 23:02
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idiotsavant posted:Bullshit. Yeah, maybe you can put some blame on them for sitting it out. But you can put all of the blame on the Democratic Party for years of "do as I say, not as I do" and lesser of two evils garbage. For burying progressive issues that their constituents demonstrably want. Private speech transcripts come out where Hillary tells bankers that sometimes you have to tell different people different things, and voters take a look at how the Democratic track record has affected their lives, and walk. That doesn't make any kind of sense to you? Get this through your head, anyone who has to feel catered to first before going out to vote down the most openly bigoted presidential campaign in 50 years isn't a real loving progressive. It does not make a difference how you feel about the performance of the candidate and the campaign, everyone who stayed home, and everyone who did the even worse thing of willingly voting for Trump, deserves blame in this.
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Nov 10, 2016 23:02
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Too Shy Guy posted:Trump actually called out a lot of infrastructure work he wants to get done in his victory speech. He specifically named highways, bridges, and a few other important facets. Ironically I think it was McConnell who said the Senate isn't really interested in taking that on. If he honestly did do stuff like that, and ended up just being a really cunty Eishower republican, id be ok with that. but i just dont know.
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Nov 10, 2016 23:01
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Fojar38 posted:Reminder that the GOP hates spending and Trump wants to spend. There are already cracks in the right-wing coalition that just aren't apparent yet. The GOP hates spending when they don't control where the money goes. They LOVE spending when they do.
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Nov 10, 2016 23:03
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Fojar38 posted:The ground will never even be broken on the wall. Precedent suggests otherwise.
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Nov 10, 2016 23:03
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I'm still not really all in on getting back into thinking about, talking about, and watching politics again. This isn't just some "Woe is me, we shall now descend into the abyss" whine, although trying to get past that fear is part of it. I'm just having trouble approaching this situation in a manner that might be constructive. But it seems a lot of people do not have that hang up here. At the very least we do have the numbers coming in finally. Hillary won the popular vote, Donald won the electoral college. Only one of those matters. Both candidates lost voters compared to last election and we lost the support of far more and in far more important places. But it wasn't a wave for the GOP. It was the Dems loss 100%. There wasn't a silent majority of right wing adherents who decided to make their presence known as a stance against the Obama years. We just lost more voters than the GOP did. But the nation did not magically turn into a giant KKK rally that we need to appeal to. It's ultimately the same population that is in favor of the ACA, in favor of Roe v. Wade, and in favor of things like gun control. The populace is still the most progressive we've ever been as a country, to whatever consolation that's worth to you. At the numbers we have now only 37.6% of the nation voted. If you adjust that to voting eligible population it's 49.5%. The people who voted for the incoming presidential administration represent 24.7% of the voting eligible population. What this tells me is that the Democratic party does not, in fact, need to start our own Southern Strategy. Get that poo poo out of your heads, people who are saying we need to stop fighting so hard against bigotry because it makes bigots sad and more likely to vote against us. These are the same people who always vote against us. It just turns out that the GOP base is more reliable than the Dem base. We lost 5.79 million votes. That's what we need to focus on. What do we need to do to ensure we get those votes again? Right now, I don't know what specifically we need to focus in on because god knows what the most pressing situation for the country will be in 2 and 4 years. It could be simple economic revitalization or it could be the need for unleaded bread. But we hosed up with Clinton. I forget who said it, but "Let's use the ultimate test for what a successful candidate is: An Election." We lost with Clinton. Should we have? That's a meaningless question here. Yes the scandals were bullshit. I had a huge post talking about why the email thing was a bunch of poo poo. But ultimately Clinton was seen as having too much baggage, seen as being uncharismatic, and did not engage the voters we should have had with the platform she took. Is that true? I don't think so. But the electorate did. That's what matters. What we ran with Clinton didn't win. And looking at what I said above, the answer isn't to run to the center or right, but to push further left. We need to do better. But I don't know who the Dems can run in 4 years right now. Maybe someone will come out of seemingly nowhere like Obama. Someone who right now no one is noticing. But probably our next candidate will be another Kerry. So we're looking for someone in 8 years. We need that inspiring hope and change candidate. We need them to be cleaner. We need them to be fresher. Trump was, amazingly, the hope and change guy this time around. It was just terrible change and the hope was of something that takes 14 words to explain. Right now though? This is the worst part. Now we wait. We don't know just how he's going to act in power. We don't even know for sure who his cabinet will be. But from what he's promised and campaigned on it'll be bad. We need to keep working, pushing, and moving forward. We're in for a long 4 years but if we don't start working now then it'll only get worse. Call your representatives. Call your senators. Write to the office of the president. Call, email, protest, volunteer, get involved. Try to challenge your friends and family politically (if you can). Be a good person and survive.
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Nov 10, 2016 23:03
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Trabisnikof posted:Unlikely.
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Nov 10, 2016 23:04
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Taerkar posted:The GOP hates spending when they don't control where the money goes. They LOVE spending when they do. Not all of them. The GOP is not a unified bloc and I don't understand why people seem to think that they are. They aren't any more unified than the Democrats are and that will become really apparent once they don't have a boogeyman to rally them. The Paulite wings will poo poo themselves at the idea of massive infrastructure spending for example and the Speaker of the House falls into that camp.
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Nov 10, 2016 23:04
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Space Cadet Omoly posted:I really don't think a wall of that size can be built in four years, or at least not built in a way that's structurally sound. And then after it's up it would require lots of repairs and maintenance and all that jazz. Oh what a terrible shame! Wouldn't it be awful - absolutely awful! - if Trump's presidency got bogged down on a pointless construction project in the desert, instead of working on dismantling our rights and persecuting minorities.
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Nov 10, 2016 23:05
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Glazier posted:Good, I'd like to see Bernie or John Lewis at the top setting vision with Warren running the day to day. BernieBros would accuse Lewis of being polarizing any time he suggests racism exists and is unique from classism
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Nov 10, 2016 23:05
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Dapper_Swindler posted:If he honestly did do stuff like that, and ended up just being a really cunty Eishower republican, id be ok with that. but i just dont know. Please don't use "oval office" or "cunty" as an insult or pejorative.
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Nov 10, 2016 23:04
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Main Paineframe posted:RIP the Dems, can't wait for the GOP to dominate the country entirely for the next twenty years while the "progressive" wing leads a movement for the Dems to shun literally everyone except young white males Why oh why are people angry at the DNC? They didn... oh ----------- * Ted Cruz * Donald Trump * Ben Carson We need to be elevating the Pied Piper candidates so that they are leaders of the pack and tell the press to [take] them seriously https://wikileaks.org/podesta-emails//fileid/1120/251 --------
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Nov 10, 2016 23:06
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Boehner didn't resign last year because the GOP is a unified bloc that's easy to direct wherever the establishment wants, guys.
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Nov 10, 2016 23:06
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Main Paineframe posted:RIP the Dems, can't wait for the GOP to dominate the country entirely for the next twenty years while the "progressive" wing leads a movement for the Dems to shun literally everyone except young white males Well clearly doing so works wonders, looking at the GOP. PKJC posted:Get this through your head, anyone who has to feel catered to first before going out to vote down the most openly bigoted presidential campaign in 50 years isn't a real loving progressive. It does not make a difference how you feel about the performance of the candidate and the campaign, everyone who stayed home, and everyone who did the even worse thing of willingly voting for Trump, deserves blame in this. This.
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Nov 10, 2016 23:06
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PKJC posted:Get this through your head, anyone who has to feel catered to first before going out to vote down the most openly bigoted presidential campaign in 50 years isn't a real loving progressive. It does not make a difference how you feel about the performance of the candidate and the campaign, everyone who stayed home, and everyone who did the even worse thing of willingly voting for Trump, deserves blame in this. Sounds like a winning campaign ad.
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Nov 10, 2016 23:07
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It occurs to me that when HRC said that "America is already great" it played just fine with the connected and metro liberal base but those people standing on the edge of the end of the world in rural areas had their confirmation that she was a liar in that moment. That's where the campaigns diverged because I remember that was around when the seemingly unprovoked quips of her being a liar really started to persist. It doesn't matter who's a "real progressive" this constant engagement in culture war is what got us where we are today. RuanGacho fucked around with this message at 23:10 on Nov 10, 2016 |
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Nov 10, 2016 23:07
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Fojar38 posted:Boehner didn't resign last year because the GOP is a unified bloc that's easy to direct wherever the establishment wants, guys. People need to remember 2004, when the last thousand years of GOP darkness lasted all of two years and that was when half the party didn't hate the President.
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Nov 10, 2016 23:07
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Who What Now posted:Nah, you can totally put the majority of the blame at the feet of the people who see absolutely nothing wrong with destroying the lives of everyone who isn't straight or white. They might as well have gone ahead and pulled the lever for Trump, the results would have been exactly the same. So gently caress them. Cool, see you in 2020 with the next centrist Democrat to lose to Trump.
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Nov 10, 2016 23:10
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RuanGacho posted:It occurs to me that when HRC said that "America is already great" it played just fine with the connected and metro liberal base but those people standing on the edge of the end of the world in rural areas had their confirmation that she was a liar in that moment. America *is* great on the coasts. It's prosperous and powerful and innovative. Life is good. Don't the people who live in the interior want some of that? Why are they all "We hate the west/east coast elites!" rather than "How can we have that here?"
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Nov 10, 2016 23:10
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Fojar38 posted:The Paulite wings will poo poo themselves at the idea of massive infrastructure spending for example and the Speaker of the House falls into that camp. A lot of Republicans also hate deficit spending, which, with the debt limit creeping up and a likely decrease in revenues from tax cuts, is going to be necessary for any infrastructure spending.
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Nov 10, 2016 23:10
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BarbarianElephant posted:Oh what a terrible shame! Wouldn't it be awful - absolutely awful! - if Trump's presidency got bogged down on a pointless construction project in the desert, instead of working on dismantling our rights and persecuting minorities. What the gently caress do you think, he's going to pop a loving beach chair down and watch the progress in realtime? Like any actions he makes are totally serial, and not at all able to be accomplished in parallel with each other?
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Nov 10, 2016 23:10
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RuanGacho posted:It occurs to me that when HRC said that "America is already great" it played just fine with the connected and metro liberal base but those people standing on the edge of the end of the world in rural areas had their confirmation that she was a liar in that moment. That's where the campaigns diverged because I remember that was around when the seemingly unprovoked quips of her being a liar really started to persist. I don't think it meaningfully hurt her campaign, but "America is already great" felt like a pretty big blunder. It's a great burn, but I have no idea how it's supposed to resonate with anyone who isn't extremely happy with the status quo.
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Nov 10, 2016 23:12
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Flip Yr Wig posted:Sounds like a winning campaign ad. "Hmm, on the one hand, one candidate promised to deport Muslims, Arabs, and Mexicans, said that sexual harassment isn't a big deal and bragged about sexually assaulting women, wants to overturn Roe v Wade, opposes gay marriage, and will likely have the opportunity to appoint two or three SC justices if elected. But on the other hand, the other candidate didn't really speak to me, so I guess I don't really care who wins" - someone who totally cares really hard about equal rights for women, LGBTs, and minorities
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Nov 10, 2016 23:11
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Flip Yr Wig posted:Sounds like a winning campaign ad. Nahh, "Bash the fash" would be a winning campaign ad imo But sure, let's continue washing away any idea that people should feel guilt and shame for the harm they did to others who are worse off than them on Tuesday. White "progressives" are so sensitive, second only in fragile emotions to conservatives.
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Nov 10, 2016 23:12
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Fojar38 posted:Boehner didn't resign last year because the GOP is a unified bloc that's easy to direct wherever the establishment wants, guys. The GOP was barely united when they had Obama to focus all their hatred on, I have no idea what's going to happen now that all the various factions of the GOP have to actually decide on what to pass together
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Nov 10, 2016 23:12
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Glazier posted:People need to remember 2004, when the last thousand years of GOP darkness lasted all of two years and that was when half the party didn't hate the President. My dream is that Donald Trump listens to a Huey Long audiobook and either drags the GOP kicking and screaming into social democracy, or burns the whole rotten edifice of the party to the ground in the ensuing internal war. It's not a very likely dream, but it's not COMPLETELY nuts.
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Nov 10, 2016 23:12
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Tatsuta Age posted:What the gently caress do you think, he's going to pop a loving beach chair down and watch the progress in realtime? Like any actions he makes are totally serial, and not at all able to be accomplished in parallel with each other? No, but the project will be a clusterfuck and won't run quietly as a background task. He'll need to pay considerable attention.
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Nov 10, 2016 23:11
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BarbarianElephant posted:America *is* great on the coasts. It's prosperous and powerful and innovative. Life is good. Don't the people who live in the interior want some of that? Why are they all "We hate the west/east coast elites!" rather than "How can we have that here?" I think it is legitimate to ask if the generic voter we're talking about is more familiar with farm animals than animal farm. Paradoxish posted:I don't think it meaningfully hurt her campaign, but "America is already great" felt like a pretty big blunder. It's a great burn, but I have no idea how it's supposed to resonate with anyone who isn't extremely happy with the status quo. Right, exactly my point. There are two America's. We need to do something about that. RuanGacho fucked around with this message at 23:14 on Nov 10, 2016 |
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Nov 10, 2016 23:11
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Trabisnikof posted:Wait I thought the complaint was Clinton attacked Trump too much? Everyone has been whining in this thread she attacked Trump too much. That tweet isn't about attacking trump, it's about energizing your god drat base and showing people you will stand up for our party values and not try to be some centrist incrementalist like Hillary who never even tried to shift her image away from there. Hillary spent her entire campaign trying to get white women to vote for her by talking about love and showing clips of mean things Donald said. 53% of white women voted for the literal sexual predator despite all that effort. Stop trying to meet these people halfway and instead focus on getting your base to actually loving vote. Millions of previously democrat voters stayed home. Those are the people you need to convince, not some racist suburban bitches.
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Nov 10, 2016 23:12
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New fanfic: Trump administration (boy it sucks to type that) doesn't do half the racist abhorrent poo poo it says it would, Congress gets upset and impeach both him and Pence. Sonic the Hedgehog becomes the new president
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Nov 10, 2016 23:12
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BarbarianElephant posted:America *is* great on the coasts. It's prosperous and powerful and innovative. Life is good. Don't the people who live in the interior want some of that? Why are they all "We hate the west/east coast elites!" rather than "How can we have that here?" What are you talking about? Things are great in the red states, we don't have the property cost issues or crime issues you guys have Luckily for the coast, the Trumpster is gonna make them great again 
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Nov 10, 2016 23:13
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Fojar38 posted:
Trump isn't planning on infrastructure spending. Just tax subsidies for private companies. Congress will love it. The only spending he's talked about is defense spending, and that's one of the least efficient ways to stimulate the economy. If you have a job, here's hoping you keep it through the upcoming recession.
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Nov 10, 2016 23:14
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HorseRenoir posted:The GOP was barely united when they had Obama to focus all their hatred on, I have no idea what's going to happen now that all the various factions of the GOP have to actually decide on what to pass together How about all of it? They have control over the whole government so it should all go through fairly smoothly.
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Nov 10, 2016 23:13
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Main Paineframe posted:"Hmm, on the one hand, one candidate promised to deport Muslims, Arabs, and Mexicans, said that sexual harassment isn't a big deal and bragged about sexually assaulting women, wants to overturn Roe v Wade, opposes gay marriage, and will likely have the opportunity to appoint two or three SC justices if elected. But on the other hand, the other candidate didn't really speak to me, so I guess I don't really care who wins" - someone who totally cares really hard about equal rights for women, LGBTs, and minorities Like it is not a sizeable portion of the progressive base has the mentality of a 12 year old girl and needs to be ~~~iNsPiReD~~~~ to perform their civic duty. As long as that portion is large enough to dictate the outcome of the race they have to be catered to.
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Nov 10, 2016 23:14
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Main Paineframe posted:"Hmm, on the one hand, one candidate promised to deport Muslims, Arabs, and Mexicans, said that sexual harassment isn't a big deal and bragged about sexually assaulting women, wants to overturn Roe v Wade, opposes gay marriage, and will likely have the opportunity to appoint two or three SC justices if elected. But on the other hand, the other candidate didn't really speak to me, so I guess I don't really care who wins" - someone who totally cares really hard about equal rights for women, LGBTs, and minorities Hell, I agree that the people who stayed home deserve part of the blame, but that doesn't really get us anywhere. There's no winning political strategy that's built around shaming people for their vote. If you're trying to win elections, you need to get people to get to the loving polling place. Politicians can control what they say and who they try to appeal to, but they cannot literally force their base into the booth.
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Nov 10, 2016 23:14
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Spaced God posted:New fanfic: Trump administration (boy it sucks to type that) doesn't do half the racist abhorrent poo poo it says it would, Congress gets upset and impeach both him and Pence. No no, wait, we need this instead 
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Nov 10, 2016 23:15
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