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LmaoTheKid posted:Guillotines. Oh gently caress off with this poo poo.
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Nov 10, 2016 23:49
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LmaoTheKid posted:Guillotines. I can't find my Guillotine. It's a serious question everyone's like "WE HAVE TO DO SOMETHING!" However to an outsider like me, I have no idea what those somethings might be. Do I wait for a candidate who is progressive and volunteer for them?
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Nov 10, 2016 23:51
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hailthefish posted:And the well's so completely loving poisoned on discourse about it, both by the people with weird fringe viewpoints trying to co-opt the whole movement, and by the fuckers on the alt-right who've gleefully co-opted any possible term you could use to describe to the weird-fringe-viewpoint people and started using it to apply to Yeah, it's easy to forget that LF was laughing at tumblr SJWs before 4chan even knew they existed. It used to be a specific term for the kind of people who want to put trigger warnings on pictures of pomegranates and think Cainisgender is a real thing, but now it means, well... what we all know it means. gently caress man I still can't get over how bad a Candidate Hillary was. Holy poo poo. How did I ever believe that she wouldn't bungle this whole thing?
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Nov 10, 2016 23:51
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When does a permanent chair get selected?
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Nov 10, 2016 23:51
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SerCypher posted:Someone else asked, this, but what /is/ the best way to fight against the neoliberal faction of the democratic party. Find out when your party has meetings and caucuses and poo poo, on the precinct and county level, and start showing up and saying stuff.
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Nov 10, 2016 23:52
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SerCypher posted:Someone else asked, this, but what /is/ the best way to fight against the neoliberal faction of the democratic party. Marginalize it by forging ties with the other blocs. There's a lot of cats in this herd, get enough of them in your group and the others are gonna either have to bend the knee or run away. Vox Nihili posted:I don't have a particular opinion on Dean as chair but I'm not sure if committing resources to Oklahoma and Kentucky is going to pay dividends in the short, mid, or even long term. Not today. What I mean by bringing up the 50 state strategy is that Dean seems to have a good head for strategy and it might be a good idea bringing him along as some sort of strategic advisor to get a game plan for 2018 and 2020 and 2022.
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Nov 10, 2016 23:52
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Vox Nihili posted:I don't have a particular opinion on Dean as chair but I'm not sure if committing resources to Oklahoma and Kentucky is going to pay dividends in the short, mid, or even long term. I hate hate hate to use an aphorism, but you can't have grassroots if you never plant seeds. I used to live in the OKC metro area, and I still have a bunch of friends from there on my Facebook. They were, to a one, horrified by the outcome of this election. I don't know if this means anything at all, but the Midwest isn't a Mad Max pit of despair filled with nothing but Trump supporters.
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Nov 10, 2016 23:53
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Raskolnikov38 posted:we already have an interim chair, keith ellison wants it and bernie is backing him. dean can eat a bag of dicks
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Nov 10, 2016 23:52
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I have an opinion on Dean as Chair: it's bad. real bad.
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Nov 10, 2016 23:52
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MJ12 posted:Nobody is saying to try to go and do another run solely on those issues unless it turns out like, Trump is literally loving Hitler at which point maybe 100% racial identity politics is the correct answer because gently caress Hitler. But the Hitler comparison makes me think. Hitler got where he was at least in part because he used economic distress and perceived international unfairness to legitimize overt racism and genocide. It might be easier to sell 'we need less identity politics and more genuine inclusive socialism' to minorities when you're selling it as a way to prevent a Hitler figure from hijacking legitimate grievance and turning it against minorities as a weapon. I feel like you can be objective with racism and make sure that Federal laws are passed and enforced that root out systemic discrimination. You identify weaknesses in current law, you explain how you will fix them with specific language, and you add it to your platform. You don't have to constantly remind everyone that racism exists, instead you constantly remind everyone that racism can be addressed. Same with social welfare. You go around to numerous poor parts of the country, how about Mississippi, one of the poorest states in the nation, and you outline specific issues they've had. Then you come up with policies that will address those issues, while also demonstrating that it wasn't the (blacks,whites) that were causing the problem. You be honest, you don't say that you can fix it, you don't promise them what you can't deliver. What you do is you demonstrate that it CAN be fixed. You do this all over the country using similar language and progressive policies and you don't do stupid poo poo like completely ignore a state just because you have no chance there. The purpose of these state visits it's to "win" them. It's to show the rest of the nation, including places that you might win, that you care more about their votes, you care about their future. ate shit on live tv has issued a correction as of 23:54 on Nov 10, 2016 |
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Nov 10, 2016 23:52
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i cant emptyquote that one vid where keith says trump will win and ppl laughed at him enough when choosing between him and dean as chair.
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Nov 10, 2016 23:53
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Dapper_Swindler posted:is he that bad? dean fits all of the characteristics of a trojan horse to trick the progressives: 1. from a time that is associated with victory (50 state strategy which payed incredible dividends in 2006 and 2008) 2. was the progressive option in 2004 until he lost to john kerry 3. firebrand speaking style 1. worked as a pharma lobbyist 2. with newt gingrich at the same firm 3. 
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Nov 10, 2016 23:54
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wow all the responses to that dean tweet are making GBS threads on him relentlessly. the dem establishment might not realize how much deep poo poo theyre in
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Nov 10, 2016 23:55
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LinYutang posted:@freddiedeboer is really great right now
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Nov 10, 2016 23:54
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Zikan posted:it's likely that whatever remains of the new democrats will back Dean as an "acceptable" compromise with the progressives. this is the first fight.
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Nov 10, 2016 23:55
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LmaoTheKid posted:I have an opinion on Dean as Chair: it's bad. real bad. Also he helped vilify Bernie. Dean deserves a bus.
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Nov 10, 2016 23:54
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Nonsense posted:Also he helped vilify Bernie. Dean deserves a bus. this will probably and hopefully ultimately sink him
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Nov 10, 2016 23:55
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Sheng-ji Yang posted:wow all the responses to that dean tweet are making GBS threads on him relentlessly. the dem establishment might not realize how much deep poo poo theyre in That's insane, these are the level headed grownups in the room that chose candidate Hillary Rodham Clinton for us idk how you could doubt their insight n decisionmakings
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Nov 10, 2016 23:56
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Shark Sandwich posted:When does a permanent chair get selected? My hearsay understanding is that there is no formal deadline for Donna to fall on her sword. So as soon as the establishment decides who we will stomach that is not affiliated with progressives, I guess?
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Nov 10, 2016 23:58
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Nov 11, 2016 00:00
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Vox Nihili posted:Stupid. Obama won 2008 and 2012. The Democrats need someone who can fight and campaign and win first and foremost, be they black, white, latino, whatever. Hillary could not and did not fight. Nah man let's all freak out and blame this on the woke twitterati.
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Nov 10, 2016 23:59
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Grondoth posted:Yeah, it's easy to forget that LF was laughing at tumblr SJWs before 4chan even knew they existed. It used to be a specific term for the kind of people who want to put trigger warnings on pictures of pomegranates and think Cainisgender is a real thing, but now it means, well... what we all know it means. The problem is no one was willing to draw a line. I always use the example that I am triggered by the Nutcracker Suite (well, used to be moreso). But guess what? You can't tell everyone to stop playing it, or warn before it's played, or create a No-Fly Zone of Christmas music around my loving head. But that's where it got, and though even Tumblr has cooled on that, it was more because it was too much effort than because there was a productive discourse about it.
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Nov 11, 2016 00:00
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The only reason I don't immediately reject Dean is that I'm terrified of the prospect of an even emptier suit getting the job. DWS syndrome.
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Nov 11, 2016 00:01
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Thanks for the feedback. I'm looking at the calendar for my area and trying to figure out which events are open to the public.
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Nov 11, 2016 00:01
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Well What Now posted:Addressing the concerns of poor white Americans is not mutually exclusive with advancing social justice in racial matters. I agree with this, dude. But be prepared for the possibility of still not getting a majority of the subdemographic and for your stronger gains to come from the rest of the working class. To be clear, I think democratic margins can improve among poorer white Americans without winning many voters back from Trump outright, i.e. taking Trump voters and making them Kanye voters. Modern American electoral politics turns heavily on turnout.
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Nov 11, 2016 00:02
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Souai posted:My hearsay understanding is that there is no formal deadline for Donna to fall on her sword. So as soon as the establishment decides who we will stomach that is not affiliated with progressives, I guess? So basically we have to have a civil war because the people who gave us abuela won't admit defeat
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Nov 11, 2016 00:04
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Shark Sandwich posted:So basically we have to have a civil war because the people who gave us abuela won't admit defeat
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Nov 11, 2016 00:05
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Shark Sandwich posted:So basically we have to have a civil war because the people who gave us abuela won't admit defeat More or less. They have no actual leg to stand on, but they landed in the positions and have their little networks and they're going to fight tooth and nail to hold on to relevancy.
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Nov 11, 2016 00:05
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Just wanted to say this thread is a good read so far
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Nov 11, 2016 00:05
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Shark Sandwich posted:So basically we have to have a civil war because the people who gave us abuela won't admit defeat I sort of wish we could elect our party representatives. I don't know how we get the equivalent of a Corbyn takeover here, and I don't see them giving it up at this point.
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Nov 11, 2016 00:04
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Peel posted:I agree with this, dude. But be prepared for the possibility of still not getting a majority of the subdemographic and for your stronger gains to come from the rest of the working class. The reason why people keep posting Obama's numbers with rural voters is that - despite it not being a huge majority - it was still better than the abysmal 2016 showing. Like really, any kind of positive outreach would be beneficial at this point, yet there are still shills here claiming it's impossible because bluh bluh
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Nov 11, 2016 00:05
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SerCypher posted:Someone else asked, this, but what /is/ the best way to fight against the neoliberal faction of the democratic party. hailthefish posted:Find out when your party has meetings and caucuses and poo poo, on the precinct and county level, and start showing up and saying stuff. you can also maybe volunteer with something like the PCCC (are they still good? idk) or the PDA (same q)
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Nov 11, 2016 00:05
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They actually do need a 50 state strategy though, whether Dean's the party head or a functionary or retired or in the trump gulag
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Nov 11, 2016 00:06
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Shark Sandwich posted:So basically we have to have a civil war because the people who gave us abuela won't admit defeat I doubt it. I think they're gonna slink away. A lot of them are 'moderate' democrats who are outside of the direct halls of power who could easily jump ship into becoming moderate Republicans. Neoliberalism was a huge Republican thing and you're joking if you think they were actually purged from the party. Remember, Kaish was/is one foreign-policy wise at least, and probably just as much outside. They're just waiting for a way to do a palace coup on the populists, like they did to the Tea Party.
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Nov 11, 2016 00:06
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looks like the DNC chair is going to be the first big battle of the dem civil war
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Nov 11, 2016 00:08
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Zikan posted:you gotta remember that for the white working class vote, obama portrayed himself in 2012 as saving the auto industry (i.e. thousands of jobs in the rust belt) vs. a chariticure of gordan geeko / i.e. economic populism vs a technocrat This is a good post. Also these are good videos: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YKeYbEOSqYc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yz3jWJVsErc&t=454s Also votes aren't a zero sum game you dumb turds. You want to appeal to what used to be the white working class and to minorities at the same time? "The Democratic Party fights for social and economic justice for All Americans. We'll fight like hell for black and hispanic citizens who face legal and social discrimination every moment of their lives, and we'll fight like hell to bring opportunity back to rural Americans who saw their jobs shipped overseas so some rear end in a top hat's efficiency numbers could tick up" What can Democrats offer rural Americans in towns where the only factory closed down 10 years ago? Stop loving talking about nebulous job retraining and college programs for one. Put some god drat jobs back in these towns. Build a government plant that assembles windmills with the goal of covering the county with windmills over the next 20 years. Build a government plant that makes solar panels, train up local people to install them, and have a goal to cover every roof in the area with free solar panels over the next 20 years. Build a government research lab, or maybe a government clinic that offers free healthcare to the county. Hire people from the local state colleges to be the researchers or doctors, and give all the procurement, HR, security, janitorial, accounting, and other support jobs to local people. I came up with that in like 2 minutes. Take literally any liberal priority and build *something* in these areas that supports those priorities. Right now these people see that the Democratic Party has turned their backs on them. We waver between ignoring them and sneering at them. So they look at the GOP who says "Dunno how to fix that, but I swear those idiots caused it and I promise to punch 'em in the nose for ya!" These voters pick revenge because their poo poo already fell apart and it's either revenge or nothing at all. We can easily offer a better path forward for them. And I know people are saying "but but but if this subsection of our base turned out we'd have won!" Who gives a poo poo? Here's a massive chunk of the voting population that is loving begging for a political party to offer them real solutions. We can offer those solutions completely within the realm of things we currently want to do. Why the gently caress wouldn't we want to do that?
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Nov 11, 2016 00:09
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https://twitter.com/freddiedeboer/status/796717089394401280
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Nov 11, 2016 00:10
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because this is my only source of hope right now i'm literally looking up the bylaws of the DNC here: http://s3.amazonaws.com/uploads.democrats.org/Downloads/DNC_Charter__Bylaws_9.17.15.pdfquote:ARTICLE FIVE as far as I can tell the Democratic National Committee consists of quote:Section 2. The Democratic National Committee shall be composed of: i may begin a spread sheet with the contact info of all of these fucks so phone, letter, and e-mail campaigns can begin
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Nov 11, 2016 00:11
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everyone knows the only way to win the poor white vote is to put on your best southern accent and mosey over to their state fairs and be racist and eat pork chops with them
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Nov 11, 2016 00:13
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Vox Nihili posted:I don't have a particular opinion on Dean as chair but I'm not sure if committing resources to Oklahoma and Kentucky is going to pay dividends in the short, mid, or even long term. As someone who lives in Kentucky, I can tell you that it was only this election that finally knocked Dems out of the majority in the state house. Kentucky is ripe for local democrats, we just have to make sure they aren't identified with Hillary and her ilk.
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Nov 11, 2016 00:12
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