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India is racist against everyone in general. My father was Indian, and his family literally disowned him because he went against their wishes and married my mother (a Roma woman) As in, even when he was dying of cancer they refused to acknowledge him. I've got an entire branch of my family who refuses to acknowledge my and my siblings existence. Despite all of that he was very keen on teaching me about Indian culture and poo poo. I got a first hand tour of a lot of Indian temples and explanations of what the art depicted and why it was important.
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Nov 10, 2016 23:26
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HorseLord posted:He hung out in apartheid south africa a lot, where he was vocal in his support for apartheid but was angry that they classed him as black-equivalent. Technically Apartheid didn't start till 1948. Gandhi lived in the very-British colony of Natal who's persistent paranoid fear of the being subsumed by native Africans flooding across their borders led to them implementing a proto-apartheid system of segregation involving widespread land disenfranchisement and the creation of native reserves ruled by state-aligned chiefs, with labour demands for sugar plantations being met with imported indentured workers from India. Gandhi got caught up in the political movement to protect the limited political privileges of the Natal Asians after full self-government was extended to Natal and they immediately started moving to expel Indian workers, taking a note from anti-Asian legislation coming out of the Boer Republics. A lot of it involved appealing to their record as upstanding and loyal citizens of the glorious empire and it's civilizing mission unlike those zulu savages etc etc.
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Nov 10, 2016 23:30
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Rush Limbo posted:India is racist against everyone in general. My father was Indian, and his family literally disowned him because he went against their wishes and married my mother (a Roma woman)
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Nov 10, 2016 23:39
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FactsAreUseless posted:Is it an extension of the caste stuff, or something else? I wouldn't be surprised if it was, but I have no idea. I always just assumed it was bog standard racism coupled with their cultural obsession with honour etc.
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Nov 10, 2016 23:42
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FactsAreUseless posted:Is it an extension of the caste stuff, or something else? From what I understand, caste. As a non-Hindu you are the worst of all things, a mleccha, non-vedic, casteless, even worse than a sudra. Which in a culture that places (nowadays) a heavy emphasis on correct caste, marrying outside of that is even worse than marrying the "wrong" caste. On top of that Indian society is heavily patriarchal, with a strong bent toward the idea that you don't just marry the person, you marry the family, with a lot of pressure from your relatives to marry arranged. Even today it's frighteningly common for young people who have what is called a "love marriage" (as opposed to an arranged one) to have to cut off contact with their families entirely or risk the very real chance of having their spouse, themselves, or both of them get murdered. There's probably a lot more I could write but I don't want to derail a good thread into caste system chat.
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Nov 11, 2016 00:35
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Im just getting a bunch of Bernouts in my facebook feed saying that this is all the DNC's fault and if Bernie had just been elected, this wouldn't have happened. I mean, the people that were his primary demographic didn't even vote for him when it really mattered. How the hell would he have won in the general? Like the whole thing reeks of "I told you so" bullshit and reads off as whiny as gently caress because the DNC didn't listen to them and put Bernie in as the candidate. It reeks of "elect my white candidate with white issues" so we can win, while ignoring that Hillary Clinton did consistently better with most minorities. So basically racism by another name. Also, I severed ties with my Republican black uncle today and my aunt (his sister) is trying to tell me not to do that. But gently caress that. This poo poo is important to me and him being black and voting for a piece of poo poo like that just so he can save some tax money is telling.
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Nov 11, 2016 00:39
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blackguy32 posted:Im just getting a bunch of Bernouts in my facebook feed saying that this is all the DNC's fault and if Bernie had just been elected, this wouldn't have happened. I don't think he would have had any realistic chance, he was only popular with white middle classes and millennials and nobody else really, even though he polled quite well early with hispanics when it came to voting during primaries it showed that the polls were entirely wrong. Republicans could have also doubled down on the whole socialist card which terrifies a lot of their voters, so I really don't see how Bernie could have done much better unless he had managed to electrify more than his core supporters.
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Nov 11, 2016 00:53
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Bernie would have been washed with the comical amount of anti semitism being sprayed about.
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Nov 11, 2016 01:00
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blackguy32 posted:Im just getting a bunch of Bernouts in my facebook feed saying that this is all the DNC's fault and if Bernie had just been elected, this wouldn't have happened. Bernie fans are very abrasive and they don't even know it. Even when told that Hillary Clinton and him share like 90% of the same policies they still hated her because she wasn't their messiah.
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Nov 11, 2016 01:22
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Gaunab posted:Bernie fans are very abrasive and they don't even know it. Even when told that Hillary Clinton and him share like 90% of the same policies they still hated her because she wasn't their messiah. Maybe choosing a democrat who could have taken votes from people who voted for trump might have been a good thing? E/ like it was suggested quite a while back that he would have a better chance of beating trump than Hilary According to the latest NBC News|SurveyMonkey Weekly Election Tracking poll, former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton is now only slightly ahead of businessman Donald Trump in a general election match-up among registered voters, 47 percent to 45 percent. Vermont Senator Bernie Sanders, however, continues to perform much better against the presumptive Republican nominee than Clinton and is currently beating him by a full 12 points, 52 percent to 40 percent. Why does Sanders do better than Clinton against Trump? This is an important question that will have implications for Clinton’s campaign if she becomes the presumptive nominee and looks to win over voters in the coming months. That was from like June. https://www.google.com/amp/www.msnbc.com/msnbc/why-does-sanders-do-better-clinton-against-trump/amp?client=safari JFairfax fucked around with this message at 01:44 on Nov 11, 2016 |
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Nov 11, 2016 01:40
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Your logic appears sound on the surface and I think a lot of people would have agreed with you on Election Night and yesterday but don't tell me that you didn't assume that Hillary Clinton would have carried the white women vote.
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Nov 11, 2016 01:45
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Also don't forget that the GOP PACs were literally running ads boosting Bernie in the primary season. Bernie faced minimal attacks from Hillary and faced almost zero attacks from the right that weren't standard democrat attacks.
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Nov 11, 2016 01:47
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JFairfax posted:Maybe choosing a democrat who could have taken votes from people who voted for trump might have been a good thing? But why would you choose Trump, who is almost the complete opposite of your chosen candidate, instead of Hillary? To shake things up? I'm sorry but that's just stupid and selfish.
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Nov 11, 2016 01:47
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I see every thread in D&D will be "Bernie would've been better than Hillary" until we all eventually drown in global warming water.
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Nov 11, 2016 01:53
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Lightning Knight posted:I see every thread in D&D will be "Bernie would've been better than Hillary" until we all eventually drown in global warming water. Don't worry we will take breaks to roll our eyes at MLK Jr too!
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Nov 11, 2016 02:05
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Trabisnikof posted:Don't worry we will take breaks to roll our eyes at MLK Jr too! That republican shill? He's not ideologically pure enough for me to support.
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Nov 11, 2016 02:07
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Dexo posted:That republican shill? But did you know that Bernie marched with him?! 
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Nov 11, 2016 02:23
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Morby posted:But did you know that Bernie marched with him?! I mean sure. Bernie is a sellout. Unlike the pure Jill Stein.
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Nov 11, 2016 02:29
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Gaunab posted:But why would you choose Trump, who is almost the complete opposite of your chosen candidate, instead of Hillary? To shake things up? I'm sorry but that's just stupid and selfish. This is like American Voter 101 poo poo. We love screwing ourselves over and have been doing it for centuries.
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Nov 11, 2016 02:29
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Dexo posted:I mean sure. Bernie is a sellout. Unlike the pure Jill Stein. And Jill Stein tweeted about black oppression today!
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Nov 11, 2016 02:30
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https://twitter.com/iramfali/status/728333198799847424/video/1 Rep. Keith Ellison (D), an African American Muslim, somewhat predicted Trump in July, 2015. He was laughed at. Bernie wants to see him as the chair of the DNC.
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Nov 11, 2016 02:34
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Rush Limbo posted:India is racist against everyone in general. My father was Indian, and his family literally disowned him because he went against their wishes and married my mother (a Roma woman) Speaking of something kinda similar, my father is mixed race (Black and Chinese-Hawaiian) and he cut me, my mom and my brother out of his life because his mother and that side of my family didn't want to deal with "more blacks." To this day, they refuse to have any sort of dealings with us simply because we exist. Finding that out was the first time I ever felt spurned just for being Black.
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Nov 11, 2016 03:10
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blackguy32 posted:Im just getting a bunch of Bernouts in my facebook feed saying that this is all the DNC's fault and if Bernie had just been elected, this wouldn't have happened. She consistently did better with minorities over the age of 30. I know myself and others my age were never really on board with Clinton. I still don't understand how she had such broad appeal among Black Democrats, and when I asked family why they voted for her in the primary I got two answers: some variation of "It's her turn", or "she's more electable". I guess that is a good question for the thread: What has Hillary Clinton done for black people that made her the obvious choice in the primary?
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Nov 11, 2016 03:26
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Crab Destroyer posted:I guess that is a good question for the thread: What has Hillary Clinton done for black people that made her the obvious choice in the primary? I...don't actually know. I never found out what, exactly, it was. I was just always told black people supported Clinton more than Sanders.
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Nov 11, 2016 03:30
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I mean during the primaries I assumed it was a combination of name recognition and patronage to black political networks built up over the decades since Bill was POTUS.
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Nov 11, 2016 03:42
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Gaunab posted:But why would you choose Trump, who is almost the complete opposite of your chosen candidate, instead of Hillary? To shake things up? I'm sorry but that's just stupid and selfish. I am not talking about the primary supporters of sanders voting for trump, I am saying that amongst some of the white populations that voted for trump in the general election or crucially stayed at home, they would have been more likely to vote for sanders because he did represent change and at least paid lip service to workers who had been screwed over by the system.
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Nov 11, 2016 03:44
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Hey guys this isn't actually USPOL 2.0 so if you can't find a way to relate your dumb Bernie fanfiction to the black experience you can take it somewhere else. And if you're about to respond that we would have won the election if The Blacks had only turned out for Bernie you can go ahead and go gently caress yourself. Edit: Actually JFairfax you can gently caress right off entirely, you've been racist way too many times to be derailing this thread like you own the place.
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Nov 11, 2016 03:44
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Crab Destroyer posted:I guess that is a good question for the thread: What has Hillary Clinton done for black people that made her the obvious choice in the primary? She had a more...public background compared to Sanders. Running in the same race where a dark horse candidate like Trump didn't help. Bernie Sanders, to the average black person, came out of nowhere. He seemed like the democratic version of Trump if that makes sense. That's my opinion at least.
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Nov 11, 2016 03:46
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Pollyanna posted:I...don't actually know. I never found out what, exactly, it was. I was just always told black people supported Clinton more than Sanders. ok, you just wandered into the thread, found a question directed at black people, and responded anyway with "I don't know! Nobody ever told me!" let's think about this for a little bit
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Nov 11, 2016 03:45
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The Clintons were actively involved with the black community for decades, and despite modern interpretations, their words and actions in the 90's were actually popular with lots of Black people at the time. Meanwhile Bernie was some white dude from whitesville USA whose initial response to racial issues was a sort of rhetorical shrug. Someone who takes their issues seriously but implements a policy that turns out to suck is better to people than someone perceived as not really giving a gently caress.
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Nov 11, 2016 03:47
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She actually you know campaigned for our vote. When Bernie was you know ignoring Black voters bringing up how the class war would still leave black people lagging. Bernie eventually came around and hell I voted for him in Illinois but yeah. Dexo fucked around with this message at 03:54 on Nov 11, 2016 |
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Nov 11, 2016 03:48
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JFairfax posted:I am not talking about the primary supporters of sanders voting for trump, I am saying that amongst some of the white populations that voted for trump in the general election or crucially stayed at home, they would have been more likely to vote for sanders because he did represent change and at least paid lip service to workers who had been screwed over by the system. I'm sorry Tiny Brontosaurus for continuing to respond to this but again that's still stupid and selfish. Hillary and Bernie pretty much had the same policies give or take a few things. I want change as much as you probably do but the president isn't the end all be all of it.
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Nov 11, 2016 03:57
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Pollyanna posted:I...don't actually know. I never found out what, exactly, it was. I was just always told black people supported Clinton more than Sanders. A lot of black children wouldn't have had healthcare if it wasn't for Hillary Clinton. Dexo posted:She actually you know campaigned for our vote. When Bernie was you know ignoring Black voters bringing up how the class war would still leave black people lagging. That and he couldn't even handle or speak on the racial issues in his own state. Schizotek posted:The Clintons were actively involved with the black community for decades, and despite modern interpretations, their words and actions in the 90's were actually popular with lots of Black people at the time. Meanwhile Bernie was some white dude from whitesville USA whose initial response to racial issues was a sort of rhetorical shrug. Also yes. A lot of these 20-30 year old black folks yelling "SUPERPREDATORS" didn't grow up in the fuckin projects and didn't see these cats throwing kids off the buildings for not joining a gang or joining a different gang, and it was a LOT of their parents calling them super predators as well. For as bad people try to make places like Chicago and Baltimore today, it was WAY WAY loving worse in the early and mid 90s, and a lot of them have no concept of that. They weren't around when gangs rolled deeper than the police. They weren't around when crackheads roamed the streets at 10pm like The Walking Dead zombies. They weren't around when shootouts were happening outside of schools and project buildings like every day.
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Nov 11, 2016 04:00
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This wasn't an election won on economic anxiety. Every white economic bracket voted for trump. Bernie would have been washed the second Trump got his crowd to start hating the "Global Jew Conspiracy"
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Nov 11, 2016 04:01
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I've read a lot that it's Hillary and her campaign's fault for not motivating people enough to go out and vote. But that's being too lenient on the people who didn't vote. Whatever reason people had for not voting, whether it be personal dislike for Hillary or disagreement with her policies, they hosed everything up for people who aren't white. This was anticipated to be America pushing back against the wave of white nationalism that's been sweeping the West. But I guess racism, sexism, and bigotry aren't important enough issues to vote against.
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Nov 11, 2016 04:10
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BRAKE FOR MOOSE posted:ok, you just wandered into the thread, found a question directed at black people, and responded anyway with "I don't know! Nobody ever told me!" Maybe they are a black person and that's why they responded to a question directed at black people? The answer feels common among black millennials, and I know I've used it myself. Why do black people like Hillary Clinton? I don't know! Nobody ever told me! These helped, thanks. Crab Destroyer fucked around with this message at 04:25 on Nov 11, 2016 |
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Nov 11, 2016 04:11
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Crab Destroyer posted:She consistently did better with minorities over the age of 30. Hillary Clinton was going undercover to understand and help stop segregation in the 70s. http://mobile.nytimes.com/2015/12/28/us/politics/how-hillary-clinton-went-undercover-to-examine-race-in-education.html She helped millions of black children get healthcare. She and Bill Clinton were two of the few politicians who tried to address our concerns with gang violence. The "super predators" out of context quote and mass incarceration comes from that. What they were doing and saying at the time was with the support of a lot of black people. She hasn't been perfect, but she has tried to help us for decades. I remember admiring her a lot as a kid. Still do to this day. I was glad to vote for her. Bernie, on the other hand, is a Johnny Come Lately for a lot of us. He marched with MLK once, but what did he do to help us after that? His record on Civil Rights was sparse, and the dismissal of our concerns about racism as "identity politics" that were not as important as "economic anxieties" turned a lot of us off.
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Nov 11, 2016 04:19
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Morby posted:Hillary Clinton was going undercover to understand and help stop segregation in the 70s. Especially the last part. He was trying to appeal to the rust belt demographic that went for Trump to the detriment of core Democrats, and that's why he couldn't pick up and reliable minority voting blocks. "But he let BLM on stage with him!" And Hillary got millions of yall black asses healthcare as kids. Guess which one is more important?
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Nov 11, 2016 04:30
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I can speak to Hillary's record and why she is generally regarded favorably by the black community because it was my lived experience. Lots of these young kids today weren't born or do not remember the 90s. And the "super predator" comment looks terrible out of context. Trump supporters have asked me how I could support Hillary after that comment which is just LOL.
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Nov 11, 2016 04:40
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The Superpredator thing could be cleared up with ten minutes of research, too. I was a kid throughout most of the 90s and had no idea what the real context of that quote was until I looked into it. Given what my mom and many of my family members went through in Chicago, it made a good amount of sense. I hate that people take things at such face value but then again that explains American politics in a sentence.
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Nov 11, 2016 04:45
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