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Lastgirl
Sep 7, 1997


Good Morning!
Sunday Morning!

Al! posted:

turns out hate won, congratulations you were right!!!!!

c'est la vie~ :kiss:


e: snipe

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Pener Kropoopkin
Jan 30, 2013

Bass Bottles posted:

Elizabeth Warren is cool and good, it seems like she's trying to maneuver to get herself and her people in control of the party, and imo people should be excited and supportive of that.

I really really want her for 2020.

We already have a better alternative in the form of Elliot Smith. Warren shouldn't be thrown out with the bathwater, but being open to Dean right now is dumb. Dean is compromised.

Venom Snake
Feb 19, 2014

by Nyc_Tattoo

Vox Nihili posted:

Spoken like someone who has literally never once spoken to a factory worker.

Your not wrong. What I know about factory work is high tech stuff. I grew up in D.C. My family works for the government bureaucracy, defense companies, and tech. Out west they work in wild life preservation. I made this thread to look at why we lost and part of that is you had to many people like me who did not understand what life is really like on the bottom in rural midwest america.

Sheng-Ji Yang
Mar 5, 2014


Bass Bottles posted:

Elizabeth Warren is cool and good, it seems like she's trying to maneuver to get herself and her people in control of the party, and imo people should be excited and supportive of that.

I really really want her for 2020.

yeah warrens comments are fine imo. let bernie be the firebrand for now

Oh Snapple!
Dec 27, 2005

SpRahl posted:

Hate to be that guy but who is Corey Booker and why should I be worried about him being the next darling of the party?

To build a little further on what neeksy said, he said that Obama's attacks on Bain Capital were "nauseating."

Al!
Apr 2, 2010

:coolspot::coolspot::coolspot::coolspot::coolspot:

Lastgirl posted:

c'est la vie~ :kiss:


e: snipe

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TnwU2iMRUqA

Nonsense
Jan 26, 2007

Bass Bottles posted:

Elizabeth Warren is cool and good, it seems like she's trying to maneuver to get herself and her people in control of the party, and imo people should be excited and supportive of that.

I really really want her for 2020.

There's a lot going on in the background right now. I think this needs to be interpreted by her as a challenge to Trump not a fig leaf. There is not much room for Trump to get around his party and try and do progressive things. There will be blowback from Republicans and NeverTrump Dems.

It will be interesting to see what the 2018 season looks like because whatever it is holy poo poo lol

crazy cloud
Nov 7, 2012

by Cyrano4747
Lipstick Apathy

Venom Snake posted:

We on the left are going to need to put anti-nuclear people through the wringer no matter how good they are because it's not justifiable in 2016 to be scared of nuclear plants. It's one of the few green solutions to powering cities were solar and wind cannot.

*glowing orange fukushima kelp washes up on the west coast*

yeah stfu about nuclear power being garbage you hippie crystal huggers!! Black swan events like 7.0 earthquakes never happen so why plan for em lets just split them atoms

Pener Kropoopkin
Jan 30, 2013

Al! posted:

turns out hate won, congratulations you were right!!!!!

http://exiledonline.com/we-the-spiteful/

quote:

But the left should see this as an opportunity. It doesn’t take a rocket scientist—or even a marketing whiz– to imagine how the left could tap into all that spite, envy, and petty malice. It’s right there in front of all of our faces. We can use spite to reform this wrecked country! After all, the spite we want to arouse is absolutely legit, totally justified and in fact way overdue! Why is the left so wobbly-kneed about bringing up the obvious? It’s about time the American people started to feel the anger and bitterness they should be feeling toward the people who’ve robbed and suckered them all these years!

All we have to do is drive home the obvious to Americans:

There’s a class war going on, like Warren Buffett says, and they’re kicking your asses every time and laughing all the way to the bailed-out bank—just in time for the bank to foreclose on your house! Americans don’t have tea parties, we have bar-b-ques for gently caress’s sake, and we drink Coke or beer. “Tea Party”—what’s next, the “Vienna Ball” protest movement? Hundreds of thousands of “Viennaballers” in Mozart costumes hitting the streets demanding hereditary titles for our billionaires? Suck up to them all you want to, they’ll still despise you. They have yachts and airplanes and mansions all over the world and children who will never see a bill or worry about a single thing beyond remembering their servants’ names– and it’s all thanks to robbing you and your family blind. No poo poo you’re angry! You have every reason to be angry!

Wake up and smell the spite—or choke on it. There’s no other choice. It’s not going away.

Bass Bottles
Jan 14, 2006

BOSS BATTLES DID NOTHING WRONG

Pener Kropoopkin posted:

We already have a better alternative in the form of Elliot Smith. Warren shouldn't be thrown out with the bathwater, but being open to Dean right now is dumb. Dean is compromised.

She doesn't want to be DNC chair, though, and she's supporting Elliot Smith for it!! That article put the wrong thing in the headline.

Pener Kropoopkin
Jan 30, 2013

Bass Bottles posted:

She doesn't want to be DNC chair, though, and she's supporting Elliot Smith for it!! That article put the wrong thing in the headline.

Ok cool. :cool:

ClassActionFursuit
Mar 15, 2006

Vox Nihili posted:

Spoken like someone who has literally never once spoken to a factory worker.

Or, and this is going to sound insane, someone who's worked in a factory. Apparently to Venom Snake, that's akin to petting a unicorn. Something that literally cannot be imagined.

Sheng-Ji Yang
Mar 5, 2014


Pener Kropoopkin posted:

We already have a better alternative in the form of Elliot Smith. Warren shouldn't be thrown out with the bathwater, but being open to Dean right now is dumb. Dean is compromised.

maybe i interpreted it wrong but her statement came off dismissive as gently caress to Dean. Saying hes just "fine" is not a lot of openness.

Al!
Apr 2, 2010

:coolspot::coolspot::coolspot::coolspot::coolspot:

Pener Kropoopkin posted:

We already have a better alternative in the form of Elliot Smith. Warren shouldn't be thrown out with the bathwater, but being open to Dean right now is dumb. Dean is compromised.

i loved (checks notes) miss misery? that can't be right i gotta have a deeper cut than that

Neeksy
Mar 29, 2007

Hej min vän, hur står det till?
Does nobody here know what a 21st century factory in Japan or Europe looks like? Because holy poo poo they aren't all some weird Dickensian nightmare or scale diorama of Upton Sinclair's "The Jungle". It is entirely possible for manufacturing to be good jobs if managed right, and there should exist many forms of labor that are valued in spite of not requiring higher education.

The liberal answer of "education!" to solve all these problems is a part of why workers feel condescended to, as if manual labor or service work should be this horrible thing people need to avoid on principle, rather than important things that run a functioning economy and need better conditions and pay.

Fidel Cuckstro
Jul 2, 2007

IMHO Warren would be a bad choice for a Presidential run because I think she fits that problem a lot of politicians have of using 100 words to say what could be said in 10, but I think she should have a home so long as she's willing to call Jamie Dimon a piece of poo poo on a regular basis, as all politicians should.

Al!
Apr 2, 2010

:coolspot::coolspot::coolspot::coolspot::coolspot:

uhhh duhhhh!!! how long have i been telling u people this!!!!!!!!

Vox Nihili
May 28, 2008

LastInLine posted:

Or, and this is going to sound insane, someone who's worked in a factory. Apparently to Venom Snake, that's akin to petting a unicorn. Something that literally cannot be imagined.

it's part of the neolib message: "those jobs are gone and never coming back, learn something new"

how does that play with actual factory workers? warehouse workers? truckers? do 40 y/o men and women want to hear about how theyre toast and should either learn a new vocation or die out? it's a downright LIBERTARIAN message

Venom Snake
Feb 19, 2014

by Nyc_Tattoo

Pener Kropoopkin posted:

Those towns are dead because they were abandoned by market forces, and your solution is to just push them into relocation. Why not bring in a government-run business which can give their community new purpose like Parsnip said?

Their kids want to go to a far away college and do what they want with their lives. We need to take care of the parents and the kids. The answer to "I want to live my life how I want it" is not "have a job in your home town, good luck". We can do lots of things at once I think.


crazy cloud posted:

*glowing orange fukushima kelp washes up on the west coast*

yeah stfu about nuclear power being garbage you hippie crystal huggers!! Black swan events like 7.0 earthquakes never happen so why plan for em lets just split them atoms

fukushima did like .01% of the damage coal and fracking do on a regular basis. we need some sort of solution and nuclear is excellent for powering cities that have large consistent power draw.

VirtualStranger
Aug 20, 2012

:lol:
http://nypost.com/2016/11/10/chelsea-clinton-being-groomed-to-run-for-congress/

Burn the DNC to the loving ground and salt the Earth

Lastgirl
Sep 7, 1997


Good Morning!
Sunday Morning!

Al! posted:

i loved (checks notes) miss misery? that can't be right i gotta have a deeper cut than that

:chloe:

If ye aint on tha X/O spvn fam idk what tae say

Bass Bottles
Jan 14, 2006

BOSS BATTLES DID NOTHING WRONG
Wait that dudes name isn't Elliot smith is it


That's the singer

Lol yeah I got confused

Vox Nihili
May 28, 2008

yeah we already saw that one, lol

Venom Snake
Feb 19, 2014

by Nyc_Tattoo

LastInLine posted:

Or, and this is going to sound insane, someone who's worked in a factory. Apparently to Venom Snake, that's akin to petting a unicorn. Something that literally cannot be imagined.


Venom Snake posted:

Your not wrong. What I know about factory work is high tech stuff. I grew up in D.C. My family works for the government bureaucracy, defense companies, and tech. Out west they work in wild life preservation. I made this thread to look at why we lost and part of that is you had to many people like me who did not understand what life is really like on the bottom in rural midwest america.

Fiction
Apr 28, 2011

Larry Parrish posted:

Maybe I'm alone in this but I don't think coastal middle class democrats understand the struggle, except maybe gays since that's a minority that tends to cross class lines.

Do you think only gay peoples cross class lines.

DEEP STATE PLOT
Aug 13, 2008

Yes...Ha ha ha...YES!



Bass Bottles posted:

Elizabeth Warren is cool and good, it seems like she's trying to maneuver to get herself and her people in control of the party, and imo people should be excited and supportive of that.

I really really want her for 2020.

yeah maybe, i'm just so frustrated with the dems right now it's prolly clouding my judgement.

Neeksy
Mar 29, 2007

Hej min vän, hur står det till?

Slime Bro Helpdesk posted:

IMHO Warren would be a bad choice for a Presidential run because I think she fits that problem a lot of politicians have of using 100 words to say what could be said in 10, but I think she should have a home so long as she's willing to call Jamie Dimon a piece of poo poo on a regular basis, as all politicians should.

On the other hand, she is much better at coming across as someone who genuinely gives a poo poo about people who are hosed over. Clinton, no matter what vague rhetoric she gave about a progressive agenda, could never escape her history, endorsements, and associations with the powerful forces that have inflicted pain domestically and abroad.

Pener Kropoopkin
Jan 30, 2013

Venom Snake posted:

Their kids want to go to a far away college and do what they want with their lives. We need to take care of the parents and the kids. The answer to "I want to live my life how I want it" is not "have a job in your home town, good luck". We can do lots of things at once I think.

You can take care of all of this without encouraging people to abandon their homes, lmao, that's the whole point we've been telling you every single time. jfc.

Al!
Apr 2, 2010

:coolspot::coolspot::coolspot::coolspot::coolspot:

Lastgirl posted:

:chloe:

If ye aint on tha X/O spvn fam idk what tae say

this is probably the best elliott smith song tho its not my favorite

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DCZbnvzRUjQ

Bass Bottles
Jan 14, 2006

BOSS BATTLES DID NOTHING WRONG

Cubey posted:

yeah maybe, i'm just so frustrated with the dems right now it's prolly clouding my judgement.

Liz will get the engines roaring louder than a Forza edition Xbox one

ClassActionFursuit
Mar 15, 2006

Venom Snake posted:

What? That I think these people are in dire straits and need help now? The four biggest topics I heard when I was campaigning (this was in 2012, mind.) in southern VA (which formerly had large amounts of low tech manufacturing).

1. Education is garbage. Schools closing constantly. Awful graduation rates. Nobody seems to have a future.

2. Dead towns were people cannot get out of because they just don't have the money. Parents sad that their kids cannot go live the life they want and are stuck living in the same house and place forever.

3. Previously you could graduate high school and get a job. That isn't the case anymore.

4. Infrastructure has completely fallen apart.

And your loving answer is "Move away from your friends and family to the crowded coast where everything costs five times as much and there are ten times the people. Also you won't own your own home anymore or have local control over how your town is run. Also gently caress you you piece of poo poo."

Guess what? Those same people who didn't go to college and can't get a job where they are? They're still not going to be college educated in whatever overpriced apartment you stick them in on the coast and they're still not going to get a job that can support their now much higher cost of living.

Al!
Apr 2, 2010

:coolspot::coolspot::coolspot::coolspot::coolspot:

Fiction posted:

Do you think only gay peoples cross class lines.

wish more socialists would, then we might have some progress

Vox Nihili
May 28, 2008

Cubey posted:

yeah maybe, i'm just so frustrated with the dems right now it's prolly clouding my judgement.

it's cool man, we're all working through a lot of frustration right now

the bitcoin of weed
Nov 1, 2014

this article was written 2 years ago and nobody learned anything from any of it

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/where-the-tea-party-rules-20141014

warning: long as hell


e: hell, there's even a great example of a rust belt worker with no prospects retraining into green energy just to try and make something of it and then finding no work anywhere near him. there's your loving angle


quote:

So Smith did something risky: Following a longtime obsession with wind turbines, he decided to switch careers and become a wind technician. In 2011, after training at a technical school in Sweetwater, Texas, he quit his job at Accubuilt. Unable to find work in Ohio, he was hired by AES, a Fortune 200 energy company with a large wind farm in Troy, Pennsylvania, about 470 miles away. Within his first year on the job, he says, he'd learned everything there was to know about fixing wind turbines, as well as many basic business skills. He soon advanced to become an environmental coordinator at the facility, handling emergency management plans.

But living so far from home was untenable. He had four kids by different mothers, ranging in age from two to 24. On Friday evenings, after his shift, he'd make the nine-and-a-half-hour trip back to Ohio. He'd arrive on Saturday morning, stay for a day – ''though I used to say it was 36 hours to make myself feel better'' – and then drive back again. ''You want to keep making that good money, but you don't want to leave,'' he says. ''I didn't say ‘bye' a lot of times. You get tired of saying ‘bye.' ''

Sometimes, Smith would drive all the way back to Pennsylvania too depressed to even listen to music. Back at work, he did his job but otherwise kept to himself. Finally, it all got to be too much for him, and he did what he felt he had to do, realizing it was about as financially unwise as anything he'd ever done: He left his job and moved back to Lima to take his chances.

the bitcoin of weed has issued a correction as of 07:52 on Nov 11, 2016

Bass Bottles
Jan 14, 2006

BOSS BATTLES DID NOTHING WRONG
I haven't listened to Elliot smith in forever, what a crime I have made of my life

Lastgirl
Sep 7, 1997


Good Morning!
Sunday Morning!

Al! posted:

this is probably the best elliott smith song tho its not my favorite

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DCZbnvzRUjQ

i see yer condor ave :o:

an i raise ye a Waltz #2 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rxhR_ep90ac

DEEP STATE PLOT
Aug 13, 2008

Yes...Ha ha ha...YES!



Bass Bottles posted:

I haven't listened to Elliot smith in forever, what a crime I have made of my life

i do not recommend listening to elliot smith this week tbh

Bass Bottles
Jan 14, 2006

BOSS BATTLES DID NOTHING WRONG

Cubey posted:

i do not recommend listening to elliot smith this week tbh

I JUST WANT


TO FEEL

Al!
Apr 2, 2010

:coolspot::coolspot::coolspot::coolspot::coolspot:

Bass Bottles posted:

I haven't listened to Elliot smith in forever, what a crime I have made of my life

yeah kind of rediscovered him recently


this is a relevant song
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TgOn7wuC3tk

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Exinos
Mar 1, 2009

OSHA approved squiq

The DNC is working on it.

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