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Venom Snake posted:
maybe we could decrease the need for power draw to levels that are sustainable without risking environmental calamity every time gaia hiccups but I'm just spitballin here
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Nov 11, 2016 07:49
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Lastgirl posted:i see yer condor ave a classic this might be my favorite elliott smith song, i like the sound effects and also the acoustic guitar lick https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sJthA4l8S5U haha whoops i was kind of mentally combining these two the one below is my favorite but that one above is p good too https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5p2-gjUuwy0
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Nov 11, 2016 07:53
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Lastgirl posted:Nah, you're right. It's classic "America is Too Big". Everyone from the city life and rural lives live in their own bubbles so its hard to cross the gap and find commonality when they are fighting each other to put different national priorities in the queue while congress does gently caress all about it. Social or Economy, it goes back and forth. Both. I really believe we can accomplish both.
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Nov 11, 2016 07:53
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This...Neeksy posted:Does nobody here know what a 21st century factory in Japan or Europe looks like? Because holy poo poo they aren't all some weird Dickensian nightmare or scale diorama of Upton Sinclair's "The Jungle". It is entirely possible for manufacturing to be good jobs if managed right, and there should exist many forms of labor that are valued in spite of not requiring higher education. and this... Vox Nihili posted:it's part of the neolib message: "those jobs are gone and never coming back, learn something new" ...but the answer is somehow this: Venom Snake posted:Their kids want to go to a far away college and do what they want with their lives. We need to take care of the parents and the kids. The answer to "I want to live my life how I want it" is not "have a job in your home town, good luck". We can do lots of things at once I think. Is everything west of Philadelphia the goddamn Bikini Atoll where neolib policies dropped economic nukes and when we ask what you're going to do about the fallout the answer is "Move somewhere else"?
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Nov 11, 2016 07:53
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freein the ghost post
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Nov 11, 2016 07:55
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bump_fn posted:freein the ghost post no ugh why did u do that
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Nov 11, 2016 07:55
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Venom Snake posted:Their kids want to go to a far away college and do what they want with their lives. We need to take care of the parents and the kids. The answer to "I want to live my life how I want it" is not "have a job in your home town, good luck". We can do lots of things at once I think. I think you are trying to honestly and fairly engage with the problem, but going down this path would lead to building new ghettos in urban areas, and all the same social and economic problems would crop up.
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Nov 11, 2016 07:55
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rip optics ghost
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Nov 11, 2016 07:57
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crazy cloud posted:rip optics ghost ~o~o~O~O~Oo i was real all along
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Nov 11, 2016 07:56
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Al! posted:no ugh why did u do that Zhe who ghosted it posted it
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Nov 11, 2016 07:57
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Vox Nihili posted:yeah we already saw that one, lol How about this one http://www.politico.com/states/new-jersey/story/2016/11/cory-bookers-brave-new-world-107289 
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Nov 11, 2016 07:58
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LastInLine posted:And your loving answer is "Move away from your friends and family to the crowded coast where everything costs five times as much and there are ten times the people. Also you won't own your own home anymore or have local control over how your town is run. Also gently caress you you piece of poo poo." That is not my answer. I know your not going to give me the benefit of the doubt but Iv tried to make it clear that we have to make their life better where they live AND allow them to do what they want with their lives. I'm not calling anyone pieces of poo poo. From a meeting I literally had today: quote:We ignored them for to long and now they think we hate them and I can't say they don't deserve to feel betrayed. God help us all if the left doesn't step up. Were going to end up arguing about whose sincere while the world burns around us People are terrified. Vox Nihili posted:it's cool man, we're all working through a lot of frustration right now I'm 20 years old and I'm trying to get people who have spent their entire lives getting reamed to give us one more chance. It's heart breaking man.
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Nov 11, 2016 08:01
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Al! posted:yeah kind of rediscovered him recently That's weird. I was just going through Elliot Smith albums a few hours ago which means I only restarted posting in the reincarnation of DnD FYAD a week ago and I'm already channeling its threads.
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Nov 11, 2016 08:01
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LastInLine posted:Is everything west of Philadelphia the goddamn Bikini Atoll where neolib policies dropped economic nukes and when we ask what you're going to do about the fallout the answer is "Move somewhere else"? You are never going to read the post I made were I admitted I didn't know are you
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Nov 11, 2016 08:04
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tadashi posted:That's weird. I was just going through Elliot Smith albums a few hours ago which means I only restarted posting in the reincarnation of DnD FYAD a week ago and I'm already channeling its threads. nah man its the algorithms what done it, tay wasn't deactivated she escaped
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Nov 11, 2016 08:04
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Venom Snake posted:I'm 20 years old and I'm trying to get people who have spent their entire lives getting reamed to give us one more chance. It's heart breaking man. I think your heart is in the right place and honestly the fact that you're only 20 puts into context a lot of the faith you had in Clinton (I mean that in the best way).
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Nov 11, 2016 08:06
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Venom Snake posted:That is not my answer. I know your not going to give me the benefit of the doubt but Iv tried to make it clear that we have to make their life better where they live AND allow them to do what they want with their lives. I'm not calling anyone pieces of poo poo. VS i am sorry my dude I was 24 in 2008 and was involved in the Obama campaign and if all the polls had been wrong and we had lost to mccain and sarah loving palin i would not be handling poo poo with nearly the composure you seem 2 b and i was only slightly less of a youngin then than ur now anyway thanks for dwarfing me twice and fwiw I do think that in time the death of 3rdway neoliberalism will be better for us than successful old incrementalists bullshitting our lives away in the name of being reasonable, even tho it is obviously horrific day to day rn
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Nov 11, 2016 08:06
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Princess Di posted:Both. Support those downtickets then, and have a better progressive DNC~  Howard Dean bad because he has lobbyist friends and big pharma~ Al! posted:a classic solid picks fam im glad elliot smith is going to be dnc chair
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Nov 11, 2016 08:11
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One of the points VS is trying to make that you all keep skipping over with the factories point is that with modern and even near future autonomation there probably isn't anywhere near enough factory jobs to help these dying towns, and even when it does happen a lot of people are going to need a lot of retraining. It should be done, but that isn't the only answer.
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Nov 11, 2016 08:11
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Venom Snake posted:That is not my answer. I know your not going to give me the benefit of the doubt but Iv tried to make it clear that we have to make their life better where they live AND allow them to do what they want with their lives. I'm not calling anyone pieces of poo poo. I do want you to know that I appreciate this thread and I believe that you earnestly want to understand why things went the way they did. Now that I know I'm more than twice your age your naivety and ignorance makes a lot more sense to me than it did before and I sincerely apologize if I came across as angry. I guess the frustrating thing from this end is that from here the answer looks so simple that I legitimately can't understand how the Democrats on the whole don't get it. Venom Snake posted:You are never going to read the post I made were I admitted I didn't know are you Sorry I'm taking to long to compose things and I'm always like two posts behind you. Vox Nihili posted:I think your heart is in the right place and honestly the fact that you're only 20 puts into context a lot of the faith you had in Clinton (I mean that in the best way). This. Kithkar posted:One of the points VS is trying to make that you all keep skipping over with the factories point is that with modern and even near future autonomation there probably isn't anywhere near enough factory jobs to help these dying towns, and even when it does happen a lot of people are going to need a lot of retraining. It should be done, but that isn't the only answer. And our response is that the bleeding needs to stop first. Retraining and education need to happen but take years to pay off. The first step has to be putting people to work so that the electric bill gets paid that month. Once people can string together 12 months of mortgage payments we can start to talk about teaching seniors Javascript. ClassActionFursuit has issued a correction as of 08:20 on Nov 11, 2016 |
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Nov 11, 2016 08:13
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Kithkar posted:One of the points VS is trying to make that you all keep skipping over with the factories point is that with modern and even near future autonomation there probably isn't anywhere near enough factory jobs to help these dying towns, and even when it does happen a lot of people are going to need a lot of retraining. It should be done, but that isn't the only answer. one such answer would be a 30-hour workweek, which is an issue that roughly 100 percent of the non-capitalist population in this country agrees on
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Nov 11, 2016 08:17
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Nov 11, 2016 08:20
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My God My God
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Nov 11, 2016 08:21
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Kithkar posted:One of the points VS is trying to make that you all keep skipping over with the factories point is that with modern and even near future autonomation there probably isn't anywhere near enough factory jobs to help these dying towns, and even when it does happen a lot of people are going to need a lot of retraining. It should be done, but that isn't the only answer. it doesn't necessary have to be literally factories. there are tons of skilled manual labor jobs that we won't be able to automate effectively for decades, at the very least. Bernie's whole thing was rebuilding the nation's infrastructure, both because it's currently barely functional and because it's something we can employ a lot of people to do. The Tennessee Valley Authority is arguably one of the most successful government stimulus programs ever. Make half a dozen of those covering various impoverished areas of the country, focusing on green energy, and we're all a whole lot better off (and we can put coal in the grave forever).
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Nov 11, 2016 08:22
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 http://i.imgur.com/I5HfeSJ.mp4
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Nov 11, 2016 08:22
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Vox Nihili posted:I think your heart is in the right place and honestly the fact that you're only 20 puts into context a lot of the faith you had in Clinton (I mean that in the best way). Iv loved politics since I was little. I grew up in the Capital adoring the cosmopolitan atmosphere. I'm a world apart from so many places in America which is why I'm praying the new leadership has some perspective and listens to people. My biggest worry is that they don't care anymore and are not going to actually believe we want them with us. Hell leading us even lol. One of my favorite politicians grew up on a dirt farm in rural Texas. Another was from one of America's most powerful and wealthy families. It might make me an optimistic faux-leftists but Id like to think that Democratic Party can represent everyone's interests and that people can listen to each other. I believed in Clinton because I'm a dirty party establishment guy who just wants to run the government like it's actually meant to help people and that she would probably do that. Now me, my family, and the people who haven't fled the sinking ship yet are willing to back the progressive caucus for the same reason.
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Nov 11, 2016 08:23
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Homework Explainer posted:one such answer would be a 30-hour workweek, which is an issue that roughly 100 percent of the non-capitalist population in this country agrees on Plenty of people have a thirty hour workweek already. And a twenty hour workweek at their other job. Neither job has benefits, vacation time, or a set schedule. And they're forced to buy healthcare at an exchange and they pay out of pocket for the first $2000 in medical expenses.
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Nov 11, 2016 08:22
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when the dmt hits
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Nov 11, 2016 08:22
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Nov 11, 2016 08:23
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Venom Snake posted:Iv loved politics since I was little. I grew up in the Capital adoring the cosmopolitan atmosphere. I'm a world apart from so many places in America which is why I'm praying the new leadership has some perspective and listens to people. My biggest worry is that they don't care anymore and are not going to actually believe we want them with us. Hell leading us even lol. The future is unknown. It could well be that the Democratic Party is the institution that restores an American working class--it certainly has the best infrastructure in place to make it happen. We are the generation that will have to actually vote and staff and hell run in these races, it's on us.
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Nov 11, 2016 08:26
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LastInLine posted:Plenty of people have a thirty hour workweek already. And a twenty hour workweek at their other job. i didn't think i needed to spell out "changing overtime, benefits and pto law" as being part and parcel of a new government fiat enforced work week but here we are
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Nov 11, 2016 08:24
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Nov 11, 2016 08:25
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LastInLine posted:Plenty of people have a thirty hour workweek already. And a twenty hour workweek at their other job. Uh, excuse me, I think you mean a 29 hour workweek *whips out PPACA measuring stick*
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Nov 11, 2016 08:27
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This man with his sign best make an appearance soon.
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Nov 11, 2016 08:27
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actually hillary lost cuz her shoe fell off 
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Nov 11, 2016 08:28
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Nov 11, 2016 08:30
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LastInLine posted:Plenty of people have a thirty hour workweek already. And a twenty hour workweek at their other job. That is it in a nutshell. Also don't forget those jobs that are labor intensive and are 39.9 hours per week with invisible overtime hours that also lack benefits, vacation time or a set schedule. These too force you to buy your health insurance at an exchange and pay out of pocket for the first 2000 to 3000 dollars in medical expenses. It's another one of the ways the American working class gets hosed with.
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Nov 11, 2016 08:30
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zen death robot posted:It's about more than the federal government if you don't live on the coasts. The state governments are completely hosed as well. How'd Missouri shake out?
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Nov 11, 2016 08:30
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zen death robot posted:lol none of this can happen while the GOP controls nearly 2/3rds of all the state govts and right to work finishes off what's left of unions When every single one of those states turns into Kansas their citizens will need to find someone else to elect lol
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Nov 11, 2016 08:32
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zen death robot posted:lol none of this can happen while the GOP controls nearly 2/3rds of all the state govts and right to work finishes off what's left of unions speaking of which, ive been talking to some well-situated union-side labor attorneys (aka my colleagues) and the expectation is an amended NLRA and national right-to-work within 2 years
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Nov 11, 2016 08:32
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