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https://go.berniesanders.com/page/s/keith-ellison-dnc?source=sh161110-tw Show your support for Keith Ellison as DNC chairman.
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Nov 11, 2016 08:46
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Xequecal posted:Maybe they decided that, "Bernie Sanders, except he's a racist" was preferable to, "Mitt Romney, except she's a SJW." lmao if you actually believe either of these things to be even close to true
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Nov 11, 2016 08:46
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kartikeya posted:I'll tell you what I'd like to hear, I'd like to hear one of you shits say something like 'I voted for Hillary Clinton in spite of my bruised ego because I recognized the utter tsunami of poo poo that would be unleashed on the least powerful in our country if Donald Trump won with a Republican Congress and a vacant Supreme Court seat'. Not 'you need to swallow your pride and admit you were wrong and my candidate was better and you lost in part because I didn't feel it was important enough to actually help people'. There were some early fellow Bernie folks who said this in these threads and then said 'Bernie was better' who loving got it. Not many, but some. Yeah me too homie, and then Hillary won my state by 30% and Trump is still president-elect tho sooooo 
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Nov 11, 2016 08:46
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ErIog posted:She won the popular vote and had the VRA not been gutted or had Comey not done his last minute fuckery with Weiner's e-mails she would be president right now. gently caress outta here. https://twitter.com/nate_cohn/status/796789043040239616 https://twitter.com/nate_cohn/status/796789450537861120 https://twitter.com/nate_cohn/status/796846348045848576
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Nov 11, 2016 08:47
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Scent of Worf posted:https://go.berniesanders.com/page/s/keith-ellison-dnc?source=sh161110-tw I will say if the progressive movement chooses POC and LGBT progressives to lead the remodeling of the Democratic Party I will feel much less like the progressive movement will turn and drop identity politics the moment they don't need them anymore. Now voters on the other hand, they're untrustworthy as gently caress.
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Nov 11, 2016 08:49
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negromancer posted:Have you visited the Negrotown thread recently? Might be why if so. No I've posted in this thread twice I think since the election and thats it. The only thing I asked was where could I volunteer or help going forward and this is the title I got. I don't get this place at all sometimes.
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Nov 11, 2016 08:50
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Lightning Knight posted:Interesting. Also lmao gently caress everybody who voted for him and not for Clinton what a bunch of assholes. Hillary Clinton was to the right of Bush on everything except social issues.
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Nov 11, 2016 08:50
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On Terra Firma posted:No I've posted in this thread twice I think since the election and thats it. The only thing I asked was where could I volunteer or help going forward and this is the title I got. I don't get this place at all sometimes. I mean your red text includes "white devil," that's pretty wicked. If It had been half as much text and a decent picture it would be an awesome avatar imo. Actually "there is no reasoning with the white devil, you must strike swiftly" should've been the text because  that's hilarious. Xequecal posted:Hillary Clinton was to the right of Bush on everything except social issues. I wasn't aware Bush ran on doubling the minimum wage and free college, massive infrastructure spending and tax increases, bro.
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Nov 11, 2016 08:50
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Lightning Knight posted:Interesting. Also lmao gently caress everybody who voted for him and not for Clinton what a bunch of assholes. gently caress clinton for assuming people would vote for her instead of doing the hard work to earn it
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Nov 11, 2016 08:50
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Xequecal posted:Hillary Clinton was to the right of Bush on everything except social issues.  Alec Bald Snatch posted:gently caress clinton for assuming people would vote for her instead of doing the hard work to earn it gently caress you for needing your vote against a fascist neonazi movement to be earned.
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Nov 11, 2016 08:51
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RaySmuckles posted:hillary lost. you have no leg to stand on. if things were different they'd be different, but they're not. the reality is the democratic party needs more voters and those voters want different things. be upset all you want. "we need to move forward together" says the guy who strongly advocates factionalism and breaking the party when he doesn't get his way you're lying to yourself. you're saying you want compromise, what you're really saying is "my way or the highway". if you can't even be honest why would you expect the party to cater to you
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Nov 11, 2016 08:50
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Alec Bald Snatch posted:gently caress clinton for assuming people would vote for her instead of doing the hard work to earn it Nah you vote against racism and fascism (but I repeat myself) regardless. I don't understand why this is so hard to understand. Like white leftists, repeat after me: Hillary Clinton was worth voting for over Donald Trump because Donald Trump and his Republican Party are fascists and we must always stand against fascism. This is one of the core tenets of leftism like what the gently caress guys.
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Nov 11, 2016 08:52
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kartikeya posted:I'll tell you what I'd like to hear, I'd like to hear one of you shits say something like 'I voted for Hillary Clinton in spite of my bruised ego because I recognized the utter tsunami of poo poo that would be unleashed on the least powerful in our country if Donald Trump won with a Republican Congress and a vacant Supreme Court seat'. Not 'you need to swallow your pride and admit you were wrong and my candidate was better and you lost in part because I didn't feel it was important enough to actually help people'. There were some early fellow Bernie folks who said this in these threads and then said 'Bernie was better' who loving got it. Not many, but some. Eh, I kind of figured it went without saying. I had just assumed that all of us here who are disappointed voted for Hillary and not Stein or whatever, and yeah, I remember people earlier on the thread largely saying things to this extent as well. I was absolutely a Bernie person who voted for Hillary without reservation. Is there anyone out here who definitively said that they voted Bernie in the primary and but didn't go Clinton in the general? Not meant to be snarky -- not sure if I missed it if so.
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Nov 11, 2016 08:55
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Lightning Knight posted:I mean your red text includes "white devil," that's pretty wicked. Clinton didn't run on any of those things either until she discovered she was having a hard time putting Sanders away and decided she needed to adopt some of his stances to try and get the disillusioned Sanders voters on board.
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Nov 11, 2016 08:55
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Lightning Knight posted:Nah you vote against racism and fascism (but I repeat myself) regardless. I don't understand why this is so hard to understand. No but see Clinton didn't cater enough to meeeeee please pay attention to my needs first, I'm more important, what do you mean I'm not a real progressive? E: also if you're a Bernie "supporter" but sat out or voted not Clinton you should realize you basically spit in his face and set back the progress he was fighting for in the primary and fought to get included in the party platform. PKJC fucked around with this message at 08:57 on Nov 11, 2016 |
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Nov 11, 2016 08:55
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Lightning Knight posted:Nah you vote against racism and fascism (but I repeat myself) regardless. I don't understand why this is so hard to understand. one of the core tenets of leftism is cutting off your nose to spite your face "i care deeply about income inequaltiy" says the young white socialist "and i'd rather see the guy who swears to cut business and income taxes on the wealthy rather than bend the knee to an incrementalist candidate with a mildly progressive agenda" Xequecal posted:decided she needed to adopt some of his stances to try and get the disillusioned Sanders voters on board. yeah this is how big tent parties work except when people cry about how their dicks aren't being sucked hard enough so they'd rather vote for stein even if it means the candidate they ostensibly oppose gaining office it's the same mentality as people who cut in line because their time is more important than everyone else's. there's little to be gained from bending over for people who refuse to play by the rules boner confessor fucked around with this message at 08:57 on Nov 11, 2016 |
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Nov 11, 2016 08:54
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Lightning Knight posted:Nah you vote against racism and fascism (but I repeat myself) regardless. I don't understand why this is so hard to understand. lol this is absolutely not one of the core tenets of leftism, there are leftist fascists all over the place for one, and for two, what are the core tenets of leftism
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Nov 11, 2016 08:58
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Just for the record, I went out and stood in line to vote for Hillary as soon as the clock hit 6 AM. She lost and now I want real progressives to lead the party. Going from Clinton to Howard loving Dean is not the answer.
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Nov 11, 2016 08:58
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crazy cloud posted:for two, what are the core tenets of leftism historically, bickering about theory rather than enacting useful policy (or preventing bad policy from being enacted)
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Nov 11, 2016 08:58
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boner confessor posted:historically, bickering about theory rather than enacting useful policy (or preventing bad policy from being enacted)
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Nov 11, 2016 09:00
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Xequecal posted:Clinton didn't run on any of those things either until she discovered she was having a hard time putting Sanders away and decided she needed to adopt some of his stances to try and get the disillusioned Sanders voters on board. Hillary's original platform was still well to the left of any current or recent Republican like how is this even a discussion we're having? crazy cloud posted:lol this is absolutely not one of the core tenets of leftism, there are leftist fascists all over the place for one, and for two, what are the core tenets of leftism You don't know what fascism is bro. Scent of Worf posted:Just for the record, I went out and stood in line to vote for Hillary as soon as the clock hit 6 AM. Agreed. I just don't want only white progressives to run the party.
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Nov 11, 2016 09:00
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crazy cloud posted:there are leftist fascists all over the place for one, 
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Nov 11, 2016 09:02
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Lightning Knight posted:Nah you vote against racism and fascism (but I repeat myself) regardless. I don't understand why this is so hard to understand. that's not what i'm talking about at all she didn't bother campaigning outside cities at all. even bill raised the question why she was completely conceding everything but urban areas and was told to sit down and shut up in a state like nc where a third of the population is rural including a million rural blacks that's completely insane and when i say campaign i don't mean just holding rallies i mean opening offices and placing paid staff she had less than half the physical presence obama did and somehow it's a surprise she lost Alec Bald Snatch fucked around with this message at 09:04 on Nov 11, 2016 |
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Nov 11, 2016 09:02
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Xequecal posted:Hillary Clinton was to the right of Bush on everything except social issues. Aaaahahahahahahaha Go home, Xequecal, you're drunk. Suckthemonkey posted:Eh, I kind of figured it went without saying. I had just assumed that all of us here who are disappointed voted for Hillary and not Stein or whatever, and yeah, I remember people earlier on the thread largely saying things to this extent as well. I was absolutely a Bernie person who voted for Hillary without reservation. Is there anyone out here who definitively said that they voted Bernie in the primary and but didn't go Clinton in the general? Not meant to be snarky -- not sure if I missed it if so. Yeah, a number of them, but I am the worst person in the world at remembering names. You'd have to go crawling back through several lovely threads for the past few days to find them all. One of them called me subhuman for voting for Hillary in the general though  .
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Nov 11, 2016 09:03
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Alec Bald Snatch posted:that's not what i'm talking about at all I will not contend that the Clinton campaign massively failed to campaign in the right places and massively misjudged the state of the race. This isn't exclusively their fault, but is still true.
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Nov 11, 2016 09:02
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zh1 posted:do any of you people have even a slight bit of self-awareness? i mean you're having this big debate about What Went Wrong and if you just looked in the mirror you'd understand The problem is that they'd rather laugh at the one guy that called both the GOP Primary and the General in advance- than take what he had to say seriously. After all, it's not like a majority of this forum have ever worked in a factory/fishing boat/mill for ten or twenty or forty years- only to watch university educated white collar MBAs destroy their livelihood in front of them, and ship it to foreign countries where labor costs, safety and environmental regulations are more like suggestions than laws. And then watch as the Dems not only not give a gently caress, but support the TPP to rub it in, and tell the working class, "If you don't vote you're no better than the Orange Man himself." Mister Facetious fucked around with this message at 09:08 on Nov 11, 2016 |
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Nov 11, 2016 09:04
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ErIog posted:Bernie couldn't even win over a majority of Democrats. I just want to respond to this because it keeps getting repeated. Bernie was a no-name congressman at the start of the primary; no one knew who he was until halfway through and he almost beat the fundraising, name recognition, and celebrity of Clinton anyway. If primary voting started in March I think we'd be talking about Trump vs Sanders.
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Nov 11, 2016 09:04
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Scent of Worf posted:gently caress outta here. "There can always be better turnout." <--this is why I want to throw media statisticians into the ocean. Parse the electorate that showed up all you like. Do not handwave away important poo poo like the size of the electorate that showed up or the way the system works. She led the popular vote count by millions of votes. If a couple hundred of thousand of those millions lived in a few key places then she would be president. I understand that's just how the system works and therefore Donald Trump is president. I understand the consequences of that are very dire. It doesn't mean, though, that Hillary Clinton made any massive mistakes like people are trying to tag her with. The election ended up being very close. If this had been a blowout and Trump had won the popular vote and the EC and it was pretty clear then I would fine admitting Hillary was a bad candidate. With an election this close, though, I just don't have a lot of patience for the people who want to lay this entirely at the feet of the candidate. It's close enough to where outside factors could have tipped it either way, and it turned out the outside factors tipped it toward Trump. Like nobody is running around saying the Cleveland Indians are a baseball team full of amateurs that had no business being in the World Series because they lost to the Cubs. People understand there's a lot of variance in baseball. Things happen. It went to extra innings in game 7. It was very close. This to me feels like the equivalent of "Cleveland had no business even being in the series, it should have been <insert pet team> and they would have won for sure because <factors only known through hindsight>." ErIog fucked around with this message at 09:05 on Nov 11, 2016 |
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Nov 11, 2016 09:03
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PKJC posted:No but see Clinton didn't cater enough to meeeeee please pay attention to my needs first, I'm more important, what do you mean I'm not a real progressive? I don't care about her not appealing to all of my pet issues. I'm a grad student in a deep blue state -- no way I'm not voting for her. I care when she's not appealing to major issues that are pretty much of the top of the list for large swaths of people who, to varying extents, have long made up the bedrock of the Democratic party. I care because those people are very different than me and have very different concerns than I do. They care about their own well-being and they don't care if anyone not in their circle gets hosed over for the promise that it gets improved. They, being people (not just whites, not just uneducated American voters, but all people by and large), care about themselves above all else. If we lose them, we get Trump. That's why I care about them feeling like they have a stake in voting for Hillary. If we lose them, we lose period.
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Nov 11, 2016 09:05
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^ kiiinda sick of this weird fatalistic view that it's somehow impossible for a person to take a principled stand in their voting and say "no, I will not turn a blind eye to the suffering of others, and I will not be complicit in bigotry even if it makes things more difficult for me in the short term."Scent of Worf posted:Just for the record, I went out and stood in line to vote for Hillary as soon as the clock hit 6 AM.  like I get that Dean may have been good at his job but new blood is vital at a time like this. Ellison as chair is sounding p good to me. Warren/Sanders 2020 if we want to talk dream ticket imo.
PKJC fucked around with this message at 09:12 on Nov 11, 2016 |
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Nov 11, 2016 09:06
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Suckthemonkey posted:I care when she's not appealing to major issues that are pretty much of the top of the list for large swaths of people who, to varying extents, have long made up the bedrock of the Democratic party. She did, though, but nobody paid attention. Media never bothered to cover it and she never lampshaded it with, "YO THIS IS FOR ALL YOU WHITE PEOPLE OUT THERE," like Trump did so they never noticed. Trump talked directly to them using his powers of white ethno-nationalism and they were pretty okay with racist rhetoric so they decided to vote for him instead of her. If this were in any way about actual policy she would have stomped the gently caress out of him. Seeing as how she had detailed policies built to help lots of different people including white people hurt by global trade while Trump just had #MAGA and the wall. ErIog fucked around with this message at 09:10 on Nov 11, 2016 |
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Nov 11, 2016 09:07
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Mister Macys posted:After all, it's not like a majority of this forum have ever worked in a factory/fishing boat/mill for ten or twenty or forty years- only to watch university educated white collar MBAs destroy their livelihood in front of them, and ship it to foreign countries where labor costs, safety and environmental regulations are more like suggestions than laws. The problem isn't that these people need help, the problem is that instead of concluding that they should eat the rich, they concluded they should blame the poor foreigners who "stole their jobs."
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Nov 11, 2016 09:09
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Mister Macys posted:After all, it's not like a majority of this forum have ever worked in a factory/fishing boat/mill for ten or twenty or forty years- only to watch university educated white collar MBAs destroy their livelihood in front of them, and ship it to foreign countries where labor costs, safety and environmental regulations are more like suggestions than laws. this is a false narrative, though. outsourcing hasn't had nearly as much impact on industrial employment as technology has. if you look at the coal industry, a lot of the job loss is through mechanization and mine closures is due to inability to compete with natural gas (from fracking) or increased oil output (from new offshore drilling techniques). its way easy to blame mexicans domestic or abroad from stealing your jobs because joe miner likes having a fancier coalface driller that makes his job easier, even if it does cause some dudes from his crew to be quietly let go (they were lazy drunks anyway) people who bitch about free trade killing jobs generally also like getting cheap as poo poo household goods from wal-mart. the remedy is to implement a robust social safety net, and gee whiz guess who blocked that.... although dems do share some of the blame for pushing the "everyone needs a college degree" myth boner confessor fucked around with this message at 09:12 on Nov 11, 2016 |
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Nov 11, 2016 09:09
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PKJC posted:
Blehhhh... Warren would be a horrible Presidential candidate. She's an excellent Senator because she can blend when she needs to and come out to bite a chunk out of bankers when she needs to but in the face of a spotlight she'd get obliterated from orbit. You would never hear the end of "Pocahontas." I don't think Bernie should run again. I think that whoever runs needs to be younger, we need younger candidates to connect to younger voters. Young people - not even 18-25 but up to 35 - will turn out for a young, cool candidate. They don't care as much for the olds that make up our party leadership. Ellison is a good pick precisely because he's young, he's left-wing, and he's not a stuffy white dude.
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Nov 11, 2016 09:12
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ErIog posted:She did, though, but nobody paid attention. Media never bothered to cover it and she never lampshaded it with, "YO THIS IS FOR ALL YOU WHITE PEOPLE OUT THERE," like Trump did so they never noticed. Of all his crazy bugfuck "ideas" he better build that loving wall.
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Nov 11, 2016 09:14
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boner confessor posted:although dems do share some of the blame for pushing the "everyone needs a college degree" myth This is GOP framing. I thought most of the higher ed. for all proposals from the Dem side included stuff like trade schools?
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Nov 11, 2016 09:15
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boner confessor posted:this is a false narrative, though. outsourcing hasn't had nearly as much impact on industrial employment as technology has. if you look at the coal industry, a lot of the job loss is through mechanization and mine closures is due to inability to compete with natural gas (from fracking) or increased oil output (from new offshore drilling techniques). its way easy to blame mexicans domestic or abroad from stealing your jobs because joe miner likes having a fancier coalface driller that makes his job easier, even if it does cause some dudes from his crew to be quietly let go (they were lazy drunks anyway) Whoooa now partner, telling people that it's executives and shareholders putting workers over a barrel rather than the sinister foreigners taking thurr jerbs, why that's sounding like ~class warfare~ and we don't take kindly to that in these here parts
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Nov 11, 2016 09:14
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Lightning Knight posted:The problem isn't that these people need help, the problem is that instead of concluding that they should eat the rich, they concluded they should blame the poor foreigners who "stole their jobs." Hey guess what, uneducated people are uneducated. The right wing has a well-oiled propaganda machine that spits out repeatable and easy to remember quips. Hillary had real policy but enough people aren't smart enough and/or don't care to sit through a politics class for it to matter. Without simple, concrete ideas with punch (and if possible a scapegoat) the democrats will not be able to win. I really think democrats need to lie to some degree on the campaign trail, the difference being that the lies would be in service of bettering people's lives instead of furthering corruption. I don't see an alternative unless a lot of boomers die and millennials turn out at a 95% rate by next election.
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Nov 11, 2016 09:15
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Mister Macys posted:The problem is that they'd rather laugh at the one guy that called both the GOP Primary and the General in advance- than take what he had to say seriously. quote:https://web.archive.org/web/20060507011645/http:/donaldtrump.trumpuniversity.com/default.asp?item=98255
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Nov 11, 2016 09:15
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Mister Macys posted:The problem is that they'd rather laugh at the one guy that called both the GOP Primary and the General in advance- than take what he had to say seriously. Nah instead they may have encountered other economic hardships and still decided not to vote for loving Trump
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