Blowdryer posted:

http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2016/11/14/glenn-beck-tries-out-decency

Glenn Beck is now a blm supporter.

Non Serviam posted:

The United States isn't the only capitalist nation in the world.

Non Serviam posted:

I'm sure I'll hear why every failed Marxist state wasn't a real Marxist (because true Scotsmen never get old).

Condiv posted:

that's not true either or we'd still be in feudalism living in pig slop. or we would already be extinct. don't give in to fatalism because of this surprising loss, that only helps trump

Lightning Knight posted:

I mean again I think you are missing my point. All of that is well and good from the perspective of the Democratic Party. That's what they need to do to win elections. But if you personally walk up to me and are like yup, I stayed home because Hillary was a lying corrupt neoliberal (((globalist))) (seriously gently caress that word, stop using it leftists), you're an rear end in a top hat and you deserve to get punched in the face.

Bad Decision Dino posted:

Yes, we have other shining examples of capitalist decency, like the English, the Germans, the Dutch, the Spanish.

jaete posted:

And Finland, Sweden, Norway, Denmark, Germany, Poland, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Greece, Italy, Japan, South Korea,

Maybe as a fun exercise you could complete the list. After doing that, figure out how many wars each of those countries has started in the last 70 years

Bad Decision Dino posted:

*bombs the middle east on and off for 30 year*
DONT WORRY GUYS THIS IS JUST INCIDENTAL

PKJC posted:

VP elect pence wants lgbt people to be extinct sooooooo

Lightning Knight posted:

steinrokkan posted:

Germany, Italy, Japan started wars as anti-capitalist, moralist powers.

Lightning Knight posted:

steinrokkan posted:

To be fair, it's not like the USSR didn't pour their share of gas into the fires in the ME and Africa.

The Soviets were awful, and so are tankies today.

Bad Decision Dino posted:

Yes, we have other shining examples of capitalist decency, like the English, the Germans, the Dutch, the Spanish.

Lightning Knight posted:

Oh in the purely technical sense he's correct because they weren't capitalist and it was more than 70 years ago now I just thought that this was a really funny set of countries to include on that list for that purpose because like, dude, come on.

Kilroy posted:

Well, okay I see where you're coming from.

But, I don't think this is the attitude that can actually be adopted by the leaders of the party (whoever that even winds up being). Not because it's wrong, but just because you can't really fake not hating people, forever. Democrats won't be able to craft a convincing platform to entice voters that they secretly loathe. They might be able to fool some people, but the inauthenticity will eventually come through and there is just too much at stake. Particularly looking at the 2018 Senate map - the Democrats have their work cut out for them if they're going to squeak out a victory there in 2018.

But yeah, individually sure. Do what you have to do. For my part I am not going to heap shame on my allies, even the ones that hosed up this election. Not only does it depress and demoralize me personally, it doesn't do anything to increase our chances in 2018, and right now that is my highest priority politically.

jaete posted:

Come on what? Do go on.

Those countries between 1946 and 2016 were just as bad as literally Stalin because...?

My argument was that hey you know what, they weren't (and still aren't)

Kilroy posted:

Lightning Knight, it's basically this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w3Ou5uFFn8Q

I get why you're angry, but we need to focus our anger and our fear into something productive and fix this. Blame and recrimination aren't going to solve any problems right now, and we need to start solving problems right loving now. We need to start thinking about 2018 and 2020 and moreover what we can do to limit Trump even between now and then, and we need to get started on it yesterday because our species is facing its greatest episode of existential risk since the Cuban Missile Crisis, maybe greatest ever. And it's not going to just last a few weeks, either.

jaete posted:

And Finland, Sweden, Norway, Denmark, Germany, Poland, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Greece, Italy, Japan, South Korea,

Maybe as a fun exercise you could complete the list. After doing that, figure out how many wars each of those countries has started in the last 70 years

Lightning Knight posted:

So you are just a silly libertarian.

Condiv posted:

how did we reach the point where lgbt people could get married? was it because the absolute worst thing is always guaranteed to happen? we've been dealt a major setback, but if we just accept death then we'll never get what we want. so don't embrace fatalistic garbage and instead work and work hard to reform the democrats into a powerful party that fights for racial, social, and economic justice instead of hiding its positions for fear that the fragile moderate voter will get the vapors

ModernMajorGeneral posted:

Despite being a filthy centrist liberal I am willing to stump for making concessions to the far left at this point because the last time centrist liberals tried to stay the course in the face of a tide of right wing authoritarianism 60 million people died.

Even if the completely worst case scenario of going full Stalin and all the useless idiots such as myself getting purged comes to pass, the USSR was a functioning society for the better part of a century whereas the right wing equivalents turned their countries into smouldering holes in the ground.

Barbe Rouge posted:

For gently caress's sake, Libertarians don't believe in a free market limited by government intervention.

Bad Decision Dino posted:

Poland, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania were part of the Warschaw pact and were communist for most of the past 70 years?
Germany, Italy and Japan took some time off from wars after literally being the axis of evil?
South Korea, you mean Korea were the country was in a civil war, but we didn't like the other side so we enforced a lovely stalemate for the past 60 years?
Finland, Sweden, Norway and Denmark, which are so socialist they are basically communism lite at this point?

steinrokkan posted:

Please not Stalin vs Hitler: The Fanfic Wars again

PKJC posted:

gently caress off. A bunch of pissy so called progressives sold out minorities, again, because they didn't feel catered to hard enough. This is 4 years, minimum, of more children having to stay in the closet because every piece of poo poo who ever bullied a gay or trans person just got legitimized by a large part of the electorate, and those who actually went out and voted Clinton are the only ones not culpable in this. Right now, helping the fake progressives who sat on their asses Tuesday to rebuild their coalition is way down on the list of priorities compared to things like "find somewhere else to live" or "stockpile my hrt drugs as much as I can before I get kicked off my insurance/my insurance decides to stop covering anything related to transitioning"

Lightning Knight posted:

I mean that's not really true. Stupid libertarians don't believe in such things. There's also the right/left libertarian dichotomy. Like you're making me play devil's advocate for libertarians here which is horrible but some of them do believe in free markets limited by government interventions. We just usually call them neoliberals.

Dazzling Addar posted:

i am not an accredited scholar of marxist doctrine but i don't think ol' karl really felt that subjugation and oppression were intrinsic to his model of post capitalist societies. i think that may have been added in later by unscrupulous individuals. if we are to throw out systems of government based on potential for misuse by the power hungry and ne'erdowells then we might as well just throw up our hands and eat tree bark for the next two thousand years because goodness knows none of the other options have worked out for us.

Barbe Rouge posted:

The dude isn't a Libertarian, he's a Social Democrat.

PKJC posted:

gently caress off. A bunch of pissy so called progressives sold out minorities, again, because they didn't feel catered to hard enough. This is 4 years, minimum, of more children having to stay in the closet because every piece of poo poo who ever bullied a gay or trans person just got legitimized by a large part of the electorate, and those who actually went out and voted Clinton are the only ones not culpable in this. Right now, helping the fake progressives who sat on their asses Tuesday to rebuild their coalition is way down on the list of priorities compared to things like "find somewhere else to live" or "stockpile my hrt drugs as much as I can before I get kicked off my insurance/my insurance decides to stop covering anything related to transitioning"

Non Serviam posted:

We are officially calling for a USSR like government now. Liberal Goons are the best when it comes to meltdowns.

Dazzling Addar posted:

i am not an accredited scholar of marxist doctrine but i don't think ol' karl really felt that subjugation and oppression were intrinsic to his model of post capitalist societies. i think that may have been added in later by unscrupulous individuals. if we are to throw out systems of government based on potential for misuse by the power hungry and ne'erdowells then we might as well just throw up our hands and eat tree bark for the next two thousand years because goodness knows none of the other options have worked out for us.

Non Serviam posted:

We are officially calling for a USSR like government now. Liberal Goons are the best when it comes to meltdowns.

Bad Decision Dino posted:

I have at no point called for a USSR-like goverment. I mentioned that I am a Marxist because I do not believe any other way of organizing a society that deals with the problems that 21st century capitalism fascism. You claimed that communist regimes irrevocably lead to mass killings, I have argued that plenty of lovely regimes were big on mass killings, and that maybe it isn't so much the communism thing as the lovely regime thing that is the major common factor. Then you accused me of having a meltdown.

Panzeh posted:

You motherfuckers pushed this neoliberal shill on us, you paid for it. You loving retards decided to pick the woman who sniffs her own farts and presented her to us as the super politician who is perfect at getting elected when all she did was run up the score in the blue states.