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steinrokkan posted:It doesn't matter how many people precisely which Kim killed, you sociopath. The death accountancy on both sides is only done by morally bankrupt idiots who can't grasp the greater philosophical reality. Reality is defined by fact, my dude.
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Nov 11, 2016 14:35
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steinrokkan posted:Clinton convinced millions of people not to vote for Trump, but didn't convince any of those to vote for her. That speaks as much about the incompetence of the Democrats as about the apathy and moral laxness of the electorate. Except only the former can be really changed. I hope you're wrong. If we can't address the supposed unimportance of elections to a huge chunk of the electorate I think the Dems are screwed. Forever. Hopefully incremental improvements in education, technology, and transparency make it clearer to a marginally smarter young populace how essential it is that we vote down crony capitalism and authoritarian racism. Yeah, I'm not feeling to optimistic right now.
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Nov 11, 2016 14:39
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Condiv posted:very much this Yeah what happened this election was going to come eventually. The Democrats election strategy seemed to be "more or less ignore states, hope for a wave election in congress, and nominate Presidents that the people SHOULD want but don't necessarily since there's no risk because Republicans are dead nationally." It was only a matter of time until they flubbed or people stayed home and the Republicans would have the executive and the legislative. If it wasn't Hillary in 2016 it would be someone in four or eight years. The sad reality is that you can't assume people are going to vote strongly purely based on the badness of the opponent and run on that as your main plank, ESPECIALLY when our media is such poo poo many people didn't understand the full gravity of the situation. This is a huge issue where the media will never show the Republicans for what they truly are so you can't count on them to vilify one rightfully. Also if that story about Bill being told campaigning in the Rust states were old fashioned is true, that's just so Hillary. She surrounds herself with idiots and worst still they are arrogant idiots. The Puppy Bowl posted:I hope you're wrong. If we can't address the supposed unimportance of elections to a huge chunk of the electorate I think the Dems are screwed. Forever. Hopefully incremental improvements in education, technology, and transparency make it clearer to a marginally smarter young populace how essential it is that we vote down crony capitalism and authoritarian racism. The Democrats can win they just need a candidate that is likable and makes people want to vote for him or her, has a message that resonates with people that are suffering, and doesn't have tons of baggage that distracts from the candidate. Obama won and brought in a bunch of Senators and Representative by being that person. He's not some kind of magician, he just resonated with America that wanted change. He then basically squandered it by working with the Republicans and doing the lovely compromise which would have been a disaster if we weren't ironically saved by Ted Cruz and bailing out the banks while offering little help to the victims. People will vote Democrat but they need to be sold to not talked to like their vote is owned. Telling people they are bad for not voting Democrat and staying home may feel cathartic (those people are responsible for this mess as well) but it's not going to win elections. Eggplant Squire fucked around with this message at 14:45 on Nov 11, 2016 |
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Nov 11, 2016 14:39
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HorseLord posted:Reality is defined by fact, my dude. The fact is that North Korea is still a slave state run on murder and extortion, no matter how much pocketbook arithmetic you do.
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Nov 11, 2016 14:40
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DNC overestimated the intelligence of the American people.
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Nov 11, 2016 14:42
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steinrokkan posted:The fact is that North Korea is still a slave state run on murder and extortion, no matter how much pocketbook arithmetic you do.
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Nov 11, 2016 14:44
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steinrokkan posted:The fact is that North Korea is still a slave state run on murder and extortion, no matter how much pocketbook arithmetic you do. So now you're concerned about facts, when in the previous post you defended a lie that suits the purpose of
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Nov 11, 2016 14:45
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mcvey posted:DNC overestimated the intelligence of the American people. The DNC overestimated their own intelligence. They lost their own loving lock states.
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Nov 11, 2016 14:46
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Bad Decision Dino posted:Yes, North Korea would be much better if they opted to outsource their slavery to India, Pakistan and China and only murdered people if it got them cheaper oil. How much good has isolationist Juche done for India. Or any real world foreign socialist government. When given the opportunity, real world communist parties did as much to hurt poor nations as capitalist systems. Defending the indefensible is only hurting socialist credentials. HorseLord posted:So now you're concerned about facts, when in the previous post you defended a lie that suits the purpose of lol´, not being okay with slavery is a pretty basic philosophically determined position
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Nov 11, 2016 14:48
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Opposite take here: http://www.rollcall.com/news/opinion/im-a-coastal-elite-from-the-midwest-the-real-bubble-is-rural-america quote:We, as a culture, have to stop infantilizing and deifying rural and white working-class Americans. Their experience is not more of a real American experience than anyone else’s, but when we say that it is, we give people a pass from seeing and understanding more of their country. More Americans need to see more of the United States. They need to shake hands with a Muslim, or talk soccer with a middle aged lesbian, or attend a lecture by a female business executive.
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Nov 11, 2016 14:48
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Condiv posted:so you would argue we should grow stronger and progress by.... locking out the over half of america that didn't vote for democrats Yes, insisting people who passively watched as bigotry sailed into office not get a pass on it is the same as locking them out. Good. You've worked out my electoral strategy. Let me know how yours works out now that a bunch of pieces of your coalition is in for a devastating 4 years and you get to convince us we won't get hosed over again because a few million people claiming to be on our side aren't enthused enough.
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Nov 11, 2016 14:48
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The DPRK is a lovely regime. So lovely, in fact, you don't need to make up poo poo to accurately portray how lovely it is, and doing so serves no purpose than to bring into doubt other claims about it.
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Nov 11, 2016 14:51
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PKJC posted:Beloved abuela? gently caress off. I want the Bernie/Warren wing in charge at a bare minimum. Even in a red state I had the loving sense and common decency to say no to fascism. You're welcome to argue blue dogs aren't progressive but I wasn't saying they are, I'm saying someone faced with a open bigot and avowed rapist who does not enthusiastically vote to shut that ideology down doesn't really give a drat about progress. dear me. i understand that you're angry and upset, because i am also these things, for the past six years give or take. even so, i do wish you would pay a little bit more attention to the things that i have said. your hypothesis here is 100% supported. the average democrat voter does not, as a rule, give a drat about progress. the point i am laboring to make here is that you and lightning knight and the rest constantly bringing up the ramifications of a trump victory on minority populations is, at best, perplexing. it does no good to try and convince comfortable liberals that their political choices might actually have consequences, and if you are so intent on championing such causes, then adamantly standing by hillary is nonsensical. you're trying to have your electoral cake and eat it too by taking a hard line on a stance and ascribing it to a politician without a hard line on anything. if you recognize that apathetic centrist voters are indeed a part of the problem, they they do not adequately consider the implications of their actions, it is odd indeed to gnash your teeth about how fake progressives are being overly critical of the politician that embodies and enables that kind of political hobbyism. we can, if you wish, lay the blame at the feet of the stay-at-homes and former obama voters and slighted berniebros. this is just. but it is not actionable.
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Nov 11, 2016 14:51
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steinrokkan posted:
Excellent, I agree there, but can you explain how you reconcile your concern for the "greater philosophical reality" with how you told me to suck a dead person's dick for fact checking a claim? - Is philosophical reality not informed by material reality, i.e, if something you say has happened is true or not?
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Nov 11, 2016 14:52
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Any Democrat who does not agree that the Clinton wing of the party is politically dead is massively delusional and will guarantee a second Trump term, IMO. The Democratic Party needs a total renovation. From Taibbi: "Trump made idiots of us all. From the end of primary season onward, I felt sure Trump was en route to ruining, perhaps forever, the Republican Party as a force in modern American life. Now the Republicans are more dominant than ever, and it is the Democratic Party that is shattered and faces an uncertain future. And they deserve it. The Democratic Party's failure to keep Donald Trump out of the White House in 2016 will go down as one of the all-time examples of insular arrogance. The party not only spent most of the past two years ignoring the warning signs of the Trump rebellion, but vilifying anyone who tried to point them out. It denounced all rumors of its creeping unpopularity as vulgar lies and bullied anyone who dared question its campaign strategy by calling them racists, sexists and agents of Vladimir Putin's Russia."
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Nov 11, 2016 14:59
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steinrokkan posted:How much good has isolationist Juche done for India. Or any real world foreign socialist government. When given the opportunity, real world communist parties did as much to hurt poor nations as capitalist systems. Defending the indefensible is only hurting socialist credentials. steinrokkan posted:lol´, not being okay with slavery is a pretty basic philosophically determined position
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Nov 11, 2016 15:02
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aBagorn posted:Opposite take here: That isn't going to happen. And we can't hope to win elections in the future by hoping that racist and sexists come to their senses.
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Nov 11, 2016 15:02
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Bad Decision Dino posted:I agree, as I have done this entire thread: poo poo regime will continue to be poo poo regardless of what colors they fly. I don't support outsourcing without regulations and responsibility, but I will not equate it with the Cultural revolution, Holodomor, or any of the lesser attempts to enforce labor through lethal force. You keep saying you don't support lovely regimes, but then you have a kneejerk reflex to jump to their defense with whataboutist platitudes.
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Nov 11, 2016 15:04
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Dazzling Addar posted:dear me. i understand that you're angry and upset, because i am also these things, for the past six years give or take. even so, i do wish you would pay a little bit more attention to the things that i have said. your hypothesis here is 100% supported. the average democrat voter does not, as a rule, give a drat about progress. the point i am laboring to make here is that you and lightning knight and the rest constantly bringing up the ramifications of a trump victory on minority populations is, at best, perplexing. it does no good to try and convince comfortable liberals that their political choices might actually have consequences, and if you are so intent on championing such causes, then adamantly standing by hillary is nonsensical. you're trying to have your electoral cake and eat it too by taking a hard line on a stance and ascribing it to a politician without a hard line on anything. if you recognize that apathetic centrist voters are indeed a part of the problem, they they do not adequately consider the implications of their actions, it is odd indeed to gnash your teeth about how fake progressives are being overly critical of the politician that embodies and enables that kind of political hobbyism. we can, if you wish, lay the blame at the feet of the stay-at-homes and former obama voters and slighted berniebros. this is just. but it is not actionable. Actually, if you pay attention to the numbers, the average democratic voter did exactly what I've been saying is basic human decency in voting down the fascist. Some of them liked hillary, others held their nose, but they did not vote for Trump nor did they abstain. But about 9 or 10% of the dem electorate that showed for Obama weren't there this time. And they had their reasons I'm sure, that they used to convince themselves they were doing the right thing. But they did not do the right thing. Subjecting other people to regressive policies because incremental progression isn't good enough for you personally is one of the most idiotic possible positions for a so called leftist to take. I'm curious who it is you think was the reasonable choice this election for a person who does, in fact, really truly care about erasing inequality.
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Nov 11, 2016 15:03
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What can I do to help the LGBT community and minorities in the coming years? I'm terrified of what they're going to be going through.
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Nov 11, 2016 15:06
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Work or starve is a pretty good example of labour enforced by violent means. I guess when you can obfuscate this harsh truth through various means then the essential violent nature of it is not really questioned.
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Nov 11, 2016 15:07
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Is this the first time the First Lady has been an immigrant?
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Nov 11, 2016 15:07
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_lLxlvLx__A&t=644s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OjNgm7TgsgA
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Nov 11, 2016 15:09
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Queering Wheel posted:What can I do to help the LGBT community and minorities in the coming years? I'm terrified of what they're going to be going through. Start getting involved in organizing for local elections in 2017 and the 2018 midterms. Cardboard Box A posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_lLxlvLx__A&t=644s An idiot.
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Nov 11, 2016 15:09
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Guy Goodbody posted:Is this the first time the First Lady has been an immigrant? Well as any red blooded American will tell you Michelle is an immigrant (citation needed). Hopefully she will be the first one to be subject to Trump's immigration policy, though. What's good for the goose is good for the gander.
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Nov 11, 2016 15:10
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Guy Goodbody posted:Is this the first time the First Lady has been an immigrant? Second, first was John Adam's wife I think she was from the UK.
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Nov 11, 2016 15:10
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VH4Ever posted:Any Democrat who does not agree that the Clinton wing of the party is politically dead is massively delusional and will guarantee a second Trump term, IMO. The Democratic Party needs a total renovation. I was mostly ambivalent between the two in the primary (in the sense that I liked both) and voted for neither because Washington does caucuses and I lived overseas at the time, but I'm really, really incredibly glad he ran now. I don't know if he would have won in the general or whatever and that doesn't matter - what he accomplished not just in the primary itself but in the ongoing aftermath of that and the general may have saved the Democratic party and the nation.
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Nov 11, 2016 15:10
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Queering Wheel posted:What can I do to help the LGBT community and minorities in the coming years? I'm terrified of what they're going to be going through. Help them organize for self defense.
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Nov 11, 2016 15:11
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Mnoba posted:Second, first was John Adam's wife I think she was from the UK. It's still kinda cool. I bet Melania will be a good First Lady. I just hope Trump doesn't trade her in for a younger woman while he's in office.
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Nov 11, 2016 15:11
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I hate that gently caress Bill Burr
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Nov 11, 2016 15:11
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mcmagic posted:That isn't going to happen. And we can't hope to win elections in the future by hoping that racist and sexists come to their senses. Well, I would think you would have better control of that in blue states such as Michigan, Wisconsin, and Penn. Maybe it's the school systems?
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Nov 11, 2016 15:13
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Guy Goodbody posted:It's still kinda cool. I bet Melania will be a good First Lady. I hope he does, because it would be one of the few things about his presidency that we could laugh at without also being horrified at the implications
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Nov 11, 2016 15:12
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blue squares posted:I hate that gently caress Bill Burr Can you articulate? I listened to his podcast for a bit last night and I too thought it was lovely for various reasons, but maybe you have better reasons.
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Nov 11, 2016 15:15
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Guy Goodbody posted:Is this the first time the First Lady has been an immigrant? John Adams' wife was born in Mass., British America.
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Nov 11, 2016 15:17
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Why are they permabanning people with Hillary gangtags?
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Nov 11, 2016 15:17
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jBrereton posted:Yes. hrmm here says London. It was on CNN last night. https://www.whitehouse.gov/1600/first-ladies/louisaadams
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Nov 11, 2016 15:18
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Hey look, pretty soon the House of Un-American Activities is coming back http://www.cnn.com/2016/06/14/politics/newt-gingrich-house-un-american-activities-committee/index.html Have fun living in full blown fascism you guys.
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Nov 11, 2016 15:20
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Rated PG-34 posted:Can you articulate? I listened to his podcast for a bit last night and I too thought it was lovely for various reasons, but maybe you have better reasons. He's a mascot for the anti social justice people who like to consider themselves good people but think everyone calling attention to actual problems are just being a bunch of pussies.
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Nov 11, 2016 15:20
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Kilroy posted:I said it last night and I'll say it again: Sanders run in the primary was incredibly fortunate. Without it, the DNC establishment would be talking right now about more triangulation. Instead, Chuck Schumer is endorsing Keith Ellison for DNC chair. They are beaten. Wow, I'm surprised Schumer endorsed Ellison. That's great, but Schumer in my opinion is one of the people who needs to go. He should not be in democratic leadership.
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Nov 11, 2016 15:20
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 Easily the best Trump wins cover out of all of them.
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Nov 11, 2016 15:24
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