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mastershakeman posted:the more news about Hillary's campaign the better. I'm hearing it was full of kids of rich donors and paid little or nothing because none of the scions of wealth wanted for money. and the few paid positions paid way more to men than women lol
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Nov 11, 2016 14:34
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Nov 11, 2016 14:37
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it's true. all of it
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Nov 11, 2016 14:38
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No way, I'm actually surprised that Schumer is backing Ellison.
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Nov 11, 2016 14:38
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Jenner posted:she took 90% of Bernie's platform and made it her own.
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Nov 11, 2016 14:40
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"I just don't understand why we got so few votes among women without college degrees!" says the trust-fundlet beneficiary of nepotism. "Yeah," says the man in the room getting paid more than everyone else put together, "they must be too stupid and misogynistic to realize it's their duty to vote for Feminist Icon Hillary Clinton."
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Nov 11, 2016 14:41
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also hillary and her media cohorts spent much of the primaries attacking bernie's populist platforms such as universal college education. people aren't as stupid as you think to forget that in such a short time.
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Nov 11, 2016 14:46
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Fargo Fukes posted:France, probably? You'd have to base your whole political system around funneling money to small farmers but the food would be superb and the countryside would be transformed from dystopian industrial factory farms to cool little villages and green fields and poo poo. Do small farmers even still exist in any significant quantity in this country? I know we love to talk about them and pretend they exist but I was under the impression that most "small farms" have been swallowed up by Monsanto who exploits and bullies them and keeps them at poverty wages at best. You wanna make a good appeal to the working class? This sounds like a good place to go. loving tear up Monsanto and give the farms back to small farmers and help them prosper. quote:Guns! I still remember all the times my sexist alcoholic chain-smoking father took me out to the gun range and let me and my brothers shoot his guns. It was actually quite fun and it helped me get over the gender socialized shyness and passive permissiveness that is beaten into many girls. I also liked the smell of gun powder and was a good shot! One time one of my father's friends showed up with an old black powder rifle and I managed to convince him to let me shoot it. It had intense recoil and I think it might have fractured my collar bone because I was in pretty intense pain and it was bruised, tender and sore for weeks. I'll never know though, because dad begged and bribed me not to tell my mom (I wasn't gonna anyway) and not to go to the hospital because he didn't want to get in trouble and it healed naturally on its own and I recovered. Later he taught me how to shoot a bow and we would go out hunting and I actually killed a deer once (it was 5 points I think? It has been a long time.) And he taught me how to skin it. (I still remember how and it's come up a few times but that's a story for another time.) Anyway, he never taught us gun safety. One of his friends did and warned us that they were dangerous and not toys and could hurt or kill people. And going to the range and hanging out with all these old white guys had me pick up a lot of their mannerisms. I became more brazen, shameless, and outgoing. My sexist dad letting me get involved in a "guy thing" was probably a huge influence on what made me such a crass smart rear end tom boy. And that is the story of how my sexist father, who endlessly quoted bible scripture at me about how women need to shut up and be obedient to men and who was bullied by his friends into letting his bored daughter, who he was sidelining and neglecting, participate in guy stuff with her brothers, turned me into a raving bisexual feminist. Thanks guns! So yeah, guns are alright. And we should all be allowed to arm ourselves as well as we can in case we need to have an uprising or something. But I also don't think people who are going to use guns for the wrong reasons should have them. I just don't think there's an effective way to determine who is a safe, responsible gun owner vs someone who is a potential spree shooter. And as someone who has a lot of significant mental health issues (the source of my earlier mentioned disability) I do not like the idea of profiling and denying the mentally ill access to guns as they were good for me and the mentally ill have a right to protect themselves too. Wow, I'm a loving terrible Democrat.  quote:Hillary didn't campaign on Bernie's poo poo  You're all right, she didn't. Maybe if she had she would have done a little better. One more reason why we failed to add to the pile that led us to this mess. Sigh.
Jenner has issued a correction as of 14:51 on Nov 11, 2016 |
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Nov 11, 2016 14:47
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Jenner posted:Do small farmers even still exist in any significant quantity in this country? I know we love to talk about them and pretend they exist but I was under the impression that most "small farms" have been swallowed up by Monsanto who exploits and bullies them and keeps them at poverty wages at best. they do and I'm friends/neighbors/relatives of them but it's a dying breed . Monsanto has nothing to do with it, it's just capitalism but somehow encouraging small farms and the clusters of people around elevators is the sole way to go back 70 years to the past and would require magic
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Nov 11, 2016 14:52
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I feel like Hillary adopting Bernie's platform was a rhetorical weapon to shut down people trying to call her centrist rather than an actual platform of policy stances she believed in and wanted to sell people on
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Nov 11, 2016 14:54
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mastershakeman posted:the more news about Hillary's campaign the better. I'm hearing it was full of kids of rich donors and paid little or nothing because none of the scions of wealth wanted for money. and the few paid positions paid way more to men than women Time to come clean, Venom Snake. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lLl0DVzRksk
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Nov 11, 2016 14:57
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Well they're party platforms now at least. So those positions don't slip into the void. They're not hard fast rules but it being in writing will help combat the idea that the path going forward is to centrist even harder.
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Nov 11, 2016 14:58
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loquacius posted:I feel like Hillary adopting Bernie's platform was a rhetorical weapon to shut down people trying to call her centrist rather than an actual platform of policy stances she believed in and wanted to sell people on she screams lying weather vane politician and has no authenticity. she's blatantly opportunistic. she wants to be mealy mouthed and amorphous on her positions. just look at her initial statements about her stance on the XL pipeline.
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Nov 11, 2016 14:59
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comedyblissoption posted:this is the same reason why she distanced herself from TPP when she's been such a strong advocate for it and previous trade deals she's famously a candidate who takes positions based on polls and then was betrayed by polls in her greatest hour of need. they were her one ring
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Nov 11, 2016 15:00
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The dumbest presidential campaign yet full of delusional imbeciles, was better staffed and organized than the Clinton campaign. And nobody could tell because we were all completely distracted by the sheer spectacle of the Trump Train.
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Nov 11, 2016 15:01
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Jenner posted:Do small farmers even still exist in any significant quantity in this country? I know we love to talk about them and pretend they exist but I was under the impression that most "small farms" have been swallowed up by Monsanto who exploits and bullies them and keeps them at poverty wages at best. There's still small farms out there. Significant quantity? Maybe, maybe not. They're a modest political force where I live but they're still under pressure, mostly from general economic forces rather than giant conglomerates specifically trying to gently caress them.
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Nov 11, 2016 15:03
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even when clinton came out against the TPP it was either very late or after the vote to give the president fast track authority. she either wanted more time to focus group what her position should be or she wanted to only be against it when it no longer mattered.
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Nov 11, 2016 15:04
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comedyblissoption posted:this is the same reason why she distanced herself from TPP when she's been such a strong advocate for it and previous trade deals Which reminds me. Native Americans trying to protect their land and water are going to get bulldozered under Trump. But that probably would have happened with a Democratic president too because they are a bunch of loving corporate shills and eat the rich
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Nov 11, 2016 15:03
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The Clinton campaign was a dang Armando Iannucci movie https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cIPxLzfw6wU&t=136s Pener Kropoopkin has issued a correction as of 15:24 on Nov 11, 2016 |
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Nov 11, 2016 15:04
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if clinton was elected, obama would have passed TPP during his lame duck session one of the gaffes during the campaign season was when a hillary supporter told others that hillary wasn't REALLY against the tpp and it was just a public facade only a rube would think she was actually against the TPP
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Nov 11, 2016 15:05
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loquacius posted:I feel like Hillary adopting Bernie's platform was a rhetorical weapon to shut down people trying to call her centrist rather than an actual platform of policy stances she believed in and wanted to sell people on I don't know why she'd want to shut anyone down. That really doesn't make any sense. It was smart to pick up on college debt just like Obama and Hillary spoke to John Edwards "2 Americas" theme after he dropped out. She should have pushed for a first 100 days agenda of addressing the cost of health insurance, educational debt, and ~jobs~. Nobody really cares about bridges or roads unless one is falling on them. I can't figure out why no one has seized on the idea that college debt is a major driving force behind the justifications for why we have to pay so much for health care. It may sound silly to give a gift to doctors who make hundreds of thousands a year but there are also family practice doctors and family dentists who don't make a ton lot of money but get saddled with tons of college debt.
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Nov 11, 2016 15:06
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Jenner posted:Which reminds me. Native Americans trying to protect their land and water are going to get bulldozered under Trump. I honestly feel that the armed American Indian Movement is going to come back in the next four years, partly due to that, partly due to an inevitable crackdown at Oak Flat in Arizona and partly due to Trump's own bigotry against Natives pissing them off a lot, as they're already ignored by literally everyone. And all it'll take for the days of armed Black Nationalist insurgency to return is one or two BLM protests ending with cops or the Nat Guard just firing at people, with Trump saying he's got their back or some  poo poo.The Republicans basically are gigantic idiots and are going to poke people in the eye and then act surprised when, oh poo poo turns out that these people actually CAN fight to defend themselves, imagine that...
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Nov 11, 2016 15:07
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Vox Nihili posted:speaking of which, ive been talking to some well-situated union-side labor attorneys (aka my colleagues) and the expectation is an amended NLRA and national right-to-work within 2 years Same. There's some in the Union community who are like "let's encourage the GOP/conservatives to push for a full out repeal of the NLRA/Taft Hartley and just have one last, wild west labor fight. It would either work spectacularly or it would be the nail in the coffin for the American labor movement.
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Nov 11, 2016 15:10
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hailthefish posted:There's still small farms out there. Significant quantity? Maybe, maybe not. They're a modest political force where I live but they're still under pressure, mostly from general economic forces rather than giant conglomerates specifically trying to gently caress them. There's a lot of dairy farms and apple orchards where I live and while capitalism is what it is, NYC people moving here for the views and then rezoning poo poo sure doesn't help that urban/rural divide.
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Nov 11, 2016 15:11
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Yeah I don't see how gop doesn't enact the final burning of all bridges in four years. Poor whites are not going to get anything and I don't see how they can blame anyone else. But I'm sure they'll find a way 
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Nov 11, 2016 15:16
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VikingSkull posted:There's a lot of dairy farms and apple orchards where I live and while capitalism is what it is, NYC people moving here for the views and then rezoning poo poo sure doesn't help that urban/rural divide. Ding ding ding ding loving ding. We might be neighbors.
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Nov 11, 2016 15:15
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RENEGADE CUCKSKY posted:Same. There's some in the Union community who are like "let's encourage the GOP/conservatives to push for a full out repeal of the NLRA/Taft Hartley and just have one last, wild west labor fight. I'm inclined to think it will work extremely well. Trump has weak legitimacy and popular support, and it would do well to wedge him against either his swing voters or his standard republican line.
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Nov 11, 2016 15:15
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Gotta say I was not expecting Schumer to back Keith
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Nov 11, 2016 15:17
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but what the gently caress do i know i assumed that you could wedge trump from his neocon base, and look who came knocking back?
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Nov 11, 2016 15:16
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comedyblissoption posted:even when clinton came out against the TPP it was either very late or after the vote to give the president fast track authority. she either wanted more time to focus group what her position should be or she wanted to only be against it when it no longer mattered. Her standing on that debate stage babbling almost incoherently about how she was for TPP before she was against it, and anyone who asks about TPP is a liar trying to smear her was once of the least convincing things I've seen this whole cycle. It's also probably the single biggest factor in why she lost all those rust belt states.
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Nov 11, 2016 15:18
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It seems like change is starting to come hard to Hillary supporters in this forum. The demographic breakdown on her support shows that the media and DNC were pushing armchair punditry as foundational truths. It turns out that the collective anecdotal info here about Hillary was right. She had some strong bastions of support, especially older feminists. None of these groups publicly fought for Hillary well at all. There are those cute articles about all of the silent support Hillary had like her hidden campaign office in a mall where women gathered to laugh about how Trumps going down no matter what, he's too scary in his bigotry. Turns out that she wasn't inspiring enough to get her supporters willing to publicly endorse her. "But people say sexist things at me when I try to talk up Hillary so I can't do it sorry" was framed at look how bad these Trump or Bernie supporters are, not how unenthusiastic her "base" was. I want to tread delicately here because I am white male, and I accept and hate how sexist our culture is and understand that women face a mountain of poo poo I never have to deal with. Also, the struggle is continuous with major stepping stones we like to highlight because it makes telling the story easier. That being said here goes: 100 years ago women awesomely succeeded in universal suffrage. This was accomplished with hunger strikes and passionate demonstrations. It was brutal and ugly but they fought. 50 years ago women burned their bras in public, demanding more social standing, sexual agency, and work rights. They were poo poo on publicly and kept fighting and made huge progress. The last entire year saw almost no public feminist movement. Hillary WAS the public feminist movement. But what was she fighting for? Was she adamant about equal pay? Adamant about childcare? Adamant about reproductive health? Of course these were included in her policy, just read it on her website. She didn't convince people she was fighting for anything progressive for women, and as a result "Gram em by the pussy" Trump took 43% 43%. Let that sink in. The most openly misogynistic candidate ever still got nearly half of women's votes. During the first real opportunity to elect a woman to the highest seat of world power, there was no large passionate support from women. It's shocking. Especially against an opponent who is poised to destroy reproductive rights and is a serial sexual assaulter. I know a lot of great women fought hard for Hillary and against Trump. They are not the problem. The women who just stayed home aren't the problem. Even the alarmingly high number of women who voted for Trump aren't the problem. Hillary was the problem. She's "competent" in office. Able to push neoliberal agendas through corporate friendly politicians. These are not seen as positives by most of the country right now. Had she campaigned as a progressive instead of a safe centrist, she could have won. But she's only really ever payed lip service to impactful progressive proposals. People wanted change more than anything, and leaned pretty heavy to socialist change. Instead we were force fed a bought off centrist that adopted progressive platforms half heartedly and promised more of Obama's direction. The campaign mistook people liking Obama personally to liking his platforms. He never did poo poo about weed being schedule 1, started a secret bombing campaign, secret kill lists including U.S. citizens, and bungled economic recovery by reaching across the aisle. It's hard not to like Obama, he's kind of awesome. But his appealing charisma only goes so far. Obama got away with his cozying up to Wall Street because he's Obama, not because the D base is cool with that. No one ever denied she'd be hawkish, likely more than Obama. People are almost as sick as the unending American military presence in the ME as they are sick of banking shenanigans and whoops she is poo poo on both points. She was a uniquely terrible candidate for this election, and hopefully the we can purge neoliberalism from the DNC and push for real change.
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Nov 11, 2016 15:22
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Shark Sandwich posted:Gotta say I was not expecting Schumer to back Keith Who and what Sorry if this was explained just a few pages ago before I showed up
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Nov 11, 2016 15:23
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Sir Tonk posted:No way, I'm actually surprised that Schumer is backing Ellison. I can believe it sorta. Right now the dnc is hosed. Neoliberalism didn't work and neither did hollier than thou "progressive" assholes.
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Nov 11, 2016 15:23
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Knowing that HRC's staff was almost exclusively trust fund babies give some additional context but still holy gently caress, two term President Bill Clinton stands up and says "Guys I know this may sound crazy but maybe we should try to get people to vote FOR us" and everyone in the room just goes "LOL whatever whitesplaining grandpa  ". Just god drat.
Iron Twinkie has issued a correction as of 15:32 on Nov 11, 2016 |
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Nov 11, 2016 15:27
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whoops double post
FistEnergy has issued a correction as of 15:29 on Nov 11, 2016 |
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Nov 11, 2016 15:26
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I made my share of Berniebro jokes this year, and I assumed that Clinton's flaws weren't fatal when compared to Trump's, but I just finished emailing Sherrod Brown and I told him that neoliberalism is dead and the progressive wing needs to take over from here and focus on economic equality and unionization. And after that, I emailed my county Democratic party office to find out how I can help out with this Trump-sign-infested county.
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Nov 11, 2016 15:27
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Schumer is the same as all the GOP who immediately realigned to Trumpism when he killed off the Party of Reagan. The rats jumping ship and not resisting is a very good sign.
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Nov 11, 2016 15:30
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mastershakeman posted:she's famously a candidate who takes positions based on polls and then was betrayed by polls in her greatest hour of need. they were her one ring more like palantir 
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Nov 11, 2016 15:29
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Concordat posted:
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Nov 11, 2016 15:29
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SHY NUDIST GRRL posted:Who and what Keith Ellison is the black Muslim left-wing candidate for DNC chair that Sanders is backing. Chuck Schumer is the neoliberal centrist incoming leader of the senate Democrats. Even when it looked like Clinton would pull it out and we were set for 4-8 years of things getting sorta better, there was an 'ugh, Schumer' bullet point. If the latter really is backing the former that's legit surprising and suggests some of the corporate democrats might actually be surrendering.
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