uspol november: as it turns out they could not stump the trump

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > uspol november: as it turns out they could not stump the trump

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Deadly Ham Sandwich: Aug 19, 2009; Smellrose

Mnoba posted:

Well, I would think you would have better control of that in blue states such as Michigan, Wisconsin, and Penn. Maybe it's the school systems?

Those are all swing states. They only seemed solid blue because Obama won them by a large margin by being a great candidate.

# ? Nov 11, 2016 15:24

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# ? Jun 6, 2024 09:17

John_A_Tallon: Nov 22, 2000; Oh my! Check out that mitre!

CommieGIR posted:

Why are they permabanning people with Hillary gangtags?

They Toxx'd and lost their bets.

# ? Nov 11, 2016 15:25

mcmagic: Jul 1, 2004; If you see this avatar while scrolling the succ zone, you have been visited by the mcmagic of shitty lib takes! Good luck and prosperity will come to you, but only if you reply "shut the fuck up mcmagic" to this post!

Mnoba posted:

Well, I would think you would have better control of that in blue states such as Michigan, Wisconsin, and Penn. Maybe it's the school systems?

No. It's giving our voters something to VOTE FOR and candidates they don't despise. We don't need to change one mind.

# ? Nov 11, 2016 15:25

Crowsbeak: Oct 9, 2012; by Azathoth; Lipstick Apathy

VH4Ever posted:

Any Democrat who does not agree that the Clinton wing of the party is politically dead is massively delusional and will guarantee a second Trump term, IMO. The Democratic Party needs a total renovation. From Taibbi:

"Trump made idiots of us all. From the end of primary season onward, I felt sure Trump was en route to ruining, perhaps forever, the Republican Party as a force in modern American life. Now the Republicans are more dominant than ever, and it is the Democratic Party that is shattered and faces an uncertain future.

And they deserve it. The Democratic Party's failure to keep Donald Trump out of the White House in 2016 will go down as one of the all-time examples of insular arrogance. The party not only spent most of the past two years ignoring the warning signs of the Trump rebellion, but vilifying anyone who tried to point them out. It denounced all rumors of its creeping unpopularity as vulgar lies and bullied anyone who dared question its campaign strategy by calling them racists, sexists and agents of Vladimir Putin's Russia."

This, Neoliberalism deserves to be on the trash heap it should have always been on now. BTW the JACOBIN has more words of truth here. One of our goals should be henceforth to kill the EC as its goal anyways isn't working as we got Trump elected and it was suppose to prevent a Trump.

https://www.jacobinmag.com/2016/11/trump-clinton-popular-vote-electoral-college-constitution/ posted:

Abolish the Electoral College

Tuesday�s election showed once again that the Constitution is an impediment to democratic rule.
by Daniel Lazare
Donald Trump in Reno, NV on January 10, 2016. Darron Birgenheier / Flickr

Donald Trump in Reno, NV on January 10, 2016. Darron Birgenheier / Flickr

Preview the new issue of Jacobin, out November 21. To mark its release, we�re offering discounted introductory subscriptions.

Donald Trump won Tuesday�s election with 305 electoral votes to Hillary Clinton�s 233. So the papers say. But in fact, Clinton triumphed in the only way that counts � i.e. in terms of the popular vote, beating her opponent by more than two hundred thousand votes, according to the latest tally.

This means that Tuesday�s election was nearly an identical repeat of 2000, when Bush also edged out his Democratic opponent thanks to a timely intervention by a Republican-controlled Supreme Court, but lost the popular vote by roughly the same margin � 0.5 percent instead of 0.35. For the second time in sixteen years, in other words, a Democrat has won the vote but lost the race due to a sclerotic eighteenth-century institution known as the Electoral College.

This should be the stuff of headlines from coast to coast, yet instead the news is being buried deep inside if it�s referenced at all. Obama didn�t mention it in his comments yesterday, and neither did Clinton in her short concession speech. �Donald Trump is going to be our president,� was all she could say. �We owe him an open mind and the chance to lead. Our constitutional democracy enshrines the peaceful transfer of power.�

In other words, go back to sleep while the country slides toward the authoritarian right because that�s what the constitutional system wants you to do.

This is no surprise considering Clinton has pledged allegiance to the Constitution on innumerable occasions and was therefore in no position to protest now that the document had gone against her.

But those who care about democracy are under no such obligation. They should be crying bloody murder over the way it has been traduced. Although the school books say that government in the United States is of the people, by the people, and for the people, Americans have been presented yet again with proof that it�s really of, by, and for a piece of yellowing parchment residing in a bomb-proof vault in the National Archives.

Yet the Constitution didn�t just yank away victory � it was one reason why Clinton�s opponent did as well as he did in the first place.

To be sure, it was hardly the only factor. �The long depression,� as Marxist economist Michael Roberts describes the post-2008 capitalist slump, played a part in sparking right-wing populism from Paris to the Philippines. Clinton proved to be one of the most uninspiring candidates in memory, someone whose negative poll numbers were nearly as lofty as her opponent�s (no small feat given Trump�s penchant for offending broad sectors of the population). Not unrelatedly, she personified a moribund liberalism that seems to have lost the ability to inspire.

But there was something else at work, something uniquely American.

From the country�s founding, the Constitution has shaped US society. It�s set the US apart from the rest of the world. And this election, the Constitution helped tip the balance in Trump�s favor. By promoting gridlock on Capitol Hill via an antiquated system of checks and balances, it raised temperatures in a way that played into the hands of a radical right bent on undermining democratic government at every turn. And by hobbling US society with an electoral system better suited to the days of silk knee-breeches and powdered wigs, it made it all too easy for the will of the majority to be frustrated and overruled.

Electoral democracy has suffered a body blow as a result.

Checks and balances, separation of powers, and the rule of law are supposed to be the magic ingredients that safeguard American liberties, preventing any branch of government from acquiring tyrannical power. But in reality they do the opposite, precluding the democratic resolution of political differences and thereby locking in warring factions. Instead of calm and rational deliberation, the system causes passions to soar as disputes fester and grow.

The result is reminiscent of the decades of paralysis over the slavery question that followed the Missouri Compromise in 1819. But instead of civil war, the outcome this time around is a descent into an authoritarianism more reminiscent of the 1930s.

The upshot may not be fascism in the classic sense, with Brownshirts beating up leftists in the streets or marching them off to concentration camps. But the more society destabilizes under a hooligan like Trump, the farther down the anti-democratic road we�ll go.

This is how constitutional structures die, not with a bang but by rotting from within due to complacency, thoughtlessness, and an utter lack of nerve.

As for the Electoral College, it is worth pointing out that the last time this happened, establishment liberals vowed that something should be done. �Our present system is an eighteenth-century antique: it presupposes a starkly elitist conception of government that was popular then but which no politician would dare endorse today,� the liberal legal philosopher Ronald Dworkin declared in the New York Review of Books following the stolen election of 2000.

�We have been lucky not to have been seriously damaged by the Electoral College system long before this election made its anachronism intolerable,� he went on. �We now have the best chance ever to junk the anachronistic and dangerous eighteenth-century system. The public should demand that Congress begin a process of constitutional amendment that would eliminate that system, root and branch, and substitute for it the direct election of the president and vice-president by a plurality of the national popular vote.�

It made sense, yet the result was . . . zilch. The Electoral College remained untouched as the chattering classes rolled over and went back to sleep. Yes, something must be done, they snored, something soon . . . tomorrow.

Sixteen years later, Americans are therefore in the same boat, faced with yet another stolen election and yet another undemocratic lurch to the right. Yet Dworkin seems like a radical firebrand compared to the silence that now prevails. Why such acquiescence?

On one level, the problem is essentially mechanical. After all, abolishing the Electoral College would require establishing uniform voting and registration standards, which would mean federalizing an electoral process currently in the hands of state and local authorities. This would entail an overhaul of the constitutional architecture, perhaps the most dramatic since the adoption of the Fourteenth Amendment in 1868.

So no matter how important, it doesn�t stand a chance in light of a constitutional amending process that requires approval by two-thirds of each house of Congress plus three-fourths of the states in order to change so much as a comma. The three-fourths rule is particularly onerous since it means thirteen states representing as little as 4.4 percent of the population can veto any change sought by the remainder, a margin that is projected to shrink to just 3.5 percent by 2030.

Narrow as the window of opportunity is now, in other words, it will likely contract by another 20 percent or so over the next decade and a half. Without bold action, the Electoral College will wind up more firmly ensconced than ever, and electoral democracy will recede even farther into the distance.

But on another level, the problem is not so much mechanical as political and ideological. After all, an increasingly undemocratic constitutional order might conceivably inspire passionate protests and denunciations � mass demonstrations, torchlight parades, angry broadsides, and so forth. Instead of seeing such a document as an insuperable barrier, working people might see it instead as a challenge.

They might �thunder condemnation,� causing the ruling powers to tremble and quake.

And with good reason. As Tuesday�s election showed once again, the Constitution is not worthy of genuflection � it�s an impediment to democratic rule.

No one respects the old status anymore, why should we?

# ? Nov 11, 2016 15:25

mcmagic: Jul 1, 2004; If you see this avatar while scrolling the succ zone, you have been visited by the mcmagic of shitty lib takes! Good luck and prosperity will come to you, but only if you reply "shut the fuck up mcmagic" to this post!

I just don't see a viable path toward getting rid of the electoral college.

# ? Nov 11, 2016 15:28

Rated PG-34: Jul 1, 2004

blue squares posted:

He's a mascot for the anti social justice people who like to consider themselves good people but think everyone calling attention to actual problems are just being a bunch of pussies.

Ah, I came up with out of touch privileged bootstrapper.

# ? Nov 11, 2016 15:30

fosborb: Dec 15, 2006; Chronic Good Poster

mcmagic posted:

I just don't see a viable path toward getting rid of the electoral college.

Agreed. Most states have a disproportionate amount of influence due to the EC so good luck reaching a concurrence.

# ? Nov 11, 2016 15:33

Crowsbeak: Oct 9, 2012; by Azathoth; Lipstick Apathy

mcmagic posted:

I just don't see a viable path toward getting rid of the electoral college.

The way I see this, is it is a long term goal, from now on though our goals have to be that when we have power we make the GOP howl. We also punish. THe FBI cannot be trusted so we shall work to dissolving it of its powers and leaving it a husk. We should start working on states full of working class voters at a local level who get hosed by AIPAC laws passed by the GOP and offer them a alternative. Stop backing idiot neoliberals with wall street backgrounds. I remember when MISSISSIPPI had its last governortorial election the dems ended up nominating a truck driver. We need such people, those are the people we want running in working class areas.

# ? Nov 11, 2016 15:34

Rated PG-34: Jul 1, 2004

mcmagic posted:

I just don't see a viable path toward getting rid of the electoral college.

One of the proponents of a bill for abolishing it just did a bit on Democracy Now, and he essentially said that the states can enact it as they can make it law that all the electoral votes go to whomever has >50% of the popular vote.

# ? Nov 11, 2016 15:34

blue squares: Sep 28, 2007

Rated PG-34 posted:

Ah, I came up with out of touch privileged bootstrapper.

That too, good call

# ? Nov 11, 2016 15:37

mcmagic: Jul 1, 2004; If you see this avatar while scrolling the succ zone, you have been visited by the mcmagic of shitty lib takes! Good luck and prosperity will come to you, but only if you reply "shut the fuck up mcmagic" to this post!

Rated PG-34 posted:

One of the proponents of a bill for abolishing it just did a bit on Democracy Now, and he essentially said that the states can enact it as they can make it law that all the electoral votes go to whomever has >50% of the popular vote.

Unless all the states do this at once it's a horrible idea.

# ? Nov 11, 2016 15:37

Blorange: Jan 31, 2007; A wizard did it

They thought of that, they need 270 EC votes for the agreement to take effect.

# ? Nov 11, 2016 15:41

Crowsbeak: Oct 9, 2012; by Azathoth; Lipstick Apathy

furiouskoala posted:

What's racist about it? The only good it'll do is giving some people their moral jollies. Refugees aren't going to help the economy. I don't care what race or color they are, we don't need to take on any refugees right now.

Don't be too confident about the midterms either, memes are going to get young people to turn out. Trump already increased youth vote for Republicans over Romney or McCain (on the back of memes) and Generation Z, who will be coming into their votes by the midterms, is a much more conservative group than millenials.

Yeah mostly we didn't show up. The idea memes won Trump overall is hilariously stupid. Why didn't the young vote for HRC? They didn't trust her. They had no reason to trust her, and the dems need someone who is trustworthy.

mcmagic posted:

Unless all the states do this at once it's a horrible idea.

Well its much better then doling out EC proportionally because that just fucks the dems.

PKJC posted:

gently caress off. A bunch of pissy so called progressives sold out minorities, again, because they didn't feel catered to hard enough. This is 4 years, minimum, of more children having to stay in the closet because every piece of poo poo who ever bullied a gay or trans person just got legitimized by a large part of the electorate, and those who actually went out and voted Clinton are the only ones not culpable in this. Right now, helping the fake progressives who sat on their asses Tuesday to rebuild their coalition is way down on the list of priorities compared to things like "find somewhere else to live" or "stockpile my hrt drugs as much as I can before I get kicked off my insurance/my insurance decides to stop covering anything related to transitioning"

I love the idiot neoliberal who makes it so that to campaign on economic issues to sell out minorities. Let me say this, I hope when Keith Ellison heads the DNC that I hope he purges idiots like you, because you're the reason we lose.

Crowsbeak fucked around with this message at 15:45 on Nov 11, 2016

# ? Nov 11, 2016 15:41

Paradoxish: Dec 19, 2003; Will you stop going crazy in there?

Reverand maynard posted:

Hillary was the nerd quietly explaining the intricacies of why she should be class president and trump promised everyone free soda during recess.

Why do people always fall back on free stuff as a charge against politicians that they don't like? Trump absolutely was not offering anyone "free soda." He was very much exploiting American work culture and the concept of earning one's living by promising and focusing on jobs. His promises were and are empty and meaningless, but that's another issue entirely.

# ? Nov 11, 2016 15:40

mcvey: Aug 31, 2006; go caps haha

*Washington Capitals #1 Fan On DeviantArt*

Pollyanna posted:

The DNC overestimated their own intelligence. They lost their own loving lock states.

If the threat of "President Donald Trump" isn't motivation enough to vote yeah you guys are loving duuuuuuummb.

# ? Nov 11, 2016 15:41

mcmagic: Jul 1, 2004; If you see this avatar while scrolling the succ zone, you have been visited by the mcmagic of shitty lib takes! Good luck and prosperity will come to you, but only if you reply "shut the fuck up mcmagic" to this post!

I think Keith Ellison is one of the 10 best members of congress but the fact that Shumer is supporting him for DNC chair makes me nervous that the door is opening a little too easily. Maybe he thinks it will take some air out of the people calling for his own head?

# ? Nov 11, 2016 15:41

Unzip and Attack: Mar 3, 2008; USPOL May

mcvey posted:

DNC overestimated the intelligence of the American people.

And underestimated the power of the media to equate spotty IT policy compliance with serial sexual assault, overt racism/misogyny, an astounding lack of basic knowledge of governance (Saudi Arabia should have nukes guys),and general misanthropy toward anyone not a Christian white male.

Yes it's true that Clinton was a flawed candidate, but all this coddling of the millions of dipshits that didn't vote because of Goldman Sachs speeches can gently caress off. The willful ignorance/apathy of moderate white America bears the sole blame here. Yeah I know saying this won't make the situation any better re: future strategy, but not saying it doesn't make it untrue either. If you voted for Obama but wouldn't vote for Clinton, Trump is your fault.

# ? Nov 11, 2016 15:42

spotlessd: Sep 8, 2016; by merry exmarx

fosborb posted:

Agreed. Most states have a disproportionate amount of influence due to the EC so good luck reaching a concurrence.

Good luck even succeeding without provoking an even more insane right-wing reaction for basically ever, also. Not that this a good rule that generalizes to every other political platform but even a whiff of vindictive electoral college shenanigans almost assuredly provokes an immediate and violent reaction from people who finally got their outsider through the gate.

# ? Nov 11, 2016 15:43

fknlo: Jul 6, 2009; Fun Shoe

Crossposting from the Kansas thread:

fknlo posted:

Kansas expects budget shortfall around $350 million this fiscal year.

Missouri basically just voted to head down this path and the country itself probably isn't too far behind. Gonna be a fun ride!

Hope you guys are ready for this nationally!

# ? Nov 11, 2016 15:43

mcmagic: Jul 1, 2004; If you see this avatar while scrolling the succ zone, you have been visited by the mcmagic of shitty lib takes! Good luck and prosperity will come to you, but only if you reply "shut the fuck up mcmagic" to this post!

Unzip and Attack posted:

And underestimated the power of the media to equate spotty IT policy compliance with serial sexual assault, overt racism/misogyny, an astounding lack of basic knowledge of governance (Saudi Arabia should have nukes guys),and general misanthropy toward anyone not a Christian white male.

Yes it's true that Clinton was a flawed candidate, but all this coddling of the millions of dipshits that didn't vote because of Goldman Sachs speeches can gently caress off. The willful ignorance/apathy of moderate white America bears the sole blame here. Yeah I know saying this won't make the situation any better re: future strategy, but not saying it doesn't make it untrue either.

Blaming the voters is never a productive political strategy. This is on their candidate. It's not like democrats can't win these states with good candidates.

# ? Nov 11, 2016 15:44

Inferior Third Season: Jan 15, 2005

Kilroy posted:

Yeah if we keep running midterms the way we did in 2010 and 2014, we're hosed. So don't do that.

The Democrats had a good year in 2006 when they took poo poo seriously and forced the GOP to defend seats. Captured the House, the Senate, and the majority of governorships and statehouses. We need a fifty-state strategy again and I think we're going to get it. We should have been doing it all along.

In 2006, Bush had two wars that were going badly, and a disastrous response to Hurricane Katrina. I don't think Trump is going to be breaking any approval rating records in his first two years, but he will have to do some work to match how bad Bush 2006 was.

I think the real dangers with Trump are not the crazy and outrageous things we all fear, but the utter mundane things that are none-the-less expansive in scope and terrible in consequences but are not so easy to rally the troops against. Things like standing by while his FCC lets network neutrality die, and making extremely conservative judicial appointments, and not doing anything about climate change, and doing nothing to stop the police from murdering people while AG Guiliani blames the victims.

I really have strong doubts in the Democrats to turn out in midterms without "sexy" political disasters driving them en masse.

# ? Nov 11, 2016 15:43

greatn: Nov 15, 2006; by Lowtax

mcmagic posted:

I think Keith Ellison is one of the 10 best members of congress but the fact that Shumer is supporting him for DNC chair makes me nervous that the door is opening a little too easily. Maybe he thinks it will take some air out of the people calling for his own head?

That's exactly why. Bernie was about to run against him for Senate minority leader.

# ? Nov 11, 2016 15:43

Nebalebadingdong: Jun 30, 2005; i made a video game.
why not give it a try!?

I agree its not fair that the electoral college gave working class whites the self destruct button. Others deserve to wield that button even more. But that is irrelevant now.

I agree that the electorate is racist, but you have to accept that there is not a thing you can do about it.

It sucks that people can be apathetic about voting. There's nothing you can do about that either.

Its the left's loving JOB to fight for economic justice, even for people who are racist. Donald Trump threatened factory owners with economic sanctions on behalf of workers. It doesn't matter if he's full of poo poo. The democratic party does not and did not stand for economic justice, so regardless of however progressive its little platform was, it buckled at the weakest point. The useless Dems let honest-to-god white supremacists steal Truth from them.

This is not about "dialogue" with working-class whites. Its not about understanding or feeling their pain, or caring about them on a personal level one single iota. If an idiot spouts racist garbage, you slap their poo poo and then you fight for justice for them all the harder.

The democratic party hurts non-white, non-rust belt people too, of course. Obviously they will not move to Donald Trump in droves, but instead they just don't show up at the polls. I don't blame them.

People are posting these dumb articles about "rural whites living in a bubble" not because its true (it is true! it doesn't matter!), but because they desperately want to shy away from their responsibility to fight for those people. Others are still complaining about the media, about Comey, about whatever. Maybe its true that without the dumb emails, Clinton could've eked out a victory, but then we'd still be limping along with the lovely status-quo. Shout down these mealy-mouthed bastards and embrace this chance to build something new.

# ? Nov 11, 2016 15:45

Paradoxish: Dec 19, 2003; Will you stop going crazy in there?

fknlo posted:

Crossposting from the Kansas thread:

Hope you guys are ready for this nationally!

I feel like the Democrats hosed up so goddamn hard by not pushing how utterly disastrous Republican policy has been at a state level. This election is reminding me of how absolutely soul crushing it was to be a politically active Democrat in the early 2000s.

# ? Nov 11, 2016 15:45

mcvey: Aug 31, 2006; go caps haha

*Washington Capitals #1 Fan On DeviantArt*

mcmagic posted:

Blaming the voters is never a productive political strategy. This is on their candidate.

In a normal election, totally. This wasn't a normal election.

# ? Nov 11, 2016 15:47

mcmagic: Jul 1, 2004; If you see this avatar while scrolling the succ zone, you have been visited by the mcmagic of shitty lib takes! Good luck and prosperity will come to you, but only if you reply "shut the fuck up mcmagic" to this post!

greatn posted:

That's exactly why. Bernie was about to run against him for Senate minority leader.

Is there reporting on this? I haven't heard it anywhere.

# ? Nov 11, 2016 15:47

CommieGIR: Aug 22, 2006; The blue glow is a feature, not a bug; Pillbug

John_A_Tallon posted:

They Toxx'd and lost their bets.

Poster in question donated to RAINN per the realigned toxx.

# ? Nov 11, 2016 15:48

jBrereton: May 30, 2013; Grimey Drawer

Mnoba posted:

hrmm here says London. It was on CNN last night.

https://www.whitehouse.gov/1600/first-ladies/louisaadams

Oh yeah theres 2 john adams' *shuffles off in shame*

# ? Nov 11, 2016 15:47

mcmagic: Jul 1, 2004; If you see this avatar while scrolling the succ zone, you have been visited by the mcmagic of shitty lib takes! Good luck and prosperity will come to you, but only if you reply "shut the fuck up mcmagic" to this post!

John_A_Tallon posted:

They Toxx'd and lost their bets.

Hopefully everyone who was banned is allowed to come back. This election brought out the worst in everyone.

# ? Nov 11, 2016 15:48

iospace: Jan 19, 2038

Deadly Ham Sandwich posted:

Those are all swing states. They only seemed solid blue because Obama won them by a large margin by being a great candidate.

All those states haven't gone red since what, 84, 88?

# ? Nov 11, 2016 15:50

Crowsbeak: Oct 9, 2012; by Azathoth; Lipstick Apathy

Nebalebadingdong posted:

I agree its not fair that the electoral college gave working class whites the self destruct button. Others deserve to wield that button even more. But that is irrelevant now.

I agree that the electorate is racist, but you have to accept that there is not a thing you can do about it.

It sucks that people can be apathetic about voting. There's nothing you can do about that either.

Its the left's loving JOB to fight for economic justice, even for people who are racist. Donald Trump threatened factory owners with economic sanctions on behalf of workers. It doesn't matter if he's full of poo poo. The democratic party does not and did not stand for economic justice, so regardless of however progressive its little platform was, it buckled at the weakest point. The useless Dems let honest-to-god white supremacists steal Truth from them.

This is not about "dialogue" with working-class whites. Its not about understanding or feeling their pain, or caring about them on a personal level one single iota. If an idiot spouts racist garbage, you slap their poo poo and then you fight for justice for them all the harder.

The democratic party hurts non-white, non-rust belt people too, of course. Obviously they will not move to Donald Trump in droves, but instead they just don't show up at the polls. I don't blame them.

People are posting these dumb articles about "rural whites living in a bubble" not because its true (it is true! it doesn't matter!), but because they desperately want to shy away from their responsibility to fight for those people. Others are still complaining about the media, about Comey, about whatever. Maybe its true that without the dumb emails, Clinton could've eked out a victory, but then we'd still be limping along with the lovely status-quo. Shout down these mealy-mouthed bastards and embrace this chance to build something new.

This, we need to tell the neoliberals who want us to continue on the course that lost us the election to get out.

Unzip and Attack posted:

And underestimated the power of the media to equate spotty IT policy compliance with serial sexual assault, overt racism/misogyny, an astounding lack of basic knowledge of governance (Saudi Arabia should have nukes guys),and general misanthropy toward anyone not a Christian white male.

Yes it's true that Clinton was a flawed candidate, but all this coddling of the millions of dipshits that didn't vote because of Goldman Sachs speeches can gently caress off. The willful ignorance/apathy of moderate white America bears the sole blame here. Yeah I know saying this won't make the situation any better re: future strategy, but not saying it doesn't make it untrue either. If you voted for Obama but wouldn't vote for Clinton, Trump is your fault.

It is ,but then a party and a candidates responsibility is to get people to vote. They didn't. So it is the fault of the neoliberals.

# ? Nov 11, 2016 15:51

Unzip and Attack: Mar 3, 2008; USPOL May

mcmagic posted:

Blaming the voters is never a productive political strategy. This is on their candidate. It's not like democrats can't win these states with good candidates.

Basically what I'm saying is that if you voted for Obama because he made your heart flutter with his speeches but didn't vote for Hillary because she didn't, it's a tragedy that the rights of minorities have to suffer because of your emotional immaturity. Again I'm not talking strategy, I'm just pointing out what's true. The sooner we're open about needing to draft style over substance the better.

Crowsbeak posted:

It is ,but then a party and a candidates responsibility is to get people to vote. They didn't. So it is the fault of the neoliberals.

We have a fundamental disagreement here. It is a citizen's civic duty to vote. If they don't because a candidate didn't convince them to, it's still their fault because the voter is the one with the agency and the choice.

# ? Nov 11, 2016 15:51

mcmagic: Jul 1, 2004; If you see this avatar while scrolling the succ zone, you have been visited by the mcmagic of shitty lib takes! Good luck and prosperity will come to you, but only if you reply "shut the fuck up mcmagic" to this post!

We will GREATLY miss Harry Reid in the senate these next 4 years.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cw_P0sFW8AAb-p9.jpg:large

# ? Nov 11, 2016 15:50

greatn: Nov 15, 2006; by Lowtax

mcmagic posted:

Hopefully everyone who was banned is allowed to come back. This election brought out the worst in everyone.

No, not everyone. Plenty of people weren't foolish or prideful enough to make a bet with no actual reward.

# ? Nov 11, 2016 15:51

try the new taco place: Jan 4, 2004; hey mister... can u play drums while I sing and play plastic guitar???

CommieGIR posted:

Poster in question donated to RAINN per the realigned toxx.

Lowtax realigned it again to "literally everyone banned no matter what"

# ? Nov 11, 2016 15:52

mcmagic: Jul 1, 2004; If you see this avatar while scrolling the succ zone, you have been visited by the mcmagic of shitty lib takes! Good luck and prosperity will come to you, but only if you reply "shut the fuck up mcmagic" to this post!

Unzip and Attack posted:

Basically what I'm saying is that if you voted for Obama because he made your heart flutter with his speeches but didn't vote for Hillary because she didn't, it's a tragedy that the rights of minorities have to suffer because of your emotional immaturity. Again I'm not talking strategy, I'm just pointing out what's true. The sooner we're open about needing to draft style over substance the better.

An Obama-Obama-Trump voter is a species of stupid piece of poo poo that I didn't believe could exist in the world. I'll say that here but I don't know how productive it is going forward as a bedrock of organizing. We need to get our votes out because they are enough to win with.

# ? Nov 11, 2016 15:52

Crowsbeak: Oct 9, 2012; by Azathoth; Lipstick Apathy

icantfindaname posted:

I know what will re-energize the Millenials for the Dems: blame the left

Just look at how Neoliberals work in Europe, its their instinct. They can't be failed because they sold out the workers, its the workers fault they didn't vote for the people selling them out.

# ? Nov 11, 2016 15:53

HorseRenoir: Dec 25, 2011; Pillbug

Chuck Schumer endorsing Ellison bodes really well for Dem rebuilding, I think. Even if Bernie doesn't replace Schumer, it looks like the establishment is willingly ceding power to the New Left instead of going full on civil war like Labour did after Brexit. It helps that I don't really think the Bernie and Schumer wings are that ideologically opposed to one another, they just had different ideas on how to appeal to voters and Plan A failed so now they're running with Plan B.

# ? Nov 11, 2016 15:55

Unzip and Attack: Mar 3, 2008; USPOL May

mcmagic posted:

An Obama-Obama-Trump voter is a species of stupid piece of poo poo that I didn't believe could exist in the world. I'll say that here but I don't know how productive it is going forward as a bedrock of organizing. We need to get our votes out because they are enough to win with.

I don't disagree but I'd add that before we can start formulating strategy, we've got to take a serious introspective look at what happened and why. Identifying that charisma matters far more than policy and that even the tiniest scandal in a progressive candidate's history makes them DOA against a serial sexual predator is something we need to assume from now on.

# ? Nov 11, 2016 15:56

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# ? Jun 6, 2024 09:17

Crowsbeak: Oct 9, 2012; by Azathoth; Lipstick Apathy

HorseRenoir posted:

Chuck Schumer endorsing Ellison bodes really well for Dem rebuilding, I think. Even if Bernie doesn't replace Schumer, it looks like the establishment is willingly ceding power to the New Left instead of going full on civil war like Labour did after Brexit. It helps that I don't really think the Bernie and Schumer wings are that ideologically opposed to one another, they just had different ideas on how to appeal to voters and Plan A failed so now they're running with Plan B.

IT also helps that unlike with Labour in 2015, where Labour saw a idiot candidate who was partially meant to be a compromise get crushed here we saw the establishments golden girl fall.

# ? Nov 11, 2016 15:55

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > uspol november: as it turns out they could not stump the trump

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