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Battle Royale Baby posted:Criss post but holy poo poo Chuck Schumer is a fan of Son of Sam rip neoliberalism, hail satan Sir Tonk posted:No way, I'm actually surprised that Schumer is backing Ellison. same but at the same time if even a hack like Schumer sees which way the wind is blowing, 
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Nov 11, 2016 16:16
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Thoguh posted:I'd also be interested to see what happens to the Clinton Foundation now that their power and influence in DC is heavily diminished. I'm gonna go out on a limb and say donations, especially from foreign governments, fall considerably. Yes holy poo poo I almost forgot about the foundation. Was there direct illegal activity (lol like Trump's fake rear end charity), probably not. Did it represent elite networking though? Absolutely. Clinton was and fundamentally corrupt politician. Not like USSR embezzling or quid pro quo, but defiantly beholden to big donors. Those same big donors to her campaign donated to the Clinton foundation and had face to face meetings with the upper echelons of political power. Not to say the charity doesn't do solid work. It has probably saved and improved tens, if not hundreds of thousands of lives or more with clean water and poo poo. But especially in politics, you can't have your cake and eat it too. Is the Clinton Foundation a legitimate charity or a political extension? The answer is both but it fed heavily into the narrative of corruption.
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Nov 11, 2016 16:16
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comedyblissoption posted:hillary campaigned on villifying trump and a green cartoon frog more than pushing any populist policy yep! It turns out that if you don't sell a message to the voters, all the GOTV and data in the world won't matter. Run up the margins among progressives in Brooklyn and Los Angeles all you want. It won't matter.
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Nov 11, 2016 16:18
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Companies have tried to build factories in those areas but backed out because no one was educated enough to do the jobs.
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Nov 11, 2016 16:20
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Typo posted:100 years from now historians might still be debating whether trump was actually playing 5-D chess or was just a bumbling idiot who stumbled into the presidency cuz everyone else hosed up It's absolutely the latter. Clinton lost margins of victory so razor thin that every single mistake was decisive.
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Nov 11, 2016 16:22
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A GIANT PARSNIP posted:Hey I wanted to thank you for sticking with this thread, and I really hope others from the campaign are watching this thread and taking notes. Mods please sticky this post.
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Nov 11, 2016 16:22
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having a more balanced platform of progressive policies is absolutely not the lesson the dnc should learn here, nor should they refocus and continue down the bright white capt picard path of moral rectitude
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Nov 11, 2016 16:22
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Could someone enlighten me as to what 'third-way' politics means in the US because here it's fascism
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Nov 11, 2016 16:23
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lol as it turns out being a centrist is what makes you unelectable
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Nov 11, 2016 16:26
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Typo posted:100 years from now historians might still be debating whether trump was actually playing 5-D chess or was just a bumbling idiot who stumbled into the presidency cuz everyone else hosed up A loving qdoba burrito would have won if it promised to poo poo salsa all over DC. The system is designed for this to happen. It's a pressure valve. We should thank our loving lucky stars that the orange idiot king got elected, because HRC sure as poo poo wasn't going to fix the structural problems that caused this anger and it's very likely the 2020 iteration would have worn armbands. Instead the Democratic Party is now completely out of power, and because of that it's the rightful heir to the anger that caused all of this. For gently caress's sake every election in the last decade besides 2012 has been a huge gently caress you to whoever held power. 2006, 2008, 2010, 2014, 2016 - all were a huge gently caress you to whoever had power. We have weeks to months now where the Democratic Party is reforming. It needs to reform in a way that offers real solutions to the massive amounts of people who have been sold the gently caress out by the capitalist class. If it doesn't we'll win in 2018 and 2020, but 2022 and 2024 are going to bring the GOP back into power and this time they'll have loving armbands on.
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Nov 11, 2016 16:26
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Thoguh posted:I'd also be interested to see what happens to the Clinton Foundation now that their power and influence in DC is heavily diminished. I'm gonna go out on a limb and say donations, especially from foreign governments, fall considerably. The Clinton Foundation will be fine. They were first and foremost a charitable foundation, and only really trail the UN and Gates Foundation in terms of non-state international development. Before the primaries, smart money would have been on Hillary getting crushed by the GOP establishment. At most, the Clintons would be able to connect donors with other power brokers, and they are still going to be able to do so.
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Nov 11, 2016 16:25
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mossyfisk posted:Could someone enlighten me as to what 'third-way' politics means in the US because here it's fascism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_Way Bill Clinton and Tony Blair's left
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Nov 11, 2016 16:26
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Thoguh posted:I'd also be interested to see what happens to the Clinton Foundation now that their power and influence in DC is heavily diminished. I'm gonna go out on a limb and say donations, especially from foreign governments, fall considerably. That's probably why that rumor of Chelsea being groomed for a congressional run got started
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Nov 11, 2016 16:25
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Al! posted:more importantly, you can promise to do those things regardless of whether you have the inclination or even ability to do them Starting off the new campaign by openly declaring your insincerity is part of why you lost. Any notion that the new party isn't genuine in its stated goals has to be smothered in the crib. There's not gonna be any place for you if you're going to keep doing this glib bullshit.
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Nov 11, 2016 16:27
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:Nobody is holding this against Clinton's supporters (who weren't counter-productive assholes), but it's not exactly fair to pin all the blame on Clinton herself. She is ultimately responsible, yes, but her surrogates turned off a lot of women bigly. Nope it want her surrogates that turned off women, it was the candidate. That doesn't mean Clinton personally did things to piss off women. The RWM poo poo on her for 20 years with conspiracy nonsense and ivory tower elitism. People HATED Hillary going into the primaries, and the response then and in the general was to shame the haters. Sure a lot of the hate is unfounded, but progressives and conservatives both had legitimate gripes. The hubris of Hillary and her team thinking they could shame her haters into voting for her is astounding. Tear the whole drat DNC down, they failed epically on a national level almost entirely because Hillary was the Chosen One.
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Nov 11, 2016 16:26
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Fiction posted:I'm just hoping the centrists who insist that Hillary did not fail and was failed just take their ball and go home completely. Agree on that. The fact remains the democrats lost to an orange-faced idiot. That alone is a fireable offense
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Nov 11, 2016 16:29
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mossyfisk posted:Could someone enlighten me as to what 'third-way' politics means in the US because here it's fascism It was the decision by notionally left-wing parties (e.g. Democrats under Clinton, New Labour under Blair) to pivot away from their traditional concerns with the working-class and the labour union movement, to better target middle-class voters. The idea was that by occupying the political centre and by accepting neo-liberal economic reforms, they would pick up a bigger share of the vote. They would take more middle-class votes, and would retain the working-class vote because - after all - who else are the working class likely to vote for? It was basically a political realignment which allowed the growth of xenophobic, right-wing movements to take over the electoral space that the mainstream left-wing parties had vacated.
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Nov 11, 2016 16:30
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Blurred posted:It was basically a political realignment which allowed the growth of xenophobic, right-wing movements to take over the electoral space that the mainstream left-wing parties had vacated. This actually isn't true: those were a reaction against increased immigration and perceived excess of the federal government like waco and ruby ridge
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Nov 11, 2016 16:31
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mossyfisk posted:Could someone enlighten me as to what 'third-way' politics means in the US because here it's fascism Apparently it means that here too, just through the mechanism of loving up elections in an unbelievably massive way.
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Nov 11, 2016 16:31
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A GIANT PARSNIP posted:We can 100% offer solutions to this as a party without sacrificing a single god drat thing. We can build green energy factories in these counties. We can build research centers in these counties. We can build healthcare centers in these counties. Take whatever liberal priority you can think of and we can build something here to help fix things nationally and help these people locally. People don't believe those claims, no matter how credible or detailed a plan you lay out. A steel worker is not going believe that the green energy factories are coming to their town, or even if they did, that they would be given jobs in it. When coal miners were interviewed over the last year, they all said the same thing - "I'm a coal miner, my dad was a coal miner, mining coal is all I know how to do.". If you promise to bring back coal, and that steel mills will be hiring tens of thousands of workers - people are going to support that over the idea that they have a place in the new economy.
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Nov 11, 2016 16:33
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Blurred posted:It was the decision by notionally left-wing parties (e.g. Democrats under Clinton, New Labour under Blair) to pivot away from their traditional concerns with the working-class and the labour union movement, to better target middle-class voters. The idea was that by occupying the political centre and by accepting neo-liberal economic reforms, they would pick up a bigger share of the vote. They would take more middle-class votes, and would retain the working-class vote because - after all - who else are the working class likely to vote for? That's one way to look at it. Another way to look at it is the capitalist class taking over supposedly liberal parties and turning people's options into "right wing party" and "right wing lite party".
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Nov 11, 2016 16:34
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Typo posted:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_Way the precursor to fascism, rather than fascism itself
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Nov 11, 2016 16:34
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:Starting off the new campaign by openly declaring your insincerity is part of why you lost. Any notion that the new party isn't genuine in its stated goals has to be smothered in the crib. There's not gonna be any place for you if you're going to keep doing this glib bullshit. dont want to give you the impression i give a poo poo bout the future of the dems or god forbid hrc, thsts my legit criticism as an anarchist 
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Nov 11, 2016 16:36
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:It's absolutely the latter. Clinton lost margins of victory so razor thin that every single mistake was decisive. and boy were there a lot of loving mistakes
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Nov 11, 2016 16:37
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TyrantWD posted:People don't believe those claims, no matter how credible or detailed a plan you lay out. A steel worker is not going believe that the green energy factories are coming to their town, or even if they did, that they would be given jobs in it. When coal miners were interviewed over the last year, they all said the same thing - "I'm a coal miner, my dad was a coal miner, mining coal is all I know how to do.". If you promise to bring back coal, and that steel mills will be hiring tens of thousands of workers - people are going to support that over the idea that they have a place in the new economy. "I'm gonna drop a factory right into the middle of this town, and we're gonna make the fuckers who sold you out pay for it!" is going to win you votes, dude.
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Nov 11, 2016 16:37
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DaveWoo posted:I dunno, my progressive friends apparently hate Warren now because she didn't endorse Bernie in the primary. bloodless careerists in the party & bloodless careerists in the media all lined up in support of the ultimate careerist seeking the ultimate job and now the whole world will suffer for it (except maybe syria). I really like the tenor of this thread because I feel like the only way to stop this from happening again is to recognize it and shout it down and mobilize in the streets against it when it starts happening next time. There's that puff piece already out getting behind Cory Booker as a rising star. Look at Obama's turnout in 2008 and then 2012 and then Hillary in 2016. People are steadily giving up on the dems because their neoliberalism is leaving them to suffer while enriching the careerists and elites. Even if we win with a Booker, we lose next time as an ever greater piece of the electorate gives up.
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Nov 11, 2016 16:39
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RasperFat posted:Nope it want her surrogates that turned off women, it was the candidate.  At some point, people are going to have to accept that plenty of Democratic voters didn't hate Hillary and some even loved her. The Clintons helped save John Lewis' seat in the insurrection by anti-LGBT black candidates in the 1992 primary in Atlanta and it's a big reason she has so many supporters here. Just because her general election campaign went to poo poo doesn't mean you can rewrite the last 25 years. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Nov 11, 2016 16:41
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TyrantWD posted:People don't believe those claims, no matter how credible or detailed a plan you lay out. A steel worker is not going believe that the green energy factories are coming to their town, or even if they did, that they would be given jobs in it. When coal miners were interviewed over the last year, they all said the same thing - "I'm a coal miner, my dad was a coal miner, mining coal is all I know how to do.". If you promise to bring back coal, and that steel mills will be hiring tens of thousands of workers - people are going to support that over the idea that they have a place in the new economy. "We're going to build a factory" is a lot more concrete and real than "We're going to make some funds available for re-training after we ship your job elsewhere so some shareholders can make a 1% increase on the stock price but it isn't going to matter because there isn't anything around to be trained to do anymore because everything is dead, thanks".
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Nov 11, 2016 16:41
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tadashi posted:People hated Hillary so much that she swept the Southern states and crushed Bernie in Pennsylvania. 
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Nov 11, 2016 16:41
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Al! posted:more importantly, you can promise to do those things regardless of whether you have the inclination or even ability to do them i got a busy day today so i wont be able to keep up with this thread but i just want to chime in and say that i agree with this i na dark dark part of my heart i'm sick and loving tired of the democrats having to play by the rules when republicans have been ignoring them for loving decades tell people you are going to help them. try to put together a plan that should help them. but most importantly point out that YOU want to help them and the republicans are the ones that have been loving them in the rear end for decades
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Nov 11, 2016 16:42
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Thoguh posted:"We're going to build a factory" is a lot more concrete and real than "We're going to make some funds available for re-training after we ship your job elsewhere so some shareholders can make a 1% increase on the stock price but it isn't going to matter because there isn't anything around to be trained to do anymore because everything is dead, thanks". Also we're gonna make some funds available for re-training, but once you've re-trained there still won't be any jobs in your county.
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Nov 11, 2016 16:43
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Maybe we can teach them all how to code and West Virginia will become the new Silicon Valley!
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Nov 11, 2016 16:44
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democrats 2018: no war but class war has a beautiful ring to it imho
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Nov 11, 2016 16:45
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tadashi posted:People hated Hillary so much that she swept the Southern states and crushed Bernie in Pennsylvania. Counterpoint: 
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Nov 11, 2016 16:45
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A GIANT PARSNIP posted:Maybe we can teach them all how to code and West Virginia will become the new Silicon Valley! All WV and Eastern KY needs to understand is that their ultimate victory against the liberal elites in California would be to steal all their jobs by giving software companies the chance to fire all the well-paid people in CA by giving their jobs to people willing to work for poo poo wages in Appalachia. It would be great if people in rural KY picked up on the idea that they could work from where they live but nobody who has that kind of upward aspiration wants to live there their whole life.
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Nov 11, 2016 16:46
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tadashi posted:People hated Hillary so much that she swept the Southern states and crushed Bernie in Pennsylvania. man, she did so great in the South compared to Bernie, she absolutely should have won this has to be a joke post
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Nov 11, 2016 16:46
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"Boy howdy, that Hillary, she did so well in a primary she helped rig in her favor with people who love her! Look at all those southern states she won and then lost in the GE while not paying attention to states she lost in the primaries. God I love her!" -an idiot
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Nov 11, 2016 16:49
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VikingSkull posted:man, she did so great in the South compared to Bernie, she absolutely should have won At some point you have to realize what's done is done and stop banging the drum for the same poo poo the GOP has been hammering into people's heads for 25 years. You can say the campaign was poo poo and realize this at the same time.
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Nov 11, 2016 16:48
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Harry Reid's statement: http://www.reid.senate.gov/press_releases/2016-11-11-reid-statement-on-the-election-of-donald-trump#.WCXUjsQ8KnMquote:“I have personally been on the ballot in Nevada for 26 elections and I have never seen anything like the reaction to the election completed last Tuesday. The election of Donald Trump has emboldened the forces of hate and bigotry in America.
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Nov 11, 2016 16:50
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tadashi posted:People hated Hillary so much that she swept the Southern states and crushed Bernie in Pennsylvania. To more seriously reply. Yes, the democratic establishment loved Hillary. They loved her so much they did everything in their power to make sure she became the nominee without having to struggle through a tough primary and then they did everything in their power to make sure she became president. The thing was that nobody other than the democratic establishment loved Hillary and a lot of people outside the democratic establishment downright hated her.
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Nov 11, 2016 16:49
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