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Main Paineframe posted:Yeah! The Dems should do something for poor people and the working class, like guaranteeing access to cheap healthcare and banning insurance companies from dumping them. Or maybe they could create stimulus by backing and funding infrastructure growth like transit lines and oil pipelines. They could support union rights and pro-worker policies with things like the CFPB and the NLRB. Maybe they could even expand unemployment programs and welfare systems to unprecedented levels while funding economic development and job retraining! Too bad the white working class overwhelmingly voted against those policies in favor of "gently caress immigrants, all your jobs will magically come back if we deport them and cut taxes on the rich". this is worth repeating - it's not like the democrats ignored rural poverty. there's not a whole lot the federal government can do if republican-dominated state legislatures aren't willing to play ball, or a republican congress keeps stonewalling meaningful reform, etc. the economic demands of many trump voters are unrealistic. refusing to cater to unrealistic demands is not the same as ignoring them. my toddler wants to eat yogurt all the time but she can't, so she tantrums, and i give her something else instead. she's not going hungry, she's just not getting what she wants (to eat yogurt for every meal)
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Nov 11, 2016 18:26
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Potato Salad posted:Utterly false now. News networks go for the most exciting story. In the election, that story was "wow this is a neck-and-neck race! they're both bad! who's gonna win?". Why are you expecting them to suddenly change their tune and go "wow everything is fine now! no problems here!" now that the election is over? What's exciting about that?
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Nov 11, 2016 18:26
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Remember when the Democratic Party was killed in 2004
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Nov 11, 2016 18:27
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Tiberius Christ posted:Yeah those loving rubes have no idea what they're doing, however, I as the enlightened liberal will correct them. How's that talking down to rural americans working out for us for messaging? Who was mean to you? 
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Nov 11, 2016 18:29
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lmao [–]Romobyl 5247 points 11 hours ago "You're telling me that I'm losing my job because Donald Trump won the election? WHY, BECAUSE I'M BLACK?!" "Mister President, we've been over this..."
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Nov 11, 2016 18:30
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Mnoba posted:lmao LOL THOSE BLACKS HEH
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Nov 11, 2016 18:31
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Spacebump posted:Lol if you don't think he will just tell his supporters they aren't doing great because Obama and he needs more time. I think this is probably a huge reason why McConnell has backed off on ditching the filibuster. They know the Democrats won't keep feeding the Republicans enough rope to hang themselves and they might have enough of an excuse to fight off the inevitable primary challengers when Hillary isn't in jail in January.
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Nov 11, 2016 18:31
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Fojar38 posted:Remember when the Democratic Party was killed in 2004 I'm starting to think neither party is going to die any time soon.
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Nov 11, 2016 18:31
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Deified Data posted:It's gonna be bad for the next couple months. Let him ease into the White House for a bit and the media will lose any incentive to make him look presidential - to the contrary, they'll have every motivation to tear him apart the next time he says something stupid and sensational. We know this is a when not if scenario. Just like they would during the election lmao
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Nov 11, 2016 18:32
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Main Paineframe posted:To say that the Democrats neglected economic policy is absurd. They pushed economic policies, and pushed them, and pushed them, and all they ended up doing was losing over and over to the very people who were blocking those policies and actively screwing their own constituents just to spite the Democrats. It's become quite clear that the white working class doesn't want solutions and they don't want help, they just want someone to blame. It is now obvious to me that the lower classes are not equipped even remotely to participate in our great system of government. They've voted against their own best interests for the last time. Fortunately, they have us college-educated liberals to act as their benefactor and guardian, and once they hand their votes over to us we can finally start being the responsible parent that they desperately need.
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Nov 11, 2016 18:32
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Butch Cassidy posted:Very at-risk and you are massively lacking empathy. Cannon is located in one of the lowest income parts of the state. Senior skiing is free. They can show up with whatever gear they can cobble together , get fresh air, actual exercise during the cold months, and hang around with peer in the lodge between runs. The state wanted to institute $20 passes for them to increase yearly to a cap TBD. $20 is a lot more to a social security dependent senior than it is to a the seacoast politicians pushing for the bill. And that is $20 per day at a deathtrap and poorly maintained mountain so they go from skiing all they want to hoping they can afford some. and did you know 20% of "poor" people have a refrigerator???
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Nov 11, 2016 18:32
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Surely the frail shut-in elderly who never see a soul except EMS are a different group than the hale and hearty elderly for whom cheap skiiing is an important social outlet? I do care that both groups do well, but Republicans typically want to cut services to the absolute bone, so that the poor don't die of starvation but even a TV is too much luxury. So it seems so... un-Republican to care about the elderly who are basically OK on their own (although facing a lower standard of living than they might like.)
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Nov 11, 2016 18:32
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Squashing Machine posted:It is now obvious to me that the lower classes are not equipped even remotely to participate in our great system of government. They've voted against their own best interests for the last time. Fortunately, they have us college-educated liberals to act as their benefactor and guardian, and once they hand their votes over to us we can finally start being the responsible parent that they desperately need. lmao you did not read and understand the post you are mad about
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Nov 11, 2016 18:33
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Squashing Machine posted:It is now obvious to me that the lower classes are not equipped even remotely to participate in our great system of government. They've voted against their own best interests for the last time. Fortunately, they have us college-educated liberals to act as their benefactor and guardian, and once they hand their votes over to us we can finally start being the responsible parent that they desperately need. Just spitballing here, but maybe we could restrict voting rights to white land-holding males or something.
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Nov 11, 2016 18:34
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Fitzy Fitz posted:Just spitballing here, but maybe we could restrict voting rights to white land-holding males or something. This is going nowhere good and gently caress this gently caress you. yes, I get the joke I know
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Nov 11, 2016 18:34
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Lessail posted:Just like they would during the election lmao They had a vested interested in making Clinton appear to be just as controversial as Trump. Trump isn't running against anyone anymore. Just wait for it. It'll happen. He can't behave himself forever. Do we really expect him to keep up the gracious winner act?
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Nov 11, 2016 18:35
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Meanwhile, at the newspaper that was overly focused on EMAILS, CLINTON CASH, and other "THIS LOOKS BAD, but is perfectly fine, BUT IT LOOKS THAT WAY!" poo poo on Clinton: https://twitter.com/SamSifton/status/797123116233330688
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Nov 11, 2016 18:34
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Main Paineframe posted:To say that the Democrats neglected economic policy is absurd. They pushed economic policies, and pushed them, and pushed them, and all they ended up doing was losing over and over to the very people who were blocking those policies and actively screwing their own constituents just to spite the Democrats. It's become quite clear that the white working class doesn't want solutions and they don't want help, they just want someone to blame. It's messaging more than anything else. Like, I think people really need to look at these exit polls and understand what this means:  The takeaway here is that people view the nation's economy through a filter of political affiliation, not through any rational measure. Clinton voter? You probably think things are pretty good, or at least okay. Trump voter? You probably don't. There's a good chance that these numbers are going to flip around in 2018 and 2020 as Democrats start to view the US economy under Trump more negatively, even if nothing at all changes. Remember that a lot of Trump voters are actually pretty well off, so this is people with good, stable jobs saying that the economy is trash. Given that minorities fare worse by basically every economic measure available, a lot of these Clinton voters who are saying that the economy is pretty good aren't personally doing well. I don't think you need to suddenly shift to a full-on economic focus to capture some of the people who chose to stay home and I don't think you need to back off on the social justice message at all. Where I think the Democrats failed this cycle, aside from having a huge blindspot to just how badly the Republican smear campaign had damaged Hillary Clinton, was in failing to understand that you can't just tell people that things are good if they don't already believe it. Obama's messaging was always about building a better future together, which is fundamentally more optimistic than saying that things are already great.
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Nov 11, 2016 18:36
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BarbarianElephant posted:A man asks a woman which bus to take to the town center. The B73 she replies. He joins the line for the A38 bus. She tells him, "No, that's the wrong line. That will take you out of town." He replies "Yeah, but I don't like the look of that black guy in the other line." She replies "That's a very bigoted reason for not taking the right bus!" He responds "gently caress you bitch, I'll take the loving bus I want to loving take, not some *racial slur* bus." She walks on. You forgot the part where the guy recognizes she is the wife of the factory owner who shipped his and his friends jobs oversees.
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Nov 11, 2016 18:37
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boner confessor posted:this is worth repeating - it's not like the democrats ignored rural poverty. there's not a whole lot the federal government can do if republican-dominated state legislatures aren't willing to play ball, or a republican congress keeps stonewalling meaningful reform, etc. This could be seen as a deliberate strategy. Keep your voters poor and angry, and feed that anger against scapegoats. Obamacare was gently caress all use in the states where the local politicians refused to accept subsidies, but the people there probably didn't see that big picture. All they saw was that they would be fined unless they bought healthcare they couldn't afford - and the Democrats were passing this off as a solution! Meanwhile the blacks in the big cities got generous subsidies for their healthcare! *Blood boils* Crowsbeak posted:You forgot the part where the guy recognizes she is the wife of the factory owner who shipped his and his friends jobs oversees. Factory owners: notorious liberal lefties.
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Nov 11, 2016 18:37
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I don't know if this would actually work but one of my professors sent me this; https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/do-not-allow-myron-ebell-lead-epa-transition
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Nov 11, 2016 18:37
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boner confessor posted:lmao you did not read and understand the post you are mad about I did. He said that the white working class regularly votes against its own interests and isn't even driven by self-interest, but pure spite. If only they understood that the Democratic platform has their best interests at heart, which is the one message our campaign somehow failed to transmit to them despite their heroic efforts
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Nov 11, 2016 18:37
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You guys are making this so much more complicated than it needs to be. Just don't send a loving celebrity who spends twice the median annual income at Neiman to lecture 70 year old coal miners about white privilege.
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Nov 11, 2016 18:38
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iospace posted:Meanwhile, at the newspaper that was overly focused on EMAILS, CLINTON CASH, and other "THIS LOOKS BAD, but is perfectly fine, BUT IT LOOKS THAT WAY!" poo poo on Clinton: Yeah, the Twitter responses demonstrate how screwed the NYT is right now in terms of reaching an audience. The right thinks they're corrupt, and the left knows they're worthless.
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Nov 11, 2016 18:39
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BarbarianElephant posted:This could be seen as a deliberate strategy. Keep your voters poor and angry, and feed that anger against scapegoats. Obamacare was gently caress all use in the states where the local politicians refused to accept subsidies, but the people there probably didn't see that big picture. All they saw was that they would be fined unless they bought healthcare they couldn't afford - and the Democrats were passing this off as a solution! Meanwhile the blacks in the big cities got generous subsidies for their healthcare! *Blood boils* kentucky's health exchange, kynect, was very popular after the tea party governor who promised to destroy it just scraped off the obamacare label politics is complicated and it's a lot easier to just go with your team Squashing Machine posted:I did. He said that the white working class regularly votes against its own interests and isn't even driven by self-interest, but pure spite. If only they understood that the Democratic platform has their best interests at heart, which is the one message our campaign somehow failed to transmit to them despite their heroic efforts swing and a miss. try again. actually, dont
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Nov 11, 2016 18:39
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spotlessd posted:You guys are making this so much more complicated than it needs to be. Just don't send a loving celebrity who spends twice the median annual income at Neiman to lecture 70 year old coal miners about white privilege. Did this ever happen outside your fevered imagination? "White privilege" is an academic concept that you will hear much of if you are at a college in a liberal area, or on a message-board aimed at the under 30s. And nowhere else.
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Nov 11, 2016 18:40
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Crowsbeak posted:You forgot the part where the guy recognizes she is the wife of the factory owner who shipped his and his friends jobs oversees. Factory jobs are gone by and large thanks to automation, not outsourcing, and this is generally the fault of inevitable forces in the private sector, not governmental action. BarbarianElephant posted:Did this ever happen outside your fevered imagination? "White privilege" is an academic concept that you will hear much of if you are at a college in a liberal area, or on a message-board aimed at the under 30s. And nowhere else. I am fairly certain that white privilege has never been a campaign issue; it is discussed on this boards pretty frequently, because it's in important issue and understanding the invisible ways our unequal society privileges you is important (you don't need help to see how you are disadvantaged by it, I trust). So I'm not sure why people are pinning "discussion of white privilege" as The Reason Clinton Lost.
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Nov 11, 2016 18:40
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Quorum posted:Factory jobs are gone by and large thanks to automation, not outsourcing, and this is generally the fault of inevitable forces in the private sector, not governmental action. it's way easy to blame other people for taking your job, but folks who aren't replaced by machines generally like having machines do the hard parts of their jobs for them
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Nov 11, 2016 18:41
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Squashing Machine posted:I did. He said that the white working class regularly votes against its own interests and isn't even driven by self-interest, but pure spite. If only they understood that the Democratic platform has their best interests at heart, which is the one message our campaign somehow failed to transmit to them despite their heroic efforts Is the statement "economically disadvantaged people often vote against their own interests" controversial?
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Nov 11, 2016 18:43
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iospace posted:Meanwhile, at the newspaper that was overly focused on EMAILS, CLINTON CASH, and other "THIS LOOKS BAD, but is perfectly fine, BUT IT LOOKS THAT WAY!" poo poo on Clinton: I hope they lose their defamation lawsuit to Trump with the help of his court picks.
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Nov 11, 2016 18:42
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Paradoxish posted:It's messaging more than anything else. Like, I think people really need to look at these exit polls and understand what this means: This is precisely backwards. Hillary ran on a platform of the economy is just fine, America is already great. As a result, people the economy failed didn't vote for her.
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Nov 11, 2016 18:44
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Tiberius Christ posted:Yeah those loving rubes have no idea what they're doing, however, I as the enlightened liberal will correct them. How's that talking down to rural americans working out for us for messaging? A minority, any minority, is allowed to be angry at the outcome of this election. White dems need to own up their our being smug pieces of poo poo to the working class is what sank this ship.
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Nov 11, 2016 18:43
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Tiberius Christ posted:Yeah those loving rubes have no idea what they're doing, however, I as the enlightened liberal will correct them. How's that talking down to rural americans working out for us for messaging?
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Nov 11, 2016 18:43
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boner confessor posted:this is worth repeating - it's not like the democrats ignored rural poverty. there's not a whole lot the federal government can do if republican-dominated state legislatures aren't willing to play ball, or a republican congress keeps stonewalling meaningful reform, etc. A lot of them want.better roads. Promise jobs from road building. Quorum posted:Factory jobs are gone by and large thanks to automation, not outsourcing, and this is generally the fault of inevitable forces in the private sector, not governmental action. Which enabled the pre automation effort at outsourcing. People are irrational but it's best to. It feed that irrational behavior by running the person they blame for their plight.
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Nov 11, 2016 18:44
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Quorum posted:I am fairly certain that white privilege has never been a campaign issue; it is discussed on this boards pretty frequently, because it's in important issue and understanding the invisible ways our unequal society privileges you is important (you don't need help to see how you are disadvantaged by it, I trust). So I'm not sure why people are pinning "discussion of white privilege" as The Reason Clinton Lost. A lot of Republicans here seem to be confusing things said on SA with things Democrats said on the campaign trail. So if Lucy Lefty the goon said something they disagreed with about Privilege, they somehow remember this as something Michelle Obama said to a disabled veterans group on live TV.
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Nov 11, 2016 18:44
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Deified Data posted:Is the statement "economically disadvantaged people often vote against their own interests" controversial? It's not controversial, but I'd call it dismissive and classist at best. It implies that they're not rational actors. For all of our education and rhetoric, we failed incredibly hard at offering these people a better deal than our opponents did, even if that opposing deal is a pipe dream.
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Nov 11, 2016 18:46
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corn in the bible posted:racism is definitely the only reason that hillary, a white woman, got fewer votes than obama, a black man. Goddamn this line just keeps getting loving stupider and stupider every loving time I read it.
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Nov 11, 2016 18:45
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GladRagKraken posted:This is precisely backwards. Hillary ran on a platform of the economy is just fine, America is already great. As a result, people the economy failed didn't vote for her. You're conveniently ignoring the part of my post where I point out that Trump's voters, in general, aren't any worse off. Here, have more exit poll stuff:  These are people in fundamentally similar economic situations viewing the economy in a drastically different light. Notice how many Clinton voters make under $30k/year.
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Nov 11, 2016 18:47
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boner confessor posted:this is worth repeating - it's not like the democrats ignored rural poverty. there's not a whole lot the federal government can do if republican-dominated state legislatures aren't willing to play ball, or a republican congress keeps stonewalling meaningful reform, etc. Jesus. loving. Christ. 1. No, the existential dread that rust belt states have is not the same as your retarded kid throwing a tantrum over yogurt. 2. The Democrats, the party of free trade and nafta and tpp, never did anything more than pay lip service to the idea of trying to help, with the exception of Bernie. People looked at Clintons wall Street connections and knew she was pandering when she claimed she would help the working class. 3. Once again, the best you can offer these people is " gently caress off and die". I think we have a chicken and the egg problem. Liberaks hate them because they won't listen to you on issues of civil rights, and they won't listen to what you have to say about anything because you offer nothing but contempt.
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Nov 11, 2016 18:48
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Who What Now posted:Goddamn this line just keeps getting loving stupider and stupider every loving time I read it. Sorry reality has a non neoliberal bias.
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Nov 11, 2016 18:48
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