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negromancer posted:The only way white liberals will get their "no war but the class war" is to go out into the communities of the rust belt, talk to their relatives and friends, and get them to stop being such racist asshats.
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Nov 11, 2016 21:56
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DACK FAYDEN posted:What a loving surprise I swear Trump is really an incredibly simple man, he believes whoever most recently told him something in a calm, reassuring, nonthreatening voice. If Obama stayed on full-time to be Trump's President Coach, we might actually see some decent governance. This won't happen and he's surrounded himself with despicable cockgoblins.
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Nov 11, 2016 21:57
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Quorum posted:I swear Trump is really an incredibly simple man, he believes whoever most recently told him something in a calm, reassuring, nonthreatening voice. If Obama stayed on full-time to be Trump's President Coach, we might actually see some decent governance. This won't happen and he's surrounded himself with despicable cockgoblins. Yeah get ready for him to change his mind on this the instant Newt gets his ear.
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Nov 11, 2016 21:57
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boner confessor posted:you may not be aware of this, but american politics are ridiculously polarized and republicans have all-time low levels of trust in the mainstream media apparatus. so please articulate a way in which democrats, centrists, or any other non-republican party media source can rationally point out how republican governance is actively harmful to republican voters Do you see like every other word of my posts, the media is lost and corrupt, and frankly a liability in many respects. Democrats need a grassroots level buzz to counteract the decentralized dissemination of untruths by conservatives. Can't rely on a couple of celebrity talking heads from coastal cities. But once again, the details should be understood by professional strategists and activists attached to party leaders, not by me or you, angry dudes on the internet.
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Nov 11, 2016 21:59
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Spaced God posted:Trump is in a WSJ interview right now, Reuters is giving live updates. Dem mole theory confirmed!
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Nov 11, 2016 21:58
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"Man that Trump is such a dumbass and isn't clearly trying to allay the fears of rioters across the country"
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Nov 11, 2016 21:58
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RaySmuckles posted:1) stop calling them racist, misogynist, bigots THIS IS NOT A loving PLAN. You are legitimately dumb. You have come to a conclusion (everyone should be happy together) and are trying to work backwards but you have no idea how to get to that conclusion so everything from you is buzz words and acting like they are the truly oppressed. And the reason I laughed at you saying radicalised is because you believe they are radicalised but not "racist, misogynist, bigots". If in the contrary you believe they are "racist, misogynist, bigots" but think we should avoid calling them "racist, misogynist, bigots" you are the worst sort of person - a coward.
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Nov 11, 2016 21:59
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paranoid randroid posted:yeah im all in favor of a new CCC, but it still doesnt address the problem that 10-15 years down the line when weve hit carrying capacity for bridges and poo poo, the coal mine still aint reopening I've got way more on my list to rebuild and build new than they do believe it or not and in 10-15 years the boomers are officially out of the workforce. Things will be different. But yes, valid point, I think it will be enough though.
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Nov 11, 2016 21:58
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Tir McDohl posted:Trump gets compared to Berlusconi a lot. Anyone with a good working knowledge of Berlusconi who can give a good summary of what that is going to mean for Trump's presidency? Berlusconi was prosecuted for a bunch of stuff, including abuse of power. He also loved screwing borderline underage escorts and was infamous for passing legislation that prevented him from serving time. http://www.economist.com/news/europe/21709984-americans-could-look-italy-taste-things-come-what-donald-trump-and-silvio A good place to start.
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Nov 11, 2016 21:59
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jBrereton posted:"Man that Trump is such a dumbass and isn't clearly trying to allay the fears of rioters across the country" rioters, huh?
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Nov 11, 2016 22:01
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Admiral Ray posted:It looks more like the job of a politician is to convince people that you have those initiatives and that they'll be easy to implement and won't gently caress up your target voters' lives. Trump doesn't have those initiatives and won against someone that does, but Clinton's initiatives are tainted by her and her historical scandals. Like she could have promised more coal/factories/dildo plants but she didn't because that's not what she thinks are sustainable/what the voters want. People wouldn't have believed her anyway. It is both, convincing people that you can do A Thing, then not loving up your credibility by showing that you can't do A Thing despite no opposition. And if one party can lie to all the people all the time, it is entirely because the other party has thrown their towel into the ring of modern, person oriented political communication.
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Nov 11, 2016 22:00
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Admiral Ray posted:It looks more like the job of a politician is to convince people that you have those initiatives and that they'll be easy to implement and won't gently caress up your target voters' lives. Trump doesn't have those initiatives and won against someone that does, but Clinton's initiatives are tainted by her and her historical scandals. Like she could have promised more coal/factories/dildo plants but she didn't because that's not what she thinks are sustainable/what the voters want. People wouldn't have believed her anyway. (not saying he would have won the election) but people, many of those same people, believed bernie when he said it. how do we bridge that gap? i don't think Bernie was full of poo poo and a liar. he had a trillion dollar make work infrastructure plan and while his ideas may have been basic, they were still ideas that people believed in and with enough political support might have gotten passed
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Nov 11, 2016 22:01
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Spaced God posted:Trump is in a WSJ interview right now, Reuters is giving live updates. I...I don't even know anymore. Jesus Christ.
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Nov 11, 2016 22:00
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I'm really getting sick of reading LIBERAL media pundit's takes that it's offensive to call Trump's voters racist while being silent on his racism and the fear that minorities are facing now. Once again the real PC is calling white people the R word. Lot's of "It's CRAZY to call literally every voter racist" like somehow if only 75% were it's ok. These are the same fucks that basically ignored all his scandals and racism for the entire campaign and now they have the nerve to tell everyone else not to be rude to the guy that is looking to destroy the lives of tons of people because again it's more important to be civil than actually good. MLK had these white moderate fucks pegged years ago and they haven't changed a bit. They'll be writing stories about how people need to be respectful and wear proper attire when they are led to the gallows. Eggplant Squire fucked around with this message at 22:04 on Nov 11, 2016 |
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Nov 11, 2016 22:02
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steinrokkan posted:Democrats need a grassroots level buzz to counteract the decentralized dissemination of untruths by conservatives. Can't rely on a couple of celebrity talking heads from coastal cities. But once again, the details should be understood by professional strategists and activists attached to party leaders, not by me or you, angry dudes on the internet. democrats have this grassroots buzz. these things are largely handled through social media, which makes it super easy to ignore messages that aren't catered to you you're not really capable of articulating a way in which democrats are going to be able to honestly communicate to base level republicans, a group which largely believes that democrats are engaged in all kinds of nefarious schemes from banning guns to buying black votes with welfare payments all the way up to agenda 21 and being literal agents of the Devil, who lives in Hell, etc.
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Nov 11, 2016 22:01
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DACK FAYDEN posted:What a loving surprise lol, I wonder how "uhh I was gonna repeal Obamacare but this Obama guy sure has some great ideas!" is gonna play out with his voters
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Nov 11, 2016 22:01
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boner confessor posted:democrats have this grassroots buzz. these things are largely handled through social media, which makes it super easy to ignore messages that aren't catered to you tbh I say we double down on the sliver of the base that believed Hillary was a literal demon and also voted for her, I think this Infernal Caucus could be a huge strength moving forward
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Nov 11, 2016 22:04
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HorseRenoir posted:lol, I wonder how "uhh I was gonna repeal Obamacare but this Obama guy sure has some great ideas!" is gonna play out with his voters I don't think they give a poo poo about any of his policy stances since he ran a campaign without any of them, really.
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Nov 11, 2016 22:04
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Lid posted:THIS IS NOT A loving PLAN. man you're just itching for a fight, aren't you? i can understand that since your party and candidate just handed the whitehouse to Donald Trump. pretty embarrassing considering you had virtually every possible advantage going into this election. sorry that a SomethingAwful.com forums poster didn't provide you with a satisfactory comprehensive economic plan in two sentences. i think the solution is continue doing exactly what just brought about the rise of Trump and hope that that works out better next time. jeez louise.
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Nov 11, 2016 22:03
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boner confessor posted:democrats have this grassroots buzz. these things are largely handled through social media, which makes it super easy to ignore messages that aren't catered to you Are you kidding, aren't the Republicans like million times more apt and active in their social engagement? Just because the Democrats have some presence where it counts doesn't mean they are doing enough, and that they should be give a pat on the back, and told to take a break, because they are doing such a great job!
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Nov 11, 2016 22:03
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jBrereton posted:No, I mean the Democrats. Because the people you claim hated NAFTA so much repeatedly elected the Republicans and conservative Democrats who supported and created NAFTA et al for a good 20 years straight by the time NAFTA was done. The Republicans sure enjoyed blaming their own trade treaties on Clinton, but that doesn't make it true.
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Nov 11, 2016 22:03
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Can you keep pre-existing condition part without the mandate part? Wouldn't this be like don't need to buy car insurance until after I have a car wreck?
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Nov 11, 2016 22:05
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HorseRenoir posted:lol, I wonder how "uhh I was gonna repeal Obamacare but this Obama guy sure has some great ideas!" is gonna play out with his voters I'm curious if his followers are as malleable as we think. We're already getting lots of stories of people that voted for him based on lies that the media totally ignore like his fund raising for veterans. I'm really wondering more now than I was before if an actual competent media would have sunk him.
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Nov 11, 2016 22:05
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HorseRenoir posted:lol, I wonder how "uhh I was gonna repeal Obamacare but this Obama guy sure has some great ideas!" is gonna play out with his voters I said it before facetiously, but what if Trump actually gets impeached for not being crazy enough
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Nov 11, 2016 22:06
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steinrokkan posted:Are you kidding, aren't the Republicans like million times more apt and active in their social engagement? no, republican party social engagement directly from the party apparatus is largely laughable dogshit the republicans communicate to their base through providing talking points to an acquescent media apparatus, with fox news at the crown, which then filters down to the ground level through a thousand refeeds of varying quality which flavor the party message with as little or as much complete insanity as is required to satisfy the microdemographic. you see this on the left too but not nearly to the same scale
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Nov 11, 2016 22:06
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RaySmuckles posted:man you're just itching for a fight, aren't you? i can understand that since your party and candidate just handed the whitehouse to Donald Trump. pretty embarrassing considering you had virtually every possible advantage going into this election. I'm itching for a fight with a wanna be communist who really really really wants to believe the working class is still on their side. Because it's pretty clear that's who you've concocted your identity aroun. Don't blame me I voted for Jill Stein? And you didn't even address the radicalised part, cat got your tongue?
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Nov 11, 2016 22:05
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boner confessor posted:you're not really capable of articulating a way in which democrats are going to be able to honestly communicate to base level republicans, a group which largely believes that democrats are engaged in all kinds of nefarious schemes from banning guns to buying black votes with welfare payments all the way up to agenda 21 and being literal agents of the Devil, who lives in Hell, etc. Listen, let's say I know that some people have been able to launch rockets to orbit. Now, I have no detailed knowledge of how it is done, but that doesn't mean that when my company launches a rocket that explodes after five seconds, I have to accept it as the best possible outcome because you can't just replicate other people's results.
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Nov 11, 2016 22:07
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steinrokkan posted:It is both, convincing people that you can do A Thing, then not loving up your credibility by showing that you can't do A Thing despite no opposition. And if one party can lie to all the people all the time, it is entirely because the other party has thrown their towel into the ring of modern, person oriented political communication. RaySmuckles posted:(not saying he would have won the election) but people, many of those same people, believed bernie when he said it. how do we bridge that gap? i don't think Bernie was full of poo poo and a liar. he had a trillion dollar make work infrastructure plan and while his ideas may have been basic, they were still ideas that people believed in and with enough political support might have gotten passed I think Bernie was full of poo poo but he isn't a liar. One of my issues for him (but I voted for him and made calls for him) is that he really doesn't seem like a details kind of guy. I think he woulda done better in the traditional blue states that Clinton lost but I dunno what kinda of opposition he would have faced from the media.
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Nov 11, 2016 22:07
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Anyone got any hot Boomer takes re: Paul Ryan finally getting to privatize Medicare, just like he always wanted to?
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Nov 11, 2016 22:09
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Deadulus posted:Can you keep pre-existing condition part without the mandate part? Not really, no. The requirement to buy and the requirement to cover go hand in hand, neither works without the other.
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Nov 11, 2016 22:08
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Butch Cassidy posted:Cannon runs at a defecit. It was a failed mountain, with another failed mountain given to the state and merged into it, that is run as a state park with intentionally low prices to allow area residents a chance to afford skiing. It also employs a fair number of people with state benefits. The whole thing is a welfare program and I'm cool with it. The push to charge seniors was an ill-conceived way to lose less money. Cannon's maintenance isn't un-safe, it's just intentionally minimal and adequate. And the mountain's deficit matters less than publicity from an Olympic skiier cutting his teeth there as a child, area business revenue from tourists hitting the slopes, tourists who can't afford skiing at some other mountains given incentive to make the drive into the state, and mountain employees having jobs to keep some money local. The mountain's deficit does matter when it comes time to pay employees and spend money on maintenance. Especially when Republicans are blocking deficit spending while cutting taxes, which New Hampshire has struggled with in recent years. If the mountain is going to be run at a loss, the government's got to be willing to spend money on it. If the legislature thinks cutting funding is the way to balance the budget, then every state service that runs on a deficit is in trouble. Just look at what the US Postal Service has had to put up with in recent years. New Hampshire's property taxes are on the high side, but that's more than made up for by the fact that it has no income tax and no general sales tax whatsoever, so the overall tax burden is much lower than in neighboring states. The state is funded pretty much entirely on the back of property taxes and business taxes - and last year, Republican legislators won a months-long fight to cut the latter without introducing any new taxes or fees to replace them. Admiral Ray posted:they're just saying that feels > reals for presidential elections. I disagree mostly because while Trump won he barely loving won. That doesn't mean his strategy didn't work, but it's not like he brought out 7 or 12 million extra votes. He got ten million more votes than Bush did in 2000. That's not down to Trump himself, since the Republicans pulled similar numbers in every election since 2000, but 9/11 and the Iraq War and thr media revolution polarized and energized the American populace in a way that hasn't really diminished yet, and ever since 2000 voter turnout percentages have been at levels not seen since the late 1960s. RaySmuckles posted:well, there's a lot more to this idea rather than "it does" or "it doesn't" The first Bush administration was the one that negotiated and signed NAFTA, and more Democrats voted against it than for it in both the House and the Senate. Sure, Bill was a NAFTA backer, but the deal was inherited from a Republican White House and passed on the strength of Republican votes. That's why Trump can condemn NAFTA so much more loudly than other Republicans: McCain, McConnell, Grassley, Gingrich, Boehner, and Kasich were all among the flock of Republicans who voted for NAFTA, which otherwise wouldn't have passed in the face of Dem opposition. There's certainly a perception that NAFTA is all the Dems' fault, but the reason for that perception has more to do with Fox News than with reality. boner confessor posted:solid left democrat, african american, first muslim in congress (famously swore in on thomas jefferson's copy of the quran) Why is this the best answer anyone can give to "is he qualified to run the DNC"? I would have preferred to hear about his fundraising and organization and leadership skills, which are things he would actually need to do in that job.
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Nov 11, 2016 22:08
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steinrokkan posted:Listen, let's say I know that some people have been able to launch rockets to orbit. Now, I have no detailed knowledge of how it is done, but that doesn't mean that when my company launches a rocket that explodes after five seconds, I have to accept it as the best possible outcome because you can't just replicate other people's results. "replicating other people's results" here meaning "let's lie as hard as we can and encourage extremely dishonest, unrealistic perspectives" despite all evidence to the contrary, people deeply believed that hillary clinton was corrupt and two-faced in an unprecedented way. hell there are even leftists posting itt who believe that. what you're proposing is to double down on disinformation and completely untether party messaging from reality, and this will somehow fix things
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Nov 11, 2016 22:09
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boner confessor posted:no, republican party social engagement directly from the party apparatus is largely laughable dogshit Good, you have answered your own question, the Republicans are great thanks to this mechanism, though I think there's far more then just Fox on the input side, and Democrats need to adapt something similar for their own needs, a system where all levels of social and media interactions are covered with appropriate variations on core party message, and where the party membership associates with this message enough to internalize it and proselytize it to others.
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Nov 11, 2016 22:10
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steinrokkan posted:It is both, convincing people that you can do A Thing, then not loving up your credibility by showing that you can't do A Thing despite no opposition. And if one party can lie to all the people all the time, it is entirely because the other party has thrown their towel into the ring of modern, person oriented political communication. Yeah why is that? Maybe because they never get any of their legislation passed either, and think the other side is filled with crazy maniacs that hate america. The "both sides are bad" argument is so often dismissed on both sides. Where was all the election day violence at the polls people here where freaking out about? Truth is those people you think don't care about anyone else are as loving burnt out by obstructionist politics everywhere and Trump came swooping in and clowned everyone of the Republicans in the primaries. They don't care about politics because it's become a frustrating shitshow, he's their John Stewart, standing up and making fun of it all. Republican voting is down the same reason Democrats are, no one is happy with the people that run our lives. They don't care the Trump is racist because liberals have been saying the same poo poo about them years. I for one am sick of it, I'm tired of assuming the worst of other people based on they're opinion. I'm treating all the people in my life better regardless of their party affiliation, because it's just their stupid loving opinion anyway and they have as much control with their vote as you do.
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Nov 11, 2016 22:11
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A reminder to all the posting superstars in this thread that if you get tired of arguments on the internet there are probably protests going on RIGHT NOW if you are near a major city. Check facebook for local events and come out to support and/or laugh at the people who are very Care Mad. The protester thread has marginally more details
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Nov 11, 2016 22:11
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steinrokkan posted:Good, you have answered your own question, the Republicans are great thanks to this mechanism, though I think there's far more then just Fox on the input side, and Democrats need to adapt something similar for their own needs, a system where all levels of social and media interactions are covered with appropriate variations on core party message, and where the party membership associates with this message enough to internalize it and proselytize it to others. you're purposely dancing around the part where some of the most effective parts of the republican messaging apparatus are bugfuck crazy conspiracy pushers that tell tales about FEMA murdering millions of people or what have you
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Nov 11, 2016 22:12
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quote:
Wow.
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Nov 11, 2016 22:11
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Lid posted:I'm itching for a fight with a wanna be communist who really really really wants to believe the working class is still on their side. Because it's pretty clear that's who you've concocted your identity aroun. Don't blame me I voted for Jill Stein? they're very radical. just in a way you don't like. we're talking about people who changed their political beliefs to elect obama and then turned around and changed again to elect a human hand grenade. what's not radical about that? the want to fundamentally change the structure of economics and politics and voted in a person they think will do just that. that's the definition of radical. (relating to or affecting the fundamental nature of something; far-reaching or thorough, advocating or based on thorough or complete political or social reform; representing or supporting an extreme section of a political party). i don' think the working class is on the side of the democrats, i think they've been increasingly alienated for years, and this election just resoundingly proved that. we need to bring them to our side and give them something to vote for.
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Nov 11, 2016 22:11
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Volcott posted:Anyone got any hot Boomer takes re: Paul Ryan finally getting to privatize Medicare, just like he always wanted to?
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Nov 11, 2016 22:13
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you know how trump doesn't pay his contractors once the work is done? well, now that rural white americans have launched him into office and he doesn't need them anymore...
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Nov 11, 2016 22:13
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