Hollismason posted:

I'm pretty sure Trump is gonna get Snowden back from Russia.

icantfindaname posted:

jesus christ if people's response to this disaster is 'Hillary did nothing wrong' i don't even

Non Serviam posted:

I hadn't thought about this and, holy poo poo, you might be right.
I hope not, or that he can escape.

paranoid randroid posted:

i would prefer if we didnt put people like Connor Kilpatrick in charge of determining the new direction of the left, considering his greatest contribution to the discourse following Trumps victory was to go around mocking black people on twitter for suggesting that race played a powerful role in getting Trump elected. hes just really loving terrible in every way.

Hollismason posted:

Yeah he definitely is Russia's sacrificial pawn and he is totally hosed.

Mozi posted:

Not just 'reportedly.' This is the one constant based on every single person who has interacted with him - his ghostwriter, biographer, people who gave him intelligence briefings, old business partners, fired campaign workers.

Trump does not take advice. If you make it seem as if it's his idea, he will latch onto it until he hears something from somebody else.

Look at his first tweet as President. A sane person, no matter how evil, would not have tweeted that. He has no filter.

National security people wrote papers saying that Trump is dangerous not because he spouts racist rhetoric or has bad policy positions, but because he is impulsive, ignorant, can't back down, and thinks he's smarter than he is.

This is the danger. We've had lovely, racist presidents before. Wilson fired every single black federal worker. But we've never had a president that will not listen to expert advice. We've never had a president who will be up at 4AM tweeting at his rivals.

Trump will surround himself with the dregs and outcasts of the Republican party, and the effect will be terrible. But the real risk to the country going forward is his individual, unique personality that makes him totally unfit to be literally the most powerful man in the world.

Non Serviam posted:

At the same time, I don't think Russia really plans to mend fences with America. They hoped to destabilize the election, and they succeeded.
They won't be leaving Crimea anytime soon.

icantfindaname posted:

jesus christ if people's response to this disaster is 'Hillary did nothing wrong' i don't even

greatn posted:

Snowden reaps what he sows.(he's not going to be sentenced to death, there's no crime with that sentence he could be found guilty of)

Non Serviam posted:

What did he sow? Revealing the criminal work of the United States? Yeah, gently caress him!

icantfindaname posted:

instead we're going to get people who insisted the only reason possible to dislike Hillary was sexism

greatn posted:

Anybody with any intellectual honesty knows he did far more than that.

botany posted:

Correct, he also started an international discussion about government overreach and privacy. He is a hero.

greatn posted:

Anybody with any intellectual honesty knows he did far more than that.

paranoid randroid posted:

well that's not ideal either. if only there was a middle ground between beltway flaks and ideologues all too willing to piss on core allied constituencies for the crime of "being establishment"

botany posted:

Correct, he also started an international discussion about government overreach and privacy. He is a hero.

Doredrin posted:

Executing Snowden would be a big mistake. I have faith that Trump is not that stupid.

Lid posted:

I can put you in a group because it's clear what groups you aren't apart of - you don't get it.

You're looking at the problem with the outcome already determined but you can't see how maybe that minorities - race minorities, sexual minorities, gender... well majority technically - are going to now be sat down at the table with these radicalised people who have voted for the oppression in years past and hosed them over and you think that everything can be fixed with "lets get the money out of Washington".

You do see how insulting that is? You do see why whenever you (though never have denied) say we need to start the healing by not labeling them may be entirely irrelevent to those they have oppressed? Does it matter to the black man that the person who got him shot and locked up did so because either they didn't care about him or are so spiteful they want their stele jobs back and are willing to step on him to get it?

That the same sex marriage campaigners, all married now, are looking at being told that it was indeed to good to be true because they are in fact abominations. And that came about from these radicalised, hard done by people.

That you look at this world, its conclusions and the way its going to hurt and say "but go ahead and keep attacking me. its definitely bringing the democratic party together." thinking this is about mother loving party politics tells me everything about your group, and insults me more that even before you had the temerity to use the word privilege when you clearly have no loving idea what the word means - it doesn't mean having lived a life where in college you had room mates and then met a top head at Exxon fucko.

greatn posted:

There is no international discussion. No one gives a poo poo, not even the Bernie wing. The only international discussion is a few countries embarrassing the united States for political points.

Main Paineframe posted:

I can't wait to be ruled by the reincarnation of Kaiser Wilhelm II, it worked out so well the first time.

Mozi posted:

Not just 'reportedly.' This is the one constant based on every single person who has interacted with him - his ghostwriter, biographer, people who gave him intelligence briefings, old business partners, fired campaign workers.

Trump does not take advice. If you make it seem as if it's his idea, he will latch onto it until he hears something from somebody else.

Look at his first tweet as President. A sane person, no matter how evil, would not have tweeted that. He has no filter.

National security people wrote papers saying that Trump is dangerous not because he spouts racist rhetoric or has bad policy positions, but because he is impulsive, ignorant, can't back down, and thinks he's smarter than he is.

This is the danger. We've had lovely, racist presidents before. Wilson fired every single black federal worker. But we've never had a president that will not listen to expert advice. We've never had a president who will be up at 4AM tweeting at his rivals.

Trump will surround himself with the dregs and outcasts of the Republican party, and the effect will be terrible. But the real risk to the country going forward is his individual, unique personality that makes him totally unfit to be literally the most powerful man in the world.

cheese posted:

Where is the pissing on allied constituencies?

RaySmuckles posted:

dude, you're SO wrong you have no idea what you're talking about. i'm not your boogie man.

i've been adamant about keeping plurality and social justice as a major part of the democratic platform. but the missing plank is economics. economics matters to everyone including the oppressed because when their economic conditions improve they have the capacity to advocate and fight for themselves. they're oppressed, in part, because of their economic vulnerability. but economics just LOST us the election, not (just) racism or bigotry. so its something we need to address strongly.

and you got the order wrong. i met the Exxon dude before i was working class, living with my also working class roommate. look at all these assumptions you're making. you have no idea who you're talking to or what you're talking about. you have no idea about my life or who i am and its not helping anyone. these broad assumptions are what turns off all the people you need to be courting! oh you're white and from Ohio? you must be a racist, misogynist bigot! that's loving stupid and destructive to implementing anything of the high minded ideals we both share.

i want to fight for the oppressed too. i've wanted to for my whole life. i've been active politically to do just that, since my first election in 2006. but if we're going to help minorities we also have to bring in the economically oppressed working class whites because otherwise we're not going to win elections and be in a position to actually help anyone. don't you get it? you have to be in power to effect change and right now our policies have gotten us thrown out of power in almost every single measurable way.

so how do we move forward from here? how do we get back into power so we can help oppressed minorities and the working class of ALL colors and genders? that's all that matters. losing your poo poo at anyone you wrongly perceive to be your enemy is a losing strategy. cuz check it out, you just lost the election. to DONALD TRUMP

cheese posted:

Where is the pissing on allied constituencies?

botany posted:

chumbler posted:

Minorities are 100% justified in not trusting white democrats, let alone white people in general, because they clearly demonstrated that they will hang minorities and marginalized groups out to dry for literally nothing. You're going to have to work real drat hard to bring them to the table with people who want them to not exist and would shoot their own legs if it meant minorities don't get anything.

paranoid randroid posted:

Kilpatricks comportment on social media in general involves a lot of shouting down minority voices for talking about the racial elements of the Trump campaign. ive also noticed a troubling willingness on the part of writers for outlets like Jacobin to accept conservative frameworks, such as the coasts being elitist and out of touch with no mention or consideration of urban working class, apparently because those frameworks make it easier to slag off establishment liberalism.

greatn posted:

Edward Snowden is a moral and political coward who is only in his current position because of his own arrogance and stupidity. He's a willing tool of Russian hegemony and Putin legitimization, rather than facing justice for irreparable harm to US Intelligence.

greatn posted:

Trump is a moral and political coward who is only in his current position because of his own arrogance and stupidity. He's a willing tool of Russian hegemony and Putin legitimization, rather than facing justice for irreparable harm to US Intelligence.

greatn posted:

Edward Snowden is a moral and political coward who is only in his current position because of his own arrogance and stupidity. He's a willing tool of Russian hegemony and Putin legitimization, rather than facing justice for irreparable harm to US Intelligence.

chumbler posted:

Minorities are 100% justified in not trusting white democrats, let alone white people in general, because they clearly demonstrated that they will hang minorities and marginalized groups out to dry for literally nothing. You're going to have to work real drat hard to bring them to the table with people who want them to not exist and would shoot their own legs if it meant minorities don't get anything.

RaySmuckles posted:

i've been adamant about keeping plurality and social justice as a major part of the democratic platform. but the missing plank is economics. economics matters to everyone including the oppressed because when their economic conditions improve they have the capacity to advocate and fight for themselves. they're oppressed, in part, because of their economic vulnerability. but economics just LOST us the election, not (just) racism or bigotry. so its something we need to address strongly.

Quorum posted:

If your only response to the sentiment "Obama was a good president and a good person" is wordless incredulity I don't know what to tell you man. I can acknowledge the bad poo poo while also believing that on balance Obama will be remembered as one of the better presidents in recent history; if nothing else he's definitely the classiest person to occupy the Oval Office in the past three decades.