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Hamelekim posted:Given that we know that the current economic policies are a failure, shouldn't the Democratic party be positioning itself for a different economic way? I mean how many decades of failure do we need before the political leadership of the US are declared insane? Doing the same thing over and over and we see that we get the same failures. Republicans are going to rapidly increase the collapse if they kill medicare, medicaid and everything else that they hate as free market capitalists. So they are only going to accelerate the collapse. We can focus on both. The problem is the party doesn't actually care about either as it has been operating. I didn't want to accept that accepting Clinton was accepting centrism. The reason for that is I have never been a centrist. I closed my eyes it seems because I really didn't want Trump in office and Hillary does have some redeeming qualities in terms of certain policy stances. The truth is, it looks like this mess exists because liberals left the political process a long time ago, and third way politicians thought they could just keep coasting while no one notices. Put simply, I don't think preserving the rights of minorities is taking away from the economic conversation because the two things undoubtedly intersect. What needs to stop happening is the bullshit. The party pays lip service to poverty and does nothing about it and while they do make gains socially many of these changes at the policy level are usually well behind sea changes in public opinion and fail to strike at the heart of our largest grievances. Immigration, voter suppression and unequal pay and police violence as well as workplace discrimination. Notice when they talk about social issues they skitter around those four? The voter rights act was gutted, had that not been the case Trump would not be president right now. The two are related intimately, the relationship between disenfranchised groups and poverty. I'm really hoping we can genuinely unite on this.
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Nov 11, 2016 23:26
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SpaceGoku posted:shitload of awful clintonites want to ossify in their seats and not admit any faults I think you're underselling and overselling some things here. They need to be told they're wrong because we're running a very suboptimal coalition that is highly dependent on whims and an inspiring charismatic candidate to do well. It's not a doomed coalition which will never have relevance. Had just a little more gone right for Clinton or a little more gone wrong for Trump it could have won. In 20 years or so, this majority-minority coalition is probably going to be a force to be reckoned with. But that's 20 years from now, and a 50/50 chance is a bad chance when that's a 50% chance of loving a lot of people over. We need to have an inspiring platform so even a candidate with okay charisma can inspire people. The center-left Third Way failed because it needed a constant influx of talent and you can't guarantee a Bill Clinton or a Barack Obama every 8 years. Ideally we get a system where we can nominate someone who doesn't have much charisma by sheer accident or because we don't have a great talent pool and as long as they're okay at campaigning the democratic machine can win. Because that keeps us from getting blown out. And it gives people something to point to and say "this is why I'm for the Democrats" versus "I'm for the Democrats because the Republicans are worse and what the gently caress else are you gonna do, vote third party? ha ha ha lol." That's something we need and something Ellison and Sanders can ideally give us.
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Nov 11, 2016 23:26
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Dapper_Swindler posted:its lovely, but it was gonna happen even if he canceled it. they would just wait for trump to do it. plus obamas legacy is hosed already, so what the hell. there's too many political careers/bureaucratic inertia/ideological stubbornness for the clintonites to just give up Right now they are in shell-shocked mode but I guarantee you they are gonna fight it out and maybe even win in a couple of weeks
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Nov 11, 2016 23:27
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Oh Snapple! posted:Pretty much, yeah. Right? It's starting to look like the groups were deliberately played off each other instead spoken to directly.
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Nov 11, 2016 23:27
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Venom Snake posted:As far as I know VA/FL isn't going to fight. Schumer coming on board means NY might either. Lets see what the rest of the state parties/senators do. any word on how CA dems are taking this? no really, if they're not indicating they will bend the knee then i'll be as an annoying as gently caress to them as i was an annoying as gently caress shillary
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Nov 11, 2016 23:29
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http://www.vox.com/2016/4/21/11451378/smug-american-liberalism Article goes on and on saying "liberals are too smug!" but it proved prescient. The democratic party has abandoned the working class. We dismiss Trump voters as worthless racist hicks. "If we only make sure people know the facts we'll DEFINITELY win this time!" poo poo doesn't matter. Emotional appeals always "trump" (shoot me now) rational appeals.
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Nov 11, 2016 23:30
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Typo posted:there's too many political careers/bureaucratic inertia/ideological stubbornness for the clintonites to just give up Chuck loving Schumer is on board with Ellison dude. The Clintons are loving done. So are the Obama's to probably. A Winner is Jew posted:any word on how CA dems are taking this? Iv got no idea.
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Nov 11, 2016 23:30
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Venom Snake posted:lol they ran into the wood and he's still choking that chicken. Are you planning to stay in VA for 2017? I don't know how competitive it will be but I will jump out a window if the governor's house goes red.
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Nov 11, 2016 23:31
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remember those ridiculous articles from rich people about how fearful and oppressed they felt when people were correctly blaming them for the financial crisis this is a class used to deference. some will be cool, in fact many will be cool, but there will be freakouts, just like with whites facing anti-racism and men facing feminism. some of them will come from people right now buying red paint and feeling the bern but who just haven't actually dealt with a real class threat yet
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Nov 11, 2016 23:30
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Yudo posted:Are you planning to stay in VA for 2017? I don't know how competitive it will be but I will jump out a window if the governor's house goes red. I'll be in college down in Florida helping there and coming back to VA when I can. Thankfully the VA GOP is still a loving train wreck and Kaine's people do know how to win elections here. FL is going to be a long bloody fight though.
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Nov 11, 2016 23:32
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Venom Snake posted:The Clintons are loving done. So are the Obama's to probably. I doubt Michelle Obama wants anything to do with a political career and B-Rock prob just wants to chillax
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Nov 11, 2016 23:34
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SpaceGoku posted:shitload of awful clintonites want to ossify in their seats and not admit any faults Saying that Bernie wouldn't have had a snowball's chance in hell of losing the general to Trump is insane. You can't make that argument, because Bernie didn't run in the general against Trump. Is Hillary perfect? No. Did she lose? Yes. Did she lose the popular vote? No. She ran expecting people not to vote for Trump because of his literally unforgivable moral shortcomings, but Trump received nearly as many votes as Romney did in 2012. Get this through your head. The argument that Trump should have been "The easiest candidate to beat in a Presidential election ever" can't be made when almost 60 million people voted for him.
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Nov 11, 2016 23:35
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Peel posted:remember those ridiculous articles from rich people about how fearful and oppressed they felt when people were correctly blaming them for the financial crisis no war but class war (am i doing this right guys?)
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Nov 11, 2016 23:34
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Venom Snake posted:Chuck loving Schumer is on board with Ellison dude. The Clintons are loving done. So are the Obama's to probably. The Obamas are not done if they don't want to be. It's just staying involved for them is going to be the elder statesman party leader role and not, "We should be in the White House for eight more years!"
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Nov 11, 2016 23:34
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Venom Snake posted:I'll be in college down in Florida helping there and coming back to VA when I can. Thankfully the VA GOP is still a loving train wreck and Kaine's people do know how to win elections here. FL is going to be a long bloody fight though. as someone who worked on the obama campaign in 2008 on fl i wish you luck because the fl democrats are a dumpster fire but worst all a well funded dumpster fire
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Nov 11, 2016 23:35
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Venom Snake posted:I'll be in college down in Florida helping there and coming back to VA when I can. Thankfully the VA GOP is still a loving train wreck and Kaine's people do know how to win elections here. FL is going to be a long bloody fight though. Thanks for the insight.
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Nov 11, 2016 23:36
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Venom Snake posted:I'll be in college down in Florida helping there and coming back to VA when I can. Thankfully the VA GOP is still a loving train wreck and Kaine's people do know how to win elections here. FL is going to be a long bloody fight though. FL is always a wreck. Just barely have over 33% of the state legislature, the party here has historically been more about raising funds from the blue pockets, and there's little momentum to change that. The head of the party is stepping down in January though, so there's an opening for fresh blood.
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Nov 11, 2016 23:37
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Thanks for this thread, guys, it's nice to see people taking this poo poo seriously when my usual political discussion space (politoons thread) is full of people who refused to discuss Clinton's flaws during the election and refuse to discuss the DNC's flaws now. Why people would rather clamp their hands over their ears and say "it was all those racists out there, nothing we could do, nothing we can do, la la la" than figure out how to actually loving win poo poo is beyond me. That said the thread moves too fast for me to post in it regularly but I'll try 
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Nov 11, 2016 23:37
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Please, tell me again how you were caught unawares by the hostility and dislike of Hillary Clinton, something that was obvious for 25+ years, and had no real workable plan to fix it. Just because it's legitimately "unfair" or "sexist" doesn't make whining about it a plan.
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Nov 11, 2016 23:38
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A Winner is Jew posted:no war but class war mostly, but don't forget to always eat the rich
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Nov 11, 2016 23:37
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loquacius posted:Thanks for this thread, guys, it's nice to see people taking this poo poo seriously when my usual political discussion space (politoons thread) is full of people who refused to discuss Clinton's flaws during the election and refuse to discuss the DNC's flaws now. Why people would rather clamp their hands over their ears and say "it was all those racists out there, nothing we could do, nothing we can do, la la la" than figure out how to actually loving win poo poo is beyond me. just post this at them https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jwfYTSdJ7kY
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Nov 11, 2016 23:39
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Padams posted:http://www.vox.com/2016/4/21/11451378/smug-american-liberalism Lmao, but you are right. Venom Snake posted:Chuck loving Schumer is on board with Ellison dude. The Clintons are loving done. So are the Obama's to probably. The Clintons are done and the Obamas have washed their hands of this. I don't think they were particularly interested in staying in Washington. After all, look at everything they have been through.
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Nov 11, 2016 23:39
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bump_fn posted:please tell me how to support the coup gunpowder in the basement of the capitol but it's possible he's immortal people are pissed about losing 4 seats but with Hillary losing he'll be able to deflect (even though she did really well in Illinois)
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Nov 11, 2016 23:39
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Zikan posted:reminder that the cwa is one of the most militant unions in the country in that they actually loving hold strikes I remeber when Bernman spoke to the Verizon strikers, it was awesome.
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Nov 11, 2016 23:40
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mrmcd posted:Please, tell me again how you were caught unawares by the hostility and dislike of Hillary Clinton, something that was obvious for 25+ years, and had no real workable plan to fix it. Just because it's legitimately "unfair" or "sexist" doesn't make whining about it a plan. They assumed it was baked in and played out. The RWM has been droning on about her for nearly 30 years; after a while it becomes background noise. They just figured "she's got experience and actual concrete policies/plans; he has what appears to be a 7th grade assignment done last period totally bereft of detail" and thought that would be sufficient to win. Turns out, neither was true. Media is partly to blame for the former, and the latter is just overestimating American insight.
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Nov 11, 2016 23:40
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Atrocious Joe posted:
Hmm, maybe giving the progressives a stage to fight against the establishment isn't the worst thing that could happen.
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Nov 11, 2016 23:41
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Venom Snake posted:I agree but you have to be careful. If you make minority groups think you don't have their back they WILL walk out on you. Agreed, but I would point to the media. Bernie Sanders proposed a new system that would raise up all different groups (rising tide raises all buoys), and the media snubbed him and made it seem like he wasn't doing enough for the different ethnic minority groups when that was completely preposterous. And this isn't a series of posts serving as a sloppy blowjob for Bernie, but his movement had a lot of aspects that we need to take seriously. The media perpetuates divisions that lead us to where we are now. Hilario Baldness has issued a correction as of 23:43 on Nov 11, 2016 |
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Nov 11, 2016 23:40
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Peel posted:remember those ridiculous articles from rich people about how fearful and oppressed they felt when people were correctly blaming them for the financial crisis With how much Republican politicians love the rich, they're going to regret sucking the NRA's dick for so long, letting working class whites accumulate more and more weapons. Now that they have unified Republican government, there's a good chance that blaming Democrats and minorities for everything isn't going to work as well for them and those "second amendment" solutions they wink and nudge about will blow up in their face.
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Nov 11, 2016 23:41
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Reicere posted:Hmm, maybe giving the progressives a stage to fight against the establishment isn't the worst thing that could happen. Bernie supported native americans, Hillary said people shouldn't overreact and that the truth was in the middle.
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Nov 11, 2016 23:42
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Typo posted:there's too many political careers/bureaucratic inertia/ideological stubbornness for the clintonites to just give up gently caress them if they try it.
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Nov 11, 2016 23:42
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Venom Snake posted:Chuck loving Schumer is on board with Ellison dude. The Clintons are loving done. So are the Obama's to probably. nah the obamas are gonna come out fine because both he and michelle are personally popular and aren't all that interested in holding office anymore, they are gonna play elder-statesmen and intra-party mediator and surrogates for 2018 onwards
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Nov 11, 2016 23:42
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loquacius posted:Thanks for this thread, guys, it's nice to see people taking this poo poo seriously when my usual political discussion space (politoons thread) is full of people who refused to discuss Clinton's flaws during the election and refuse to discuss the DNC's flaws now. Why people would rather clamp their hands over their ears and say "it was all those racists out there, nothing we could do, nothing we can do, la la la" than figure out how to actually loving win poo poo is beyond me. The ways of the before time led to the ending. If we want to rebuild from the ashes, we must move on from the long, long ago. If they do not lean this, they will starve in the irradiated wasteland that is corporate liberalism.
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Nov 11, 2016 23:42
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Padams posted:With how much Republican politicians love the rich, they're going to regret sucking the NRA's dick for so long, letting working class whites accumulate more and more weapons. Now that they have unified Republican government, there's a good chance that blaming Democrats and minorities for everything isn't going to work as well for them and those "second amendment" solutions they wink and nudge about will blow up in their face. I think you underestimate how far blaming minorities can take a party.
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Nov 11, 2016 23:44
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Reicere posted:Hmm, maybe giving the progressives a stage to fight against the establishment isn't the worst thing that could happen. i wish obama was actually playing 7th dimensional chess instead of like just being a boring corporatist
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Nov 11, 2016 23:43
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A Winner is Jew posted:any word on how CA dems are taking this? http://www.dailykos.com/story/2016/11/10/1595296/-California-Does-The-Right-Thing-in-the-Face-of-Trump
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Nov 11, 2016 23:44
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I'm going to the next meeting of my local Democratic Party group and I'll throw a fit if I have to.
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Nov 11, 2016 23:45
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Vox Nihili posted:http://www.dailykos.com/story/2016/11/10/1595296/-California-Does-The-Right-Thing-in-the-Face-of-Trump Joint Statement from California Legislative Leaders on Result of Presidential Election Wednesday, November 09, 2016 SACRAMENTO – California Senate President pro Tempore Kevin de León (D-Los Angeles) and California Assembly Speaker Anthony Rendon (D-Paramount) released the following statement on the results of the President election: Today, we woke up feeling like strangers in a foreign land, because yesterday Americans expressed their views on a pluralistic and democratic society that are clearly inconsistent with the values of the people of California. We have never been more proud to be Californians. By a margin in the millions, Californians overwhelmingly rejected politics fueled by resentment, bigotry, and misogyny. The largest state of the union and the strongest driver of our nation’s economy has shown it has its surest conscience as well. California is – and must always be – a refuge of justice and opportunity for people of all walks, talks, ages and aspirations – regardless of how you look, where you live, what language you speak, or who you love. California has long set an example for other states to follow. And California will defend its people and our progress. We are not going to allow one election to reverse generations of progress at the height of our historic diversity, scientific advancement, economic output, and sense of global responsibility. We will be reaching out to federal, state and local officials to evaluate how a Trump Presidency will potentially impact federal funding of ongoing state programs, job-creating investments reliant on foreign trade, and federal enforcement of laws affecting the rights of people living in our state. We will maximize the time during the presidential transition to defend our accomplishments using every tool at our disposal. While Donald Trump may have won the presidency, he hasn’t changed our values. America is greater than any one man or party. We will not be dragged back into the past. We will lead the resistance to any effort that would shred our social fabric or our Constitution. California was not a part of this nation when its history began, but we are clearly now the keeper of its future.
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Nov 11, 2016 23:45
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https://twitter.com/TheDailyShow/status/797144376296148992
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Nov 11, 2016 23:45
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Typo posted:there's too many political careers/bureaucratic inertia/ideological stubbornness for the clintonites to just give up I think there's a different way to phrase this as a coup. A lot of these Third Way-ists are probably like, actually decent people, just sheltered and out of touch and insulated by privilege and decades of growing up in a different world where populist anger wasn't nearly as bad and you had like, a crippling fear of actual left-wing policy. It's not a palace coup. We acknowledge that these guys fought as hard as they can for a good cause. Their cause wasn't perfect, their fight wasn't flawless or even well-executed but they did win some victories for us. We're grateful for it. But it's our time now, it's the time of leftist policy that plays well with the populace, it's time to embrace the unions and the working class again because so many of the issues they suffer are similar to the issues minorities suffer, and we're going to fight this war for you and we're going to win. I figure if you can convince them it's at least a good start. But like... Well What Now posted:gently caress them if they try it. Yeah. Olive branch in one hand. Spiked baseball bat in the other.
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Nov 11, 2016 23:46
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Vox Nihili posted:http://www.dailykos.com/story/2016/11/10/1595296/-California-Does-The-Right-Thing-in-the-Face-of-Trump this is all well and good until they try to push gavin newsom on us in 2020
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Nov 11, 2016 23:46
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