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botany posted:No you moron I'm saying that the most likely case is that he offered to help with their investigations in exactly the same way he has been helping German, British, French, US media and others: By helping people make sense of the documents that were released Those documents and that information are all classified! How are you not getting this? E: you were caught denying the very thing that you are talking about in your post! QuarkJets fucked around with this message at 03:31 on Nov 12, 2016 |
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Nov 12, 2016 03:28
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Tir McDohl posted:Exactly, and even though she might not cut it in 2020, this is the time for rising stars in the Democratic Party to start, well, rising. The bench was depleted, and we are now living the nightmare. We need to keep an eye on the democrats who do the best job resisting and sticking to their values. Remember when USPOL attacked Bernie for being too ideologically pure?
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Nov 12, 2016 03:29
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Dancer posted:You're setting up a massive strawman. Hillary campaign on min wage, on affordable healthcare, on paid family leave, etc. Economic policy was just as much a part of her platform as women's rights and civil rights. As far as accusations of sexism or racism go, for Bernie personally people just brought up that he hadn't done much for minorities as Senator. Personally, I think his take is that racial issues are class issues (I don't completely agree with him on this) and went forward on that basis. That meant he didn't have a lot of legislation to his name with benefits explicitly for minorities. Much like Bernie voters didn't see Hillary as credible on economic justice, Hillary voters didn't see Bernie as credible on racial justice. In this case, I think we can say the inverse of the conventional media wisdom holds true: both sides are wrong. As for this board though, yeah accusations of sexism and racist gone thrown around willy-nilly for basically the entire primary season. By the time the general came along most Bernie supporters had just stopped posting. I liked both candidates but if you were enthusiastic about Bernie and not really for Hillary, D&D has been a hostile place for the past year.
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Nov 12, 2016 03:29
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Not to be a bitter Bernie supporter but he had massive appeal to the same demographics of which were HRC's undoing-white persons along the Midwest and Rustbelt, especially in Michigan where he pulled the biggest upset during the primary. I'm not saying that the DNC should by any means double down on white voters, but they'd do well to realize that one of his key appeals was how he fought for economic equality. I'm Mexican-American and Bernie's platforms of a $15 minimum wage, free state tuition, and single payer healthcare appealed to me much more than Clinton's listicle of what she had in common with my abuela. That's what I admired about Bernie and what the DNC should do-instead of taking their minority demographic appeal for granted, actually fight for it and all demographics by extension starting with economic equality and building from that foundation up. Look towards Bernie Sanders, Elizabeth Warren, and the other progressive politicians who will gather around them. After all, a rising tide lifts all boats. It'd serve them well if they remembered that.
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Nov 12, 2016 03:32
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Cup Runneth Over posted:Remember when USPOL attacked Bernie for being too ideologically pure? Yeah that was pretty stupid
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Nov 12, 2016 03:32
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hillary appointed tim "deregulate the banks" kaine as her vp in a direct middle finger to people who were hoping she gave a poo poo about classism so lets really not talk about what her platform technically did or did not say.
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Nov 12, 2016 03:32
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B B posted:Guys! Maybe we need to run Oprah in 2020!!!!
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Nov 12, 2016 03:33
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Panzeh posted:Hillary ran on an economic platform that was very acceptable to Goldman Sachs and was very very careful not to expound on any position other than that because she believes finance is and should continue to be the supreme force in american politics. Serious question: what would it have taken for you to believe her sincerity on her leftish platform? What would she have had to do?
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Nov 12, 2016 03:33
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Kilroy posted:I'm convinced that progressivism is the way forward and the more recent examples of the 2006 and the 2008 elections bear that out. Still, are there parallels here? Are we at risk of a 1980-1984/type situation and if so, what can we do to avoid it? I doubt it. Not even counting the amount of differences between the American populace between 1980 and now, Reagan was able to do what he did because he was extremely popular and Trump is not that. He is one of the most unpopular presidential candidates ever and barely won against one of the other most unpopular presidential candidates ever with pitifully low turnout, and even then he couldn't win the popular vote. At least half the country hates him and this is his honeymoon period, his popularity will sink even lower when he inevitably fails to deliver on his impossibly vague and grand promises and the economy tanks. He can try to blame Obama for his failures, but Obama's approval numbers are sky-high and I don't see them falling any time soon.
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Nov 12, 2016 03:37
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ArbitraryC posted:hillary appointed tim "deregulate the banks" kaine as her vp in a direct middle finger to people who were hoping she gave a poo poo about classism so lets really not talk about what her platform technically did or did not say.
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Nov 12, 2016 03:36
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GreyjoyBastard posted:Serious question: what would it have taken for you to believe her sincerity on her leftish platform? What would she have had to do?
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Nov 12, 2016 03:39
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Kilroy posted:Also the guy who replaced Howard Dean as chair of the DNC and dismantled the 50-state strategy which was responsible for wins in 2006 and 2008. ... ...Okay, I might have to hand in my politics wonk card. Or at least submit myself to discipline and probationary standing.  Edit: Kilroy, I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you on the hypothetical alternate universe Hillary solution, but I am curious about the range of answers, seeing as what got done didn't work.  I'm one of the people who was pretty enthusiastic to vote for Hillary, so I'm clearly not one of the people most qualified to weigh in on how to energize the disillusioned.
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Nov 12, 2016 03:41
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Kilroy posted:So, while we're discussing whether and how the Democratic party will be pushed to the left over the next two years, I'm looking at past historical elections and right now I'm looking really closely at 1980. Populist Presidential candidate humiliates the Democrats and enacts a series of sweeping reforms the fallout of which we continue to deal with today. In 1984 the Democrats run Walter Mondale who is reasonably to the left, also they run the first female VP on the ticket. They get their asses absolutely handed to them and the lovely polities enacted by Reagan are cemented into the fabric or our government, into how a lot of people think about how the world works at a basic level, and Reagan becomes a Christ figure for the Right. Benny the Snake posted:Not to be a bitter Bernie supporter but he had massive appeal to the same demographics of which were HRC's undoing-white persons along the Midwest and Rustbelt, especially in Michigan where he pulled the biggest upset during the primary. I'm not saying that the DNC should by any means double down on white voters, but they'd do well to realize that one of his key appeals was how he fought for economic equality. I'm Mexican-American and Bernie's platforms of a $15 minimum wage, free state tuition, and single payer healthcare appealed to me much more than Clinton's listicle of what she had in common with my abuela. That's what I admired about Bernie and what the DNC should do-instead of taking their minority demographic appeal for granted, actually fight for it and all demographics by extension starting with economic equality and building from that foundation up. Look towards Bernie Sanders, Elizabeth Warren, and the other progressive politicians who will gather around them. After all, a rising tide lifts all boats. It'd serve them well if they remembered that.
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Nov 12, 2016 03:40
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HorseRenoir posted:I doubt it. Not even counting the amount of differences between the American populace between 1980 and now, Reagan was able to do what he did because he was extremely popular and Trump is not that. He is one of the most unpopular presidential candidates ever and barely won against one of the other most unpopular presidential candidates ever with pitifully low turnout, and even then he couldn't win the popular vote. At least half the country hates him and this is his honeymoon period, his popularity will sink even lower when he inevitably fails to deliver on his impossibly vague and grand promises and the economy tanks. He can try to blame Obama for his failures, but Obama's approval numbers are sky-high and I don't see them falling any time soon. 2020 might be good timing for the glorious revolution. If progressivism can sweep then, we also get to win the next round of gerrymandering
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Nov 12, 2016 03:42
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Cup Runneth Over posted:Remember when USPOL attacked Bernie for being too ideologically pure? At the very least some of the worst posters in that regard were permabanned.
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Nov 12, 2016 03:41
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Panzeh posted:Hillary ran on an economic platform that was very acceptable to Goldman Sachs and was very very careful not to expound on any position other than that because she believes finance is and should continue to be the supreme force in american politics. While wrong, that you, and probably a bunch of others, believe this goes a big way to explaining why she lost Like the flip side of why she beat Sanders in the primary: she had a long-established relationship with both the minority base of the Democratic Party and also the 90s' (rightly or wrongly) concept of the start of the decline of rural America
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Nov 12, 2016 03:43
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I'm looking forward to the first internet video of someone recently awoken from a coma finding out Donald Trump is actually the President-elect.
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Nov 12, 2016 03:45
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Kilroy posted:The Democrats need to ditch Hollywood. No one cares what any of these people think. Unless Oprah was calling Trump a racist I imagine.
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Nov 12, 2016 03:44
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Tir McDohl posted:2020 might be good timing for the glorious revolution. If progressivism can sweep then, we also get to win the next round of gerrymandering Wouldn't we have to sweep in 2018 for that?
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Nov 12, 2016 03:46
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TheBigAristotle posted:I'm looking forward to the first internet video of someone recently awoken from a coma finding out Donald Trump is actually the President-elect. ehhhhhh this is the closest thing i've got http://www.vice.com/read/i-might-have-been-the-last-person-in-america-to-learn-who-won-the-election?utm_source=vicetwitterus quote:As I write this, I've just voted and am about to turn off notifications for all my texts, news apps, and social media accounts in an effort go as long as possible without learning who won the US Presidential election. Similar to abstract, knowledge-dependent games like "avoiding finding out the winner of the Super Bowl" or The Game (sorry), the premise is simple: try to live a (relatively) normal while avoiding the biggest news story in the world. The second I'm made aware of this information, I've lost. quote:DAY 4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FPhaSWHK5mk
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Nov 12, 2016 03:48
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Kilroy posted:She could have selected Bernie as her VP and put a progressive in as the chair of the DNC. That would have won her the election handily IMO. The second part yes, the first no, I'm not sure why anyone thinks Bernie would have accepted VP nod even if it were offered (which it should have been if it wasn't but I don't remember her shortlist). Like, go be VP and do basically nothing while there was massive uncertainty even in the polling on the prospect of Dems getting to 50 in the Senate and risk someone less progressive ending up in his seat, or hold his seat and try to get ranking chair on a committee and be able to spend his days trying to actually affect the changes he championed the whole primary. For him to be willing to accept an offer at being VP he would have to believe back in July that a) Hillary right now will absolutely lose, at a time when polling wrong as it ended up being wasn't pointing that direction and b) Bernie being the VP would absolutely turn that around and guarantee her victory. Bernie seems like a confident guy but not an arrogant one.
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Nov 12, 2016 03:50
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QuarkJets posted:Wouldn't we have to sweep in 2018 for that? I think we need to worry more about defense in 2018 than anything else. 2014 was a republican wave in the senate so there will be a disproportionate number of republican seats available in 2020
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Nov 12, 2016 03:50
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Donald Trump has become the first American President to support Israeli annexation of the West Bank and pledged to veto any U.N. resolution that attempts to restrict settlements or label settlements an "impediment to peace" or "illegal." http://www.wsj.com/articles/trump-adviser-israeli-settlement-building-not-an-impediment-to-peace-1478812976
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Nov 12, 2016 03:50
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Bernie was like 29th on her list of potential VPs if I recall.
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Nov 12, 2016 03:51
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GreyjoyBastard posted:Serious question: what would it have taken for you to believe her sincerity on her leftish platform? What would she have had to do? Seriously go and talk about how much the banks ruined everything in 2008 and continue to try to do so. Talk about how screwed the working man has gotten. Imply that Donald Trump is buddies with JP Morgan. There are a bunch of popular things she could have said. Unfortunately, her positioning beforehand was terrible and her credibility would have been tough anyway.
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Nov 12, 2016 03:52
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Tir McDohl posted:I think we need to worry more about defense in 2018 than anything else. 2014 was a republican wave in the senate so there will be a disproportionate number of republican seats available in 2020 It's also important to win state-level races even if Congress can't be reasonably flipped. I know that there's a competitive special election in Washington next year that will decide whether Dems have full control of the state legislature.
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Nov 12, 2016 03:52
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Kilroy posted:The Democrats need to ditch Hollywood. No one cares what any of these people think On the other hand, this election showed that charisma and celebrity status matters more than any political experience or platform. I can't wait till every primary has at least one old actor in it  .
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Nov 12, 2016 03:52
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http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/politics/2016/11/why_did_some_white_obama_voters_for_trump.html A good Jamelle Bouie article about how it was in fact about white supremacy. http://theconcourse.deadspin.com/donald-trump-is-the-leader-america-was-promised-1788791098 Or a good Tom Scocca article about how it was in fact the republicans destroying the belief in the government. http://www.rollcall.com/news/opinion/im-a-coastal-elite-from-the-midwest-the-real-bubble-is-rural-america or a good Patrick Thornton article about how white people suck because they segregate themselves. (oh and he is a white person who acknowledges he once sucked himself)
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Nov 12, 2016 03:53
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This NYT piece about how trump is pretty much going to be a part time president is hilarious. Good job Trump voters. https://t.co/ll8VKZvDll
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Nov 12, 2016 03:55
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I'm going to miss Harry Reid.
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Nov 12, 2016 03:55
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And not to be a bitter Bernie supporter, either, but I'll trust the photos of him marching with Civil Rights protesters over the photos of Hillary interning for the Nixon admin as evidence of who would actually be stronger on race issues
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Nov 12, 2016 03:56
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speng31b posted:I'm going to miss Harry Reid. Dude boxed his father-in-law FuturePastNow posted:And not to be a bitter Bernie supporter, either, but I'll trust the photos of him marching with Civil Rights protesters over the photos of Hillary interning for the Nixon admin as evidence of who would actually be stronger on race issues It's not like I think Clinton is evil. I'm aware of the good work she did for civil rights during the 60s. It's just as she is now, she's become a compromised shadow of her former self. Someone who stood by as senator while Wall Street burned the economy down, for starters. Some might die a hero or live long enough to become a villain, but others don't lose that fire. Benny the Snake fucked around with this message at 04:00 on Nov 12, 2016 |
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Nov 12, 2016 03:56
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:Donald Trump has become the first American President to support Israeli annexation of the West Bank and pledged to veto any U.N. resolution that attempts to restrict settlements or label settlements an "impediment to peace" or "illegal." Cool, can't wait for Netanyahu's next nvasion of Palestine to go full genocide.
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Nov 12, 2016 03:55
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HorseRenoir posted:It's also important to win state-level races even if Congress can't be reasonably flipped. I know that there's a competitive special election in Washington next year that will decide whether Dems have full control of the state legislature. Oh def. more than loving anything dems need to score victories locally, and in off-year elections. I don't know how we get people to vote more than once every four years but dammit I was guilty of that and this election is gonna get me off my rear end in 2018. We relied too much on being able to get the presidency relatively frequently.
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Nov 12, 2016 03:55
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^ you don't need to get off your rear end and vote, you need to get off your rear end and accept odessa's mantle of the resistance army while taking that castle in lake toranGreyjoyBastard posted:Serious question: what would it have taken for you to believe her sincerity on her leftish platform? What would she have had to do? be male.
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Nov 12, 2016 03:57
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FourLeaf posted:ehhhhhh this is the closest thing i've got That's pretty awesome, thanks! Also 
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Nov 12, 2016 03:57
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Mister Adequate posted:be male. You're part of the problem
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Nov 12, 2016 03:57
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Nov 12, 2016 03:57
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Benny the Snake posted:Not to be a bitter Bernie supporter but he had massive appeal to the same demographics of which were HRC's undoing-white persons along the Midwest and Rustbelt, especially in Michigan where he pulled the biggest upset during the primary. I'm not saying that the DNC should by any means double down on white voters, but they'd do well to realize that one of his key appeals was how he fought for economic equality. I'm Mexican-American and Bernie's platforms of a $15 minimum wage, free state tuition, and single payer healthcare appealed to me much more than Clinton's listicle of what she had in common with my abuela. That's what I admired about Bernie and what the DNC should do-instead of taking their minority demographic appeal for granted, actually fight for it and all demographics by extension starting with economic equality and building from that foundation up. Look towards Bernie Sanders, Elizabeth Warren, and the other progressive politicians who will gather around them. After all, a rising tide lifts all boats. It'd serve them well if they remembered that. The thing to remember about Bernie is that he is way, way to the left of the Electorate. His signature issue, Single Payer, lost. No, lost is the wrong word. It got eviscerated. It was 80/20. 60 loving points. In Colorado. He didn't even get a majority of democratic voters to vote for it in a blue state. Would Bernie have won is an interesting because it could go either way. The race was so close. 1% more Dem turn out and it is a clear win. But also remember than 1% less turn out is a huge loss. But like all "What ifs..." it is impossible to prove or disprove. Xae fucked around with this message at 04:00 on Nov 12, 2016 |
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Nov 12, 2016 03:57
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I think the best thing for a new Democratic party to do is promise unrelenting fire and brimstone to lawbreakers in the Trump administration. None of this bullshit ignoring of Bush era war crimes, if they want to rile up the base they need to take the Lock Her Up page from Trump's playbook and promise harsh retribution against any future transgressions. As a benefit, it may give some of the more cowardly evil men eying up their seats next to Trump some pause.
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