|
Tiny Brontosaurus posted:That's a really good rule of thumb in general. There is no racism-free country, there are just different types of racism. im not from the uk but there were race riots in the 50s started by working class Londoners against communities coming from places like the Caribbean and competing for the same jobs, and that sort of resentment spikes and falls on a cycle.
|
#
?
Nov 11, 2016 21:15
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 10, 2024 07:55 |
|
|
(Disclaimer - white person talking about racism, there's a pretty good chance a lot of this is wrong, but I don't know if there are any British PoC on SA) I feel like there isn't less racism in the UK exactly, it just manifests differently. I'm not sure I've ever heard any explicit slurs or other comments about black people, but the systemic poo poo is still there. At least some of that is down to a big push among Football clubs to stamp out racism amongst their supporters, which has been moderately successful at making them less open if nothing else. A lot of older people are unthinkingly racist, and there are certainly nursery rhymes from my childhood that I'll never say again, but that side of things seems (at least from the outside) to be getting better. fakeedit: Bernard Manning fits in here. Racist as gently caress, but there's no way he'd get on TV today. Our police are probably less racist than yours for the most part, with some notable exceptions - the Met (the London police force) in particular are a right bunch of fuckers. And oh boy do we have some other targets for the more shouted-slurs-in-the-street kind of racism. Anyone Indian or Pakistani would have been the main one when I was younger ("paki" is pretty much as bad as the n-word over here), then polish people and other eastern europeans, and now it seems to be moving on to refugees and muslims. Oh, and Roma (Gypsies) and Travellers of various sorts are absolutely the bottom of the heap. I know very few people who aren't at least a bit racist about them, even if they try to be progressive otherwise.
|
|
#
?
Nov 11, 2016 21:15
|
|
|
Wolfsbane posted:(Disclaimer - white person talking about racism, there's a pretty good chance a lot of this is wrong, but I don't know if there are any British PoC on SA) The only slightly positive version I've ever seen of Roma and Roma-like people is in the movie Snatch, of all places.
|
|
#
?
Nov 11, 2016 21:43
|
|
|
Latina from the South checking in. Thank you all for this thread. I have learned a ton from reading through the experiences, links and other information shared here. Mysogynoir is also fantastic, and I'm trying to think of a good question. I have seen Good Hair and it is an awesome documentary. Follow TB's recommendation to success! negromancer posted:This is a good read for all of the "shocked" and "dismayed" white people over the election. This article asks a question that I am curious for everyone's thoughts on, specifically: "How do you prefer your racism - blatant or systemic?" This is a conversation I've had with many of my friends, specifically whether more subtle systemic racism or confederate flag-waving raving lunatic racism is less exhausting to deal with on a daily basis. Having not experienced either of those things from a black perspective, I am interested in your thoughts.
|
|
#
?
Nov 11, 2016 21:45
|
|
|
Wiggy Marie posted:Latina from the South checking in. Thank you all for this thread. I have learned a ton from reading through the experiences, links and other information shared here. Mysogynoir is also fantastic, and I'm trying to think of a good question. I guess I prefer systemic, since it's not like the blatant racists don't also have systemic racism. At least when the blatant stuff is toned down I can get a moment's peace once in a while.
|
|
#
?
Nov 11, 2016 21:47
|
|
|
Wiggy Marie posted:Latina from the South checking in. Thank you all for this thread. I have learned a ton from reading through the experiences, links and other information shared here. Mysogynoir is also fantastic, and I'm trying to think of a good question. There's no way to have blatant without systemic. Systemic enables blatant. So its like asking do you want a cheeseburger or a double cheeseburger, with blatant being the double cheeseburger.
|
|
#
?
Nov 11, 2016 21:56
|
|
|
Not to derail the political talk too much, but I'm curious if anyone here has seen the 1970's animated satire Coonskin - and if so, what do you think of it? I haven't seen it myself, but as an Animation Major I'm fascinated by it and its infamous extremely polarizing controversy at its time of release (Critics were calling it racist poo poo, while the NAACP endorsed it). I'm thinking of picking it up but kind of want to see how relevant it still may/may not be. I'm all for biting satire, but I'm curious if it actually managed to inspire thought MORE than it inspired hate, especially today.
|
|
#
?
Nov 11, 2016 21:57
|
|
|
Akala is a cool dude who has good perspectives on racism in the UK. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vDLgG4wHOeU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FtA21eiSmT8 Both pro clicks, especially him destroying noted white supremacist Tommy of the EDL
|
|
#
?
Nov 11, 2016 22:06
|
|
|
Rush Limbo posted:Akala is a cool dude who has good perspectives on racism in the UK. Yeah this dude goes in. He basically takes the blueprint Jane Elliott had in regards to how he controls the conversation and doesn't let them weasel out of their positions.
|
|
#
?
Nov 11, 2016 22:10
|
|
|
negromancer posted:The only slightly positive version I've ever seen of Roma and Roma-like people is in the movie Snatch, of all places. Funnily enough a lot of my family (Roma) love Snatch because it's probably one of the very few instances where they actually get any representation at all, even if it is as conniving, cheating bastards.
|
|
#
?
Nov 11, 2016 22:10
|
|
|
Rush Limbo posted:Funnily enough a lot of my family (Roma) love Snatch because it's probably one of the very few instances where they actually get any representation at all, even if it is as conniving, cheating bastards. I didn't see them that way. I saw them as a poor people that those sought to exploit, and in turn exploited those who underestimated and degraded them. But I may be superimposing a black perspective onto them.
|
|
#
?
Nov 11, 2016 22:15
|
|
|
negromancer posted:I didn't see them that way. I saw them as a poor people that those sought to exploit, and in turn exploited those who underestimated and degraded them. Without bothering to examine a film you are watching, it can be real easy for people to assume the main characters are the good guy's rather than just the protagonists. Pitt's people in that movie are probably the least horrifying of all the various factions.
|
|
#
?
Nov 11, 2016 22:28
|
|
|
remusclaw posted:Without bothering to examine a film you are watching, it can be real easy for people to assume the main characters are the good guy's rather than just the protagonists. Pitt's people in that movie are probably the least horrifying of all the various factions. Exactly. I empathized with them more than anyone else. Everyone else was at minimum greedy fucks. The Roma were the only ones with any sense of loyalty or honor.
|
|
#
?
Nov 11, 2016 22:34
|
|
|
negromancer posted:I didn't see them that way. I saw them as a poor people that those sought to exploit, and in turn exploited those who underestimated and degraded them. That's pretty much how they see themselves represented, too. It's way too much of a derail for this thread but the Roma in general take pride in a lot of the negative characteristics attributed to them because in our culture that's pretty much the only way to survive. Like, one of the very first things my grandmother taught me was to read tarot cards. She even told me that they were bullshit, but it didn't matter because as long as I could do it I'd never have money trouble 'as long as there's giorgios who think it isn't'
|
|
#
?
Nov 11, 2016 22:46
|
|
|
Rush Limbo posted:That's pretty much how they see themselves represented, too. It's way too much of a derail for this thread but the Roma in general take pride in a lot of the negative characteristics attributed to them because in our culture that's pretty much the only way to survive. Like, one of the very first things my grandmother taught me was to read tarot cards. She even told me that they were bullshit, but it didn't matter because as long as I could do it I'd never have money trouble 'as long as there's giorgios who think it isn't' Same with me and lockpicking. As long as I can get into anything, there's nothing I can't have. Turns out, you could either steal something to eat, or tell white people you're really good at stealing and they will pay you to steal their stuff. negromancer fucked around with this message at 23:06 on Nov 11, 2016 |
|
#
?
Nov 11, 2016 23:03
|
|
|
Morby posted:My grandfather's unit of the Navy was recognized as having integrated that branch of the military only about 5 years before he died in 2014. The paperwork and proof got "lost" for decades. He also was one of the first black men in Airborne units. He and his Navy buddies fought for decades to be recognized for what they did. I'm just glad he got to live and see it finally happen. He'll always be my favorite veteran. It wasn't until the 1980s that Congress forced the DoD to remove an Air Force rule that barred carriers of sickle cell anemia traits from pilot and aircrew positions, which existed for totally legit medical reasons we swear. This had a carry-on effect in particular on Vietnam-era POW/MIA activism, as the majority of POWs and MIAs came from flight services, and were thus all the more disproportionately white. Tiny Brontosaurus posted:The UK had slavery, they just ended it earlier than we did. On the islands, not sure about the colonies but I'm sure that continued long past, maybe under another name. The Somerset Case of 1772 was the first significant case of British abolitionism in the modern era, and though limited in its scope to the home islands (literally England and Wales if I remember right), it did result in the defacto abolition of slavery in Britain itself. Because of how Lord Mansfield wrote his decision, it did not explicitly affect the colonies though slaveowners in the Americas and elsewhere were admittedly nervous that that precedent would be extended toward them. You can make a case, though I don't think a very strong one, that such nervousness was a contributing factor toward the southern colonies joining the revolutionary cause, despite not otherwise being all that effected by what was going down in points north later in the 1770s.
|
|
#
?
Nov 11, 2016 23:23
|
|
|
negromancer posted:Same with me and lockpicking. This is especially funny and appropriate since you do IT and/or IS work now, right? Lockpicking for a whole new age.
|
|
#
?
Nov 11, 2016 23:25
|
|
|
Thaddius the Large posted:This is especially funny and appropriate since you do IT and/or IS work now, right? Lockpicking for a whole new age. Yep. I work in information security, so now I get paid a ridiculous amount of money to steal by white people from the white people I'm stealing from. Like I literally wake up some days and laugh about how ridiculous it is. I learned this skill to take from you, and now that you know I have it, you pay me to take from you. Only in America.
|
|
#
?
Nov 11, 2016 23:27
|
|
|
Slate is pissing me off. http://slate.me/2fKuJz3
|
|
#
?
Nov 12, 2016 00:11
|
|
|
Yeah the Democrats ran Hillary because it was her turn, not because she won the popular vote in the primaries by twelve points
|
|
#
?
Nov 12, 2016 00:24
|
|
|
Morby posted:Slate is pissing me off. It's really loving stupid and really shows a stark divide between this thread and much of the liberal space. This thread is playing up white supremacy as a very strong reason that Trump won, meanwhile much of everything else just seems to be saying that Democrats wouldn't have lost if they had picked someone else other than Hillary. A lot of it is hand wringing about young people. But young people still didn't even loving vote when their dream candidate was running and I would say that this was far from a conventional election so all of this "conventional wisdom" just sounds like a bunch of hot air from people that can't accept that maybe the racism in this country is stronger than they think. Because at the end of the day, it wasn't about if white people wanted to enact racist policies, it mattered that they simply didn't care about minorities enough to vote against them.
|
|
#
?
Nov 12, 2016 01:02
|
|
|
And not only did they not care enough to vote against them, but they get angry at you when you take issue with it. My Christmas list was cut by more than half by this election alone. Why in the hell would I do something nice for you when you clearly do not give a poo poo about my basic survival? And then they have the nerve to call me unreasonable when I am in fear for my life? Sometimes it's just too much.
|
|
#
?
Nov 12, 2016 01:06
|
|
|
Morby posted:And not only did they not care enough to vote against them, but they get angry at you when you take issue with it. My Christmas list was cut by more than half by this election alone. Why in the hell would I do something nice for you when you clearly do not give a poo poo about my basic survival? And then they have the nerve to call me unreasonable when I am in fear for my life? Sometimes it's just too much. Gonna repost this: quote:Beware of people demanding you educate them - the do not truly wish to learn. Edit: That 2nd article on that page is rich. quote:There’s a lot to ponder right now. An economic collapse, international shunning, the mainstreaming of the alt-right and ethno-nationalism. I did not vote for Hillary Clinton, but I am scared about those things too. Don’t blame me. Work with me. No, gently caress you. I do blame you because at the end of the day, your so-called "conscience" didn't give a poo poo about those things. Other people would say that she could be turned into an ally, but I am skeptical as gently caress because as soon as the stars don't align, she is going to dump us for whatever is convenient. blackguy32 fucked around with this message at 01:45 on Nov 12, 2016 |
|
#
?
Nov 12, 2016 01:38
|
|
|
https://twitter.com/SenSanders/status/796785451713593344 I'm looking at this datestamp and the only thing I can think of in response was "If? IF? Then what the gently caress was his entire campaign, you ignoramus?" Political columnists are already dismissing Keith Ellison, DNC chair hopeful, as an ~urban elite~ and singling him out for being a POC. Lovely.
|
|
#
?
Nov 12, 2016 01:53
|
|
|
Pastrymancy posted:https://twitter.com/SenSanders/status/796785451713593344 I did see earlier that in addition to Elizabeth Warren and Bernie, Chuck freaking Schumer is also backing Keith Ellison for the position. Which makes me think the odds may actual be in favor of him getting the position. Or at least I hope so. Keith Ellison is awesome.
|
|
#
?
Nov 12, 2016 02:15
|
|
|
Tiny Brontosaurus posted:The people you're quoting are putting the word "friend of the family" in the white man's mouth, which is where it lives. Black people talking to each other use "nigga," which is a reclamation of the slur and doesn't mean the same thing.
|
|
#
?
Nov 12, 2016 03:19
|
|
|
Thanks for the responses! It's a good point, one form of racism enables the other. PS, TB your avatar is adorable.
|
|
#
?
Nov 12, 2016 03:26
|
|
|
Pastrymancy posted:https://twitter.com/SenSanders/status/796785451713593344 A lot of people are trying to convince themselves that Trump was running a con and now that he's won he's going to pull backwards. There is some evidence for this in that Trump says whatever the gently caress he thinks people wants to hear but that doesn't mean anything. It's a desperate frantic grasp at the only possible spot of hope in the next 4 years.
|
|
#
?
Nov 12, 2016 03:32
|
|
|
Morby posted:And not only did they not care enough to vote against them, but they get angry at you when you take issue with it. My Christmas list was cut by more than half by this election alone. Why in the hell would I do something nice for you when you clearly do not give a poo poo about my basic survival? And then they have the nerve to call me unreasonable when I am in fear for my life? Sometimes it's just too much. This past year has really highlighted just how self-absorbed white America is. Ignoring the obvious bigots celebrating the chance to avenge having a black person in the White House, we get most of the "sane" conservatives doing everything in their power to deny actual threats on PoC's lives while exploding when a PoC dares to be angry about it enough to call them out. Trump got mostly ignored while minorities were chided for being "overdramatic" by the "reasonable" ones because they didn't take him seriously enough as they could not comprehend that calling for an entire ethnicity to be banned as out of the ordinary. That's not even getting into the "vote with your conscience" crowd who gleefully ignored the differences between some emails and a raving bigot demanding violence because their self-righteousness was more important than any PoC's life.
|
|
#
?
Nov 12, 2016 03:44
|
|
|
I just realized that Dominic Toretto from the Fast and Furious movies is Goku but with cars.
|
|
#
?
Nov 12, 2016 03:53
|
|
|
negromancer posted:I just realized that Dominic Toretto from the Fast and Furious movies is Goku but with cars. Pretty much. Also, I realized that (embarrassingly enough) I'd never seen Fist of Legend so I watched it tonight. It's definitely the best Kung Fu movie that doesn't have the word "Dragon" in the title.
|
|
#
?
Nov 12, 2016 04:00
|
|
|
CroatianAlzheimers posted:Pretty much. Best part of Fist of Legend is the Japanese general's music whenever he speaks or comes into the scene. I know a lot of people compare Fast and Furious to Avengers movies, but nah, they are definitely Dragonball Z movies. The new Star Trek movies are Avengers movies.
|
|
#
?
Nov 12, 2016 04:08
|
|
|
Speaking of Comic book movies, Black Panther may be the only comic book movie I watch outside of the Captain America ones. To me, they have mostly been boring poo poo, but hopefully a new perspective can change that. I guess the whole connected universe thing for me falls flat when the movies that they lead up to turn out to be boring as hell.
|
|
#
?
Nov 12, 2016 04:36
|
|
|
blackguy32 posted:Speaking of Comic book movies, Black Panther may be the only comic book movie I watch outside of the Captain America ones. I'm still holding out hope for snipes coming back for blade.
|
|
#
?
Nov 12, 2016 04:45
|
|
|
All I know is that there are a lot of comic book fans that are horribly racist. See: anytime you change a comic book character to a black person.
|
|
#
?
Nov 12, 2016 04:49
|
|
|
Speaking of comic books, the new young black woman who is going to be Iron Man's replacement had her first issue come out. I was excited for this until I got to the middle of the comic and: Her seemingly middle class family was having a picnic in the park when suddenly a random drive-by comes and kills her step dad and her best friend Why do white writers think the only two black backgrounds is hood violence or the Huxtables?
|
|
#
?
Nov 12, 2016 04:49
|
|
|
Fluffdaddy posted:Speaking of comic books, the new young black woman who is going to be Iron Man's replacement had her first issue come out. Media portrayals. Anyone who thinks that they aren't important is ignorant as gently caress. I mean even if not for how society views people, think about how kids feel when they have no heroes that look like them. It's part of the reason that I was hoping that the new Ghostbusters movie would succeed. We all need our heroes.
|
|
#
?
Nov 12, 2016 04:54
|
|
|
blackguy32 posted:Media portrayals. Anyone who thinks that they aren't important is ignorant as gently caress.
|
|
#
?
Nov 12, 2016 04:57
|
|
|
I just wanted to say that whoever gave me that wicked red text before was right and clearly I'm too much of an idiot to be posting more in this thread. I'm sorry for being a confused moron who asks dumb questions. I will lurk more.
|
|
#
?
Nov 12, 2016 04:59
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 10, 2024 07:55 |
|
|
blackguy32 posted:Media portrayals. Anyone who thinks that they aren't important is ignorant as gently caress. I mean even if not for how society views people, think about how kids feel when they have no heroes that look like them. It's part of the reason that I was hoping that the new Ghostbusters movie would succeed. We all need our heroes. Brian Michael Bendis wrote this poo poo, and it felt so completely out of left field with the rest of the issue it felt as if it were mandate. "Add some negro tragedy" from somebody up in the office. But Bendis is pretty high up on the food chain, so it could also just be his idea of what a black hero is supposed to be.
|
|
#
?
Nov 12, 2016 05:00
|
|