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Deki posted:Did Hillary do a single thing regarding BLM outside of the DNC Convention? She was confronted by a woman at a donor's dinner in South Carolina (?) and just kept going "let me talk, let me talk" until she was led away by security. Then Clinton immediately went "Now back to the issues."
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Nov 12, 2016 08:28
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Nov 12, 2016 08:29
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:She was confronted by a woman at a donor's dinner in South Carolina (?) and just kept going "let me talk, let me talk" until she was led away by security. Then Clinton immediately went "Now back to the issues." this was the black lady who was literally booed and hissed at by the affluent whites right
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Nov 12, 2016 08:32
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The hissing was hilarious
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Nov 12, 2016 08:33
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Oh Snapple! posted:this was the black lady who was literally booed and hissed at by the affluent whites right Yes! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WLPOotPu_RE The most important thing here, as with all things, is decorum.
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Nov 12, 2016 08:34
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Baloogan posted:The hissing was hilarious
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Nov 12, 2016 08:37
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Wikkheiser posted:Yeah that hissing thing. Is that just a rich people thing? I think its something rich old white women do
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Nov 12, 2016 08:38
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Fidel Castronaut posted:I remember when there was this little voice in my head that said "Remember Kerry? You can't win based purely on fear of the other guy!" But then the louder voice in my head said "But this is different because it's Trump and he is far scarier than Bush was." smh i have no regrets because ultimately it is out of your control, collectively and objectively you go to the ballot, punch in the ticket, and there you go. The rest is up to fate, inshallah~ Death is always certain, your knees bucklin from all the milk already? Aw shut yer yap and 'ave a 'arder bevvy fam 
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Nov 12, 2016 08:39
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the rich confirmed as lizard people
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Nov 12, 2016 08:39
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Deki posted:Did Hillary do a single thing regarding BLM outside of the DNC Convention? Not really, no. Remember when that one guy stepped back and let BLM have the mic? Haha, that guy was definitely going to keep us from firing up the black vote. Woo, boy. (Mods, I realize this is probatable and slightly off-topic, so hit me with that six if'n you like.) (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Nov 12, 2016 08:41
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:Yes! oh my god
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Nov 12, 2016 08:41
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I love that politifact says that it is "mostly true" not fully true that hillary called young black gang members super predators.
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Nov 12, 2016 08:44
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:I'm not implying that there was any sort of malice here, but the alienating nature of the way liberal writers approached politics and culture could have had an affect on which side people identified with. I used to just make fun of this kind of behavior, but it was so ubiquitous it may have actually had a non-negligible influence. I do understand that. I really do. I hate when people start talking about lovely comic book movies no one cares about while shoehorning political commentary into the conversation like the two are related and make sense together as co-occurring topics.
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Nov 12, 2016 08:47
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:Yes! Yep. Meanwhile when the same thing happened to Bernie he stepped aside and heard them out, and white people acted like just because he's a democrat BLM was crossing lines not trusting him
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Nov 12, 2016 08:49
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Princess Di posted:I do understand that. I really do. I hate when people start talking about lovely comic book movies no one cares about while shoehorning political commentary into the conversation like the two are related and make sense together as co-occurring topics. The DBZ Frieza Hillary Goku Obama post
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Nov 12, 2016 08:49
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Pomp posted:Yep. Meanwhile when the same thing happened to Bernie he stepped aside and heard them out, and white people acted like just because he's a democrat BLM was crossing lines not trusting him Just think of how much we missed out on all the Deplorables calling Bernie a cuck because he let black women take the podium.
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Nov 12, 2016 08:51
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:Just think of how much we missed out on all the Deplorables calling Bernie a cuck because he let black women take the podium. Then clearly you haven't been on the internet where that was his reputation.
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Nov 12, 2016 08:54
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I'm actually sure that 1-2 of my probations were literally for calling bernie a cuck for that moment
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Nov 12, 2016 08:56
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Princess Di posted:I do understand that. I really do. I hate when people start talking about lovely comic book movies no one cares about while shoehorning political commentary into the conversation like the two are related and make sense together as co-occurring topics. Just replace every mention of a superhero with a model of train and you'll see it for the Asperger's it is
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Nov 12, 2016 08:57
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Nonsense posted:The DBZ Frieza Hillary Goku Obama post 
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Nov 12, 2016 08:57
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Pick posted:Just replace every mention of a superhero with a model of train and you'll see it for the Asperger's it is
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Nov 12, 2016 08:58
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:Yes! this made me mad when i saw that in feb too the people criticizing it in the comments, same thing i've heard before "their execution was not good, they should air their grievances more politely at another time durr durr" well then if not now, then when? this is exactly the same logic as to why the establishment controls the dnc apparatus, so they can cherrypick and handwave it. Pomp posted:Yep. Meanwhile when the same thing happened to Bernie he stepped aside and heard them out, and white people acted like just because he's a democrat BLM was crossing lines not trusting him He's still an independent who ran as a democrat, and he was castigated constantly for it from the elites, so they spun it any way they could. Nature of this kind of politics, which is a blight atm
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Nov 12, 2016 08:59
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I just wanna say thanks for this thread, it's good and it's keeping me sane by way of thinking there's actually a future to start working toward. One that might even be better than the one in which Hill got annihilated by Tom Cotton in 2020. as she spent four years only getting more paranoid, secretive and somehow even more aloof and unrelatable.
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Nov 12, 2016 09:00
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:Just think of how much we missed out on all the Deplorables calling Bernie a cuck because he let black women take the podium. There's a subforum right over there outside these thread walls that had plenty of chances, especially in the old bernie thread~ and Baloogan posted:I'm actually sure that 1-2 of my probations were literally for calling bernie a cuck for that moment You definitely did. The optics ghost was not safe for Bernie.
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Nov 12, 2016 09:02
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:Yes! *castigates minority woman with legitimate grievances as she's escorted out* "Now back to the issues, the issues I think are important."
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Nov 12, 2016 09:05
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Missingnoleader posted:Then clearly you haven't been on the internet where that was his reputation. I have, but the general public hadn't. Lastgirl posted:this made me mad when i saw that in feb too Hillary saying "you're the first person who's ever asked me that" about calling black men superpredators, really drove home just how much she was insulated from general discontent. I know why the media never brought it up, because they thought it didn't matter. Well... It's fitting how we were all going on and on about how "nothing mattered" because we couldn't stump the Trump, only to end up having everything matter. Pener Kropoopkin has issued a correction as of 09:11 on Nov 12, 2016 |
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Nov 12, 2016 09:06
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I know Hillary was a terrible candidate, but it's important to to try and objectively identify the reasons for that rather than say that every single thing about her was terrible. She met with parents of young black men who were murdered by police, attended and spoke at black churches throughout the south. She overwhelmingly won the black vote in the primary, even in Michigan 68-28iirc, a state that Sanders upset her in. Hillary's under-performance in the general came mostly at the expense of millenials, who went for Bernie in the primary regardless of demographic. Also restricting voting rights for black people, which her campaign seriously hosed up on. By today's standards, the crime bill and the 'superpredators' comment are terrible, but I think it's disingenuous to remove them from the context of the 90's. I'm just a white dude, and not even American, so take anything I say here with a grain of salt. But go to the Negrotown thread and D&D and ask black posters there what they have to say. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Nov 12, 2016 09:12
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If she inspired so many black voters then why did so few turn out to vote. The struggle of the working class has devolved to the point where the artificially constructed walls of identity are no longer enough to garner votes alone. Just because Hillary showed up at black churches didn't mean she had any answers on how to stop crime and gentrification and revive social services and economies etc
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Nov 12, 2016 09:15
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Ego-bot posted:But go to the Negrotown thread and D&D and ask black posters there what they have to say. Sure lemme just take a lo- quote:Clinton is too loving good for America. 
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Nov 12, 2016 09:18
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Ego-bot posted:I know Hillary was a terrible candidate, but it's important to to try and objectively identify the reasons for that rather than say that every single thing about her was terrible. She met with parents of young black men who were murdered by police, attended and spoke at black churches throughout the south. She overwhelmingly won the black vote in the primary, even in Michigan 68-28iirc, a state that Sanders upset her in. Hillary's under-performance in the general came mostly at the expense of millenials, who went for Bernie in the primary regardless of demographic. Also restricting voting rights for black people, which her campaign seriously hosed up on. It could be argued that doing so was only performative on her part. Just because she knew the right words at the given moment regarding the horrors experienced by black people at the hands of US institutions didn't mean she had anything substantive to address them. Saying "black lives matter" is great but allowing the predatory lenders off the hook, the banks that hosed over black households by giving them subprime mortgages even when they qualified for regular ones, was one of the many ways that make such outreach feel superficial and insincere. (Obama's housing policies certainly did not help in this matter.) Additionally, it wasn't just the rust belt that has suffered horribly since the 2008 collapse as long-term unemployment has been devastating to predominantly black areas due to sheer lack of both private and public opportunities. She got some black celebrities to endorse her, but that's still a gigantic class disparity; their experiences are worlds apart from the general public.
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Nov 12, 2016 09:24
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Ego-bot posted:I know Hillary was a terrible candidate, but it's important to to try and objectively identify the reasons for that rather than say that every single thing about her was terrible. She met with parents of young black men who were murdered by police, attended and spoke at black churches throughout the south. She overwhelmingly won the black vote in the primary, even in Michigan 68-28iirc, a state that Sanders upset her in. Hillary's under-performance in the general came mostly at the expense of millenials, who went for Bernie in the primary regardless of demographic. Also restricting voting rights for black people, which her campaign seriously hosed up on. It's cool and all that Clinton was effective at performing retail politics (I don't mean to say she never cared about anything, but hear me out), but she gave young people the distinct impression that she didn't really care about them when she managed their expectations down after what Bernie was offering. "We won't make college free but we can make it cheaper." How? "We'll expand medicare, but first to citizens over the age of 55." Why? "We'll forgive student loan debts, but only for those becoming entrepreneurs." BUT THEY DON'T NEED DEBT FORGIVENESS. Hillary's supporters could go on endlessly about how she had very complex policy planks which were way more sensible than unrealistic socialist solutions, and if you just go to her website then it's all spelled out. Which - at best might convince the person you're arguing with, but the general public aren't interested in campaign websites and even if they go on there almost none of them are policy wonks. They don't care about the details they just want the good things to happen. So if you never campaign on a message of "I will make these good things happen" then there's no reason to think she cares about good things. Instead she gave off the impression that she only cared about the interests of her donors, which is probably true, and that was catastrophic for a campaign which managed her image so thoroughly that it made her look completely ungenuine in general. I got poo poo on in the Hillary thread for saying how bad it looked when they covered up her sickness, instead of trusting the American public with the knowledge that she was a bit under the weather. All I got were a bunch of excuses about why they can't trust the public because she's managing her image, but having such a thoroughly managed image which is shattered by the reality of fainting on 9/11 was part of the whole problem!
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Nov 12, 2016 09:25
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:I have, but the general public hadn't. The media really has a lot to do with the nothing matters mantra. It's really a c-spam staple of ironic nihilism and at this point it might as well affect the whole subforum, not just that 10k page of Trumpthread embracing it being shitfaced at 1 am every night prior to the election spamming Ed Balls. It really doesn't matter...until it actually starts mattering and your MSM spins so hard that it comes right back to the original narrative. Also the whole notion of living past a post-fact society to propagate "nothing matters" is really due to the fact that social media is an echo chamber that really does well to white noise and obfuscate the issues and actual facts, a lot of people were blindsided by election results because they just tweeted out polls in live time, self-assured from their group of followers. For things to actually matter again, there needs to be a more hardlined objective approach and I find that hard to see at this point where social media and the MSM is permeating the very fabric of it, interchangeably in a noise machine feedback. It's actually my main concern going forward if you're going to pick a more progressive candidate for the DNC chair and 2018, 2020 when most people are engaged in really dumb twitter wars well enough to stick their heads in the sand. I'd hate for them to not learn from this very mistake, especially since the media is so garbage at this. "Unfair" to Trump, but actually  unfair to Bernie or HIllary.It's really hard to see how journalistic integrity will be intact when they are now just competing for traffic and clicks  so they make terrible, misleading articles and staggeringly dumb headlines. Like how the hell are you going to address important issues directly if it isn't broken up into lovely listicles or what the gently caress ever. Example of such garbage: https://twitter.com/jonathanweisman/status/797120114042793984 Lastgirl has issued a correction as of 09:38 on Nov 12, 2016 |
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Nov 12, 2016 09:35
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Hillary was correct to brush off BLM, the whiniest protest group since Occupy. How full of care do you even have to be to say, literally to the President's face, in the President's own office, "we arn't being heard!" Like, holy gently caress, they explicitly glorify a number of infamous cop killers. No wonder most politicians won't give them more than lip service, if that. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Nov 12, 2016 09:41
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Lastgirl posted:Example of such garbage: https://twitter.com/jonathanweisman/status/797120114042793984 I said before that only the unprincipled wonks who got us in this mess would seriously think the solution is more racism, and oh look what we have here. A media wonk questioning Keith Ellis because he's a black muslim. Whattya figure. It's good to see everyone in that thread constantly dunking on him, because the time for decorum was long past. It was instructive how afraid media figures were at all of the deplorables for asking them how the rear end tastes, and when was the last time they had a black guy gently caress their wife - because what they're really afraid of is that nobody will take them seriously any more. There's no reason for anybody on the Left to treat this reactionary nonsense with kid gloves. It's torches and pitchforks time. Sun Wu Kampf posted:Hillary was correct to brush off BLM, the whiniest protest group since Occupy. How full of care do you even have to be to say, literally to the President's face, in the President's own office, "we arn't being heard!" You are part of the problem.
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Nov 12, 2016 09:42
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Certain leftists like freddie the beer/jacobin crew are going too far in asserting identity politics caused this failure. laid off steel workers aren't, like, logging onto tumblr and getting yelled at by teens.
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Nov 12, 2016 09:44
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Lastgirl posted:It's really hard to see how journalistic integrity will be intact when they are now just competing for traffic and clicks Personally, I'm getting real tired of the media essentially taking on "South Park Morality" and forcing a false equivalence over all issues. This is actually a subject I've been studying a bit lately and it is incredibly infuriating and I don't see an easy way to end that narrative.
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Nov 12, 2016 09:45
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:I got poo poo on in the Hillary thread for saying how bad it looked when they covered up her sickness, instead of trusting the American public with the knowledge that she was a bit under the weather. All I got were a bunch of excuses about why they can't trust the public because she's managing her image, but having such a thoroughly managed image which is shattered by the reality of fainting on 9/11 was part of the whole problem! To be fair the truth is in the middle on that. Seeing that she comes from second wave feminism, it's pretty understandable that she has to project an image and is secretive about health concerns, because it was kind of absurd and if anyone smells blood, they'll just go berserk. Clinton definitely has faced flak out of sexist motivation for decades, so it was kind of unfair to put that on her. What was irresponsible about this more really, on a larger scale is picking her as the nominee for these flaws and baggage with scandals, and having to carry that as part of the pressure because of her hubris, and perceived powerlust that's the bigger problem. So as much as I can relate with compassion on the sexism, her opponents certainly do not give a gently caress and that resulted in letting people down.
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Nov 12, 2016 09:47
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Sun Wu Kampf posted:Hillary was correct to brush off BLM, the whiniest protest group since Occupy. How full of care do you even have to be to say, literally to the President's face, in the President's own office, "we arn't being heard!"
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Nov 12, 2016 09:47
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I think I'm becoming over-yikes'd
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Nov 12, 2016 09:47
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goatse.cx posted:Certain leftists like freddie the beer/jacobin crew are going too far in asserting identity politics caused this failure. laid off steel workers aren't, like, logging onto tumblr and getting yelled at by teens. There's so much to digest about this electoral failure that people are going to be focusing on particular problems one at a time. We have to keep pushing them into addressing all the other reasons. Like, we all laughed at the Bundies and the Malheur Preserve occupiers - but they're motivated by legitimate concerns. They don't have enough land to feed their cattle, and to stay competitive in the market with agribusinesses, who swoop in and consolidate every acre. Who dispossess them from the only livelihoods they've ever known. How are they supposed to interpret this crisis? They're conditioned from birth to never point the finger at capitalism and markets, so it's natural for them to resort to conspiracy theories like that the BLM is secretly sitting on vast oil reserves they're hoarding from the public. If only they could take that land and exploit it for themselves everything would be fine. Even if that were true, after a few generations the oil would be gone. Everything would not be fine. Every member of the clan who is left out of inheritance is dispossessed once again because that's the sociopathic logic of capitalism. Instead of sending them dildos we should have been sending them literature. They probably just would have wiped their asses with it, but it would've been better than nothing. You have to go into those communities and tell them, you can't survive in the market place. There's not enough land for you to buy up and work it with your own family so here's what we're gonna do: we're gonna take all the land from the agricorps and the cattle barons and we're going to socialize it. You can raise your own cows and sell them for a profit, but the land belongs to the people. So you'll have to share it with your neighbors, and by working collectively you'll all become the new agricorp. A cooperative enterprise of united ranchers. Something that will guarantee sustainability for you, yours, theirs, and everybody else's indefinitely. And if you or your kids would rather end up doing something different with your lives, then you can. Because the cooperative and society are going to guarantee you an income. We've got to sell people on a future that's better than the one that's coming for them. No matter how deplorable they are. E: Speaking of pop cult chat - https://twitter.com/Chemzes/status/797239418838990850 Pener Kropoopkin has issued a correction as of 10:16 on Nov 12, 2016 |
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Nov 12, 2016 09:56
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