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Pener Kropoopkin posted:Hey, remember when all the banks were illegally foreclosing on peoples' mortgages through robosigning? I'm glad they got a pleasant fine for stealing homes. They also foreclosed on military vets and didn't follow the law which gives extra time to vets facing foreclosures.
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Nov 12, 2016 15:45
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:It doesn't even make sense on its face because Hillary won the popular vote. If she hadn't been the head of the worst presidential campaign in history, she would have won. She also still thinks that Hillary only lost because of sexism (my wife said she didn't have the heart to bring up any of the other reasons) so her narrative makes internal sense, it's just (a) wrong and (b) "white feminism" af
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Nov 12, 2016 15:46
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loquacius posted:so her narrative makes internal sense, it's just (a) wrong and (b) "white feminism" af 2016 Democratic party in a nutshell. Pener Kropoopkin has issued a correction as of 15:55 on Nov 12, 2016 |
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Nov 12, 2016 15:52
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Deki posted:In all fairness, wasn't it an open secret that funds for rebuilding NY were traded for Hillary's cooperation RE: Iraq?
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Nov 12, 2016 15:54
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Baloogan posted:The hissing was hilarious What else do you expect when you needle an old windbag?
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Nov 12, 2016 16:02
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I was thinking before I hope this time the gop can't blame the dems for loving over their base when nothing gets better. But gently caress it. I want the dems to go full scorched earth back. They declared war a long time ago it's time to actually fight it. Quote Cruz about 8 justice court has precedent until you pass out. Investigate voter suppression, ballot destruction, whatever for the election. Give Trump the full BENGHAZI circus
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Nov 12, 2016 16:03
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comedyblissoption posted:this sounds like something hillary supporters manufactured out of whole cloth to justify her terrible vote for the iraq war The only reason the Freedom Tower took so long to complete was arguments over what it actually should be. Lets not pretend that New York as a state couldn't have built that entirely without Federal support (in fact some of the elites there would have loved those bragging rights).
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Nov 12, 2016 16:08
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VikingSkull posted:The only reason the Freedom Tower took so long to complete was arguments over what it actually should be. Lets not pretend that New York as a state couldn't have built that entirely without Federal support (in fact some of the elites there would have loved those bragging rights). IIRC the Freedom Tower was delayed for so long because the landlords were holding out for better prices.
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Nov 12, 2016 16:10
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SHY NUDIST GRRL posted:I was thinking before I hope this time the gop can't blame the dems for loving over their base when nothing gets better. But gently caress it. I want the dems to go full scorched earth back. They declared war a long time ago it's time to actually fight it. Quote Cruz about 8 justice court has precedent until you pass out. Investigate voter suppression, ballot destruction, whatever for the election. Give Trump the full BENGHAZI circus After we get our own house in order I'm 100% for this. The Keith-Ellison-led DNC can make this their pet project.
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Nov 12, 2016 16:12
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Jenner posted:This is one of the things that really makes me sour by the way. That liberals fall in line, are more willing to cooperate, and try to play nice with others. When Democrats controlled the House and Senate at the end of the Bush years we not only worked with Republicans and let then pass legislation but we, after a bit of bullshit on our end, actually accepted his Supreme Court Justice nominee. There are dnc sycophants that will now come out of the woodwork and cry about the majority in congress not being that big and that those darned republicans were just so obstructionist. This is just so loving ridiculous it boggles my mind. Look at this poo poo: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/111th_United_States_Congress Party standings in the Senate for most of this Congress 57 Democrats 2 Independents, caucusing with Democrats 41 Republicans Final party distribution in the House of Representatives Democratic Party: 255 members. Republican Party: 179 members. Democrats had ~58% voting share in both chambers. Democrat sycophants are literally arguing that democrats can't do anything meaningful and will roll over and die and just be corporate stooges unless they get over 60% in both houses. It's loving incredulous. Democrats deserved this loss.
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Nov 12, 2016 16:14
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:IIRC the Freedom Tower was delayed for so long because the landlords were holding out for better prices. Yeah there was that, too, but that's normal NYC behavior. In any case, tying Hillary's support for Iraq to the rebuilding efforts in NYC seems like revisionist history to me, and even if it's true, that speaks volumes as to why the DC machine needed to be set aflame and also why Hillary is crooked as gently caress. At the base level, it shows her willingness to sell out the entire nation in exchange for political points.
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Nov 12, 2016 16:18
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VikingSkull posted:Yeah there was that, too, but that's normal NYC behavior. She claimed contributions were just a reward for her doing such a good job after 9/11. I guess she failed to mention her now released private speeches in which she said it everyone's fault the market crashed, not the greed of wall street being the primary cause.
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Nov 12, 2016 16:19
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SHY NUDIST GRRL posted:I was thinking before I hope this time the gop can't blame the dems for loving over their base when nothing gets better. 1) They will blame the dems regardless, and even if they didn't, 2) they'd blame whichever minorities are that moment's most convenient scapegoat.
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Nov 12, 2016 16:23
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etalian posted:She claimed contributions were just a reward for her doing such a good job after 9/11. quote:Predatory lending was largely carried out by smaller, non-Wall Street institutions like Countrywide Financial; the crisis itself was centered not on big banks but on 'shadow banks' like Lehman Brothers that weren't necessarily that big. Taibbi slams this fuckhead down: http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/why-the-banks-should-be-broken-up-20160408
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Nov 12, 2016 16:24
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comedyblissoption posted:krugman would agree! in his series of anti-bernie articles during the primaries, this shithead wrote: yeah the implosion of things like mortgage backed securities was due to how massive banks such as GS kept on pushing and also blessing more "safe" mortgage back securities despite know they they contained high risk loans. They even offloaded the toxic assets to Fannie Mac basically the taxpayer despite know the assets had major problems.
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Nov 12, 2016 16:26
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Captain_Maclaine posted:1) They will blame the dems regardless, and even if they didn't, 2) they'd blame whichever minorities are that moment's most convenient scapegoat. I shod have stuck "convincingly" in there, but yeah I'm not optimistic about anything piercing the cognitive dissonance
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Nov 12, 2016 16:30
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licking the boot of wall st and not criminally indicting ANYONE for the 2008 crisis or the loving robo-foreclosure scandal is entirely on obama and the democrats. you can't loving fall back and try to blame the republicans here. there were loving criminal cases there. federal judges were publically appalled when the obama doj and sec were just going after fines for mass fraud and wondered why they weren't going after criminal charges based on the cases for the fines. people are loving pissed about it and the wall st financial institutions are one of the most unpopular institutions in the united states if not the most unpopular and then you push a candidate who is funded gigantically by wall st and got millions of dollars of in giant bags of money of personal enrichment raining down on her head and put her at the top of the ticket just lmao at anyone crying over the dems losing
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Nov 12, 2016 16:31
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comedyblissoption posted:Democrats had their chance in the 2008 congress. They had gigantic almost super-majorities in both the house and senate and the presidency. They proceeded to use this overwhelming mandate for change and an economic crisis to be what ralph nader predicted: corporate stooges. They spent their 'political capital' licking the boot of wall st and the health and pharma corporations. i'm sympathetic to this point of view but you do actually have to reckon with the existence of the filibuster if you want to take this line, rather than just taking a percentage like a power level. i find the decision not to remove it understandable even if it turned out an error in hindsight. but of course, when they passed the healthcare law it was via a procedural trick to avoid the filibuster, which should have been taken as an opportunity to make it less corporate and more effective since they no longer needed every single vote. and so on. there's no escaping the compromised nature of the 2008 congress Captain_Maclaine posted:1) They will blame the dems regardless, and even if they didn't, 2) they'd blame whichever minorities are that moment's most convenient scapegoat. this is key imo, be prepared for racists you think should be listening to you doubling down on how minorities haven't been harassed enough yet and that's why things are still bad again: improving margins among the wwc may well not come from directly converting trump voters, but getting people who stayed home because clinton = oligarch and trump = oligarch clown bigot rapist back to the polls
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Nov 12, 2016 16:32
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comedyblissoption posted:licking the boot of wall st and not criminally indicting ANYONE for the 2008 crisis or the loving robo-foreclosure scandal is entirely on obama and the democrats. you can't loving fall back and try to blame the republicans here. As boss of the executive branch, Obama could have requested the DOJ and FBI do a comprehensive investigation of wall street. This didn't happen, they got a bailout instead of jail. Even now we are still seeing finance sector crime like the Wells Fargo account signup scam or HSBC being caught laundering money for terrorists.
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Nov 12, 2016 16:33
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SHY NUDIST GRRL posted:I was thinking before I hope this time the gop can't blame the dems for loving over their base when nothing gets better. But gently caress it. I want the dems to go full scorched earth back. They declared war a long time ago it's time to actually fight it. Quote Cruz about 8 justice court has precedent until you pass out. Investigate voter suppression, ballot destruction, whatever for the election. Give Trump the full BENGHAZI circus lol you need to have Congressional presence to do this. And if we get that while Trump is still in power, if the Democrats aren't holding hearings into every single shady business deal then they deserve to be crushed into a fine dust.
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Nov 12, 2016 16:36
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The financial crash was a no-poo poo point for both parties to decide whether they backed the people or banks/business. No one picked the people.
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Nov 12, 2016 16:36
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Peel posted:i'm sympathetic to this point of view but you do actually have to reckon with the existence of the filibuster if you want to take this line, rather than just taking a percentage like a power level. i find the decision not to remove it understandable even if it turned out an error in hindsight. the democrats showed their true colors in 2008 and had their chance. they hosed it up.
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Nov 12, 2016 16:36
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comedyblissoption posted:They had gigantic almost super-majorities in both the house and senate and the presidency. comedyblissoption posted:Party standings in the Senate for most of this Congress One of these things is not like the other, one of these things just doesn't belong. What country are you from? It's understandable you might not know the sheer level of Republican obstructionism if you're not from here, but they filibustered their rear end off from 2007 to 2012, 380 total filibusters if I remember right. edit: We went six years as a nation with no budget. Their feelings get really hurt when the voters don't vote them in. Republicans can get laws passed with a near majority, democrats require a super majority + a few to get past the blue dogs. That's the advantage of one party being an authoritarian party and another being a compromise party.
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Nov 12, 2016 16:36
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Proud Christian Mom posted:The financial crash was a no-poo poo point for both parties to decide whether they backed the people or banks/business. No one picked the people. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mcJmzEawWi0
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Nov 12, 2016 16:37
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Harry Reid was the most ineffective Senate Majority Leader in living history
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Nov 12, 2016 16:38
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Got an email from DFA with Jim Dean trying to get me to sign a petition to end the Electoral college because that's apparently the only reason why democrats lost and somehow the EC is "racist". Lol what?
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Nov 12, 2016 16:39
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clinton wouldve lost a popular vote election if there was a popular vote election the margin that hillfolk are crying about is loving tiny
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Nov 12, 2016 16:41
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comedyblissoption posted:krugman would agree! in his series of anti-bernie articles during the primaries, this shithead wrote: Remembering that now Paul Krugman will never be rewarded for his bootlicking hackjob bullshit has been a light in the darkness for me a couple times this week  I mean, there's no telling how much of the poo poo we're in now is the direct result of his efforts, but at least he's not gonna get sec treasury for it
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Nov 12, 2016 16:41
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loquacius posted:Remembering that now Paul Krugman will never be rewarded for his bootlicking hackjob bullshit has been a light in the darkness for me a couple times this week krugman has the most punchable face in media
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Nov 12, 2016 16:42
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Dr_0ctag0n posted:Got an email from DFA with Jim Dean trying to get me to sign a petition to end the Electoral college because that's apparently the only reason why democrats lost and somehow the EC is "racist". Minorities disproportionately live in areas the EC devalues, so therefore the EC is racist. It doesn't follow if you measure intent, but you could make a case for it being racist in effect. Honestly the EC seems undemocratic and super outdated in 21st century society and I can't think of a reason it should continue existing 
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Nov 12, 2016 16:43
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comedyblissoption posted:the bush presidency never had as large of a majority in congress and were able to successfully push their agenda. yeah, because the democrats didn't systematically filibuster and in fact many voted with the republicans on key issues like iraq. which is another revelation of their true colours well before 2008, of course. but republican awareness of and willingness to use every procedural lever is an element of their strength and it's something post-obama democrats should emulate now that the arms-limitation treaty has been torn up
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Nov 12, 2016 16:44
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pathetic little tramp posted:One of these things is not like the other, one of these things just doesn't belong.
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Nov 12, 2016 16:44
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The EC is a positive if only for us not having 2000 Florida happen across the entire country in the event of a close popular vote
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Nov 12, 2016 16:44
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loquacius posted:Minorities disproportionately live in areas the EC devalues, so therefore the EC is racist. It doesn't follow if you measure intent, but you could make a case for it being racist in effect. I agree, but DFA needs to be calling for complete upheaval of the DNC and democratic party and making calls to grassroots action, not sending it's members e-mails with the subject line "Trump didn't win the election" and the first line saying "hillary Clinton won the election" lol
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Nov 12, 2016 16:46
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Total vote count update: Total votes counted are now up to 128.52 million. Should easily surpass 2012's 129.24 million by early next week. 2016 is likely to break 2008's 131.47 million votes for biggest election in American history. Current totals: Hillary Clinton: 61,138,577 (47.57%) Donald Trump: 60,470,406 (47.05%) Other: 6,916,543 (5.38%) 2012 totals, for comparison: Barack Obama: 65,918,507 (51.01%) Willard "Mitt" Romney: 60,934,407 (47.15%) Other: 2,384,728 (1.85%) Trump should easily pass Romney, but will likely still fall short of Bush 04, making him the third straight Republican candidate who couldn't touch Bush 04's vote total in far higher turnout elections. Clinton will likely end up around 63 million votes, surpassing Bush 04's 62 million and making her the third-highest vote-getter ever. Current rough estimate of final %s: Clinton ~48.5, Trump ~46.5, putting Trump closer to McCain territory than even Romney territory. Clinton +2 would mean that the polls showing Clinton +3 were basically right, and that the problem was that Clinton's votes were so grossly misapportioned that even a pretty resounding 2 point lead would leave her seriously underwater in the Electoral College.
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Nov 12, 2016 16:46
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loquacius posted:Honestly the EC seems undemocratic and super outdated in 21st century society and I can't think of a reason it should continue existing
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Nov 12, 2016 16:48
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comedyblissoption posted:i felt extraordinary relief upon realizing this too It was interesting reading Hill Folk posts about how having massive wall street banks committing fraud was not a root cause of the crash.
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Nov 12, 2016 16:48
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Proud Christian Mom posted:The EC is a positive if only for us not having 2000 Florida happen across the entire country in the event of a close popular vote I think we learned enough lessons from 2000 Florida's bullshit hole-punch voting system for that kind of clusterfuck to be unlikely to happen again Dr_0ctag0n posted:I agree, but DFA needs to be calling for complete upheaval of the DNC and democratic party and making calls to grassroots action, not sending it's members e-mails with the subject line "Trump didn't win the election" and the first line saying "hillary Clinton won the election" lol DFA hasn't been anything more than a DNC outreach program for a while. I agree it'd be great if they were calling for upheaval, but the party line is this and I can think of worse party lines The DNC might be able to win elections WITHOUT reform if they get rid of the EC. I'm not surprised that's the course of action they're calling for.
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Nov 12, 2016 16:48
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It's a group founded by howard dean and probably going to support him during his DNC chair run. of course it's gonna push the feel good narrative instead of painful truths it's establishment neoliberal remember always that we are in a civil war right now
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Nov 12, 2016 16:50
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Sheng-ji Yang posted:has anyone posted Bernie's op ed in here yet, cus its pretty good nytimes commenters loving own quote:Bernie Sanders: quote:We lost the presidency by less than a percent in a handful of battleground states. It appears Bernie supporters who abandoned the Democratic Party threw our friends, family, and themselves in the wood chipper out of petulance and a demand for the whole loaf or nothing at all. They should have been smart enough to see through the smokescreen but chose to believe the worst about Hillary Clinton, one of the most qualified candidates, make or female, for president.
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Nov 12, 2016 16:50
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