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pathetic little tramp posted:you don't pay dues to be a member of the democratic party and yes it does not make sense to allow people from other parties vote in your party's primary, why would you ever allow that Well, can you imagine a future where a party might nominate someone party loyalists love but independents hate, costing them the general? That would be a huge mistake. Better to nominate someone independents are also willing to get behind, which is why a fairly run primary that gives them a voice is a strength.
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Nov 12, 2016 18:40
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Another thing we need to point out is that the reason our military got to the size it is and spending on it almost never goes down, is because a large bulk of it is basically just a government jobs program to employ people without much other prospects, either through arms manufacturing or enlistment benefits. So conservatives already support a massive scale socialist government manufacturing and jobs program, but one that is quite possibly the worst one you could design, because A) Private companies skim almost all the profits for their owners, B) Extra tanks, planes, and bombs that sit unneeded don't provide utility or improve the lives of anyone once they're built. C) Once you start building all this stuff, there's always going to be people on the hunt for an excuse to use it, and that leads to horrible hosed up wars and bad foreign policy decisions. So let's take a big chunk of what we spend on military now, a big chunk of the taxes the elite aren't paying, and use it to build literally anything else. Provide capital grants to privately managed but 100% worker owned companies, so we can tell people "Not only are we going to give you the money to start a business, factory, startup, or whatever and provide jobs here, any profits will go entirely to the people who work there." Put that out there, don't run from it, and let the Republicans poo poo all over it and see what happens. Maybe I'm wrong and that pitch goes down in flames but Jesus the safe mealy mouthed middle way version already failed.
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Nov 12, 2016 18:42
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FuriousxGeorge posted:Well, can you imagine a future where a party might nominate someone party loyalists love but independents hate, costing them the general? That would be a huge mistake. Better to nominate someone independents are also willing to get behind, which is why a fairly run primary that gives them a voice is a strength. Can you imagine a future where a party nominate someone from a party they is a total Cruz poo poo show and members of another party vote for that guys to gently caress up the chances of a more charismatic guy?
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Nov 12, 2016 18:43
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HOTLANTA
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mrmcd posted:Another thing we need to point out is that the reason our military got to the size it is and spending on it almost never goes down, is because a large bulk of it is basically just a government jobs program to employ people without much other prospects, either through arms manufacturing or enlistment benefits. The TSA is also pretty clearly just a govt jobs program.
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Nov 12, 2016 18:44
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Captain Internet posted:Can you imagine a future where a party nominate someone from a party they is a total Cruz poo poo show and members of another party vote for that guys to gently caress up the chances of a more charismatic guy? Ah yes, the pied piper strategy. Let's hope no one is clever enough to try that.
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Nov 12, 2016 18:44
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Captain Internet posted:Can you imagine a future where a party nominate someone from a party they is a total Cruz poo poo show and members of another party vote for that guys to gently caress up the chances of a more charismatic guy? Superdelegates to the rescue!
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Nov 12, 2016 18:45
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Pick posted:The TSA is also pretty clearly just a govt jobs program. Its a jobs program for people not stupid enough to enlist
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Nov 12, 2016 18:46
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No one ever explained to working class America why immigration is good, economically.
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Nov 12, 2016 18:46
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Zikan posted:people are angry. people want the fight Also why should the current state and the very bad leadership of the DNC be maintained when it failed so miserably?
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Nov 12, 2016 18:48
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Howard Dean is Iron Man Kieth Ellison is Captain America Bernie Sanders is Nick Fury i havent seen the movie
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Nov 12, 2016 18:51
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more epic Clinton campaign failure https://twitter.com/jimtankersley/status/797492671631790084 im gonna get off the internet and smoke now
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Nov 12, 2016 18:51
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Pick posted:No one ever explained to working class America why immigration is good, economically. unfortunately in many circumstances it is used to displace labor and reduce their bargaining position. this only really mostly benefits the wealthy with miniscule benefits for the workers that aren't being undermined. the worker class is generally right to rebel against immigration that just serves to undermine their labor position. calling them racists xenophobes and stupid hicks voting against their own self-interests is so loving patronizing in this context.
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Nov 12, 2016 18:53
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Pick posted:No one ever explained to working class America why immigration is good, economically. Illegal immigration is actually bad for workers, because it allows owners to take desperate people and use them as tools to break unions, skirt workplace rights and regulations, and drive down wages. Legal immigrants can be allies and don't allow businesses to do those things if you have a real and meaningful system of worker protection. They also pay taxes and spend money in the economy where they live.
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Nov 12, 2016 18:55
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Zikan posted:more epic Clinton campaign failure It's cool to know that, despite not graduating college yet, I'm a better media buyer than whoever the jackass in charge of this was.
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Nov 12, 2016 18:55
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Zikan posted:more epic Clinton campaign failure Ok, now I'm seriously starting to wonder if the Clinton campaign actually understood how the EC works.
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Nov 12, 2016 18:57
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Zikan posted:more epic Clinton campaign failure MOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOK
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Nov 12, 2016 18:58
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Zikan posted:more epic Clinton campaign failure HOW WERE THEY THIS BAD AT THEIR JOB? 
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Nov 12, 2016 18:58
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"Hahahahahahaha look at those Trump doofuses clicking buttons on 270towin.com. Don't they have a real ~data analytics operation~ ?" *Throws all the money into winning the LA media war*
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Nov 12, 2016 18:59
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The greatest thing the right ever did was build the narrative that businesses are great and business owners are wonderful people and it was immigrants that stole your job, instead of it being given to them by that great, wonderful, virtuous business owner
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Nov 12, 2016 19:00
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It's cool to see validation that the campaign staffed by privileged insiders exchanging favors only focused on the areas relevant to their life experiences!
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Nov 12, 2016 19:00
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Astroclassicist posted:HOW WERE THEY THIS BAD AT THEIR JOB?
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Nov 12, 2016 19:02
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"Hahahahahaha the Trump campaign is clearly just an elaborate way to grift donors. We're gonna win so bigly."
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Nov 12, 2016 19:02
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mrmcd posted:Illegal immigration is actually bad for workers, because it allows owners to take desperate people and use them as tools to break unions, skirt workplace rights and regulations, and drive down wages. Legal immigrants can be allies and don't allow businesses to do those things if you have a real and meaningful system of worker protection. They also pay taxes and spend money in the economy where they live. so allow workers to file labor complaints regardless of their residence status and that all goes away, and you still have a hard-working labor class who, as a reminder, commit LESS crimes than native-born citizens (https://www.americanimmigrationcoun...campaign=Buffer) and actually NOTICEABLY REDUCE crime rates in communities that have high numbers of recent immigrants moving in (http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10940-013-9210-5) why did nobody ever bother to bring this up during the 18 months of campaigning that painted all immigrants as violent rapists? who loving knows
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Nov 12, 2016 19:03
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Pick posted:No one ever explained to working class America why immigration is good, economically. Equating all immigration is part of the problem. poo poo like 'most US Nobel Prize winners are immigrants!' rings hollow because all but a small group of super racists want to completely shut the borders to any type of immigration. Bringing in smart and successful people who go through the process isn't what a working class person is opposed to. They're opposed to having competition for the dwindling number of low skill jobs from people who accept terrible pay and working conditions because they are even more desperate than everybody else.
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Nov 12, 2016 19:04
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comedyblissoption posted:the reports of the campaign being filled with incompetent trust fund kids might be true??? Incompetent trust fund kids and, apparently, replacement-level Silicon Valley data-heads too busy huffing the fumes of their own Supercomputers to go outside and check to make sure that the ground hadn't dropped out from under their feet.
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Nov 12, 2016 19:05
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this isn't the first time that clinton hired incompetent people to run her campaign who didn't understand the basic structure of the election http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/5/8/511974/- quote:Mark Penn, Clinton pollster, ignoramus, greedy hypocrite, union-breaker, and fat piece of lard, reportedly does not have the quality of "intelligence" to counterbalance these aforementioned traits, according to a report by Karen Tumulty. I was going on the assumption that he was just a greedy moron. I figured, this guy MUST be brilliant, he has awful people skills! But no. Apparently, not only did he drive Clinton's campaign into the ground, he did it with very little knowledge of the campaign: so little knowledge, in fact, that he THOUGHT DEMOCRATIC PRIMARIES WERE WINNER TAKE ALL.
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Nov 12, 2016 19:05
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Fullhouse posted:so allow workers to file labor complaints regardless of their residence status and that all goes away, and you still have a hard-working labor class who, as a reminder, commit LESS crimes than native-born citizens (https://www.americanimmigrationcoun...campaign=Buffer) and actually NOTICEABLY REDUCE crime rates in communities that have high numbers of recent immigrants moving in (http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10940-013-9210-5) Crime stats are lower in communities that are terrified of being noticed by authorities? Huh. Thoguh has issued a correction as of 19:12 on Nov 12, 2016 |
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Nov 12, 2016 19:07
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mrmcd posted:Another thing we need to point out is that the reason our military got to the size it is and spending on it almost never goes down, is because a large bulk of it is basically just a government jobs program to employ people without much other prospects, either through arms manufacturing or enlistment benefits. i've been saying for years that military enlistment is excellent from a benefits and job training perspective and a similar approach should be given to people sent to work on infrastructure and public works projects instead of sitting on base in the middle east/asia jerking around, and then a few months ago learned about the Civilian Conservation Corps i like to think that proved me retroactively right and we should just have one of those again
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Nov 12, 2016 19:07
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comedyblissoption posted:this isn't the first time that clinton hired incompetent people to run her campaign who didn't understand the basic structure of the election Yeah, I just went back and read up on her 2008 campaign and it seems like it was plagued by all of the same issues and she didn't seem to learn anything from those mistakes this time around. 2008 was a long time ago and I was really young, my memory was that Obama was just such a great candidate that his popularity overwhelmed Hillary. Reading the story again now it seems like she still probably would have beat Obama had her campaign not been an utter disaster.
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Nov 12, 2016 19:10
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mrmcd posted:Illegal immigration is actually bad for workers, because it allows owners to take desperate people and use them as tools to break unions, skirt workplace rights and regulations, and drive down wages. Legal immigrants can be allies and don't allow businesses to do those things if you have a real and meaningful system of worker protection. They also pay taxes and spend money in the economy where they live. Right, but the left never explained the pro/cons except that we're a nation of immigrants and everyone deserves a chance at America's (long-dead) Square Deal.
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Nov 12, 2016 19:12
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Pick posted:Right, but the left never explained the pro/cons except that we're a nation of immigrants and everyone deserves a chance at America's (long-dead) Square Deal. You can't reconcile a message of 'The unskilled labor jobs are gone, deal with it' and 'we need to bring in a bunch of unskilled labor to compete with you because they deserve a chance and if you don't like it you are a racist'. You're asking people to not only vote against their own self interest, but your doing it in a condescending manner.
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Nov 12, 2016 19:15
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MaxxBot posted:Yeah, I just went back and read up on her 2008 campaign and it seems like it was plagued by all of the same issues and she didn't seem to learn anything from those mistakes this time around. 2008 was a long time ago and I was really young, my memory was that Obama was just such a great candidate that his popularity overwhelmed Hillary. Reading the story again now it seems like she still probably would have beat Obama had her campaign not been an utter disaster. I think she actually did learn from the mistakes of 2008; the problem is that she just made new ones. Her campaign got hosed in 2008 because the chief strategist, Penn, was an idiot who, as the above poster pointed out, didn't know that Dem delegates were allocated proportionally. In 2016, there was no chief strategist, no shot-caller, just a committee of anonymous nobodies, with Robby Mook as the King of the Anonymous Nobodies. Nobody seems to have had the authority to actually set an agenda or change strategies, no one was thinking creatively, everyone was just involved in their own little worlds marching lockstep towards disaster because goddamn Ava the GOTV Computer told them to. And they ignored Bill Clinton telling them otherwise, lol. HannibalBarca has issued a correction as of 19:20 on Nov 12, 2016 |
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Nov 12, 2016 19:17
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Pick posted:Right, but the left never explained the pro/cons except that we're a nation of immigrants and everyone deserves a chance at America's (long-dead) Square Deal.
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Nov 12, 2016 19:17
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Pick posted:Right, but the left never explained the pro/cons except that we're a nation of immigrants and everyone deserves a chance at America's (long-dead) Square Deal. "Everyone deserves a shot at whatever scraps still litter your dying town. Also your bosses are holding their families hostage in poverty overseas. My nanny Manuela is so warm and wonderful you racists."
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Nov 12, 2016 19:17
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Astroclassicist posted:HOW WERE THEY THIS BAD AT THEIR JOB? The campaign also barely put any resources in Michigan seeing it as safe blue state.
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Nov 12, 2016 19:19
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MaxxBot posted:Yeah, I just went back and read up on her 2008 campaign and it seems like it was plagued by all of the same issues and she didn't seem to learn anything from those mistakes this time around. 2008 was a long time ago and I was really young, my memory was that Obama was just such a great candidate that his popularity overwhelmed Hillary. Reading the story again now it seems like she still probably would have beat Obama had her campaign not been an utter disaster. I thought she learned her lesson because in the primary it seemed like the Bernie campaign was doing the Clinton 2008 greatest hits, but here we are.
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Nov 12, 2016 19:21
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Hillary's 2008 and 2016 campaigns were run under the assumption that it was her's to lose and that sort of hubris doesn't play well with any voters, Democrat or Republican.
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Nov 12, 2016 19:23
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Thoguh posted:You can't reconcile a message of 'The unskilled labor jobs are gone, deal with it' and 'we need to bring in a bunch of unskilled labor to compete with you because they deserve a chance and if you don't like it you are a racist'. You're asking people to not only vote against their own self interest, but your doing it in a condescending manner. Then why were the Dems in favor? To curry favor with minorities? Because they take economic advantage of these desperate people? Because they love artificially low food prices?
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Nov 12, 2016 19:26
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Zikan posted:more epic Clinton campaign failure I keep going back to laugh at this.
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Nov 12, 2016 19:27
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Oh Snapple! posted:I keep going back to laugh at this. Maybe their big data analysis showed that California was a swing state?
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Nov 12, 2016 19:28
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