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Cerebral Bore posted:Actually I think you'll find that removing incompetent failures from important positions of power is, in fact, Cool and Good. Stop strawmanning. Removing incompetent people is good. Ideological purges are not. Presumptive candidates stacking the DNC is either good or bad. Pick one and stick with it.
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Nov 12, 2016 18:01
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Bernie is not the presumptive candidate
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Nov 12, 2016 18:02
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theflyingorc posted:Bernie is not the presumptive candidate Until he rules out running he is.
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Nov 12, 2016 18:03
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Xae posted:Until he rules out running he is. 
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Nov 12, 2016 18:08
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Xae posted:And there it is. we're in open war still, our side and your side. if you want us to adopt your principles, or take it easy on you because of some weird idea of fairness you're insane. our party is drat near dead after this election. we are perilously close to the repubs having control enough to change the constitution. this is a fight for survival now
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Nov 12, 2016 18:09
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Xae posted:Until he rules out running he is. I am really skeptical of putting forward a candidate who will need to survive to the age of 87.
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Nov 12, 2016 18:09
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What do we know about Duckworth and why should we hate her?
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Nov 12, 2016 18:15
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Condiv posted:we're in open war still, our side and your side. if you want us to adopt your principles, or take it easy on you because of some weird idea of fairness you're insane. our party is drat near dead after this election. we are perilously close to the repubs having control enough to change the constitution. this is a fight for survival now You are in full panic mode. Don't even try to deny it.We are not at war. Our "sides" are not at war. Do not give in to panic. A very effective attack against Clinton was that she was a "party insider" and she "stacked the deck". This worked because she was and did. She stacked the DNC. Now, if Sanders does the exact same poo poo Clinton did it opens him up to the exact same attacks. Plus the added charges of hypocrisy and flip flopping. In 2020 if some Newcomer tries to run an campaign against Sanders that Newcomer can now rip into the Sanders and taint him. "My side" is trying to get you to stop loving up like Clinton did. Don't automatically assume everyone pointing out flaws or criticism is at war with you. Ellison should get the chair. But some olive branches (vice chairs) should go out to others. Others with strong progressive background understand "The King is Dead. Long live the King". We need to avoid internecine conflict, not embrace it. Part of that should be trying to depoliticize the administration Primary process. Lets get it away from presumptive nominees or power brokers being able to control the administration of the Primary process. Lets learn from the mistakes Clinton made instead of running around in a panic and repeating them.
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Nov 12, 2016 18:33
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the problem isn't "rigging" in the general sense it's that they apparatus is supposed to chose the better and more electable candidate (that's the entire reason superdelegates came into being) and they failed. there was also a lot of dumb poo poo like sanders winning a state handily but getting half the delegates or somehow losing delegates.
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Nov 12, 2016 18:36
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Xae posted:(When you see Sanders, substitute in "Sanders or his hand picked successor") Labour is a big stinking fart showing that this kind of think does not work. Third-wayers would rather see the right rule forever than their own party actually turning left when the crunch comes down.
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Nov 12, 2016 18:37
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MiddleOne posted:Labour is a big stinking fart showing that this kind of think does not work. Third-wayers would rather see the right rule forever than their own party actually turning left when the crunch comes down. Then purge and part run far to the left. You'll just end up handing Trump another 4 years. Groovelord Neato posted:the problem isn't "rigging" in the general sense it's that they apparatus is supposed to chose the better and more electable candidate (that's the entire reason superdelegates came into being) and they failed. That dumb poo poo worked both ways and should be fixed. All pledged delegates should be assigned out of a Primary Election. gently caress Caucuses.
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Nov 12, 2016 18:40
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you don't seem to grasp that sanders would have won. and pretty easily. that's why these moves are occurring.
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Nov 12, 2016 18:40
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Xae posted:You are in full panic mode. drat straight, donald trump is president. maybe you missed it? your side was in clear control and flubbed a vital election in the most idiotic ways. and now we are having the possibility of no left representation for a long, long time. now we are in the middle of a war for the heart of the party. that's the facts people who cling to neoliberalism are going to be purged because its a decrepit ideology which has led us to the brink
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Nov 12, 2016 18:41
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Groovelord Neato posted:you don't seem to grasp that sanders would have won. and pretty easily. that's why these moves are occurring. Actually he would have lost badly
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Nov 12, 2016 18:43
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Groovelord Neato posted:you don't seem to grasp that sanders would have won. and pretty easily. that's why these moves are occurring. Proving counter-factual is, by definition, impossible. If Bernie turns out 1% more of the base he wins handily. If he loses 1% of the base he loses handily. You are running around claiming that Clinton losing by less than 1% is a huge defeat while ignoring that the Left's signature issue, Single Payer, lost in Colorado by 60 points. Get real if you think he could have won easily. Condiv posted:people who cling to neoliberalism are going to be purged because its a decrepit ideology which has led us to the brink I doubt you can even define Neoliberalism with out going to Wikipedia. There is a drat good reason why we had the word filter. They should just word filter it to "human being". It is a meaningless pejorative at this point.
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Nov 12, 2016 18:45
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zegermans posted:Actually he would have lost badly this is why we will never win again.
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Nov 12, 2016 18:47
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Xae posted:You are running around claiming that Clinton losing by less than 1% is a huge defeat Against the most unpopular candidate in modern history! This was not the republican A-team, literally the only presidential candidate less liked than Hillary is Trump himself. It shouldn't even have been close and yet here we are.
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Nov 12, 2016 18:51
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Groovelord Neato posted:you don't seem to grasp that sanders would have won. and pretty easily. that's why these moves are occurring. Well, except for Bloomberg maybe ruining everything. The real mistake was that Sanders wasn't VP. 
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Nov 12, 2016 18:52
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theflyingorc posted:Well, except for Bloomberg maybe ruining everything. Tim Kaine was a nice guy and all but goddamn the Clinton/Kaine ticket was about as uninspiring as Gore/Lieberman
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Nov 12, 2016 18:54
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theflyingorc posted:Well, except for Bloomberg maybe ruining everything. Yeah actually, what is the story there. I never caught the story here during the down-run of the primary's.
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Nov 12, 2016 18:56
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theflyingorc posted:Well, except for Bloomberg maybe ruining everything. Honestly anyone other than a blue dog like Kaine would have been a smarter choice, his selection screamed of a "lets pull from the right" and hope to steal R voters who we have been calling racists for months, instead of say picking a minority candidate to completely lock up those voters, or a progressive candidate (not necessarily Bernie) who would shore up her "progressive" rhetoric which at least here in the PNW no one was actually buying. Jack2142 fucked around with this message at 19:18 on Nov 12, 2016 |
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Nov 12, 2016 18:57
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Trying to appeal to disaffected republicans was a mistake from the get-go, especially with Hillary Clinton. If you have evangelicals voting by 50 point margins for a thrice married sexual predator just because of his (R), there's no reason to believe actual issues could change a dedicated republican's mind. Sanders as VP would have been a much better idea. Or maybe some dark horse populist from one of the states she lost, but that'd require way more hindsight than literally anyone had prior to Wednesday morning.
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Nov 12, 2016 19:04
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Jack2142 posted:Honestly anyone other than a blue dog like Kaine would have been a smarter choice, his selection screamed of a "lets pull from the right" and hope to steal R voters who we have been calling racists for months, instead of say picking a minority candidate to completely lock up those voters, or a progressive candidate (not necessarily Bernie) who would shore up here "progressive" rhetoric which at least here in the PNW no one was actually buying. Well, he helped secure Virginia, which has value. But yeah, if i could go back in time and change one thing about the Clinton campaign, it's Sanders as VP
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Nov 12, 2016 19:05
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The Dems overreached. Their hubris made them overconfident and made them think they could grab states that haven't been blue for ages, if ever. Well, turns out they didn't go blue, and in fact many blue states went red this time. The biggest lesson from this is to never, ever take for granted what you already have.
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Nov 12, 2016 19:09
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e: dblpost
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Nov 12, 2016 19:10
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Xae posted:I doubt you can even define Neoliberalism with out going to Wikipedia. wow you're salty
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Nov 12, 2016 19:11
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Condiv posted:wow you're salty So yeah, you can't.
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Nov 12, 2016 19:11
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Jack2142 posted:Honestly anyone other than a blue dog like Kaine would have been a smarter choice, his selection screamed of a "lets pull from the right" and hope to steal R voters who we have been calling racists for months, instead of say picking a minority candidate to completely lock up those voters, or a progressive candidate (not necessarily Bernie) who would shore up here "progressive" rhetoric which at least here in the PNW no one was actually buying. Kaine' not a blue dog
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Nov 12, 2016 19:18
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Pollyanna posted:The Dems overreached. Their hubris made them overconfident and made them think they could grab states that haven't been blue for ages, if ever. Well, turns out they didn't go blue, and in fact many blue states went red this time. Blue Dog With Two Bones
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Nov 12, 2016 19:19
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WhiskeyJuvenile posted:Kaine' not a blue dog Picking a white democrat from the south will have them seen as a blue dog regardless of their actual positions and Kaine seemed to mostly be pretty bland and similar to Hilary with a little more folksy down home religion.
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Nov 12, 2016 19:21
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Xae posted:So yeah, you can't. if i posted anything in response to you you'd say i looked it up isn't that right? you're just real salty cause I mentioned neoliberalism and said it was a decrepit ideology democrats pursuing free-market bullshit and deregulation got us here. poo poo like nafta and the TPP got us here. we need to put that kind of policy behind us if we're gonna turn things around
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Nov 12, 2016 19:24
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So I guess we are at the purge part where leftist who sat out get to come and poo poo on the rest of the coalition who bothered to vote. Leftist are so weak can't get organized for midterms or gov races or statehouse races but now it's time. Lol
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Nov 12, 2016 19:38
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people like you are so ungodly dumb. no wonder this happened.
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Nov 12, 2016 19:40
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Nov 12, 2016 19:40
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Greataval posted:So I guess we are at the purge part where leftist who sat out get to come and poo poo on the rest of the coalition who bothered to vote. Leftist are so weak can't get organized for midterms or gov races or statehouse races but now it's time. Lol Its ok though, people are really going to vote for a Command Economy. Deep down everyone is just waiting for a return to planned economies of the 20s and 30s. The problem is the messaging, that is all.
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Nov 12, 2016 19:41
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how can you be sarcastic or smug when you just loving lost. and people told you we had a winning candidate way before.
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Nov 12, 2016 19:43
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Groovelord Neato posted:how can you be sarcastic or smug when you just loving lost. and people told you we had a winning candidate way before. Sanders has been in Washington for just as long as Clinton and yet accomplished less. His history puts him squarely into "literal communist" territory. He is a Jew in a pro-racism election whose closing argument consisted of "these global interests are bleeding you dry!" to shots of Jews. He would have lost the populist message to Trump easily while bring out an even lower share of black voters than Clinton.
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Nov 12, 2016 19:50
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a worse candidate than sanders almost won. i don't see how you clowns don't get it.
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Nov 12, 2016 19:52
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zegermans posted:Sanders has been in Washington for just as long as Clinton and yet accomplished less. His history puts him squarely into "literal communist" territory. He is a Jew in a pro-racism election whose closing argument consisted of "these global interests are bleeding you dry!" to shots of Jews. Yes, I suppose this is why he was crushing Trump in the polls. Thanks for your received wisdom, duder.
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Nov 12, 2016 19:55
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Groovelord Neato posted:a worse candidate than sanders almost won. i don't see how you clowns don't get it. Name one Legislative Accomplishment of Sanders during his 40 years in public office.
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Nov 12, 2016 19:55
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