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Pener Kropoopkin posted:You and your family are all a part of the problem. Your dad is a tool. You're so expertly conditioned by the DC bubble that you can't even tell when I'm not addressing you directly, because you identify so thoroughly with the class I was talking about. Wait who is Venom Snake? Why does he matter?
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Nov 13, 2016 18:28
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Dean had the same structural problems Bernie had with the primary where his support among existing members of the party wasn't enough to get enough traction before Super Tuesday. The primary's always going to be hostile to anti-establishment politics, although if you look to 2018 it will make 2020 easier in that regard. The scream is just what people point to because otherwise you have to come to grips that there was a good reason not to elect Kerry.
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Nov 13, 2016 18:28
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Lastgirl posted:actually the dean scream owned I loved it back in the day. Such energy was really refreshing with mumbles Bush and lich Cheney. And then Kerry...
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Nov 13, 2016 18:29
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it's cause the scream was unexpectedly high pitched and then the media
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Nov 13, 2016 18:29
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Dr_0ctag0n posted:Lol go watch the interview with Bernie and Mike before you say he's dumb. The man is not dumb. He may hold a few dumb positions (like everybody) but overall that was one of the most apt and fruitful conversations of this whole shitshow election. The DNC should be taking notes from that interview if they want to even try to appeal to the large portion of America that voted for Obama and stayed home for clinton. Mike has said other things. Yes he's right but I don't agree with everything he thinks.
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Nov 13, 2016 18:30
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Fuschia tude posted:Wait who is Venom Snake? Why does he matter? He was a mid-tier operative this year in the HRC campaign. Basically he would give us insider info. Obviously people are looking for a scapegoat, and considering he was the closest to the campaign, there you go.
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Nov 13, 2016 18:31
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Terror Sweat posted:is it a revelation? or is it a bunch of hacks desperately trying to keep their jobs when they see which way the wind is blowing Your only a hack if you think your not to blame
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Nov 13, 2016 18:31
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crazy cloud posted:no yeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaargh SHY NUDIST GRRL posted:I loved it back in the day. Such energy was really refreshing with mumbles Bush and lich Cheney. And then Kerry... "Ima kick in the door of the oval office, n Ima chop that mothafuckin desk in half. BEYAAAAAAAAAAAH."
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Nov 13, 2016 18:32
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FourLeaf posted:the dean scream actually wasn't what killed him. it was this: 
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Nov 13, 2016 18:32
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Lastgirl posted:the reality of the situation is Uh, like Trump's political connections and political capital? Christ it hasn't even been a week and y'all are retreating back into the echo chamber.
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Nov 13, 2016 18:34
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VOTE YES ON 69 posted:it's cause the scream was unexpectedly high pitched and then the media 
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Nov 13, 2016 18:35
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Mr. Jive posted:Uh, like Trump's political connections and political capital? He won the primary and had Pubis as a literal lap dog.
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Nov 13, 2016 18:35
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Mr. Jive posted:Uh, like Trump's political connections and political capital? Hill Folk never seem to learn, Hillary spent $1 billion and had every DC insider advantage you could think of especially in the DNC. She still lost
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Nov 13, 2016 18:37
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Venom Snake posted:He won the primary and had Pubis as a literal lap dog. Oh right I forgot he won the primary by reaching out to the Republican leadership thereby taking advantage of pre-existing structural resources
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Nov 13, 2016 18:37
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Mr. Jive posted:Oh right I forgot he won the primary by reaching out to the Republican leadership thereby taking advantage of pre-existing structural resources The literal turning point for him was Chris Christie endorsing him dude. Trump had plenty of greasy political operatives with him. Like as in THE most greasy
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Nov 13, 2016 18:38
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Baloogan posted:Now I really don't understand the Democratic party its values its principles excetera excetera but why was the dean scream so apocalyptic for Howard Dean? it wasn't, it was just the five second funny clip cherry on top of his disastrous loss in the Iowa primary
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Nov 13, 2016 18:38
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Mr. Jive posted:Uh, like Trump's political connections and political capital? This is not the best way to frame your outburst imo because you know he WON with exactly just that hth~  
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Nov 13, 2016 18:39
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if you don't think zionists should be allowed to commit war crimes YOU ARE UNAMERICAN, SIR
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Nov 13, 2016 18:39
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Aaaand now we're back to discussing how to co-opt neoliberalism as an means of advancing progressive causes under the radar of the establishment. For gently caress's sake.
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Nov 13, 2016 18:39
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Mr. Jive posted:Aaaand now we're back to discussing how to co-opt neoliberalism as an means of advancing progressive causes under the radar of the establishment. For gently caress's sake. ??? Keith as the head of the DNC along with a big party shake up seems like the opposite of that.
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Nov 13, 2016 18:40
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Mr. Jive posted:Aaaand now we're back to discussing how to co-opt neoliberalism as an means of advancing progressive causes under the radar of the establishment. For gently caress's sake. You missed the whole debate where we said the progressives should be in charge and you carpetbag the neolibs's political capital and money first before abandoning them altogether Completely different mechanization here Calm down 
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Nov 13, 2016 18:41
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So how good are Keith's chances looking right now? I know about Schumer, and now Harry Reid - anyone else on board?
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Nov 13, 2016 18:43
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Liz Warren and chuck schumer
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Nov 13, 2016 18:44
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cw0ifjpVTtY
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Nov 13, 2016 18:45
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Yeah sorry, I guess I am kind of flipping my lid. It's just that all this talk about figuring out how to get our hands on that sweet sweet DNC schmoozing machinery smells a lot like the Clintonite strategy of co-opting the system, which failed in a spectacular way.
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Nov 13, 2016 18:45
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Re: ACA generating so much hatred. I think a big problem is the fact that even a decent but not amazing health plan you get from work is still gonna be $5-7k per year in premiums. Hell, even my not totally poo poo HDHP plan was like $4,500. Most people don't know that though, because most or all of it is usually paid by the employer and don't think about it unless they look up that information or have to deal with COBRA coverage. Putting all the uninsured in basically the same system via exchanges was always gonna have a nightmare PR problem. On the one end, you have the working poor, so are actually going get good subsidies, but the process is complicated, it's hard to predict how much it will really cost, because it's income based. Have a good year and earned too much? Get ready for a huge tax bill. Had a bad year and earned too little? Thanks for loaning the insurance/government a couple grand for the whole year. Did MUCH worse than expected? Whoops now you don't qualify for a subsidy at all go get in line for medicaid and hope your governor doesn't try to kill you. So now you're constantly stressed and confused about this, as someone who's just trying to get by, even if you haven't turned against the program already. Then on the other end, you have pretty well off people who don't have an employer plan for whatever reason, and get no subsidies. They're now being told they have to cough up many thousands of dollars per year, while some other group on the other side of an arbitrary income line is receiving billions of dollars in subsidies. Plus the cheapest exchange plans are all kinda poo poo. Meanwhile all the people with employer plans don't really care that much if it stays the same, except they hear bad things, because exchanges = Obamacare, and it sure sounds like you don't wanna go on Obamacare if you lose your job. edit: I understand this is all mostly obvious in retrospect but we need to change direction on healthcare or fixing ACA, because going "Actually, the economics of healthcare is complicated and---" while the opposition bludgeons you over and over with the hammers you gave them... that strategy isn't working. mrmcd has issued a correction as of 18:51 on Nov 13, 2016 |
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Nov 13, 2016 18:47
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Mr. Jive posted:Yeah sorry, I guess I am kind of flipping my lid. It's just that all this talk about figuring out how to get our hands on that sweet sweet DNC schmoozing machinery smells a lot like the Clintonite strategy of co-opting the system, which failed in a spectacular way. well, they failed on step one of actually controlling the system
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Nov 13, 2016 18:47
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Even all these years later, I AM LEGIT loving PUMPED listening to this. TAKE THE WHITE HOUSE!! YEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAARRARARARAAAAGGGAGGHHH! TyroneGoldstein has issued a correction as of 18:51 on Nov 13, 2016 |
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Nov 13, 2016 18:49
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Venom Snake posted:well, they failed on step one of actually controlling the system also actually winning. At least it was less dollar per vote than Jeb!
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Nov 13, 2016 18:49
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Mr. Jive posted:Yeah sorry, I guess I am kind of flipping my lid. It's just that all this talk about figuring out how to get our hands on that sweet sweet DNC schmoozing machinery smells a lot like the Clintonite strategy of co-opting the system, which failed in a spectacular way. It's uncertain times for sure, I understand. I sure as hell don't want to see the same pattern doomed to be repeated. I feel like Clinton coopted like a minority just for the sake of appeasement, so it was really platitudes, because Clintonites were still in control of the apparatus. I'd like to be more positive that the progressives have a much stronger shot nowadays because you know... They're not living in a bubble and probably actually reach out to their constituents regardless of party affiliation due to social status. Poverty is poverty. Something Clinton definitely handwaved for social issues, (which are legitimate, but this election clearly showed that people voted in their self interest over the economic issues, if only there was some way to solve both at once!) I mean, Harry Reid and Schumer are endorsing Ellison, its a very good sign. I'm like really positive people will loving draw blood and go ripshit pissed if Ellison isn't chair. Definitely make your voice heard for his case too. Lastgirl has issued a correction as of 18:53 on Nov 13, 2016 |
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Nov 13, 2016 18:51
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Venom Snake posted:well, they failed on step one of actually controlling the system I don't think so. They put Obama in office twice. They outspent Trump two to one. They maneuvered their chosen primary candidate into position. The machine was doing everything it was supposed to do. I don't see how putting a progressive at the head of that machine is going to fix anything.
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Nov 13, 2016 18:55
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Late counting votes in Arizona drop Trump's margin there to 3.9% (Trump 49.3, Clinton 45.2, Other 5.3). Arizona is now as close as North Carolina (3.8% Trump margin) and is a definite swing state for the future.
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Nov 13, 2016 18:58
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Mr. Jive posted:I don't think so. They put Obama in office twice. They outspent Trump two to one. They maneuvered their chosen primary candidate into position. The machine was doing everything it was supposed to do. they lost since the messaging was out of touch with the country's zeitgeist and the carefully crafting artificial image failed. Hillary lost, Trump won.
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Nov 13, 2016 19:00
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Mr. Jive posted:Uh, like Trump's political connections and political capital? He was a figure in the right wing media, and a frequent donor. And yeah, rinse pubes was up to bat for him since the start.
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Nov 13, 2016 19:02
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so here's something I didn't expect: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_House_of_Representatives_elections,_2016 republicans got 4m more votes than democrats downballot that is interesting
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Nov 13, 2016 19:03
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Mr. Jive posted:Uh, like Trump's political connections and political capital? The entirety of Trump's ground game was actually the GOP's. They had a ground game, but it wasn't run by the candidate himself. I think part of the problem is the Democrats have problem with ground game is the over-reliance of the presidential nominee's GOTV and don't have a solid one in midterms. I could be wrong here. That, and as soon as Trump got the nomination, the entire GOPe for the most part went behind him.
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Nov 13, 2016 19:07
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iospace posted:The entirety of Trump's ground game was actually the GOP's. They had a ground game, but it wasn't run by the candidate himself. https://twitter.com/mitchellvii/status/795443493674086400 ground game doesn't matter if nobody likes the candidate
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Nov 13, 2016 19:14
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Peel posted:theory: lena dunham, or whichever celebrity you dislike who endorsed clinton, had a neglibile effect on the election or a slightly positive effect among a demographic you aren't part of, while nobody else cared, and is a topic somehow even more pointless than relitigating the primary I wasn't familiar with who she was or that she was a HRC surrogate until after the election but I think she's a good short hand example of some of their campaign's backwards priorities and attitudes. They invested in surrogates that only appeal to rich white women and that people outside that group view as a basket of insufferables.
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Nov 13, 2016 19:15
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Fuschia tude posted:Wait who is Venom Snake? Why does he matter? GET REVENGE FOR DEMOCRAT DOGS
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Nov 13, 2016 19:16
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trump is even less popular than clinton, he's a widely despised man. but the republican vote just seems more stable in general and turning out more people is always useful
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Nov 13, 2016 19:16
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