|
steinrokkan posted:Isn't running on image alone what we've been criticizing Trump for? What is needed is a convinced minority activist, with a touch for general administration. Without it, the Democrats will lose all their credibility AGAIN. I mean we've criticized it but I thought it was broadly agreed that style and charisma clearly matter more than substance. I'm not arguing we don't need substance, but we need somebody who can bullshit their way around platforms and debates. That doesn't mean when they get in office they don't enact the platform. That was the part missing from Obama. There never should've been "Campaign Obama/President Obama." Judakel posted:I did miss that part. My apologies. I will seize on this moment to point out how stupid it is to think we have to worry about minorities not turning out for democrats based on image rather than substance. Thank you for this opportunity. I mean if you had the history minorities in the United States do with getting hung out to dry by white progressives, you'd be wary as gently caress too. MLK didn't write about this poo poo because he thought it was an isolated incident.
|
#
?
Nov 14, 2016 00:21
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 6, 2024 03:17 |
|
|
Is there a winning electoral college map that "sit down white men" will achieve that I don't know about? Could somebody post it? Because maybe I'm mistaken but I thought this election was won and lost in a handful of traditionally Blue states that we need to win back in 4 years.
|
|
#
?
Nov 14, 2016 00:22
|
|
|
Lightning Knight posted:rip career...? What happened to him? He violated the Hatch Act. Yes, that one.
|
|
#
?
Nov 14, 2016 00:23
|
|
|
Lightning Knight posted:Accuses me of not being enough of an adult, is offended because I swore at a generic you that you've decided meant personally you and only you. Good job bro. I'm not offended. I think it's the wrong approach and it's not good for the party. I also think you wrote it because it made you feel like hot poo poo, but all it did was (apparently) confuse your mesage. If you deleted that paragraph and replaced it with the position that you've since backpedaled too, then your little manifesto would be better for the change. quote:Bernie won't be the right guy for the job in four years because he's going to be hella old as gently caress. I'd be amazed if he wants to go through this poo poo again. If you think my point was that Bernie Sanders should run again, then you missed it. The point is that his decision on whether or not to run and our decision on whether or not to support him shouldn't be based upon his skin color.
|
|
#
?
Nov 14, 2016 00:23
|
|
|
The hatch act, which surprisingly meant gently caress all this election.
|
|
#
?
Nov 14, 2016 00:24
|
|
|
https://medium.com/soapbox-dc/democrats-are-about-to-plunge-into-a-civil-war-e2ac6f65eb48#.o9809irrm So, if this thread is any indication, I guess what this article is talking about is already happening.
|
|
#
?
Nov 14, 2016 00:24
|
|
|
Lightning Knight posted:I mean we've criticized it but I thought it was broadly agreed that style and charisma clearly matter more than substance. I'm not arguing we don't need substance, but we need somebody who can bullshit their way around platforms and debates. That doesn't mean when they get in office they don't enact the platform. That was the part missing from Obama. There never should've been "Campaign Obama/President Obama." IMO style and charisma matter for disseminating substance, not as a replacement for substance. If you want to have a more-than-one-term career, that is. Hopefully Trump's weakness is that since he wasn't ready for even a single term, his bluster won't work the second time. Unless he is smarter than he looks, which he probably is 
|
|
#
?
Nov 14, 2016 00:25
|
|
|
At some point we will have to come to grips with the reality that we are automating, outsourcing and making redundant jobs at a rate faster than we can create them and having a social structure where the quality of your full time job is a direct indicator of your societal worth is no longer a sustainable system. I suppose that as long as there are poor brown people around the world, then there is a hope of maintaining our western standard of living, but it can't go on forever. Perhaps that is a problem for our grandchildren to solve.
|
|
#
?
Nov 14, 2016 00:26
|
|
|
Clip-On Fedora posted:https://medium.com/soapbox-dc/democrats-are-about-to-plunge-into-a-civil-war-e2ac6f65eb48#.o9809irrm republicans just did a civil war and won the presidency and both houses of congress this is excellent news!!! for democrats!!!
|
|
#
?
Nov 14, 2016 00:26
|
|
|
There is no electoral map to victory with telling white people to sit down and shut up.Lightning Knight posted:5. White straight male progressives are not the future of our movement. Yes, that means Bernie should not run again. White straight male progressives need to learn to sit down and shut the gently caress up some of the time, and to listen to minority voices. POC, LGBT, and female candidates are our future and we need to pave the way for them, not throw tantrums when we don't get to run the show. And for that guy reaching for his keyboard to say "
|
|
#
?
Nov 14, 2016 00:26
|
|
why do you hate white straight men???" shut the gently caress up. Don't even. White straight men already get to be the center of the universe every other place. If you even want to pretend to be progressive don't you start that poo poo here.
|
https://twitter.com/mattyglesias/status/797926372429754368
|
|
#
?
Nov 14, 2016 00:26
|
|
|
Internet Kraken posted:Trump isn't going to enact any legislature that keeps him from making more money.
|
|
#
?
Nov 14, 2016 00:27
|
|
|
Mahoning posted:Is there a winning electoral college map that "sit down white men" will achieve that I don't know about? Could somebody post it? Winning those states back gets us the Presidency. We still need the Senate, House, and state governments, and for that we need more minority turnout as well as more working class whites. We could totally do better with Hispanic and Asian voters.  of loving course they threw the book at a Democrat. gently caress Republicans.Mr. Belding posted:I'm not offended. I think it's the wrong approach and it's not good for the party. I also think you wrote it because it made you feel like hot poo poo, but all it did was (apparently) confuse your mesage. If you deleted that paragraph and replaced it with the position that you've since backpedaled too, then your little manifesto would be better for the change. I think I wrote it in response to dialogue specifically in this thread, specifically because I wrote it for this thread. If you'd been reading the thread for the past few days, you'd understand why I had written it. Also in a larger sense in response to conversations that have happened across USPOL and other threads for months. It wasn't something I came up with in a vacuum, nor was it something intended for the wider party (worded as such). I also never said that if a candidate is bad but also a minority we should back them up anyway, necessarily. Cory Booker isn't the future of the party, at least for now. I do think we need to push for more minority voices and candidates that are good though.
|
|
#
?
Nov 14, 2016 00:27
|
|
|
Lightning Knight posted:I mean I comprehend this. I think more than anything the lesson of this election is "if your candidate is the best at bullshitting he will win." Obama was a master class bullshitter. If we run a minority candidate and they have the charisma and public speaking ability, they will win, assuming they also have a good record to run on or at least not a bad one to hobble them. What a simple solution. If we just have another first black POTUS lying around we can run that guy. Seriously. Proposed on these very forums. The solution to all of the democratic party's election woes: "Just find another Obama. How hard can it be?"
|
|
#
?
Nov 14, 2016 00:28
|
|
|
Clip-On Fedora posted:https://medium.com/soapbox-dc/democrats-are-about-to-plunge-into-a-civil-war-e2ac6f65eb48#.o9809irrm Good. Hope they flush out every establishment dem.
|
|
#
?
Nov 14, 2016 00:28
|
|
|
This is all so perfect.
|
|
#
?
Nov 14, 2016 00:30
|
|
|
Clip-On Fedora posted:https://medium.com/soapbox-dc/democrats-are-about-to-plunge-into-a-civil-war-e2ac6f65eb48#.o9809irrm I think it's unfairly characterizing bernie supporters by having them say "gently caress minorities" it's just that they're also saying "hey we should focus on economic populism and class issues as well guys"
|
|
#
?
Nov 14, 2016 00:31
|
|
|
Clip-On Fedora posted:https://medium.com/soapbox-dc/democrats-are-about-to-plunge-into-a-civil-war-e2ac6f65eb48#.o9809irrm Who is this loving moron.
|
|
#
?
Nov 14, 2016 00:31
|
|
|
Mahoning posted:Is there a winning electoral college map that "sit down white men" will achieve that I don't know about? Could somebody post it? Winning white men doesn't mean running a white man as a candidate.
|
|
#
?
Nov 14, 2016 00:31
|
|
|
https://twitter.com/Garfield/status/726075242926342144
|
|
#
?
Nov 14, 2016 00:31
|
|
|
Mr. Belding posted:What a simple solution. If we just have another first black POTUS lying around we can run that guy. I didn't say we'd find a second Obama. But I suspect there are minority candidates out there who could win the election and hold their own. Obama shouldn't be our benchmark because he's an unparalleled campaigner. He's just also proof that running minority candidates for President isn't an automatic death sentence if we commit to a strong message and enact it once in office.
|
|
#
?
Nov 14, 2016 00:32
|
|
|
Clip-On Fedora posted:https://medium.com/soapbox-dc/democrats-are-about-to-plunge-into-a-civil-war-e2ac6f65eb48#.o9809irrm Holy poo poo you can just feel the contempt dripping from the word "leftists". Centrist democrats are the loving worst.
|
|
#
?
Nov 14, 2016 00:33
|
|
|
SpiderHyphenMan posted:There is no electoral map to victory with telling white people to sit down and shut up. I think the point is, even if we follow that little bullet point in Baby's First Manifesto (one which I largely agree with, even as a straight white male), it does little to nothing to address why this election was lost and how to win in 2020.
|
|
#
?
Nov 14, 2016 00:33
|
|
|
Covok posted:Anyone want to talk about Bannon, a literal anti-semmite, being announced as Chief Strategist and Senior Counselor? This frightens me most of all. Seeing this all go down and who's sitting on the seats of power makes me think we're in a modern day "germany in the 30s" scenario and it's time to flee for my life. I've spent the week oscillating with trying to figure out what to do next vs. feeling as if I may be in mortal danger of remaining in this country.
|
|
#
?
Nov 14, 2016 00:33
|
|
|
fknlo posted:This is all so perfect. So a former Golden Sachs Banker that has heaped praise on FN, UKIP and AfD (the FN/AfD at least have direct links to Putin)? Sounds like this is going to work out great. Seriously, I think we are in for an even rougher ride than people expect. Bannon is about as alt-right as you can get, and it sounds like he is going to be Trump's right hand man. Ardennes fucked around with this message at 00:36 on Nov 14, 2016 |
|
#
?
Nov 14, 2016 00:34
|
|
|
Not really understanding the viewpoint "we should do more of the same, but harder!!!." Sounds like a winning strategy, if anything.
|
|
#
?
Nov 14, 2016 00:34
|
|
|
Clip-On Fedora posted:https://medium.com/soapbox-dc/democrats-are-about-to-plunge-into-a-civil-war-e2ac6f65eb48#.o9809irrm this article is garbage
|
|
#
?
Nov 14, 2016 00:34
|
|
|
So now that an unrepentant Anti-Semite is in the white house, I wonder if that will actually cause ripples now that the most influential minority in america are under threat, and not just the powerless ones.
|
|
#
?
Nov 14, 2016 00:34
|
|
|
Lightning Knight posted:
They didn't, though? He was neither fined nor even formally reprimanded, the Obama administration basically went "it was an honest mistake and he won't make it again, right, Secretary Castro?"
|
|
#
?
Nov 14, 2016 00:34
|
|
|
Garfield is the product of dying synapses discharging their final load to comfort a terminally starved cat's mind that is past the point of reviving. Appropriate for the left?
|
|
#
?
Nov 14, 2016 00:34
|
|
|
Monaghan posted:I think it's unfairly characterizing bernie supporters by having them say "gently caress minorities" it's just that they're also saying "hey we should focus on economic populism and class issues as well guys" Nah they're racists, gently caress em 
|
|
#
?
Nov 14, 2016 00:34
|
|
|
Mahoning posted:I think the point is, even if we follow that little bullet point in Baby's First Manifesto (one which I largely agree with, even as a straight white male), it does little to nothing to address why this election was lost and how to win in 2020. I mean it's not like that's the only thing I wrote in that big dumb post, much as the thread seems to have decided otherwise. Edit: Like, tl;dr: white progressives need to work with minorities and fight for them. We need working class whites. Progressives and conservatives need to compromise but progressives must lead and fight for leadership. Minorities need to run for office and take up the standard.
|
|
#
?
Nov 14, 2016 00:34
|
|
|
Let's strategize on ways to get the minority vote even as the Republican party becomes the white nationalist party.
|
|
#
?
Nov 14, 2016 00:36
|
|
|
Lightning Knight posted:I mean it's not like that's the only thing I wrote in that big dumb post, much as the thread seems to have decided otherwise. You just mentioned that you wanted a bullshitter as the candidate of the left.
|
|
#
?
Nov 14, 2016 00:37
|
|
|
Judakel posted:Let's strategize on ways to get the minority vote even as the Republican party becomes the white nationalist party. White working class voters don't vote for us yet. In the meantime the Republicans are aggressively enacting voter suppression. We need to fix both of these problems. If you think one of them is undeserving you're going to keep losing elections. Judakel posted:You just mentioned that you wanted a bullshitter as the candidate of the left. I said I want a bullshitter who will enact the platform when they win. They don't have to lie, but they can't go for Hillary's schoolteacher act. Regular people don't like listening to policy dumps. They want to feel special because they heard a cool speech.
|
|
#
?
Nov 14, 2016 00:38
|
|
|
The biggest establishment Dems are rallying around Bernie's hand-picked choice to lead the party. Sounds like a civil war to me!
|
|
#
?
Nov 14, 2016 00:40
|
|
|
Lightning Knight posted:I mean it's not like that's the only thing I wrote in that big dumb post, much as the thread seems to have decided otherwise. Agreed with this. Progressives and the working class (of all races) need more influence and the party needs to do a better job messaging to them. A good start would be finding a standard bearer that can straddle the divide. The medium is the message, after all.
|
|
#
?
Nov 14, 2016 00:40
|
|
|
Lightning Knight posted:White working class voters don't vote for us yet. In the meantime the Republicans are aggressively enacting voter suppression. We need to fix both of these problems. If you think one of them is undeserving you're going to keep losing elections. People won't ever vote for anything that doesn't promise an economic growth for them, in large enough quantities to win a general elction. Anyway, buy an avatar, people.
|
|
#
?
Nov 14, 2016 00:41
|
|
|
GreyjoyBastard posted:They didn't, though? He was neither fined nor even formally reprimanded, the Obama administration basically went "it was an honest mistake and he won't make it again, right, Secretary Castro?" I mean they didn't even bring it up against Comey. That article on the "Democratic civil war" is jumping the gun a bit, we haven't had a major battle yet. I suspect, if there is to be a fight over such things, it'll be in the 2020 primary. I think we should brace ourselves to almost certainly be up against Cory Booker representing the conservative wing.
|
|
#
?
Nov 14, 2016 00:41
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 6, 2024 03:17 |
|
|
Lightning Knight posted:I didn't say we'd find a second Obama. But I suspect there are minority candidates out there who could win the election and hold their own. You'd be wrong. That's sort of the point of entrenched racism in politics, minorities are underrepresented in positions of power. That gives you a much smaller pool to draw on in the first place. Consider the sheer number of personal flaws that can sink a candidate, and it's almost impossible to find a good one period. Look at the Republicans this year. They effectively didn't have a single good candidate. The Democrats had Hillary and Bernie. That is to say, the most hated Democrat in modern history and someone who isn't even really a Democrat. Combine the problems with finding a good candidate with the smaller pool of minority politicians, AND the fact they have to fight against racism to be taken seriously? You basically *do* need a second Obama.
|
|
#
?
Nov 14, 2016 00:42
|
|
