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Who is the man?? This poll is closed. |
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| Goku |
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202 | 7.09% |
| Vegeta |
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279 | 9.79% |
| Krillin |
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208 | 7.30% |
| Piccolo or his nameks |
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212 | 7.44% |
| Gohan or Cool Gohan |
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135 | 4.74% |
| Yamcha |
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90 | 3.16% |
| Tien |
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120 | 4.21% |
| Muten Roshi |
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89 | 3.12% |
| Tao Pai Pai |
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71 | 2.49% |
| Frieza |
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69 | 2.42% |
| Cell or an android |
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86 | 3.02% |
| Buu |
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62 | 2.18% |
| Hercule "Mark" Satan |
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327 | 11.48% |
| Videl |
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90 | 3.16% |
| Bulma |
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104 | 3.65% |
| Yajirobe |
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99 | 3.47% |
| Ginyu or other Frieza squad guy |
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68 | 2.39% |
| King kai or another kai |
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53 | 1.86% |
| Chi-Chi |
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83 | 2.91% |
| Goten |
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43 | 1.51% |
| Trunks or Cool Trunks |
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112 | 3.93% |
| Bardock |
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48 | 1.68% |
| Other villain of DB,Z, or GT(please post about it!) |
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41 | 1.44% |
| Uub |
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42 | 1.47% |
| Oolong |
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90 | 3.16% |
| Zamasu |
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26 | 0.91% |
| Total: | 1326 votes | ||
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I think saying a power up has a time limit and then going "oh wait, you're so powerful that you actually have even LESS time to use it!" is pretty lame. I didn't like it when they did it in the Buu arc either. We're probably never going to see Vegito ever again anyways, so whatever. Trunks getting the kill with a Spirit Bomb Sword thing is pretty awesome though. That kid's got a really impressive kill list now.
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Nov 14, 2016 07:52
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They didn't do it in the Buu saga, that only happened in GT, I think.
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Nov 14, 2016 07:55
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CharlestheHammer posted:They didn't do it in the Buu saga, that only happened in GT, I think. SS3 Gotenks could only last 5 minutes instead of 30. Sure it's a different kind of fusion, but the idea is still "the stronger you are, the less time you have" which makes it basically pointless at a certain point.
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Nov 14, 2016 07:59
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Rhonne posted:SS3 Gotenks could only last 5 minutes instead of 30. This is legit something that Beerus kinda pointed out about rising SSJ forms. The higher you push the form, the more it wears the user down. gently caress, it worked exactly the same for Kaioken. Higher forms put a strain on the user. SSB seems to be just doing SSJ with god ki, so it's not as draining, but popping a Kaioken onto it will wreck the gently caress out of the user. Super Trunks is just so powered by justice and mortals that he has enough power to spare.
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Nov 14, 2016 08:19
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Way i see it, its not the strain of power up what limits fusion time, its the power itself. Like a ningen is a computer but a fusion is an unplugged laptop with high end specs, it may be running ssb.exe extremely smoothly but the high performance mode being used will drain the battery in minutes. I love the time limit if only because Vegitto is off the table as an option to beat Beerus. If Goku and Vegeta wanna beat him they need to actually work together.
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Nov 14, 2016 08:56
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Speak for yourselves, I want to see Toriyama's cat have outrageous reactions to everything Dragon Ball.
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Nov 14, 2016 09:32
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The youtube comments are good if you imagine they're all Zamasu on godtube. "Lousy writers won't even let me say "ningen" on tv because it offends SJW's (saiya-jin warriors)" 
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Nov 14, 2016 10:27
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Elfgames posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ECf6JGnrVJw lol this is some major butthurt WHY WAS THE GUY THAT THIS ARC INFLUENCED MORE THAN ANY OTHER CHARACTER THE ONE TO FINISH OFF THE VILLAIN? WHY?!?!?! I know intentionally misunderstanding things is a rule for being a youtube reviewer but christ, this is story telling in its most basic form.
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Nov 14, 2016 13:50
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Nov 14, 2016 13:52
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They should have done a throwaway gag of Black finding a new group of humans hiding out in the mountains defended by Eighter, then slinking home with a big Eighter fist sized bruise on the side of his face.
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Nov 14, 2016 14:20
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Ryaomon posted:"Lousy writers won't even let me say "ningen" on tv because it offends SJW's (saiya-jin warriors)" things like this and the "ningenstomper58" line really make me laugh
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Nov 14, 2016 14:20
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Ryaomon posted:"Lousy writers won't even let me say "ningen" on tv because it offends SJW's (saiya-jin warriors)"
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Nov 14, 2016 14:49
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tbp posted:Vegeta is def stronger than goku at the moment I reckon Vegeta and Trunks together firing off Galick Guns barely stopped a death ball, and Zamasu wasn't damaged by it when they finally beat it back. Goku beat one on his own and doing so revealed Zamasu's weakness. Goku comes off the stronger to me.
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Nov 14, 2016 15:42
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tsob posted:Vegeta and Trunks together firing off Galick Guns barely stopped a death ball, and Zamasu wasn't damaged by it when they finally beat it back. Goku beat one on his own and doing so revealed Zamasu's weakness. Goku comes off the stronger to me. The double galick gun must have weakened him.
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Nov 14, 2016 15:52
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Vegeta completely overpowered Black Goku because he had trained in the hyperbolic time chamber, something Goku did not do and he's established as weaker than Vegeta at this moment, even if they are both weaker than Zanmasux2.
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Nov 14, 2016 16:03
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Bulma is the strongest because she puts the boys in their place by simply yelling at them: Elfgames posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ECf6JGnrVJw lol this is some major butthurt Jedah fucked around with this message at 16:27 on Nov 14, 2016 |
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Nov 14, 2016 16:03
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The only thing disappointing about Vegito showing up is that they didn't change his outfit. This arc has been great and DB Super is also great.
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Nov 14, 2016 16:10
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Funky Valentine posted:Vegito being able to de-fuse with the Dragon Balls is a hilarious kick to the nuts to that Multiverse plot point.
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Nov 14, 2016 16:28
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I realize arguing Dragon Ball On The Internet. Just sayin':ImpAtom posted:Vegeto got defused the first time he showed up. Vegeto being permanently fused was never, ever, ever a risk. They have Majin Buu back home and the Dragonballs which have already canonically been shown to defuse people fused by the earrings. If it was a 'coold thing from the canon' that was ruined then it was ruined back literally when it first appeared when he was defused by magic gas inside Majin Buu. The fusion was still clearly permanent, asterisk- barring the summoning of Shenron which is kind of a big deal, or Majin Buu who is dead. So the only way to dissolve it now, is Dragon Balls. Any situation that can only be fixed by Dragon Balls is by definition a big deal. But now the fusion is non-permanent, and it's alllwwaaays the end of the world. Imagine if the non-permanent fusion had been an option during the Beerus arc, when Beerus slaps Bulma and Vegeta can't beat him- gently caress it, fuse and obliterate that motherfucker. Why didn't the kais tell them about this etc etc. There's a valid reason to say that Vegito was more special before now and that's been stepped on. Skinty McEdger posted:Goku and Vegeta tried, they failed. Trunks did it by his own drat self and saved the day. Toriyama is the one who's all transformations give you bazillions of times the power, and now he's showing SSJ2 pulling even with an enemy that endured SSJ Blue Kaioken and Blue Vegito? Even if you want to say oh but genkidama, Goku had to do the super spirit bomb against Kid Buu that included "Earth, Other World, New Namek and the rest of the surviving planets of the sector" ... so Kid Buu was stronger than Zamas2? I know Toriyama is going to mumble in an interview that Zamas2 was losing power when he got all gooey or whatever, but come on. If you're going to allow non-permanent fusion and say they have to use a fusion or else it ruins Trunks moment then you might as well go full retard- the finisher should have been Trunks and Vegeta fusing, and creating a sword made out of the bond between a father and son. Vegetrunks, clearly the answer. (edit: Trunks' SSJ transformation clearly warrants its own discussion thanks to his weird new powerup but edited to say it's SSJ2) revdrkevind fucked around with this message at 16:30 on Nov 14, 2016 |
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Nov 14, 2016 16:28
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ME
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Nov 14, 2016 16:37
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revdrkevind posted:Majin Buu who is dead. He is crashing on Mr. Satan's couch. revdrkevind posted:when Beerus slaps Bulma and Vegeta can't beat him- gently caress it, fuse and obliterate that motherfucker. There is absolutely no indication that pre-god Vegeto would have had any significant success against Beerus? You can make arguments about SSB Vegeto but that is why the time limit is a good thing. It means Goku and Vegeta's solution to the "how to beat Beerus" issue isn't just a fusion. revdrkevind posted:Any situation that can only be fixed by Dragon Balls is by definition a big deal. This hasn't really been true since Dende took over and they have access to his easy-mode Dragonballs. Collecting them and getting a wish is literally a thing the Dragonball cast does for fun now, remember? ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 16:43 on Nov 14, 2016 |
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Nov 14, 2016 16:37
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It's not like Goku would understand what you're doing.
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Nov 14, 2016 16:38
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Raxivace posted:It's not like Goku would understand what you're doing. Goku Black knows what they're doing. 
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Nov 14, 2016 16:43
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I would say using the Dragonballs to undo something pretty much makes them a non-issue going forward. They invalidated death decades ago, so they might as well do the same with fusion. Also Trunks was definitely using god power. In fact, they showed him to be stronger than both Goku and Vegeta when that first transformation was shown, since he took on both Black and Zamasu when they had to leave.
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Nov 14, 2016 16:57
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I can;t believe I'm saying this about a Dragon Ball anime, but I really think the pacing of this episode was too fast. I think it would have really benefited both the Vegetto scene and Trunks the Hero of Hope scene by expanding them to at least 1.5 episodes instead of squeezing all into 1 here.
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Nov 14, 2016 16:59
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Trunks getting his god ki from the people is a really cool detail. I still hold that the rage of SSJ2 overpowers the godly aura and thus that's why his hair is yellow. but he's using god ki all the way through
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Nov 14, 2016 17:02
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For how important Super Saiyan transformations and their difference in power level are shown to be to the plot, the writers sure do a poor job of keeping them consistent or explaining anything about them. Like what's even the point of Goku and Vegeta doing a complicated ritual and training with Whis to reach Super Saiyan Blue, if someone can reach sort of the same level by just being SSJ2 and getting REALLY mad? Where does that leave SSJ3 then? What the hell is even up with Super Saiyan God (red haired form)? Or Rose for that matter? 'I don't even understand what my own powers do anymore lol' is pretty cool, but part of the fun of Dragonball Z was the Saiyans discovering the broken undelying mechanics of their powers and exploiting the hell out of them. That doesn't seem to be the case anymore. This is a minor complaint, though: that episode was perfect and a great conclusion to F.Trunks' arc. Super is in fact cool and good, and afaic succeeds at the very demanding job of being a 'real' Dragonball sequel. Spidder fucked around with this message at 17:28 on Nov 14, 2016 |
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Nov 14, 2016 17:21
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Spidder posted:For how important Super Saiyan transformations and their difference in power level are shown to be to the plot, the writers sure do a poor job of keeping them consistent. Like what's even the point of Goku and Vegeta doing a complicated ritual and training with Whis to reach Super Saiyan Blue, if someone can reach sort of the same level by just being SSJ2 and getting REALLY mad? Where does that leave SSJ3 then? What the hell is even up with Super Saiyan God (red haired form)? Or Rose for that matter? The idea behind Super Saiyan God does not appear to be that it allows you to obtain an unobtainable level of power but that it allows you to access God Ki which is a significant power boost with little to nothing in the way of downsides. The overall theme of Dragonball Super is "even mortals can challenge gods" and every arc has been about that. Rather than it putting Goku and Vegeta on a new level it merely puts them on a different power track which gives them new options.
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Nov 14, 2016 17:29
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Spidder posted:For how important Super Saiyan transformations and their difference in power level are shown to be to the plot, the writers sure do a poor job of keeping them consistent. Like what's even the point of Goku and Vegeta doing a complicated ritual and training with Whis to reach Super Saiyan Blue, if someone can reach sort of the same level by just being SSJ2 and getting REALLY mad? Where does that leave SSJ3 then? What the hell is even up with Super Saiyan God (red haired form)? Or Rose for that matter? At this point the smartest thing to say would be that SSJ God, the form Goku took in the movie, is more powerful than drat near anything else we've seen- especially Blooper Saiyan, which is why Goku was so close to Beerus in power there, but supposedly not now. It's just a limited time only thing that can only be achieved by ritual Otherwise everything is just up for grabs. SSJ2 is, in fact, the perfect transformation, the Ascended state, that everyone ignored because Goku found SSJ3 and thought it was the hot poo poo and hosed up royal. Trunks, never learning about SSJ3 and knowing better from his Ultra Saiyan bullshit, stuck with SSJ2 like his dad should have and achieved the full breadth of its power. Meanwhile SSJ4 is now the technique used by time traveling villains because it is from the worst timeline
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Nov 14, 2016 17:32
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Super Saiyan 2 was useful in a single fight against Cell and then became such a non-issue that everyone had it. Super Saiyan 3 never won a single fight, and the finale was beaten by base level Vegeta and Super Saiyan Goku. Goku was God level, but then dropped to normal Super Saiyan when fighting Beerus and still was able to hurt him. These transformations have never been particularly consistent.
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Nov 14, 2016 17:37
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The new episode was super loving awesome. I wish they didn't chop Vegito's balls off, but I guess he couldn't reign supreme forever.
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Nov 14, 2016 17:37
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ImpAtom posted:He is crashing on Mr. Satan's couch. Fat Buu isn't quite the same as Kid Buu which Vegeta even notes when discussing picking Buu for the tournament bla bla. The Buu we have now is retarded so they probably wouldn't risk it. The point is Beerus was blowing up Earth so why wouldn't they use whatever means available (if the fusion was non-permanent especially- and on the assumption that people whine when fusion doesn't get used when it could be). And making the Dragonballs too easy is its own plot issue since they could just wish any problem away, but if we're allowing the dragonballs to be a plot element at all, then if they were the only way to separate a fusion that would still be a big deal in show logic. Like three episodes later they go oh yeah dragonballs durp. And that's as serious as a plot ever gets in Dragonball. Unless we're allowing that even death doesn't matter at all anymore, in which case the entire series doesn't make a bit of difference(tm). You have to make some allowance for plot for the series to work at all. Burkion posted:At this point the smartest thing to say would be that SSJ God, the form Goku took in the movie, is more powerful than drat near anything else we've seen- especially Blooper Saiyan, which is why Goku was so close to Beerus in power there, but supposedly not now. Or this. But it does kind of dump all over Toriyama's love of transformation powerups. SSJ3 had a very specific set of drawbacks that made its non-use kind of make sense plotwise, you could see how the characters would remain in 2 rather than risk using up all their energy too fast. But having 2 beat Blue? Oh come on. Unless Toriyama comes out in an interview at some point and just flat-out admits he got tired of transformation powerups so he finally just decided Trunks only has one powerup and it's the best, and that's how it always should have been. I'm pretty okay with that.
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Nov 14, 2016 17:48
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revdrkevind posted:The point is Beerus was blowing up Earth so why wouldn't they use whatever means available Because that is not and has never been how Goku and Vegeta work? Vegeta had to be talking into fusing in this episode where they were literally fighting a killer mutating god beast who was moments away from wiping out all of them. Goku even admits after doing the God ritual that he's unhappy and unsatisfied with the outcome. Also like, Goku literally says that fusing with Vegeta wouldn't be enough to defeat Beerus in BotG so I'm not sure why this is even a debated thing. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 17:55 on Nov 14, 2016 |
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Nov 14, 2016 17:51
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revdrkevind posted:Unless we're allowing that even death doesn't matter at all anymore, in which case the entire series doesn't make a bit of difference(tm). You have to make some allowance for plot for the series to work at all. Krillin is completely unmoved by Trunks' death against Cell and tells Vegeta he's an idiot for getting mad because they can just revive him with the Dragon Balls. Piccolo tells Super Buu to go kill all of humanity to buy time for Gotenks because they can undo that with the Dragon Balls. Death has not mattered for a long while now, short of entire planet obliteration like Freeza caused...and even that just got undone by Whis. quote:Or this. But it does kind of dump all over Toriyama's love of transformation powerups. SSJ3 had a very specific set of drawbacks that made its non-use kind of make sense plotwise, you could see how the characters would remain in 2 rather than risk using up all their energy too fast. But having 2 beat Blue? Oh come on. What the gently caress are you on about? Trunks' Super Saiyan 2 is, at its best, equal to Goku's own Super Saiyan 2 while Goku was holding back. We saw this. The form Trunks uses against Black and Zamasu is very, VERY clearly not Super Saiyan 2, it doesn't even look similar. Much more golden hair, entirely different hairstyle, completely unique aura, buffing up (and then slimming back down)...if that looks like Super Saiyan 2 to you, I don't know what to tell you. It's a yet-unnamed new form, apparently unique to Trunks and equal to Super Saiyan Blue, like a non-Godly version of it. A Super Saiyan Ningen Super Saiyan (SSNSS for short, translated as SSMSS or SSHSS in the unofficial subtitles)
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Nov 14, 2016 18:04
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Apparently the current name for the form is just "Super Trunks"
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Nov 14, 2016 18:06
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Oh my god shut the gently caress up about power levels already
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Nov 14, 2016 18:11
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ImpAtom posted:Apparently the current name for the form is just "Super Trunks" That seems to just be from a summary of an episode though. "Super X" is used for a lot of things in Dragon Ball, and usually doesn't stick (or sticks far more than the more logical choices, does anyone remember that the buff Super Saiyans are called Second and Third Grade and not Super Vegeta and Super Trunks? Because games sure don't). I'd wait until Heroes or Xenoverse 2 add Super Trunks to see if that's the actual name of the form, although I guess it is the best we have right now, which is confusing since, again, Super Trunks is usually used for Super Saiyan Third Grade Trunks.
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Nov 14, 2016 18:15
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Wait, I was under the assumption that SSB was stronger than Super saiyan god all this time.
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Nov 14, 2016 18:16
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Blaze Dragon posted:That seems to just be from a summary of an episode though. "Super X" is used for a lot of things in Dragon Ball, and usually doesn't stick (or sticks far more than the more logical choices, does anyone remember that the buff Super Saiyans are called Second and Third Grade and not Super Vegeta and Super Trunks? Because games sure don't). I'd wait until Heroes or Xenoverse 2 add Super Trunks to see if that's the actual name of the form, although I guess it is the best we have right now, which is confusing since, again, Super Trunks is usually used for Super Saiyan Third Grade Trunks. To be fair if you believe Xenoverse then Future Gohan also had his own unique Super Saiyan Form Tae posted:Wait, I was under the assumption that SSB was stronger than Super saiyan god all this time. It is. The reason it's called Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan is because it's what happens when you go Super Saiyan in God form. Beerus was explicitly training Goku in both BoG and Super, not fighting SSG Goku at full power.
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Nov 14, 2016 18:16
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Whenever people start talking about power levels, I just think of this clip from Adbridged. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YY9g-0d7BK0
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Nov 14, 2016 18:31
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