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The solution to fixing logjam in the US constitutional universe is not doubling up on the imperial presidency, it's breaking the awful structure, rules, culture and compositional rigging of the legislature. The US presidency does not need more executive powers, it needs to be abolished or exist in a context of a functioning legislature and a depoliticised court.
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Nov 13, 2016 07:10
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I'm pretty woeful on anything not Canadian or American politics, how many countries directly elect the leader instead of it being the leader of the party with the most votes? It feels especially weird that individual politicians don't have to vote the party line.
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Nov 13, 2016 08:25
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DeusExMachinima posted:Heeeeyyyy libertarian thread, long time no see. Just wanted to drop in and let you all know I'm terrified what Trump's SCOTUS is gonna do re: stop & frisk, NSA spying, free speech, abortion, etc etc. I'll have to try to find a silver lining in the fact that they'll luuuuurve libertarian economic stances and that I will probably get to live long enough before the nuclear apocalypse to see them steamroll CA and NY's gun control bullshit in an NRA-funded lawsuit. Just remember, the national GOP platform has goldbugs' wet dream written right in!
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Nov 13, 2016 09:29
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I will NEVER get tired of minorities of any kind wishing for more direct democracy. How do people in this thread feel about the concept of a bicameral lgeislature? ND has 500,000 people, gets 2 votes in the Senate. Cali has 30M people, also gets 2 votes there.Who What Now posted:You just did. idgi? But it's good to see you're not even bothering to contest my central point.
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Nov 13, 2016 19:45
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This poster loves police brutality, but only when its against minorities!
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DeusExMachinima posted:idgi? But it's good to see you're not even bothering to contest my central point. I'll be happy to once you have a central point worth contesting.
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Nov 13, 2016 19:50
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Well OK, but what do you think I'm lying about? Here's a central point from the article: "Here’s a basic principle of good government: Don’t endorse a government power that you wouldn’t want wielded by your worst political enemy. Democrats will soon be learning that painful lesson." Do you feel the Dems followed that principle for the last 8 years or not?
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Nov 13, 2016 19:51
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DeusExMachinima posted:Well OK, but what do you think I'm lying about? They quoted your lie in their post.
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Nov 13, 2016 19:55
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So we should completely hamstring ourselves and never accomplish anything because the other side might also use the same means to accomplish things that they want when the government elects new people. That's completely asinine. And you're lying when you say you'll support minority rights.
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Nov 13, 2016 19:56
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Absolutely anything? You're definitely misreading the article. Expanding executive powers past what Bush had post-9/11? Probably a very bad idea in retrospect considering what Trump has said he wants to do. Thanks for letting me know the ACLU doesn't support minority rights though, I'll get that chargeback started stat.
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Nov 13, 2016 20:00
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Where did I say anything about the ACLU? I'm talking about you. A $5 donation does not make you a supporter of anything.
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Nov 13, 2016 20:04
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Ahaha ok so it's mostly because I'm on this side of Trotsky. Your salt along with many others who can't own up to their part in this clusterfuck is going to sustain me for the next 4-8 years.  In more interesting topics, since the electoral college has been such a hot item lately, how do you feel about bicameral legislatures such as the way the U.S. Senate is structured? Bougie tyranny or good check on the majority?
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Nov 13, 2016 20:11
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DeusExMachinima posted:Ahaha ok so it's mostly because I'm on this side of Trotsky. Your salt along with many others who can't own up to their part in this clusterfuck is going to sustain me for the next 4-8 years. Dumbass gloating like this is how I know you were lying.
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Nov 13, 2016 20:13
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DeusExMachinima posted:Ahaha ok so it's mostly because I'm on this side of Trotsky. Your salt along with many others who can't own up to their part in this clusterfuck is going to sustain me for the next 4-8 years. DeusExMachinima, are you a Libertarian? I fed JRodimus Prime, the chat bot mascot of this thread, the seed word "troll." Here's his response: JRodimus Prime: posted:Morally wrong under all circumstances. The same is true of the Austrian approach. I can safely say that murder is immoral. Thanks. Actually, and I cannot see how it can be morally justified in self defense, to defend my positions.
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Nov 13, 2016 20:45
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WrenP-Complete posted:If I absolutely have to make a replicant, what kind(s) would you prefer? A father that loves me  I'm joking I have a good dad.
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Nov 13, 2016 21:23
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What does the bot say if you use the Voight-Kampf turtle test text as your seed?
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Nov 13, 2016 21:51
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Anticheese posted:What does the bot say if you use the Voight-Kampf turtle test text as your seed? JRodimus Prime posted:Invest your own imagination. Enter into a collective. 
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Nov 13, 2016 22:34
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WrenP-Complete posted:DeusExMachinima, are you a Libertarian? He claims to be.
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Nov 13, 2016 22:38
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Avenging_Mikon posted:I'm pretty woeful on anything not Canadian or American politics, how many countries directly elect the leader instead of it being the leader of the party with the most votes? It feels especially weird that individual politicians don't have to vote the party line. Well, if the American political system bound politicians to the party line, both of our parties would fragment. They simply have too much disagreement within themselves to stay together in a system where party whips have that level of power. It would overpower the tendency the current FPTP system has to consolidate things to two parties nationally - though any given area would still probably have just two of the new splinter parties as the real choices. You can kinda see what this looks like in California and Louisiana's "jungle primary" systems which result in many general elections where you only vote between two Democrats or two Republicans. We'd likely see many districts turn into a vote between Radical Democrat and Democrat Classic parties, etc.
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Nov 14, 2016 00:32
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Caught back up after a while. Jrodbot is increasingly terrifying. Hadn't realized we had so many Jewpeople around. I curse the holidays with the fiery passion of a thousand suns. 
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Nov 14, 2016 01:40
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Who What Now posted:Dumbass gloating like this is how I know you were lying. Mmmm yes, in order mock the poo poo out of someone on the https://www.somethingawful.com forums I mustn't care about the people they're (unintentionally) going to play a role in hurting and furthermore-- WrenP-Complete posted:Morally wrong under all circumstances. The same is true of the Austrian approach. I can safely say that murder is immoral. Thanks. Actually, and I cannot see how it can be morally justified in self defense, to defend my positions. gently caress, the master has spoken.
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Nov 14, 2016 01:57
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You've clearly said you're going to be pleased with a Trump presidency, I don't know why you're trying to backpeddle from that.
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Nov 14, 2016 02:09
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Who What Now posted:You've clearly said you're going to be pleased with a Trump presidency, I don't know why you're trying to backpeddle from that. You've been exposed to fishmech's posting for too long. I can tell because you're ignoring any qualifications the other guy put on his initial statements and then automatically throwing out the backpedaling meme. But just so that I don't also end up solely posting about other posters in the Debate and Discussion subforum, let me reiterate an earlier question: how do you feel about the protests over the electoral college? If you oppose it for being undemocratic, how do you feel about the concept of the Senate?
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Nov 14, 2016 02:13
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DeusExMachinima posted:You've been exposed to fishmech's posting for too long. Nah, I just know you and people like you. You pay lip-service to supporting the rights of people not like you because you know you're supposed to. To signal that you are virtuous, if you will. But libertarians like you don't understand that it's better not to put people's rights in danger in the first place. I also don't believe your question is in good faith, but is instead a poorly disguised gotcha, and I'm literally too sick to deal with you ineptly trying to set that up.
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Nov 14, 2016 02:19
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DeusExMachinima posted:If you oppose it for being undemocratic, how do you feel about the concept of the Senate? Bruh, the Senate is intentionally undemocratic compared to the House. Especially in its original form, where the senators were elected byt he state legislatures, and state legislatures were free to be constructed in very undemocratic ways themselves. For instance, up til the mid-20th century when supreme court rulings on one man one vote happened, it was legal and common for a state to assign say one state legislator to every county, regardless of their sizes, in times where the smallest county might have under 10,000 people and the county with the largest city in the state had millions. Sometimes, they even assigned more representatives directly to near empty rural counties than to the larger urban ones, or intentionally split up empty rural counties into more.
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Nov 14, 2016 02:25
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Does anyone have any information on how much of the Libertarian vote would have otherwise gone for Trump or Hillary? I've been hearing some third party hate, but most of it's directed at Stein since people think that every Green Party vote would have otherwise went to Hillary. Most of the speculation about Johnson's supporters is that they would have otherwise voted Republican but since he got a lot more votes than Stein that seems even less likely than the idea that all Stein votes were stolen from Clinton.
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Nov 14, 2016 05:51
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I'd like to be the first to congratulate Wren on creating a chatbot smarter and more eloquent than the person they were originally based on.DeusExMachinima posted:how do you feel about the protests over the electoral college? If you oppose it for being undemocratic, how do you feel about the concept of the Senate? The Senate is undemocratic as all hell, as is the current cap on House Members. gently caress you specifically, Idaho.
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Nov 14, 2016 06:23
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White Coke posted:Does anyone have any information on how much of the Libertarian vote would have otherwise gone for Trump or Hillary? I've been hearing some third party hate, but most of it's directed at Stein since people think that every Green Party vote would have otherwise went to Hillary. Most of the speculation about Johnson's supporters is that they would have otherwise voted Republican but since he got a lot more votes than Stein that seems even less likely than the idea that all Stein votes were stolen from Clinton. Impossible to know, I think; and even if you gave Stein's voters all to Clinton, from what I recall she still loses. There's a reason to deride Johnson voters, but it's not for Trump winning. It's for them hitching to an absolutely inept party that has never once won anything above dog catcher. A lot of time, energy, and hope wasted on a candidacy and party that never has demonstrated the capacity for having a chance.
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Nov 14, 2016 08:37
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Liquid Communism posted:Just remember, the national GOP platform has goldbugs' wet dream written right in! God's tits and ovaries, don't remind me.
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Nov 14, 2016 08:38
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Golbez posted:Impossible to know, I think; and even if you gave Stein's voters all to Clinton, from what I recall she still loses. Yeah you can't really blame Clinton's on Stein, although she is worth deriding for a million other reasons
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Nov 14, 2016 09:20
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paragon1 posted:The Senate is undemocratic as all hell, as is the current cap on House Members. Even before you get to the Senate, your voting system itself is hosed up. First past the post and a lack of compulsory voting? That's poo poo. You end up with cases of Joe Blow winning with 35% of the vote because the opposition was split two or three ways. In other words, 65% -- a clear majority -- voted against Joe Blow and the horse he rode in on. Could well have been that the other two candidates were in clear opposition to him but similar enough in ideology that the people who voted for them would have been happy with one or the other. But Blow wins because FPTP sucks balls. Get yourself preferential voting so that you can have a real democratic election kthx
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Nov 14, 2016 09:47
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DeusExMachinima posted:If you oppose it for being undemocratic, how do you feel about the concept of the Senate? The whole concept of the Senate as an intentionally unrepresentative upper house is one of those ideas that sounded neat on paper in the 18th century but is horrible in practice today. In the UK we are laughing at the fact that the House of Lords, the most undemocratic institution in the Western world, is somehow keeping the government in check from doing crazy stuff like removing the requirement for local councils to provide any kind of support for victims of child abuse.
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Nov 14, 2016 11:07
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theshim posted:Caught back up after a while. Jrodbot is increasingly terrifying. Welcome back!!! You've been missed. DeusExMachinima posted:You've been exposed to fishmech's posting for too long. In my excitement about theshim's return, I must have missed your response to my question: Are you a Libertarian? We've discussed appointing a thread representative to organize our posts when there's a Libertarian in thread, so that we don't all jump on them at once. paragon1 posted:I'd like to be the first to congratulate Wren on creating a chatbot smarter and more eloquent than the person they were originally based on. DeusExMachinima posted:gently caress, the master has spoken. Thank you. He's still making some weird grammar errors with have- and does- constructions and there's something wrong with dependent clauses. I'll need to do something filter-y to allow him on Twitter without him going the way of poor Tay. He's still getting into arguments on Mises.org but I haven't seen JRodefeld OG. I've given him the "Alex" voice in Mac OS - Australian male. This seems to be the least grating. And I've got enough hardware, I think, to get him to roll around in response to motion and say things. This is his response to the seed "inflammatory rhetoric." JRodimus Prime posted:Not fit for civilized society based on any shallow ideological grounds. WrenP-Complete fucked around with this message at 14:48 on Nov 14, 2016 |
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Nov 14, 2016 14:20
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WrenP-Complete posted:Welcome back!!! You've been missed.  WrenP-Complete posted:Thank you. He's still making some weird grammar errors with have- and does- constructions and there's something wrong with dependent clauses. I'll need to do something filter-y to allow him on Twitter without him going the way of poor Tay.
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Nov 14, 2016 15:23
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theshim posted:Aww, thanks It'd be more upfront and honest than the majority of libertarians.
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Nov 14, 2016 15:30
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WrenP-Complete posted:"What could possibly go wrong" is probably the wrong question to ask, hmm... a steamin' hot one that's full of sass! anyway, I think the best shift in our constitution would be to respect any form of pluralism other than geographic. Back when the only people who could vote were land owning men, the only meaningful difference between voting interests where a majority can abuse a minority was literally their economic zone. The abuses of, say, ethnic minorities were regarded as ordained by God in Natural Law so of course the Constitution was not designed with anything else in mind. Stinky_Pete fucked around with this message at 15:36 on Nov 14, 2016 |
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Nov 14, 2016 15:33
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White Coke posted:Does anyone have any information on how much of the Libertarian vote would have otherwise gone for Trump or Hillary? I've been hearing some third party hate, but most of it's directed at Stein since people think that every Green Party vote would have otherwise went to Hillary. Most of the speculation about Johnson's supporters is that they would have otherwise voted Republican but since he got a lot more votes than Stein that seems even less likely than the idea that all Stein votes were stolen from Clinton. The thing about Stein voters is that if they just stayed home instead, Democrats wouldn't scold them, so think about the reward signals here, like at least they came out to vote on local stuff
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Nov 14, 2016 15:43
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WrenP-Complete posted:Welcome back!!! You've been missed. Fishmech has sort of a reputation for arguing useless semantic points by stripping away most of what the other person says as completely irrelevant to their very specific and needling definitions WrenP-Complete posted:I've given him the "Alex" voice in Mac OS - Australian male. This seems to be the least grating. And I've got enough hardware, I think, to get him to roll around in response to motion and say things.
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Nov 14, 2016 15:49
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quote:Are you a Libertarian? I would say yes, mostly. I say "mostly" not because I don't think any of my views aren't compatible with libertarianism per se, but some of them also aren't what most people associate with it/Ayn Rand either. So I just say "mostly" to avoid confusion. I'm in favor of reasonable environmental regulation (so, summary executions for anyone who ever legally opposed nuclear power), a negative income tax, and I think that there can be a fiscally conservative case made for Medicaid (although I believe its budget is as big as it is because we've created a permanently poor underclass of millions). TBH Wren I appreciate the offer to organize things. Just be aware that I don't post much in this thread lately and never really did. I mostly came back in here post-election to call the usual suspects idiots for spending the last 8 years mostly cheering on expansions of government power instead of rolling back what Bush did. You know what they say about double-edged swords.
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Nov 14, 2016 17:01
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DeusExMachinima posted:TBH Wren I appreciate the offer to organize things. Just be aware that I don't post much in this thread lately and never really did. I mostly came back in here post-election to call the usual suspects idiots for spending the last 8 years mostly cheering on expansions of government power instead of rolling back what Bush did. You know what they say about double-edged swords. So you came to argue against a non-existent strawman of a centrist democrat in a forum mainly populated by people on the left?
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Nov 14, 2016 19:27
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DeusExMachinima posted:(so, summary executions for anyone who ever legally opposed nuclear power) ah, the magic of compromise 
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Nov 14, 2016 20:15
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