SUK ZONE: it's all a pointless exercise and you're just screaming into the void

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > C-SPAM > SUK ZONE: it's all a pointless exercise and you're just screaming into the void

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ur in my world now: Jun 5, 2006; ^{Same as it ever was}
^{Same as it ever was}
^{Same as it ever was}
^{Same as it ever was}; Smellrose

Thoguh posted:

I don't understand how you can lose with guys like this by your side.

I legit hope their books get opened though. We need the Mitt Romney truth.

Guy looks like the director for anime villain outreach

# ? Nov 14, 2016 20:08

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# ? May 11, 2024 17:03

SHY NUDIST GRRL: Feb 15, 2011; Communism will help more white people than anyone else. Any equal measures unfairly provide less to minority populations just because there's less of them. Democracy is truly the tyranny of the mob.

ur in my world now posted:

"Poor whites are all stupid" just lost you the election, yet here you are.

Hey we want to fund education and fix that

# ? Nov 14, 2016 20:08

Marx Headroom: May 10, 2007; AT LAST! A show with nonono ~~commercials~~!; Fallen Rib

Majorian posted:

Winning control of all three branches of government, hopefully with the aim of increasing the social welfare of all citizens. (but right now I'm focusing on how to win)

I think we share the same goals but I'm becoming convinced that if you focus on the latter, the former will follow, whereas the party has been doing the exact opposite lately.

# ? Nov 14, 2016 20:09

Kithkar: Apr 23, 2011; I'm gonna RENOVATE your ass!

This is how these people work. I'm sorry you had to find this out in perhaps the literal most traumatic way a young staffer could, but the current establishment Dems literally believe that they need to emulate republicans to win, both in style and substance.

I'm only a bit older than you but Obama being so goddamn poo poo turned me off political work at your age, and now I'm figuring out a way to get back in now that it looks like we progressives have a shot again.

# ? Nov 14, 2016 20:09

Automata 10 Pack: Jun 21, 2007; Ten games published by Automata, on one cassette

Thoguh posted:

I don't understand how you can lose with guys like this by your side.

I legit hope their books get opened though. We need the Mitt Romney truth.

dude looks like david cross in a mr show sketch.

# ? Nov 14, 2016 20:10

reagan: Apr 29, 2008; by Lowtax

Majorian posted:

You realize it wasn't just the Clinton campaign saying this, right?

Like, the entire intelligence community agreed on something. That never happens. There was no scapegoating.

There was a concerted effort by Hillary Clinton and the intelligence agencies to try and convince people that the evil, scary Russians were planning on hacking the election. Was any of it true, though? After hearing several stories on the NBC nightly news hemming and hollering about how senior intelligence officials had told NBC about the threat, I began to doubt the whole thing. Why were these "senior officials" speaking to one of the largest news organizations in the country and openly threatening Russia like that? Fear mongering bullshit.

Can you blame people for being happy that the candidate who constantly fear mongered about our only real nuclear adversary is gone? Her husband pillaged Russia after the fall of the Soviet Union. She belongs in a museum.

# ? Nov 14, 2016 20:10

anime was right: Jun 27, 2008; death is certain
keep yr cool

reagan posted:

There was a concerted effort by Hillary Clinton and the intelligence agencies to try and convince people that the evil, scary Russians were planning on hacking the election. Was any of it true, though? After hearing several stories on the NBC nightly news hemming and hollering about how senior intelligence officials had told NBC about the threat, I began to doubt the whole thing. Why were these "senior officials" speaking to one of the largest news organizations in the country and openly threatening Russia like that? Fear mongering bullshit.

Can you blame people for being happy that the candidate who constantly fear mongered about our only real nuclear adversary is gone? Her husband pillaged Russia after the fall of the Soviet Union. She belongs in a museum.

they def influenced the election, but here's the thing:

only like 1/3 of the united states thinks russia is some evil terrible country. and many of them were voting for republicans anyway. most didn't care or had a positive view.

# ? Nov 14, 2016 20:12

ur in my world now: Jun 5, 2006; ^{Same as it ever was}
^{Same as it ever was}
^{Same as it ever was}
^{Same as it ever was}; Smellrose

SHY NUDIST GRRL posted:

Hey we want to fund education and fix that

I'm not down with calling them all stupid. Sure, Trump ain't gonna do a goddamn thing for them but the Dems absolutely shouldn't have lost an economic populism argument in the Rust Belt to a loving New York GOP billionaire and that is 100% their fault.

# ? Nov 14, 2016 20:15

Venom Snake: Feb 19, 2014; by Nyc_Tattoo

Zikan posted:

sanders also kind of had to throw his whole thing together from protest candidate who literally announced it in a random field in washington dc in front of a group of reporters and onlookers to the voice of american progressives and the left

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dOIirPta4h4

He's not the first person to have a movement fall into their lap.

# ? Nov 14, 2016 20:16

ate shit on live tv: Feb 15, 2004; by Azathoth

logikv9 posted:

y'all lusting for blood (which is understandable) but it's silly because all your supposed enemies literally bent the knee without you having to do anything. barring an act of god or keith ellison having a secret human trafficking operation in his basement, the progressives are going to own the DNC from the top down

this is the worst civil war i've ever seen. D+

Hey Remember when Hillary Clinton was a shoo-in for what was supposed to be a historic landslide of an election?

# ? Nov 14, 2016 20:20

loquacius: Oct 21, 2008

Ugh I had managed to forget that David Brock existed until just now, thanks a lot jerks

# ? Nov 14, 2016 20:21

SHY NUDIST GRRL: Feb 15, 2011; Communism will help more white people than anyone else. Any equal measures unfairly provide less to minority populations just because there's less of them. Democracy is truly the tyranny of the mob.

Nothing burger is an evil incantation invented by Brock and if you speak it you are hexed by neoliberalism

# ? Nov 14, 2016 20:23

bump_fn: Apr 12, 2004; _{two of them}

what about misty and ash

# ? Nov 14, 2016 20:23

jBrereton: May 30, 2013; Grimey Drawer

Majorian posted:

A no-fly zone probably wouldn't have led to outright war with Russia. The plan was to negotiate a no-fly zone with Russia's acquiescence and cooperation. If and when Russia refused to play ball, the plan likely would have fallen by the wayside. Either way, it almost certainly would not have led to an outright war with Russia. It might have caused a proxy war in the region, but that's hardly what you're claiming. The no-fly zone was a terrible idea, but it probably wouldn't have had the ramifications that you're claiming.

She was talking up a unilateral no fly zone over Aleppo in the debates. The Russians obviously were not going to back that, as they were involved in the air campaign over the city.

If you look at Clinton no-fly zones, they always eventually lead to troop deployments. Happened in Iraq and Yugoslavia under Bill, happened in Libya under her, why do you think Syria would be any different?

quote:

There has been very little "THE RUSSIANS" posturing from the Obama Administration, other than the fallout one would expect from our degrading relations with them. The Clinton camp highlighted Russia's hacking of DNC files was pretty valid, because the entire U.S. intelligence community agrees that that's what happened.

You're right that there has not been as much anti-Russian posturing from Obama. But Obama wasn't the candidate in the election, and he wasn't who I was talking about, it was Clinton, and by the end of the election, everything that went against her was blamed more or less solely on Moscow. And it was ridiculous, and dangerous, and it was insulting to the American electorate.

quote:

Also, the Clinton camp didn't call Comey an FBI stooge.

FSB =/= FBI, have a good read of the posts you're mouthing off about.

quote:

Also also, Clinton condemning he Russians for interfering in our election almost certainly didn't play a major role in the way anyone voted.

It absolutely did. Less hawkish people didn't want to turn out for that rhetoric, especially when it started being used to paper over any of the cracks in her campaign, and low turnout cost Hillary the election.

# ? Nov 14, 2016 20:24

Venom Snake: Feb 19, 2014; by Nyc_Tattoo

reagan posted:

There was a concerted effort by Hillary Clinton and the intelligence agencies to try and convince people that the evil, scary Russians were planning on hacking the election. Was any of it true, though? After hearing several stories on the NBC nightly news hemming and hollering about how senior intelligence officials had told NBC about the threat, I began to doubt the whole thing. Why were these "senior officials" speaking to one of the largest news organizations in the country and openly threatening Russia like that? Fear mongering bullshit.

Can you blame people for being happy that the candidate who constantly fear mongered about our only real nuclear adversary is gone? Her husband pillaged Russia after the fall of the Soviet Union. She belongs in a museum.

Well there is the fact that the current Russian government is a parody of what the USSR portrayed the United States as during the cold war. The leader of Frances nationalists has out right admitted to being backed by Russia. This has not much at all to do with strategy (the west falling apart can only end badly for Russia) and a lot to do with Russia being run by ultra-rich nationalist crazy people. The war in Syria and Ukraine have turned into a slog draining money and resources the government does not have while their economy struggles. Everyone on the left should despise the Russian Government not because AMERICA #1 but because of the horrible things it's doing to it's people.

Should we get into conflict with them in Syria? No. Should we work with them? No. There is no solution to our current conflict with them that involves military force.

# ? Nov 14, 2016 20:25

Majorian: Jul 1, 2009; Inverted Offensive Battle: Acupuncture Attacks Convert To 3D Penetration Tactics Taking Advantage of Deep Battle Opportunities

Mr. Jive posted:

I think we share the same goals but I'm becoming convinced that if you focus on the latter, the former will follow, whereas the party has been doing the exact opposite lately.

That's totally fair, and if Third Way Centrism represents anything, it's a complete focus on winning while abandoning those principles of improving social welfare for the greatest number of people. It's just important to remember that the Dems need to tailor their "we're going to increase your social welfare" message to the individual audiences within their coalition. As with all relationships, good communication is key. :eng101:

# ? Nov 14, 2016 20:28

NumberLast: Jun 7, 2014

Venom Snake posted:

Well there is the fact that the current Russian government is a parody of what the USSR portrayed the United States as during the cold war. The leader of Frances nationalists has out right admitted to being backed by Russia. This has not much at all to do with strategy (the west falling apart can only end badly for Russia) and a lot to do with Russia being run by ultra-rich nationalist crazy people. The war in Syria and Ukraine have turned into a slog draining money and resources the government does not have while their economy struggles. Everyone on the left should despise the Russian Government not because AMERICA #1 but because of the horrible things it's doing to it's people.

Should we get into conflict with them in Syria? No. Should we work with them? No. There is no solution to our current conflict with them that involves military force.

A lot of pols get stuck in this weird loop of "America has to take the lead!!" On conflicts like this, which may or may not be something the electorate is sick of. Though I know I am.

# ? Nov 14, 2016 20:29

Thoguh: Nov 8, 2002; College Slice

loquacius posted:

Ugh I had managed to forget that David Brock existed until just now, thanks a lot jerks

Payback for this

loquacius posted:

An interesting inversion of my main thesis, but not ultimately contradictory with it.

# ? Nov 14, 2016 20:31

loquacius: Oct 21, 2008

bump_fn posted:

what about misty and ash

Misty was a Bernie supporter obviously

Ash was really into Jim Webb for some reason

Thoguh posted:

Payback for this

It's me, I was the East Coast liberal elite all along

# ? Nov 14, 2016 20:31

Al!: Apr 2, 2010

loquacius posted:

Misty was a Bernie supporter obviously

Ash was really into Jim Webb for some reason

ash really hates vietnamese

# ? Nov 14, 2016 20:31

The_Politics_Man: Aug 25, 2015

loquacius posted:

It's me, I was the East Coast liberal elite all along

you monster

# ? Nov 14, 2016 20:33

Suckthemonkey: Jun 18, 2003

reagan posted:

There was a concerted effort by Hillary Clinton and the intelligence agencies to try and convince people that the evil, scary Russians were planning on hacking the election. Was any of it true, though? After hearing several stories on the NBC nightly news hemming and hollering about how senior intelligence officials had told NBC about the threat, I began to doubt the whole thing. Why were these "senior officials" speaking to one of the largest news organizations in the country and openly threatening Russia like that? Fear mongering bullshit.

Can you blame people for being happy that the candidate who constantly fear mongered about our only real nuclear adversary is gone? Her husband pillaged Russia after the fall of the Soviet Union. She belongs in a museum.

What do you think about Fancy Bear's role in accessing Podesta's email account? http://motherboard.vice.com/read/how-hackers-broke-into-john-podesta-and-colin-powells-gmail-accounts I mean if you want to dispute the extent of Fancy Bear's connection to the Russian government, then alright, I don't know how to dispute that exactly (though their interest in journalists that have been critical of Putin don't exactly alleviate suspicions on that front), but the evidence seems pretty clear that, at the minimum, Fancy Bear was involved.

# ? Nov 14, 2016 20:34

GlyphGryph: Jun 23, 2013; Down came the glitches and burned us in ditches and we slept after eating our dead.

Majorian posted:

It's just important to remember that the Dems need to tailor their "we're going to increase your social welfare" message to the individual audiences within their coalition.

Agreed, and this is one of my biggest worries - that even if the Sanders group pushes out the Clintonites, they are still going to get lazy and forget that many values are local and voters are inviduals and you need to pull as many people in as possible by selling your solutions and services to them directly and understand what they value.

# ? Nov 14, 2016 20:35

ThndrShk2k: Nov 3, 2009; by Nyc_Tattoo; Bread Liar

Majorian posted:

I think there's truth to that, but let's cleave to the question at hand, ie: whether you got called sexist for bringing up issues with the Clinton campaign, or for bringing up those issues in a way that read as sexist. Because I think that's a possibility you're glossing over.

It's more likely they pre-judged any dissent as the enemy, and thus sexist or racist.

Sry m8, people are poo poo.

Only thing is to accept the facts presented and move on to win, correctly.
:bernin:

# ? Nov 14, 2016 20:35

potato of destiny: Aug 21, 2005; Yeah, welcome to the club, pal.

This long rear end article is pretty good. Quoting part of it that jumped out at me:

quote:

Establishing multiracial working-class solidarity to advance racial and class equality presents opportunities as well as challenges

Since class identity has often been racialized, one of the greatest challenges to rebuilding the economic power of the working class lies in establishing multiracial solidarity on a national scale. Getting to that point requires honesty and a collective reckoning about race, white privilege, and institutional racism, with respect to the costs and benefits to each of us. Workers without a college degree were once able to provide a comfortable middle-class lifestyle on a union factory job. Draut (2016) argues that this was possible in part because most of those workers were white men who benefited from an entire social contract that had been written with them in mind. Once the civil rights movement began expanding equal opportunity to African Americans and blurring the old racial lines, new lines were drawn. Ian Haney Lopez (2015) refers to the implicitly race-coded language used by Reagan in the 1980s to redraw these lines�by vilifying people on government assistance and labeling them as �takers��as dog-whistle politics. This was also the beginning of the antiunion backlash that continues today. Recently, Friedrichs v. California Teacher�s Association (CTA) threatened to deal a major blow to public-sector collective bargaining until a deadlocked vote of 4 to 4 by the Supreme Court, following the sudden death of Justice Antonin Scalia, upheld a lower court�s decision to allow public-sector unions to collect fees from nonunion members who benefit from collective bargaining and union representation. Had the Supreme Court ruled against CTA, it would have drastically weakened the middle class, especially among blacks who are disproportionately employed in the public sector. Though the threat of this particular case has been neutralized, future challenges are expected once the Supreme Court vacancy has been filled.

Advancing policies that address persistent racial disparities while also tackling class inequality will require abandoning the zero-sum mindset that says one group�s set of issues is totally distinct from and in direct competition with another�s. Overcoming this trap begins with defining a broader view of how all the issues are related. For example, there is a connection between the political, economic, and social disempowerment of black and brown communities embodied in the remarkably similar rise in mass incarceration during the 1980s and 1990s and deportations during the 1990s and 2000s (Figure J). To begin with, both trends can be traced to policy decisions, the burdens of which have been disproportionately born by black and Latino men and their families. Raphael and Stoll (2013) find that most of the growth in the prison population can be accounted for by society�s choice for tough-on-crime policies (e.g., determinate sentencing, truth-in-sentencing laws, limiting discretionary parole boards, etc.) resulting in more individuals�committing less serious offenses�being sentenced to serve time, and longer prison sentences. These policies have most affected black and Hispanic men, particularly those without a college degree. For example, in 1979, a black man faced a 13.4 percent chance of being admitted to a state or federal prison during his lifetime, compared with a 6 percent chance for a Hispanic man and a 2.5 percent chance for a white man. By 2001, these probabilities had grown to a 32.2 percent for black men, 17.2 percent chance for Hispanic men, and 5.9 percent for white men (Cox 2015).

It's not about, do we focus on racial issues or worker's issues. They're the same issues, when you get down to it. Just 'cause working class white guys aren't currently being gunned down by the cops doesn't mean the continuous effort to stomp the working classes won't get around to them sooner or later.

Solidarity, motherfuckers.

# ? Nov 14, 2016 20:35

OAquinas: Jan 27, 2008; Biden has sat immobile on the Iron Throne of America. He is the Master of Malarkey by the will of the gods, and master of a million votes by the might of his inexhaustible calamari.

So does anyone know stuff about how the dem party is organized in FL? I see city-based "democratic clubs" that seem to just work to elect a county chair, but nothing on how the county chairs interact, or how one piece relates to others for anything but circlejerky luaus and whatnot.

I mean, I know the FDP is complete poo poo, but isn't there a forgotten apparatus for how things could work under there?

# ? Nov 14, 2016 20:37

jBrereton: May 30, 2013; Grimey Drawer

Suckthemonkey posted:

What do you think about Fancy Bear's role in accessing Podesta's email account? http://motherboard.vice.com/read/how-hackers-broke-into-john-podesta-and-colin-powells-gmail-accounts I mean if you want to dispute the extent of Fancy Bear's connection to the Russian government, then alright, I don't know how to dispute that exactly (though their interest in journalists that have been critical of Putin don't exactly alleviate suspicions on that front), but the evidence seems pretty clear that, at the minimum, Fancy Bear was involved.

Who the gently caress cares, what it exposed was a seedy underbelly in the Democrats that people did not like. That's important. Donna Brazile's weird speech to Megyn Kelly where she basically said "if you break into someone's house and it's full of dead bodies, you're the one who's in the wrong and you should shut the hell up" was like the perfect example of how completely out of touch with the electorate the political class has become.

# ? Nov 14, 2016 20:38

tadashi: Feb 20, 2006

Welp, Gwen Ifill died. I'm sure the alt-right will have many heart-felt and sympathetic messages for her friends and family.

# ? Nov 14, 2016 20:40

Venom Snake: Feb 19, 2014; by Nyc_Tattoo

NumberLast posted:

A lot of pols get stuck in this weird loop of "America has to take the lead!!" On conflicts like this, which may or may not be something the electorate is sick of. Though I know I am.

Nothing in that post suggested America should take the lead. In fact. Quite the opposite. The Russian Government is bad because it is full of very bad people and does very bad things.

GlyphGryph posted:

Agreed, and this is one of my biggest worries - that even if the Sanders group pushes out the Clintonites, they are still going to get lazy and forget that many values are local and voters are inviduals and you need to pull as many people in as possible by selling your solutions and services to them directly and understand what they value.

Yep

# ? Nov 14, 2016 20:42

Venom Snake: Feb 19, 2014; by Nyc_Tattoo

https://twitter.com/RitchieSKing/status/798248587603963905

# ? Nov 14, 2016 20:43

ate shit on live tv: Feb 15, 2004; by Azathoth

ThndrShk2k posted:

It's more likely they pre-judged any dissent as the enemy, and thus sexist or racist.

Hell this is still happening right now all over social media and other discussions. It's the wrong lesson to learn.

# ? Nov 14, 2016 20:44

Venom Snake: Feb 19, 2014; by Nyc_Tattoo

OAquinas posted:

So does anyone know stuff about how the dem party is organized in FL? I see city-based "democratic clubs" that seem to just work to elect a county chair, but nothing on how the county chairs interact, or how one piece relates to others for anything but circlejerky luaus and whatnot.

I mean, I know the FDP is complete poo poo, but isn't there a forgotten apparatus for how things could work under there?

The FDP is very shite because it is very divided. Interestingly enough it seems like the college dems have their poo poo together the most in FL from what Iv found.

# ? Nov 14, 2016 20:46

Democrazy: Oct 16, 2008; If you're not willing to lick the boot, then really why are you in politics lol? Everything is a cycle of just getting stomped on so why do you want to lose to it over and over, just submit like me, I'm very intelligent.

jBrereton posted:

Who the gently caress cares, what it exposed was a seedy underbelly in the Democrats that people did not like. That's important. Donna Brazile's weird speech to Megyn Kelly where she basically said "if you break into someone's house and it's full of dead bodies, you're the one who's in the wrong and you should shut the hell up" was like the perfect example of how completely out of touch with the electorate the political class has become.

On the other hand, I would argue that in any organization, there's a certain amount of unpleasantness that goes into accomplishing an agenda. While hypothetically transparency is a good into itself (and necessary for a democratic society) there is a need for people to be able to make compromises and do things that may not look great in private for our political system to function at all.

See: Congress

# ? Nov 14, 2016 20:49

tadashi: Feb 20, 2006

OAquinas posted:

So does anyone know stuff about how the dem party is organized in FL? I see city-based "democratic clubs" that seem to just work to elect a county chair, but nothing on how the county chairs interact, or how one piece relates to others for anything but circlejerky luaus and whatnot.

I mean, I know the FDP is complete poo poo, but isn't there a forgotten apparatus for how things could work under there?

There probably won't be a lot going on with the state parties right now that is wide open to the public except local candidates revving up their campaigns for primary season. You can go to county meetings but they're pretty loving boring and don't determine a whole lot at this point in the election cycle? If you want to learn how things work, the best way might be to find a candidate you identify with and start volunteering for them. It's a good way to meet people who are connected throughout the party locally and learn how the machinery works.

# ? Nov 14, 2016 20:50

logikv9: Mar 5, 2009; Ham Wrangler

Powercrazy posted:

Hey Remember when Hillary Clinton was a shoo-in for what was supposed to be a historic landslide of an election?

# ? Nov 14, 2016 20:54

100 degrees Calcium: Jan 23, 2011

The 2016 election was a study in the consequences of counting your eggs before they're hatched. I say it behooves everyone to stay salty until the very last minute.

# ? Nov 14, 2016 20:56

Terror Sweat: Mar 15, 2009

personally i think the way forward is more superdelegates

# ? Nov 14, 2016 20:57

logikv9: Mar 5, 2009; Ham Wrangler

Terror Sweat posted:

personally i think the way forward is more superdelegates

i wonder if the republicans still want to go through with superdelegates. sure they won, but it was trump instead of somebody more mainstream like rubio or zodiac killer

# ? Nov 14, 2016 20:59

Al!: Apr 2, 2010

logikv9 posted:

i wonder if the republicans still want to go through with superdelegates. sure they won, but it was trump instead of somebody more mainstream like rubio or zodiac killer

On the other hand, the superdelegates didnt help dems much

# ? Nov 14, 2016 21:00

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# ? May 11, 2024 17:03

Hilario Baldness: Feb 10, 2005; Grimey Drawer

Gene Hackman Fan posted:

Tim Canova ain't too big on Ellison for DNC chair.

I don't know how to feel about this -- in the MTP clip he linked, he doesn't really address Chuck Todd's question on whether the Clinton "brand" had become tainted, instead focusing on Trump.

On one hand, to hell with Chuck Todd, but on the other, I honestly don't know if taking the diplomatic road w/r/t how badly Clinton blew it like an egg fart in an elevator is a bad idea.

�\_(ツ)_/�

I'm not too big on Tim Canova's position on Palestine, not a saint but put this man in charge of the DNC.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5eywszG1tmo

# ? Nov 14, 2016 21:04

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > C-SPAM > SUK ZONE: it's all a pointless exercise and you're just screaming into the void

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