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What happens if Trump starts to repeatedly fire members of his cabinet for petty slights? What if he tries to fire Pence without realizing he doesn't have that power?
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Nov 14, 2016 21:06
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1337JiveTurkey posted:When people talk about the working man, they're talking about white men. Just like when people talk about law-abiding citizens, they're talking about white people. It could be that every suggestion of working people is a dogwhistle or it could be that the term "working man" could mean "people that have to work for a living", ymmv.
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Nov 14, 2016 21:07
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mango sentinel posted:I dunno man look at her resume, that claim isn't some opinion. Being qualified and experienced fit the office isn't really related to a loss caused by the reasons I outlined above. The entire pundit and polling class had it wrong as well and going by traditional metrics of campaign efficacy she had no feedback telling her to course correct. The thing is that Hillary was so close to winning, that fixing any one of the issues with her candidacy would have won it for her, and ultimately I think she herself has the foremost responsibility
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Nov 14, 2016 21:07
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There's no way to say his cabinet and his movement isn't racist when his chief policy strategist is a white supremacist.
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Nov 14, 2016 21:08
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mcmagic posted:You wouldn't have Bannon in a Jeb White House. Well clearly they wouldn't be identical, but this really is looking like Bush 3: Clever Bush Pun. All the same players from Bush 2 are around, with a few added horrible people sprinkled in to Trump's taste.
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Nov 14, 2016 21:09
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Radbot posted:Yeah, can't say I'm surprised it took less than a week to go back to calling everyone racist and refusing to discuss anything else. It's one thing to call Trump's voters racist, it's another entirely to call people within the left-liberal coalition racist FWIW I'm under no illusions that Trump's popularity with the WWC was based in racism, but the problem is you absolutely need those people to vote for Democrats in order to prevent Rs from burning the country to the ground, and an economic appeal seems to me the best option you have at attracting them
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Nov 14, 2016 21:10
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icantfindaname posted:The thing is that Hillary was so close to winning, that fixing any one of the issues with her candidacy would have won it for her, and ultimately I think she herself has the foremost responsibility I mean, this logic implies that the proximate cause for her losing was Comey and his hatchet job. The conflux of all the poo poo that went wrong together is the reason she didn't win huge and we didn't take the Senate, however.
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Nov 14, 2016 21:10
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icantfindaname posted:Remember when Hillary's aides mocked BLM for being looney radicals? Her platform would be nominally pro-police reform at best You know what's worse for minorities than a Clinton Presidency? A Trump Presidency. He is still just the President-elect and a string of hate crimes is happening nationwide. Giuliani is going to have a White House job.
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Nov 14, 2016 21:11
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Lightning Knight posted:I mean, this logic implies that the proximate cause for her losing was Comey and his hatchet job. Yeah I think that's true. If Hillary hadn't spent the year before the primary taking donations from Qatar though she probably still would have won even with Comey
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Nov 14, 2016 21:11
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If we're still dissecting what went wrong with the Clinton campaign and how in the world is Trump president: -there was a massive failure in polling. Everyone including Trump thought Clinton was going to win, campaigning in swing states and ignoring PA/MI/WI made sense and was the objectively "correct" decision. Going forward I can see political campaigns become a lot less ambitious as it becomes clear we can't trust polls not to have large systematic biases. No-one seems to have a handle at predicting turnout. -you can't separate Clinton's loss from the Democrat party as a whole losing even more state houses while still way behind in terms of congressional seats. The Democrat party is outspent and frankly outmaneuvered by Republicans at state and federal levels, and are just getting over 90's era third-wayism and active neglect of unions + working class concerns. If the Democrat party as a whole wasn't such a mess maybe Clinton would have beaten objectively the single worst candidate in modern history. edit: Koalas March posted:There's no way to say his cabinet and his movement isn't racist when his chief policy strategist is a white supremacist. Yeah, it's not even subtle. Does he need to put up a sign?
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Nov 14, 2016 21:12
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John Bolton. John loving Bolton. Christ, we are so hosed.
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Nov 14, 2016 21:12
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icantfindaname posted:Yeah I think that's true. If Hillary hadn't spent the year before the primary taking donations from Qatar though she probably still would have won even with Comey (actually, find me twenty thousand, in Wisconsin, but yeah.)
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Nov 14, 2016 21:14
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icantfindaname posted:Yeah I think that's true. If Hillary hadn't spent the year before the primary taking donations from Qatar though she probably still would have won even with Comey I doubt the average person gave a poo poo about that. That was more of a concern troll by the alt-right attempt to discredit her on LGBT issues. The banking speeches are the actual thing that sank any chance at legitimacy, plus emails. If neither of those things had been a thing she would've won easily in spite of all the rest of it.
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Nov 14, 2016 21:14
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Spacebump posted:The only people really doing this in numbers are the people that didn't want Trump to be President. Someone just posted an article on his supporters saying that they think the coal thing was a con. And, apparently, /pol/ is fighting itself over the undrained swamp.
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Nov 14, 2016 21:16
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Nov 14, 2016 21:16
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DACK FAYDEN posted:Bullshit. Find me one vote that was switched by that that wouldn't have been lost to the Vague Miasma of Clinton Scandal anyway. If Hillary was indeed permanently tainted with Clinton Scandal she should never have been nominated
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Nov 14, 2016 21:16
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DACK FAYDEN posted:Bullshit. Find me one vote that was switched by that that wouldn't have been lost to the Vague Miasma of Clinton Scandal anyway. If I absolutely had to pick one thing I find most infuriating about this election, it's that apparently spending twenty-five years trying to smear someone works even if there's little to no substance to it.
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Nov 14, 2016 21:16
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icantfindaname posted:If Hillary was indeed permanently tainted with Clinton Scandal she should never have been nominated I doubt that this line of attack would've worked if not for Benghazimails. Without that they would've been left with ancient conspiracies from the '90s. So what I'm saying is that Al Qaeda is responsible for Donald Trump. 
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Nov 14, 2016 21:18
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icantfindaname posted:If Hillary was indeed permanently tainted with Clinton Scandal she should never have been nominated I think this is really the biggest fundamental mistake. Clinton has been associated with scandals for over two decades. Regardless of if it is fair or not, that's the truth. When it became clear that the emails and Benghazi were going to get pounded and the media had no interest in treating them as the witch hunts they were, she should have stepped down for the good of the party. I have no idea who should have taken her place but she went into this election incredibly wounded and was never able to gain the narrative of her own campaign because of the miasma of bullshit surrounding her. GreyjoyBastard posted:If I absolutely had to pick one thing I find most infuriating about this election, it's that apparently spending twenty-five years trying to smear someone works even if there's little to no substance to it. Yeah it sucks but the lesson to learn is apparently you also don't need years of planning and prep to win either. So when a candidate gets hit like that the better plan is to shift to someone else that can quickly (as in with two years out) pick up momentum as opposed to sticking with the person dragging down everything (even if that person is totally innocent). Eggplant Squire fucked around with this message at 21:21 on Nov 14, 2016 |
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Nov 14, 2016 21:18
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Nocturtle posted:-you can't separate Clinton's loss from the Democrat party as a whole losing even more state houses while still way behind in terms of congressional seats. The Democrat party is outspent and frankly outmaneuvered by Republicans at state and federal levels, and are just getting over 90's era third-wayism and active neglect of unions + working class concerns. If the Democrat party as a whole wasn't such a mess maybe Clinton would have beaten objectively the single worst candidate in modern history. the democratic party gained seats in both the senate and the house, and the north carolina governorship went democratic. are you referring to losses elsewhere?
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Nov 14, 2016 21:20
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mango sentinel posted:LOL if you think Bernie would have won in her stead, but he may have at least flipped the Senate. I agree with the first part but not the second. I think Feingold showcases this.
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Nov 14, 2016 21:20
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Reminder: - John Bolton was so bad, that he had to be recess appointed to be U.N. ambassador - The only Republicans that opposed him are no longer in the Senate - He thinks we should abolish the U.N., confiscate the headquarters in New York, and arrest any diplomats that tried to stay in the building in protest. - He thinks that Iran is a "national death cult" and the only way to stop them from becoming "an international suicide bomb" is to kill their leadership and install new ones. - He provided anonymous testimony that there were WMDs in Iraq, but failed to disclose it and then cited his own anonymous testimony as "expert opinion" that Iraq had WMDs. - Thinks that Russia has a "death grip" on natural resource wealth and that we need to provoke them into conflict in order to "justifiably implement regime change in self-defense and for the greater world order." He will be our next Secretary of State.
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Nov 14, 2016 21:20
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Beelzebooty posted:Where did this happen that wasn't on the something awful dot com forums? That's pretty much all I'm talking about with this - I didn't run into too many overbearing Clinton supporters IRL, luckily.
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Nov 14, 2016 21:21
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:Reminder: Good Christ who the hell approved him? Gingrich would've been better than a relic of the Bush Administration.
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Nov 14, 2016 21:21
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John Bolton?  I hope Iran is ready for war
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Nov 14, 2016 21:22
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Can I call "woke" liberals trying to invoke my people's industrialized slaughter to get cheap points on the internet cultural appropriation?
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Nov 14, 2016 21:22
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John Bolton is also on the record as believing that there is an international Communist-Jihadi alliance to damage the United States that consists of Iran, Venezuela, Cuba, and Syria.
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Nov 14, 2016 21:23
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Business Gorillas posted:Can I call "woke" liberals trying to invoke my people's industrialized slaughter to get cheap points on the internet cultural appropriation? Believe it or not, it's helpful to look at the history of fascism when your nation is facing it.
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Nov 14, 2016 21:24
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Would it be too on-the-nose to refer to Bannon as "Ganon" from now on?
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Nov 14, 2016 21:24
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Scent of Worf posted:I hope Iran is ready for war But Hillary didn't win the election!!!! 
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Nov 14, 2016 21:24
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http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3798064 I've made a thread specifically about getting involved and fighting for progressive policies. I'd encourage everyone to please give it a look and participate. Sitting around arguing on the internet about what went wrong isn't going to help keep people safe from Trump or help the Dems recover in 2018/2020.
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Nov 14, 2016 21:25
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I hope all of the "TRUMP IS BETTER ON IRAN, HE'LL PROTECT THEM FROM WARMONGER HITLERY" morons feel real, real dumb right now.
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Nov 14, 2016 21:25
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Christ, I hadn't even thought of this til now--is there a legitimate chance the UN could be gone in 4 years?
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Nov 14, 2016 21:25
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Paul MaudDib posted:That's also with RBG on the court, and she's an 83 year old survivor of multiple cancers. How long do you think she'll be holding on? 87? 91? Ehhhh, it's possible, and it's more likely than not. But it's also possible that RBG stays alive, Trump gets voted out in 2020, and Clarence Thomas dies under a Democratic administration. I wouldn't put money on it, but it's not something we should necessarily rule out right now.
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Nov 14, 2016 21:26
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Venuz Patrol posted:the democratic party gained seats in both the senate and the house, and the north carolina governorship went democratic. are you referring to losses elsewhere? No I meant the Democrats are just generally way behind at the state level and overall disposition in Congress. The Democrats have been failling behind since 2010, which isn't Clinton's fault (argaubly the DNC shares most of the blame). I was wrong on state level results, the Republicans actually now only control 30 state legislatures vs 32 going in to the election.
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Nov 14, 2016 21:27
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Wraith of J.O.I. posted:Christ, I hadn't even thought of this til now--is there a legitimate chance the UN could be gone in 4 years? Probably not. Even neocons see the U.N. as a valuable forum for states to air their grievances, if nothing else, and the League of Nations managed to cling on for a few years without the U.S. Unless we get global nuclear war, in which case, welp...
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Nov 14, 2016 21:27
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Lightning Knight posted:I hope all of the "TRUMP IS BETTER ON IRAN, HE'LL PROTECT THEM FROM WARMONGER HITLERY" morons feel real, real dumb right now. Maybe you should go ask them on reddit, this forum is full of people that tried to warn you that you were destroying the party and the lives of millions of marginalized people that can't even vote for various reasons
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Nov 14, 2016 21:28
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Guy Goodbody posted:The Republicans aren't hijacking SCOTUS, you moron. The president nominates Justices and the Senate votes to approve the appointments. Just because you don't like the Justices appointed doesn't mean they're illegitimate. Yes it does. We should if they gently caress the court work to destroy its reputation so we can impeach the members he nominates and or stack it. Our goal in rebuilding must be to destroy their power permanently.
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Nov 14, 2016 21:28
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Wraith of J.O.I. posted:Christ, I hadn't even thought of this til now--is there a legitimate chance the UN could be gone in 4 years? I don't know if it would be gone but it sure as hell probably won't do anything. Republicans hate it, we can deny them financial resources and we have a permanent security council seat. If poo poo goes south in Eastern Europe, the Middle East, or the South China Sea I could see a League of Nations-style dissolution. I'm not betting at it yet, but with the types of people he's appointing, poo poo's looking grim. Dredging up the horrors of the Bush Admin isn't what I expected to happen but it's probably the worst actual outcome. They're bringing in the imperialist part of fascism and it's really, really bad.
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Nov 14, 2016 21:28
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Wraith of J.O.I. posted:Christ, I hadn't even thought of this til now--is there a legitimate chance the UN could be gone in 4 years? Probably not. The worst thing the U.S. could do is make them move their headquarters outside of the country and stop paying dues. Trump already said that the U.S. will no longer pay dues for the IPCC or any other U.N. sponsored climate programs, but he hasn't said anything about pulling out of the U.N. entirely. His future Secretary of State supports abolishing the U.N. though.
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Nov 14, 2016 21:28
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