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They did indeed reduce the fringe knockback by too much, they shouldn't have messed with it. Better jumping jets are fun, but they don't actually help much at high levels because every unnecessary second you're in the air versus hitscan characters is a liability for your own survival.
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Nov 14, 2016 20:30
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Elliotw2 posted:Note that they didn't actually delete the knockback, it now scales from 0% at a full 2m splash to 100% for landing it under their feet, and damage now scales from 25% at 2m splash to 100% for under their feet. It punishes you far less for missing rather than affecting anyone with reasonable accuracy. I didn't actually realize this because from playing on PTR it doesn't seem to be the case. Maybe it's a logarithmic scale rather than sequential? In any case this still makes it much harder on Pharah because you have a range of 0-100 knockback strength rather than 100-75, so your muscle memory to lead targets is going to need to change depending on a 0-2m distance (which from 100 ft in the air is a negligible distance) rather than getting a relatively consistent knockback on every hit. The Walrus fucked around with this message at 20:35 on Nov 14, 2016 |
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Nov 14, 2016 20:32
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It seems more like they know they should do something to her, but they're just not sure what, and they have to be careful or she'll become way too strong.
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Nov 14, 2016 20:56
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LITERALLY MY FETISH posted:It seems more like they know they should do something to her, but they're just not sure what, and they have to be careful or she'll become way too strong. It's almost like they have some ideas which they'd like to playtest to see how they work out.
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Nov 14, 2016 21:02
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I'm guessing the logic goes something like this: If you direct hit someone in the legs you get the same knockback as before. If they dodge/you miss it enough to take max splash damage of 80 you get the same knockback as before. Really good Pharahs are far less affected by the adjustment. As for aim disruption, dodging a rocket requires movement, which disrupts aim–currently even dodging well still causes more disruption by knockback. Rewarding dodging with less disruption is good for counterplay. On the other hand, as Pharah doing less than 15 damage a shot with a slow firing low magazine projectile weapon, that's like hitscan pellet plinking away kinds of dps. Losing DPS races with wounded Reapers and Tracers while fighting near your optimum range and are getting splash damage is unsatisfying. No hero should get to be "evasive" without hitting shots or using cooldowns, and slow firing heroes should be have competitive DPS while fighting near their optimal range and getting splash damage/bodyshots. That's why Tracer got her buff back in beta (when Genji was totally overshadowing her), and Widowmaker is getting her buff (only cheaters and savants can use her without getting shamed), and Pharah is getting her adjustments.
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Nov 14, 2016 21:05
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Poopy Palpy posted:It's almost like they have some ideas which they'd like to playtest to see how they work out. It's almost like I was responding to someone freaking out about pharah changes and saying pretty much that.
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Nov 14, 2016 21:27
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slydingdoor posted:I'm guessing the logic goes something like this: If you direct hit someone in the legs you get the same knockback as before. If they dodge/you miss it enough to take max splash damage of 80 you get the same knockback as before. Really good Pharahs are far less affected by the adjustment. these are okay points that I guess help explain blizzard's thought process, but it doesn't change the fact that the changes exacerbate her worst weakness, which is a crippling weakness. and i wasn't actually freaking out lol take my "blizzaerd you fools!!!" rhetoric with a grain of salt pls
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Nov 14, 2016 21:33
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Elliotw2 posted:Yeah, tuning Pharah's knockback down and damage up is like an objectively good thing, The predictable knockback is really important for Pharah, especially vs. McCree-when you hit McCree with the splash, it bounces him, messing up his aim and setting up your next shot. Doing like no knockback at the outer radius is a BIG nerf for Pharah, and also Soldier 76 is stronger. Meanwhile, the buffs are very weak-it's not actually "damage up", it's "minimum damage up ", but increasing minimum splash from 15 to 30 doesn't really change anything. Indirect rockets don't get kills either way, and endless flying basically doesn't matter because flying around all the time is such a liability anyways. slydingdoor posted:As for aim disruption, dodging a rocket requires movement, which disrupts aim–currently even dodging well still causes more disruption by knockback. Rewarding dodging with less disruption is good for counterplay.
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Nov 14, 2016 22:02
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Is it me or PTR been down all day?
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Nov 14, 2016 22:21
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I don't think it makes sense to say that the Pharah player can and must adjust their aim based on predictable knockback to maximize their damage but the aim disruption is unpredictable to the other player shooting back at the Pharah. If they both saw the rocket and are familiar with the knockback then both of the "good players" don't care either way–they predict the effects and adjust their aim. All that matters at that point in the matchup is how much damage the rocket did. Yes, an unseen rocket that's accidentally dodged or otherwise doesn't inflict maximum splash damage will disrupt the victim's aim less than live, so a Pharah shooting at an unaware target is nerfed, and also a Pharah shooting at a target to disrupt their aim to protect their ally is nerfed. But she should be protecting her ally and punishing her unaware target by killing them, not with utility. That's how Attack classes are supposed to protect their teammates: with their damage. At best they might have a cooldown that can protect their team without damage. Soldier has biotic field, Sombra has hack, Genji has deflect. Pharah already has conc.
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Nov 14, 2016 22:24
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Rirse posted:Is it me or PTR been down all day? They shut PTR down. The PTR forums are offline too. It looks like all of it will come to the live servers. We have a tough choice tomorrow, playing with Sombra or grinding the Oni Genji skin from their stupid moba. Attack on Princess fucked around with this message at 22:35 on Nov 14, 2016 |
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Nov 14, 2016 22:32
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Donnerberg posted:They shut PTR down. The PTR forums are offline too. It looks like all of it will come to the live servers. That would make sense, since I notice it wants to pre-load tomorrow's patch when I boot up Battlenet right now.
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Nov 14, 2016 22:45
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slydingdoor posted:I don't think it makes sense to say that the Pharah player can and must adjust their aim based on predictable knockback to maximize their damage but the aim disruption is unpredictable to the other player shooting back at the Pharah. If they both saw the rocket and are familiar with the knockback then both of the "good players" don't care either way–they predict the effects and adjust their aim. All that matters at that point in the matchup is how much damage the rocket did. Right which is why right now a decent Pharah, if she needs to engage a mcree, does do it while he is unawares. It's her only chance. Now even if she does manage to get the drop on him unless it's a direct hit she still gets deleted in no time. I guess we will see when things go live but from my experience so far it's not just not a buff but a big nerf :/
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Nov 14, 2016 22:53
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The only Pharah that is nerfed against unaware McCree is the one whose rockets neither direct hit nor inflict maximum splash damage. Under those circumstances the Pharah is still dealing potentially more than twice the damage to the elusive but unaware McCree as on live. I just don't see it as a "big nerf."
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Nov 14, 2016 23:04
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The system wherein if you time out in game you get kicked off battle.net is the most retarded poo poo ever. Don't ever reset your internet in warmup, you'd be better off quitting the entire game, resetting it, and relaunching. Because it demands the stupid phone authenticator if you time out in game, and only in-game. In fact maybe if you quit at that point and re-launch you can bypass it.
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Nov 14, 2016 23:06
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slydingdoor posted:The only Pharah that is nerfed against unaware McCree is the one whose rockets neither direct hit nor inflict maximum splash damage. Under those circumstances the Pharah is still dealing potentially more than twice the damage to the elusive but unaware McCree as on live. I just don't see it as a "big nerf." yeah this is really the kind of thing that will need to shake out in live to really see I guess I'm just opining. I do disagree with your other assertion though that an aware character would be able to modify their aim to account for the knockback. Even in the perfect controlled scenario where it's 1v1 and both the pharah and target are both completely aware of what the other is doing, the target's trajectory can change wildly depending on angle and position of the rocket impact. Now when the target is in the air, they need to be able to predict that exact trajectory as well as their current position on that trajectory in order to correct their aim and shoot accurately. Pharah only needs to predict where that character is going to land and when.
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Nov 14, 2016 23:11
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Pharah isn't going to really ever do well against McCree, and honestly the best way to play her in any version of the game against him is to switch. Even with 100% knockback, the McCrees I play against will still headshot you before you can take them down or get out of range. Pharah's probably never really going to be terribly viable in the upper levels on the PC just because people are too good at aiming McCree and Soldier at her, unless you can convince the enemy team to not roll out any hitscan characters.
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Nov 14, 2016 23:14
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Elliotw2 posted:Pharah isn't going to really ever do well against McCree, and honestly the best way to play her in any version of the game against him is to switch. Even with 100% knockback, the McCrees I play against will still headshot you before you can take them down or get out of range. Pharah's probably never really going to be terribly viable in the upper levels on the PC just because people are too good at aiming McCree and Soldier at her, unless you can convince the enemy team to not roll out any hitscan characters. Introduce a new tank hero that is literally a bullet magnet
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Nov 14, 2016 23:34
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Pharah looks weaker against heroes that already counter her and a lot stronger against heroes that don't. Those flight changes means she basically never has to touch ground.
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Nov 14, 2016 23:36
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TheKingofSprings posted:Introduce a new tank hero that is literally a bullet magnet If Doomfist had a power that let him open his giant metal gauntlet at the enemy and just suck projectiles into it, that would own. It would own even more if he could use that to charge a meter that let him grab a character and rocket suplex them for 200 damage and a knockdown.
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Nov 14, 2016 23:44
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SlimGoodbody posted:If Doomfist had a power that let him open his giant metal gauntlet at the enemy and just suck projectiles into it, that would own. It would own even more if he could use that to charge a meter that let him grab a character and rocket suplex them for 200 damage and a knockdown. Not projectiles Hitscan
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Nov 14, 2016 23:48
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Replace Pharah knockback with screen-shake, makes it less a nerf against Soldier76 when compared to Mcree.
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Nov 15, 2016 00:00
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Make it so Pharah can still move while ulting
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Nov 15, 2016 00:12
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LITERALLY MY FETISH posted:What on earth for? So I can keep track of my teammates without having them on screen, see what is behind me easier, see what my teammates see, etc. Are you reallu asking how a minimap would be useful in a FPS?
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Nov 15, 2016 00:19
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A minimap wouldn't really work in this game, it's not Battlefield or Halo.
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Nov 15, 2016 00:21
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SlimGoodbody posted:If Doomfist had a power that let him open his giant metal gauntlet at the enemy and just suck projectiles into it, that would own. It would own even more if he could use that to charge a meter that let him grab a character and rocket suplex them for 200 damage and a knockdown. No need for damage or a knockdown since I'll be exclusively suplexing people off ledges or down the Ilios well.
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Nov 15, 2016 00:36
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SlimGoodbody posted:If Doomfist had a power that let him open his giant metal gauntlet at the enemy and just suck projectiles into it, that would own. It would own even more if he could use that to charge a meter that let him grab a character and rocket suplex them for 200 damage and a knockdown. Go play Titanfall.
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Nov 15, 2016 01:04
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Thor-Stryker posted:Replace Pharah knockback with screen-shake, makes it less a nerf against Soldier76 when compared to Mcree. Replace pharah knockback with alt tabbing the enemy.
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Nov 15, 2016 01:31
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Fojar38 posted:Make it so Pharah can still move while ulting Fojar38 posted:Make it so Pharah can still move while ulting Fojar38 posted:Make it so Pharah can still move while ulting Fojar38 posted:Make it so Pharah can still move while ulting yes pakman posted:Go play Titanfall. I've been curious about Titanfall, is it worth it?
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Nov 15, 2016 02:26
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SlimGoodbody posted:yes It's fun and the campaign is great, but EA is dumb as dirt so it may not survive too long unfortunately, and it has some balance issues that kinda reduce variety in multiplayer. I think I heard it's on sale at walmart or something so maybe strike while the iron is hot. The campaign honestly is fun, and has one of the coolest gimmick levels I've played and also titan buddy is cool.
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Nov 15, 2016 02:44
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LITERALLY MY FETISH posted:It seems more like they know they should do something to her, but they're just not sure what, and they have to be careful or she'll become way too strong. They should just buy the Tribes franchise and make us a real game.
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Nov 15, 2016 03:30
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SlimGoodbody posted:I've been curious about Titanfall, is it worth it? It's very good. Balance variety only extend to titans, and that's likely to be fixed soon. Even then, there are a number of viable titans and pilot loadouts in the game. Pilot loadouts especially. Its nothing like this game's "lol 45% of the cast is worthless whoops!" Its maintaining a steady enough playerbase, but if you live outside of the "main" regions, you might have ping troubles.
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Nov 15, 2016 05:58
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chumbler posted:It's fun and the campaign is great, but EA is dumb as dirt so it may not survive too long unfortunately, and it has some balance issues that kinda reduce variety in multiplayer. I think I heard it's on sale at walmart or something so maybe strike while the iron is hot. Titan buddy is basically the iron giant (slightly dopey robot takes euphemisms literally, is extra helpful to a fault, etc) and the gimmick level is legit cool even if a touch longer than the gimmick's novelty (though I love stuff like Portal so puzzle levels tend to go quick) but the fighting is where it stays fun as hell/a proper challenge, especially if you get yourself into fights against both, ah, factions. FAUXTON fucked around with this message at 06:07 on Nov 15, 2016 |
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Nov 15, 2016 06:03
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Really don't like how bliz keep insisting that there is only one way to play certain heroes. Pharah only being viable while airborne, Widow only being useful if she hits headshots, Symmetra only good one first point defense. They should have re-worked Pharah to be more viable when not in the air, similar to TF2's soldier, maybe by replacing the knockback ability with something else.
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Nov 15, 2016 07:36
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Let pharah burn fuel to rocket toward the ground also.
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Nov 15, 2016 08:18
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yo mamma a Horus posted:Let pharah burn fuel to rocket toward the ground also. hell yeah
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Nov 15, 2016 08:20
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Do we have any updates on what the changes to Symmetra will be? Looked on a few pages back in this thread, and a quick google, but didn't see anything concrete.
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Nov 15, 2016 08:26
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qkkl posted:Really don't like how bliz keep insisting that there is only one way to play certain heroes. Pharah only being viable while airborne, Widow only being useful if she hits headshots, Symmetra only good one first point defense. They should have re-worked Pharah to be more viable when not in the air, similar to TF2's soldier, maybe by replacing the knockback ability with something else. Pharah is plenty fine on the ground though? You can play her as a rocket sniper by using her jets to get on high platforms and rain rockets on them while being able to have cover.
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Nov 15, 2016 08:29
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Industrial Meat Package posted:Do we have any updates on what the changes to Symmetra will be? Looked on a few pages back in this thread, and a quick google, but didn't see anything concrete. Kaplan said to not expect anything about Symmetra before December at the earliest.
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Nov 15, 2016 08:32
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yo mamma a Horus posted:Let pharah burn fuel to rocket toward the ground also.
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Nov 15, 2016 08:44
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