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this is the part of dem autopsy racechat where someone assumes anyone trying to highlight race is a clintonite shill out to undermine the revolution, which is exactly the defensive reflex that will lead people to actually ignore race 'people are worried about this so watch out' should not be this controversial
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Nov 15, 2016 02:53
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Tim Cook 2020
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Nov 15, 2016 02:54
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Peel posted:this is the part of dem autopsy racechat where someone assumes anyone trying to highlight race is a clintonite shill out to undermine the revolution, which is exactly the defensive reflex that will lead people to actually ignore race powercrazy
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Nov 15, 2016 02:56
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Tatum Girlparts posted:"That's my secret, I'm always revolutionary"
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Nov 15, 2016 02:56
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Peel posted:this is the part of dem autopsy racechat where someone assumes anyone trying to highlight race is a clintonite shill out to undermine the revolution, which is exactly the defensive reflex that will lead people to actually ignore race No one is ignoring race. We just want economic policies that transcend race, not that are racist. I know it seems impossible, but maybe lets try or at least let's not use the fact that raising the minimum wage won't solve racism as a strike against raising the minimum wage? Is that possible?
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Nov 15, 2016 02:58
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you mean 
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Nov 15, 2016 02:58
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Venom Snake posted:powercrazy was 100% correct and you should never forget it.
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Nov 15, 2016 03:00
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Powercrazy posted:was 100% correct and you should never forget it. You could certainly improve your arguments with provided constructive input by not framing an inquisition smugquest or actually comparing criticism of a female's policy as "rape"  hth~ tread lightly here please =/
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Nov 15, 2016 03:03
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Powercrazy posted:was 100% correct and you should never forget it. let's not go wild here
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Nov 15, 2016 03:03
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You know, there's nothing wrong with criticizing free college as not going far enough. I mean blatantly trying to judo it like Hillary did was dumb, but we can critique it. Black people can say "yeah I can get free college, but I'm still less likely to get a job than a white person with less qualifications." And they can say "I can get an education, but that won't stop a cop from unjustly shooting me and getting away with it." But it's also not going to help a lot of white voters who feel "I got a high school degree, that should be good enough for a high paying job" or whatnot? ... It's a little unfair, sorry. I don't mean to do that. I do mean to say that it's not unreasonable for PoC to look at Bernie's platform and be like "okay, what else you got?" Maybe it would've been enough to stave off the collapse in the Rust Belt, but it definitely left a lot of people feeling cold. That's cool. Bernie doesn't have to be everything for everyone and we can take his vision and move forward with it, combining it with other parts of the dem platform and appealing to a bigger tent.
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Nov 15, 2016 03:04
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Focusing on the white working class shouldn't be and mostly isn't an attempt to save them because of their whiteness, but to split at least some of them from the wider coalition of white voters that is the GOP. At the very least you can bribe them to a platform of wider social and economic justice with re-distributive politics, and hopefully they'll be actively on board out of class solidarity. Also major cities are still super racist so it's kind of funny seeing people there pretend that only Trump voters are racist. Like, Black Lives Matter mostly organizes against city governments controlled by Democrats.
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Nov 15, 2016 03:04
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Weird, I always thought standing up against racism and marginalized people and improving the economic conditions for the poor were not a mutually exclusive goals. But I guess gently caress a brown. I don't want them to take my place at the soup kitchen.
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Nov 15, 2016 03:04
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HOTLANTA
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Peel posted:this is the part of dem autopsy racechat where someone assumes anyone trying to highlight race is a clintonite shill out to undermine the revolution I mean, if the shoe fits...
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Nov 15, 2016 03:05
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bad dems hoped to get rid of Bernie and his message. Instead due to Abuela's defeat the DNC will be forced to consider a new vision and new leadership.
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Nov 15, 2016 03:06
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Atrocious Joe posted:Focusing on the white working class shouldn't be and mostly isn't an attempt to save them because of their whiteness, but to split at least some of them from the wider coalition of white voters that is the GOP. Your last point is big. A lot of Dems are reluctant to criticize some of these Dem controlled govts. The problem is that those with power protect the machine, even when it's Dem-controlled. People gotta put those govts on notice... but, like, people in Ferguson just don't vote a lot. Dems really need to rally these voters too.
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Nov 15, 2016 03:07
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Thoguh posted:I mean, if the shoe fits... https://twitter.com/SenSanders/status/798346463386341377
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Nov 15, 2016 03:07
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Lastgirl posted:criticism of a female's policy as "rape" ?
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Nov 15, 2016 03:08
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jackofarcades posted:You know, there's nothing wrong with criticizing free college as not going far enough. I mean blatantly trying to judo it like Hillary did was dumb, but we can critique it. What Dems go further than Bernie helping out PoC though? He was iffy starting off the presidential campaign but by the end the campaign seems to have internalized a lot of the criticism into their platform. He was really poo poo in actually contacting black voters in particular, but I don't know what mainstream Dem policy planks he rejected. I'm not saying Bernie is great or perfect, but I'm confused with what other Dems do better.
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Nov 15, 2016 03:08
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jackofarcades posted:You know, there's nothing wrong with criticizing free college as not going far enough. I mean blatantly trying to judo it like Hillary did was dumb, but we can critique it. It's not unfair, it's a valid concern. I mean, the matter of the fact is. Jobs are a commodity and America is so far behind on its model for job provision, we're still stuck on the industrial model. Robots are replacing factory workers and most jobs are going towards innovation and technology. Even millennials are up to their eyeballs in debt, so free college isn't necessarily a boon since most people have opted to do trade school just to survive because even with free college and debt free, which is probably great but if the job market isn't there for your qualifications, that 4-8 years degree in a certain field doesn't get you food on your plate and shelter, and that's why there's a lot of millennials who stay at home nowadays and shitpost on the internet arguing about this~  Like the safest and fastest growing job demands right now are either medical or computer science. The baby boomers are starting to get old and are dying, so there's going to be a demand for medical care. Bigger question is why are colleges offering degrees in areas where jobs are scarce though? Like that needs some kind of reformation there. As for people who are stuck in their rural hometowns that are disintegrating with no job prospects and have only a high school or GED to their name, there probably needs some education reform that allows them to find trades, but the bigger problem is, manual labor will be replaced by robots~ So you need to shift education reform where they can do manual repair on robots or do basic healthcare for elderly people. Like we're sorely unprepared for this shift. Lastgirl has issued a correction as of 03:13 on Nov 15, 2016 |
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Nov 15, 2016 03:09
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jackofarcades posted:Your last point is big. A lot of Dems are reluctant to criticize some of these Dem controlled govts. The problem is that those with power protect the machine, even when it's Dem-controlled. People gotta put those govts on notice... but, like, people in Ferguson just don't vote a lot. Dems really need to rally these voters too. The Obama administration gave Chicago it's wonderful Mayor Rahm Emanuel.
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Nov 15, 2016 03:09
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Peel posted:this is the part of dem autopsy racechat where someone assumes anyone trying to highlight race is a clintonite shill out to undermine the revolution, which is exactly the defensive reflex that will lead people to actually ignore race 'People are worried about their economic prospects' should not be this controversial either but here we are This Bernie fellow really seems to know wtf he's doing. white sauce has issued a correction as of 03:14 on Nov 15, 2016 |
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Nov 15, 2016 03:10
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etalian posted:The Obama administration gave Chicago it's wonderful Mayor Rahm Emanuel. And appointed the wonderful FBI director. What a pragmatic move.
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Nov 15, 2016 03:10
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jackofarcades posted:You know, there's nothing wrong with criticizing free college as not going far enough. I mean blatantly trying to judo it like Hillary did was dumb, but we can critique it. I don't think the problem of Clinton's platform was that it went to far, and Hillary had no intention of critiquing it in that way because she wasn't planning on incorporating any of it until Bernie forced her to. I mean sure, if you ask me Bernie's platform didn't go far enough, but who in the Clinton camp was doing that?
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Nov 15, 2016 03:12
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Bernie didn't connect with a lot of POC voters in the primary and we gotta figure out why if he's going to be leading the charge going forward.
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Nov 15, 2016 03:14
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iospace posted:I'm willing to allow cooperation with Trump on infrastructure. Ours is in shambles, so fine, I'll let him have that. Beyond that there is a very, very narrow list of things I'm willing to allow cooperation on. Trumps infrastructure: reopen all coal mines
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Nov 15, 2016 03:15
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ask 'em seriously, just go to these places and ask them y'know, your thoughts on bernie, what he could do better.
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Nov 15, 2016 03:15
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Lastgirl posted:peak c-spam drunken nihilism rite there I'm only now realizing that someone pissed that dudes pants.
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Nov 15, 2016 03:15
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jackofarcades posted:Bernie didn't connect with a lot of POC voters in the primary and we gotta figure out why if he's going to be leading the charge going forward. Education reform. He kept hammering that 58% african american youth were unemployed. Like there needs some kind of program to get them on their feet for this. Nobody's going to hire dishwashers, immigrants will take that job and work for cheap, especially if they're illegal  Need to find a way to put them to work so they can survive and I have no idea how else other than some kind of government program to incentivize this with some kind of vocational training for the incoming future, like clean energy maintenance etc.Infrastructure work is a big one too. MrCussMustard posted:I'm only now realizing that someone pissed that dudes pants. someone? He did it himself because thats what happens when you are completely wasted and nothing matters~ Lastgirl has issued a correction as of 03:19 on Nov 15, 2016 |
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Nov 15, 2016 03:16
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jackofarcades posted:Bernie didn't connect with a lot of POC voters in the primary and we gotta figure out why if he's going to be leading the charge going forward. I think age had a lot to do with it. He made little to no in-roads with older black voters who tend to turn out for the primaries but he did manage to reach younger voters within that demo.
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Nov 15, 2016 03:17
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Peel posted:this is the part of dem autopsy racechat where someone assumes anyone trying to highlight race is a clintonite shill out to undermine the revolution, which is exactly the defensive reflex that will lead people to actually ignore race Absolutely, and no one is saying we should abandon principals of racial justice and equality. But this is the Dem autopsy thread, and what myself and others are saying is that just being against racism isn't enough, we need a strong populist economic message that is predicated on dignity and fairness for all workers, and not identity politics. We have very little time to get that organized too. Saying 'I respect you and will help you' to the people targeted by Trump's hated is good and necessary gesture, especially on a personal level, but not giving every branch of government to a party populated with overt white supremacists is the most important one.
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Nov 15, 2016 03:18
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So what elected official of mine do I email to recommend them to vote for Keith Ellerson as DNC chair? Bernie has spoken out against the electoral college. Thank you. Pomp posted:i've come around to still being mad that midwest WWC didn't care enough to vote against him, but not mad enough to blame them for desperately clawing at future paychecks, and 100% mad at dem establishment for not reaching out to them what the gently caress "Demographics are destiny". punk rebel ecks has issued a correction as of 03:22 on Nov 15, 2016 |
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Nov 15, 2016 03:18
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jackofarcades posted:Bernie didn't connect with a lot of POC voters in the primary and we gotta figure out why if he's going to be leading the charge going forward. It helps when he gets more than 1/300th of the media coverage that is given to the bombastic orange man.
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Nov 15, 2016 03:19
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Powercrazy posted:No one is ignoring race. We just want economic policies that transcend race, not that are racist. I know it seems impossible, but maybe lets try or at least let's not use the fact that raising the minimum wage won't solve racism as a strike against raising the minimum wage? Is that possible? Thoguh posted:I mean, if the shoe fits... this is exactly what i'm talking about guys i'm a british socialist here because it's interesting, important and akin to recent events in my country (the price of being a metropole is foreigners butting in). i paid little attention to the clinton campaign because it was a generic left-neoliberal operation of no special interest. i believe in democratic control of the means of production and consider increasing inequality a perilous threat to humanity in the longer term. i've said nothing whatsoever to suggest an affinity for neoliberalism besides thinking that anti-racist politics are important and powercrazy is accusing me of opposing a raise in the minimum wage, for some reason you won't be able to get on with the job until you stop refighting the primary Tight Booty Shorts posted:'People are worried about their economic prospects' should not be this controversial either by here we are it isn't controversial, it's probably the only statement in this thread that could command more universal assent than 'clinton hosed up' but we're posting about posting, by this point
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Nov 15, 2016 03:20
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jackofarcades posted:Your last point is big. A lot of Dems are reluctant to criticize some of these Dem controlled govts. The problem is that those with power protect the machine, even when it's Dem-controlled. People gotta put those govts on notice... but, like, people in Ferguson just don't vote a lot. Dems really need to rally these voters too. Law Enforcement is a huge issue that even Bernie isn't strong enough on. The most you see from various parties is deification of cops, never will you see the word "accountability." You'll see "training" as if the police possess some sort of childlike innocence, and just gosh darn it, don't realize they aren't supposed to kill people. You'll see plenty of condemnation of "cop killers" as if that is a thing that happens with any regularity. You'll hear about the pressures of the job and that's way they kill over 1000 people a year, most under dubious circumstances, and finally you''ll see them referred to as "only human" as if them randomly killing people is just an unsolvable problem part of the human condition. It's all poo poo and is a perfect example of something where racism certainly contributes but is hardly the cause-in-fact.
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Nov 15, 2016 03:22
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jackofarcades posted:Bernie didn't connect with a lot of POC voters in the primary and we gotta figure out why if he's going to be leading the charge going forward. Because he's an unknown senator from the whitest, least populated state in America, is probably a factor.
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Nov 15, 2016 03:23
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I'm With Cocoa.
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Nov 15, 2016 03:24
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Peel posted:this is exactly what i'm talking about guys Anti racist politics are important. Don't let the few people that say stupid poo poo like "JUST IGNORE RACE" as being serious.
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Nov 15, 2016 03:24
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jackofarcades posted:You know, there's nothing wrong with criticizing free college as not going far enough. I mean blatantly trying to judo it like Hillary did was dumb, but we can critique it. free college is meaningless as long as primary school is loving worthless in 90% of the country
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Nov 15, 2016 03:24
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Oh Snapple! posted:I think age had a lot to do with it. He made little to no in-roads with older black voters who tend to turn out for the primaries but he did manage to reach younger voters within that demo. I suspect that for older black voters it has a lot to do with long term relationships a person has to their political organizations and the surrogates that can vouch for them, and Clinton did that better, while Bernie was this guy who just showed up out of no where. I am the complete opposite of an older black voter though, so maybe someone should go ask a few of them why, instead of speculating with other angry nerds.
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Nov 15, 2016 03:25
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Anyone iffy about using "white working class" is dumb. Each group of people have different needs throughout their community and come from different backgrounds. I say this as a minority. I agree with others that we need economic policies that cross all lines.jackofarcades posted:Bernie didn't connect with a lot of POC voters in the primary and we gotta figure out why if he's going to be leading the charge going forward. This is very important. To be fair, it was mostly generational. Most young adult across all demographics (even blacks) voted for Sanders. punk rebel ecks has issued a correction as of 03:29 on Nov 15, 2016 |
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Nov 15, 2016 03:25
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