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GlyphGryph posted:Anyone know what a "DTC" meeting is? id rather go to a "DTA" meeting
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Nov 15, 2016 06:46
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Majorian posted:C'mon, kid...all the COOL folks are doin' it! You don't have to lie, you just say what you want to do. If one more Democratic candidate tells me to visit their loving campaign website instead of answering a debate question clearly, simply, and concisely I'm checking out. If their answer doesn't start with "We should strive to generally de-escalate in the Middle East" or "Medicare should have its age requirement removed so any American can choose to enroll" or "workers should have a right to unionize in order to bargain for better working conditions and we're going to raise the minimum wage" then you've gone and hosed up. AngryBooch has issued a correction as of 06:50 on Nov 15, 2016 |
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Nov 15, 2016 06:46
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Yeah. Just say stuff like "nobody will have to go hungry," "nobody will have to go bankrupt," etc. if your policies are properly implemented.
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Nov 15, 2016 06:49
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AngryBooch posted:You don't have to lie, you just say what you want to do. If one more Democratic candidate tells me to visit their loving campaign website instead of answering a debate question clearly, simply, and concisely I'm checking out. If their answer doesn't start with "We should strive to generally de-escalate in the Middle East" or "Medicare should have its age requirement removed so any American can choose to enroll" or "workers should have a right to unionize in order to bargain for better working conditions and we're going to raise the minimum wage" then you've gone and hosed up. My god. A liberal platform! I haven't seen one of these in years! 
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Nov 15, 2016 06:54
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Larry Parrish posted:Are you saying Marx is wrong about the cycle of market expansion Eh, I'd say that I agree more with Marx's later, more nuanced approach to market expansion and its relationship to international conflicts, as set forth in Capital, than his (considerably more-frequently cited) earlier approach in The Communist Manifesto. I do not consider myself a Marxist, but I broadly agree with Henryk Grossman's interpretation of Marx and the connection between mature capitalism, imperialism, and Great Power conflict. All that said, though, the part of your post I was more taking issue with was, "No need to lie." The Dems need to make promises that they can't necessarily keep as well, unfortunately. Their own version of "I'm going to bring jobs back to the Rust Belt (even though that's impossible and you're so dumb if you think I'm actually going to do that)."
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Nov 15, 2016 06:59
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Souai posted:I would expect DTC to refer to Democratic Town Committees which are local dem groups mostly in Connecticut and Massachusetts. That would be it! Thanks. I'm checking event schedules trying to find Democratic party meetings in various states that are open to the public. Wow, hey, look, it's the bad guys!
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Nov 15, 2016 07:04
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GlyphGryph posted:Wow, hey, look, it's the bad guys! They were. Now they're mostly nonexistent. If there's a silver lining to the cloud of last Tuesday, it's that the DLC's acolytes have pretty much been roundly discredited, clearing the way for better leadership in the Democratic Party.
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Nov 15, 2016 07:07
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Majorian posted:Eh, I'd say that I agree more with Marx's later, more nuanced approach to market expansion and its relationship to international conflicts, as set forth in Capital, than his (considerably more-frequently cited) earlier approach in The Communist Manifesto. I do not consider myself a Marxist, but I broadly agree with Henryk Grossman's interpretation of Marx and the connection between mature capitalism, imperialism, and Great Power conflict. What many people want from a politician is someone fighting for them. If it's fighting for the impossible, that's only more admirable. If it's fighting for the possible that only fails to happen because of the opposition, even better - you can hammer them for "preventing jobs in the rust belt" or whatever. And in the end, this specific thing isn't impossible. Easy, no. Possible, yes. To the extent people want, probably not. To an extent that it improves the lives of lots of people, definitely. Majorian posted:They were. Now they're mostly nonexistent. If there's a silver lining to the cloud of last Tuesday, it's that the DLC's acolytes have pretty much been roundly discredited, clearing the way for better leadership in the Democratic Party. Well, I mean, Hillary herself was one of their most notable and prominent leaders, so even though the organization itself went defunct a while ago the people involved only had their fall quite recently. It's nice to get confirmation that they and Dean saw each other as the enemy though, makes more sense why Dean was driven out. (And they explicitly hated him because he wasn't down with promoting large-scale murder of foreigners, which Hillary obviously was) GlyphGryph has issued a correction as of 07:11 on Nov 15, 2016 |
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Nov 15, 2016 07:07
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GlyphGryph posted:What many people want from a politician is someone fighting for them. If it's fighting for the impossible, that's only more admirable. If it's fighting for the possible that only fails to happen because of the opposition, even better - you can hammer them for "preventing jobs in the rust belt" or whatever. And in the end, this specific thing isn't impossible. Easy, no. Possible, yes. To the extent people want, probably not. To an extent that it improves the lives of lots of people, definitely. Trump could get all the help he could possibly want from the Dems in bringing the old manufacturing jobs back to the Rust Belt, and it still wouldn't happen. He knew he didn't have a plan for that. He told those voters a lie that they desperately wanted to believe. His big mistake was in making that promise, without a plan for how to make it happen, or even appear to happen in the most shallow way possible. GlyphGryph posted:Well, I mean, Hillary herself was one of their most notable and prominent leaders, so even though the organization itself went defunct a while ago the people involved only had their fall quite recently. Eh, but keep in mind, Hillary being a proponent of third-way centrism was less of a selling point for her this election, than the fact that she was running an historic campaign and was perceived as Obama's heir apparent. She was the last domino to fall. (if you don't count Donna Brazille, although she's a non-entity at this point) Majorian has issued a correction as of 07:17 on Nov 15, 2016 |
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Nov 15, 2016 07:12
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Majorian posted:Trump could get all the help he could possibly want from the Dems in bringing the old manufacturing jobs back to the Rust Belt, and it still wouldn't happen. He knew he didn't have a plan for that. He told those voters a lie that they desperately wanted to believe. His big mistake was in making that promise, without a plan for how to make it happen, or even appear to happen in the most shallow way possible. I'm not saying Trump wasn't lying left and right, I'm saying bringing jobs back to the region isn't impossible. The political will may simply not be there, or we may not be willing to pay the price, but it's not like it would take some sort of magic. They probably wouldn't be the old jobs, either, but new jobs of some sort to inject cash and structure into abandoned communities would definitely be doable.
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Nov 15, 2016 07:15
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GlyphGryph posted:I'm not saying Trump wasn't lying left and right, I'm saying bringing jobs back to the region isn't impossible. The political will may simply not be there, or we may not be willing to pay the price, but it's not like it would take some sort of magic. They probably wouldn't be the old jobs, either, but new jobs of some sort to inject cash and structure into abandoned communities would definitely be doable. Well, but that's my point: Trump promised them their old jobs, or something very similar to their old jobs. He promised that protectionist policies and bullying America's trade partners would bring the old manufacturing jobs back to the Rust Belt. He doesn't have a plan for making good on this promise, and he doesn't seem to have one for bringing new types of jobs back to the Rust Belt, either. Trump's strategy for bringing back the jobs, as expressed on the campaign trail, is basically as follows: Step 1: Engage in trade war with China, Mexico, India, and other current U.S. trade partners. Step 2: Get rid of all regulations possible. Step 3: ??? Step 4: Profit! He doesn't have a clue what he's doing. Majorian has issued a correction as of 07:27 on Nov 15, 2016 |
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Nov 15, 2016 07:22
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bump_fn posted:again, madigan is chair of the illinois democratic committee and so if you say you vote and donate to dems his office should listen Is this all it really takes? Majorian posted:They were. Now they're mostly nonexistent. If there's a silver lining to the cloud of last Tuesday, it's that the DLC's acolytes have pretty much been roundly discredited, clearing the way for better leadership in the Democratic Party. This. If it wasn't for the Supreme Court possibly being lost for 25 years (please Ginsberg keep trucking for four more years!) then I'd say that Trump's victory could very well be preferable. punk rebel ecks has issued a correction as of 07:34 on Nov 15, 2016 |
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Nov 15, 2016 07:29
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Majorian posted:Trump could get all the help he could possibly want from the Dems in bringing the old manufacturing jobs back to the Rust Belt, and it still wouldn't happen. He knew he didn't have a plan for that. He told those voters a lie that they desperately wanted to believe. His big mistake was in making that promise, without a plan for how to make it happen, or even appear to happen in the most shallow way possible. this. he lied out his rear end and instead of making a plan or at least the apperance of one, he just blamed foreigners/minorities/whoever and hoped that would be enough to cover for his bullshit and covered that with a ton of empty bullshit slogans. Majorian posted:Well, but that's my point: Trump promised them their old jobs, or something very similar to their old jobs. He promised that protectionist policies and bullying America's trade partners would bring the old manufacturing jobs back to the Rust Belt. He doesn't have a plan for making good on this promise, and he doesn't seem to have one for bringing new types of jobs back to the Rust Belt, either. Trump's strategy for bringing back the jobs, as expressed on the campaign trail, is basically as follows: this. basicaly he would gently caress the world economy(or at best ours) to death if he actualy went through with any of this.
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Nov 15, 2016 07:37
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https://twitter.com/MiyaTokumitsu/status/798266550776012800 https://redflag.org.au/node/5571
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Nov 15, 2016 07:50
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Trump, when the Wall was built. 
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Nov 15, 2016 08:01
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punk rebel ecks posted:Is this all it really takes? Exactly this.
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Nov 15, 2016 08:01
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iospace posted:https://twitter.com/politico/status/798140449860947968 That is exactly what I expected. I'm so glad not everything is a surprise.
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Nov 15, 2016 08:04
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Mo_Steel posted:Trump, when the Wall was built. 
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Nov 15, 2016 08:09
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iospace posted:https://twitter.com/politico/status/798140449860947968 it's not like they're going to say "we're gonna filibuster y'all!" to the congress that can vote it out
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Nov 15, 2016 08:13
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Yeah this is hopefully just strategizing because Donald is really susceptible to falling under the influence of people he thinks are helping him
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Nov 15, 2016 08:23
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Larry Parrish posted:This is because the Democratic Party is either weak or non existent all over the loving place loving count how many times any politician says anything of sympathy with "poor" in the sentence. Our goddamn discourse still can't say poor inrelation to suffering people. It is either "middle class" or you get idpol specificity. Feels like the loving discourse needs a deplorable underclass to work.
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Nov 15, 2016 08:47
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my unimportant thoughts at 3am after finally catching up on the thread: - ideas espoused are overall v. cool and good - establishment apparent acceptance of keith ellison as DNC is encouraging, let's keep up the pressure for this and every other progressive measure we can. - agree with Peel that we've gotta keep away from sneering at 'identity politics'. trump ran on a more explicitly/implicitly racist platform than anyone since george wallace, and regardless of anything else, the margins of his victory were small enough that we can't say turning out racists didn't pay off handsomely for him. - now he's recreating the patronage of the Harding administration, but instead of giving the plum positions to 'these guys i've known for 30 years, my friends and partners through thick and thin', trump's so thin on genuine friendship and social connections that he's doling out patronage to whoever endorsed him a year ago, and surprise, it turns out most of the people willing to support a mad longshot racism-based candidacy were the crazy fascists/grifters who were so far-right that they endorsed him because even mainstream republicanism was too liberal and PC for them. now they get to be in charge of the country! - further to above, every PoC/LGBTQ person i know irl or on social media is worried for their family, their marriage, maybe even their lives, these aren't like idle concerns for them - so yeah 'social justice and economic justice are irrevocably intertwined, dems are against big money and the elite and bigotry, we're the party of the worker, of tolerance and acceptance, let's work together for all americans' is a great message. 'let's put aside dumb identity politics and focus on the economic question' isn't, so please let's go with the former rather than the latter* *not that I've seen too much of that in this thread outside of couple of people 50 pages back, but i see it coming up more and more in social media, and we're better than this. or we have to be for 2018, if nothing else.
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Nov 15, 2016 08:58
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Grognan posted:loving count how many times any politician says anything of sympathy with "poor" in the sentence. Our goddamn discourse still can't say poor inrelation to suffering people. It is either "middle class" or you get idpol specificity. because people don't identify with the word "poor". That's not a sign of failing to address a group of people, it's a reality of discourse that a person making 25k either believes or wants to believe that they're middle class
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Nov 15, 2016 09:23
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Nov 15, 2016 09:28
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punk rebel ecks posted:This. If it wasn't for the Supreme Court possibly being lost for 25 years (please Ginsberg keep trucking for four more years!) then I'd say that Trump's victory could very well be preferable. As a nuclear nonproliferation wonk, I'm also not terribly optimistic at how global arms control is going to play out under Trump's "leadership," either. 
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Nov 15, 2016 09:33
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theflyingexecutive posted:because people don't identify with the word "poor". That's not a sign of failing to address a group of people, it's a reality of discourse that a person making 25k either believes or wants to believe that they're middle class flipside of this: rural whites making $100k a year believe they are "working class" and that voting for trump was an act of rebellion against a bunch of ambiguously defined urban elites (most of whom are poor blacks and baristas with student loan debt) (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Nov 15, 2016 09:53
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Majorian posted:As a nuclear nonproliferation wonk, I'm also not terribly optimistic at how global arms control is going to play out under Trump's "leadership," either. If we were smart....we would ensure that the launching of a nuclear attack was fatal to the one who ordered it. Mutually ensured destruction, so to speak. wizard on a water slide posted:flipside of this: rural whites making $100k a year believe they are "working class" and that voting for trump was an act of rebellion against a bunch of ambiguously defined urban elites (most of whom are poor blacks and baristas with student loan debt) You are engaging in identity politics. Poor blacks can be baristas too. ...and, as a rule, black baristas are poor.
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Nov 15, 2016 10:01
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wizard on a water slide posted:flipside of this: rural whites making $100k a year believe they are "working class" and that voting for trump was an act of rebellion against a bunch of ambiguously defined urban elites (most of whom are poor blacks and baristas with student loan debt) Sure thing dude
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Nov 15, 2016 10:03
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MrCussMustard posted:If we were smart....we would ensure that the launching of a nuclear attack was fatal to the one who ordered it. Mutually ensured destruction, so to speak. maybe smart people should stop assuming every country will be ruled by rational actors
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Nov 15, 2016 10:04
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Atrocious Joe posted:In order to move beyond Identity Politics we must all become part of a shared consciousness, where individual identity is abolished. Truly we live in the most Xenogears timeline.
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Nov 15, 2016 10:11
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Atrocious Joe posted:In order to move beyond Identity Politics we must all become part of a shared consciousness, where individual identity is abolished. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7fr4aAu_Ryc
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Nov 15, 2016 10:11
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skull mask mcgee posted:maybe smart people should stop assuming every country will be ruled by rational actors Incredibly apropos.
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Nov 15, 2016 10:15
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invisible war was the worst of the deus ex games but the helios ending is one of my favorites https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xBeoreJr4Yc JC Denton/Helios is basically post-human socialism
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Nov 15, 2016 10:15
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This is my favorite IW ending https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=860fXWqbUhs
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Nov 15, 2016 10:26
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New thread title is exceptionally Hamilton. And to sum up my opinions on IW:. " AAAH. AAAAAAAAHHH!! I'M COOKED!"
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Nov 15, 2016 10:29
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OK after a week of interaction with some of the more serious Clinton folks I think it's safe to say that the Trump victory has fundamentally broken most of them and set them on Endless Primary Ragnarok Death March Mode.
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Nov 15, 2016 11:01
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Paradigm shifting without the clutch.
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Nov 15, 2016 11:07
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Tight Booty Shorts posted:I feel as if Dean wasn't bringing this up when DWS was doing the same thing. Dean was booted by Obama, Rahm, and his cohorts specifically for DWS. Maybe Dean just felt like it would have been as pointless as shouting at a wall to point that out. With the possibility for realignment now, makes more sense to discuss it. IDK- outside of his superdelegate tweet I haven't actually heard anything from him in years, but then again I don't watch cable news.
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Nov 15, 2016 11:08
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I just saw this thing on Facebook. Some people want to make wearing a safety pin a thing to indicate solidarity with oppressed people. Apparently this is worse than being a Trump supporter? I get that it's kind of low effort, but shouldn't we all try to be supportive instead of rabidly tearing each other down? This is probably some kind of *-splaining. Sorry.
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Nov 15, 2016 11:10
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naw gently caress it bro political correctness is dead; you can do anything. be a libertarian.
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Nov 15, 2016 11:21
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