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mrmcd posted:Gonna break out my hot take machine and say that punting on the status quo for immigration and gitmo* are still less bad than whatever Trump and his band of white supremacist sycophants have coming down the pipe. Deporting more people than all other presidents combined is not "punting for the status quo" Jfc
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Nov 15, 2016 15:17
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zen death robot posted:When that's been eradicated in many places since the 70-80s it's a little difficult to imagine. This isn't a new problem and the promise of easy fixes is a lie. Who's saying that fixing the rust belt was gonna be an easy task? It's going to be a Herculean task but that's what blue collar Americans do the best. I still have faith in the working class to make their destinies better.
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Nov 15, 2016 15:19
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Tight Booty Shorts posted:Deporting more people than all other presidents combined is not "punting for the status quo" If I remember right, a large part of why Obama's deportation numbers are so high is that he actually had ICE go through formal deportation processes with lot of people who it previous just informally turned back or dumped back over the border and thus weren't counted for previous modern presidents. Not to excuse anything, of course.
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Nov 15, 2016 15:21
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Al! posted:here at mad at liberals inc we have developed dozens of new ways to be mad at liberals For real. This is why us bougie fucks will wind up against the wall when the revolution comes. But maybe the angel of death will pass over you if you paint a safety pin on your door in sheep's blood Captain_Maclaine posted:If I remember right, a large part of why Obama's deportation numbers are so high is that he actually had ICE go through formal deportation processes with lot of people who it previous just informally turned back or dumped back over the border and thus weren't counted for previous modern presidents. Not to excuse anything, of course. Ensuring that your inhumanity is quantifiable when your forebears just didn't keep track seems like a step in the right direction for some reason. GlobglogGroAbgalab has issued a correction as of 15:25 on Nov 15, 2016 |
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Nov 15, 2016 15:22
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zen death robot posted:Trump made it sound so simple to many of those people which is why he ended up winning. I guess. I thought you were implying a goon was saying this. Yea one of the reason why trump won is he gave the people listening some hope. It's not that hard to figure out. "We will bring back jobs" is leagues better than "well as you know when I was a senator in NY working with both parties, we came up with a popular jobs program that invested millions of dollars in communities that were blah blah blah"
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Nov 15, 2016 15:26
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MrCussMustard posted:For real. This is why us bougie fucks will wind up against the wall when the revolution comes.
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Nov 15, 2016 15:27
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How does one counter his argument?
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Nov 15, 2016 15:34
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This is someone who just won a Presidential election, folks.
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Nov 15, 2016 15:36
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Tight Booty Shorts posted:I guess. I thought you were implying a goon was saying this. It's ironically part of the same problem that George HW Bush had when he was facing reelection in 1992. There was no way that his policies and his plans were ever going to sound as good as Bill Clinton's, who could essentially be as rosy as he wanted to be with his projections of the future in detail. So, George HW Bush, like Hillary Clinton, tried to make the job about character, but ultimately failed on the question of empathy. I wonder if the same will hold true in our analysis of Hillary Clinton, whether she failed on the question of empathy and honesty. Democrazy has issued a correction as of 15:44 on Nov 15, 2016 |
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Nov 15, 2016 15:40
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Oh hey btw all you Howie fans, he was just on the radio a bit ago and said he wants Kristen Gillibrand or Joe Kennedy III as President.
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Nov 15, 2016 15:41
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Webbeh posted:This is someone who just won a Presidential election, folks. He's not necessarily wrong
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Nov 15, 2016 15:41
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Zoran posted:He's not necessarily wrong Of course not, I rather think its the idea of tweeting it at all though is what they mean.
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Nov 15, 2016 15:45
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Democrazy posted:It's ironically part of the same problem that George HW Bush had when he was facing reelection in 1992. There was no way that his policies and his plans were ever going to sound as good as Bill Clinton's, who could essentially be as rosy as he wanted to be with his projections of the future in detail. So, George HW Bush, like Hillary Clinton, tried to make the job about character, but ultimately failed on the question of empathy. I wonder if the same will hold true in our analysis of Hillary Clinton, whether she failed on the question of empathy and honesty. I agree, Hillary Clinton is a great republican. Not a great democrat.
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Nov 15, 2016 15:47
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Zythrst posted:Oh hey btw all you Howie fans, he was just on the radio a bit ago and said he wants Kristen Gillibrand or Joe Kennedy III as President. What is the obsession with getting a Kennedy to be President? It's been 50 years.
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Nov 15, 2016 15:47
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Just called my rep and told him to vote for Keith Ellison as DNC Chair. Feels good to do my part!Zoran posted:He's not necessarily wrong That's why I dislike the electoral system even more. Because then Dem voters can yell "yeah but so could have Hillary!" and it goes around in a circle. Democrazy posted:What is the obsession with getting a Kennedy to be President? And the original dude wasn't even that good of a president.
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Nov 15, 2016 15:49
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Democrazy posted:What is the obsession with getting a Kennedy to be President? Because people for some dumb reason love political dynasties
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Nov 15, 2016 15:49
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Democrazy posted:What is the obsession with getting a Kennedy to be President? http://www.npr.org/2016/11/15/502111367/howard-dean-wants-to-lead-the-dnc-again-has-a-50-state-strategy Here is the interview. God Howie your the worst.
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Nov 15, 2016 15:51
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punk rebel ecks posted:How does one counter his argument? I guess that's the joke but, just to reinforce the result: He got crushed in NY and California won the election for Clinton. Plus, popular vote means people all over the Midwest and South could show up because their vote would actually mean something. Only campaigning in some states is what killed Clinton in the end. RE: Kennedy We tried to get a Carter elected to governor and it turns out he sucked at campaigning, giving speeches, and debating and the apple couldn't have fallen farther from the 3rd generation tree. tadashi has issued a correction as of 15:55 on Nov 15, 2016 |
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Nov 15, 2016 15:52
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Democrazy posted:
ftfy Zythrst posted:Of course not, I rather think its the idea of tweeting it at all though is what they mean. IMO a president is cheapened by using Twitter in the first place. It's the sort of thing that leads to the popularity contest mentality that's taken over. Now watch me whip. Watch me nae nae. Look how fun and cool I am. Of course, this thought doesn't exactly apply to the pile of class that is Trump. GlobglogGroAbgalab has issued a correction as of 15:59 on Nov 15, 2016 |
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Nov 15, 2016 15:53
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MrCussMustard posted:ftfy Or just use it like Bernie as more time in the day to be stumpin! 
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Nov 15, 2016 16:02
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MrCussMustard posted:IMO a president is cheapened by using Twitter in the first place. It's the sort of thing that leads to the popularity contest mentality that's taken over. Now watch me whip. Watch me nae nae. Look how fun and cool I am. I disagree. Trump's tweets wield awesome power. If I was a head of state, I'd be drat careful about meeting with the Donald. If the meeting goes badly, in all likelihood Trump will tweet within seconds and the entire world will know. I mean the ENTIRE WORLD. Instantly. Trump's twitter account is the singularity.
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Nov 15, 2016 16:03
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Anyone remember that one article that came out before the election that compared different group's incomes from the 50s, 60s, 70s, 80s, etc? I've been googling and trying to find it but haven't been successful.
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Nov 15, 2016 16:06
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Zythrst posted:Or just use it like Bernie as more time in the day to be stumpin! LegoPirateNinja posted:I disagree. Trump's tweets wield awesome power. If I was a head of state, I'd be drat careful about meeting with the Donald. If the meeting goes badly, in all likelihood Trump will tweet within seconds and the entire world will know. I mean the ENTIRE WORLD. Instantly. Trump's twitter account is the singularity. Meh. I guess you're both right. I just loathe social media. Present company excluded, of course.
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Nov 15, 2016 16:15
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Zythrst posted:Or just use it like Bernie as more time in the day to be stumpin! It's interesting the way they use it. Trump uses Twitter as his Id broadcast: he uses the medium to send messages you can't send on more "dignified" channels like the news. Bernie's team uses twitter to repeatedly hammer core points derived from messages he sends in other media. I have to say Trump's use is superior, because it is innovative. It takes full advantage of the fact that twitter, as a medium for legitimate discussion, cannot be taken 100% seriously.
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Nov 15, 2016 16:26
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Tight Booty Shorts posted:I agree, Hillary Clinton is a great republican. Not a great democrat. We haven't really touched on this yet in the thread - but her campaign spent a lot of time highlighting all these republican figures that were going to be voting for her instead of Trump in an attempt to sway moderate republicans to vote for her. But at the end of the day those republicans went ahead and held their nose and voted for Trump. My thought is all those endorsements, both outright and subtle, hurt her overall because they did more to supress democratic turnout than they did to pull republicans over to her side. Especially since it was a bunch of establishment republicans who were making those statements.
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Nov 15, 2016 16:28
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Thoguh posted:We haven't really touched on this yet in the thread - but her campaign spent a lot of time highlighting all these republican figures that were going to be voting for her instead of Trump in an attempt to sway moderate republicans to vote for her. But at the end of the day those republicans went ahead and held their nose and voted for Trump. Triangulation does not work and hopefully is dead after this disastrous election. Triangulation does not work and hopefully is dead after this disastrous election. Triangulation does not work and hopefully is dead after this disastrous election.
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Nov 15, 2016 16:31
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Tight Booty Shorts posted:I agree, Hillary Clinton is a great republican. Not a great democrat. That SNL skit about the debate was perfect. "Are you going to vote for Trump, or are you going to vote for the republican?" Did she not realize that everyone thought she was a weather vane at best or a chameleon at worst? Thoguh posted:We haven't really touched on this yet in the thread - but her campaign spent a lot of time highlighting all these republican figures that were going to be voting for her instead of Trump in an attempt to sway moderate republicans to vote for her. But at the end of the day those republicans went ahead and held their nose and voted for Trump. Do you really think the republican endorsements hurt her? I don't know how much they helped, but were they overall to her detriment?
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Nov 15, 2016 16:33
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Thoguh posted:We haven't really touched on this yet in the thread - but her campaign spent a lot of time highlighting all these republican figures that were going to be voting for her instead of Trump in an attempt to sway moderate republicans to vote for her. But at the end of the day those republicans went ahead and held their nose and voted for Trump. It also likely further galvanized conservatives who were already bitter at the establishment GOP. They may hate Obama and Hillary, but they also hate the establishment GOP for even allowing Obama to accomplish anything. If you link the two, it's just extra motivation to get to the poll.
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Nov 15, 2016 16:34
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Thoguh posted:We haven't really touched on this yet in the thread - but her campaign spent a lot of time highlighting all these republican figures that were going to be voting for her instead of Trump in an attempt to sway moderate republicans to vote for her. But at the end of the day those republicans went ahead and held their nose and voted for Trump. Pretty much. I was hoping McMullin would also play spoiler, or that the polls showing a high amount of crossover were true. Though as Chapo Trap House said, the GOP will shank you the moment you turn your back.
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Nov 15, 2016 16:34
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https://twitter.com/SenSanders/status/798547105518206976
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Nov 15, 2016 16:35
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punk rebel ecks posted:How does one counter his argument? He's assuming that him pushing for those places would yield him enough actual votes to overtake Hillary while also not losing him any popular votes in the states he would not have campaigned in instead. He's trying to have his cake and eat it essentially, nevermind that people may also vote differently if they were voting on a presumption of the popular vote picking the President and not the EC.
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Nov 15, 2016 16:36
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Thoguh posted:We haven't really touched on this yet in the thread - but her campaign spent a lot of time highlighting all these republican figures that were going to be voting for her instead of Trump in an attempt to sway moderate republicans to vote for her. But at the end of the day those republicans went ahead and held their nose and voted for Trump. Pretty much. Why her campaign thought it'd be an good idea to broadcast statements like these still leaves me befuddled. quote:Following Hillary Clinton’s successful debate on Monday night, Together for America announced today that the ranks of Republicans and Independents who are stepping forward to back Hillary Clinton for President are growing. An additional 40 prominent leaders — including several senior administration officials and congressional staff, officials from the national security community, business leaders, and more than 10 prominent elected officials from battleground states — are all stepping forward to put country ahead of party. MrCussMustard posted:That SNL skit about the debate was perfect. "Are you going to vote for Trump, or are you going to vote for the republican?" Did she not realize that everyone thought she was a weather vane at best or a chameleon at worst? Yea they hurt her. You get two choices- the Republican Party candidate, and the candidate that has the backing of all these establishment republicans. Your choice, America. Yas queen.
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Nov 15, 2016 16:39
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punk rebel ecks posted:Triangulation does not work and hopefully is dead after this disastrous election. The problem isn't triangulation, it's having an actual loving candidate. Quoting myself from somewhere else: quote:Eisenhower vs Stevenson, Kennedy vs Nixon, LBJ vs Goldwater, Nixon vs McGovern, Carter vs Ford, Reagan vs Carter, Clinton vs Bush, Bush vs Cheney, Obama vs McCain, Obama vs Romney, Trump vs Clinton. Probably further back than that, honestly, but I haven't taken the time to dig into it as much as I would like. The only race I can't frame in this is Bush Sr vs Dukakis, which is basically "I'm going to continue Reagan's legacy, you all liked Reagan" vs "I'm in a tank". Every single time, the winning candidate had a better grasp of appealing to the emotion of the electorate regardless of their actual policies or ability to achieve them. Bill absolutely triangulated, but he has charisma and ran on a message. "It's the economy, stupid" worked really well against a guy who had to walk back on the "No new taxes" pledge even if Perot played spoiler. Hillary ran as simply not being Trump and hoping the massive unfavorability of Trump would buoy her. It might have, if she had given anyone a reason to vote for her besides "I'm not Donald Trump".
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Nov 15, 2016 16:41
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Tight Booty Shorts posted:Pretty much. Why her campaign thought it'd be an good idea to broadcast statements like these still leaves me befuddled. Clearly I was wrong, but it seemed to me to indicate that the realization that Trump is an unfit puke was nearly ubiquitous. I was absolutely confidant that she would win. Then again, I didn't vote for her, and while I would do things over again the same way, I suppose there is a lesson to be learned here. redneck nazgul posted:[...]if she had given anyone a reason to vote for her besides "I'm not Donald Trump". "Who am I? Who do you want me to be?" Sounds like something a prostitute would say. E: Actually, this is clearly a fallacy on my part, making up a quote to represent the vibe someone gives off, then to respond as if someone actually did say it. Sorry! GlobglogGroAbgalab has issued a correction as of 16:50 on Nov 15, 2016 |
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Nov 15, 2016 16:42
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once again, berine sanders is ignoring minority rights
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Nov 15, 2016 16:43
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My friend's trip report going to the LA Democratic Party meeting this week:quote:Tonight we went to the LA County Democratic Party meeting. It was a packed house in Koreatown. There were establishment types. There were Bernie Bros. They clashed. It was interesting to learn that the average local election still runs somewhere close to 2M per candidate... drat. While struggling to get a PowerPoint working, the staff did express an earnest desire to reach out to Millenials. They tried doing that by making memes on Facebook smh. They showed us a pamphlet they ran during the election and it was everything we knew wouldn't work for people of our age. They're a little out of touch and a little trapped in their system of doing things (sound familiar?). Frankly, if someone could just do social media for the Party, there's a real job there. [I'm] going to keep going and see how we can open this up to get more of our friends involved. By joining, you will have direct say in who becomes your electorate.
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Nov 15, 2016 16:44
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MrCussMustard posted:That SNL skit about the debate was perfect. "Are you going to vote for Trump, or are you going to vote for the republican?" Did she not realize that everyone thought she was a weather vane at best or a chameleon at worst? They went a long way to her losing my vote.
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Nov 15, 2016 16:49
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punk rebel ecks posted:Triangulation does not work and hopefully is dead after this disastrous election. Trying to find a message that appeals to everyone is quite literally triangulation
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Nov 15, 2016 16:49
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Shadowhand00 posted:My friend's trip report going to the LA Democratic Party meeting this week: Holy gently caress why are they still forcing bad memes on us  Purge the centrists.
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Nov 15, 2016 16:51
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Shadowhand00 posted:My friend's trip report going to the LA Democratic Party meeting this week: The 2M number for LA democrats makes sense given that LA county has as many people in it as multiple states. I doubt that number would hold for most places.
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Nov 15, 2016 16:52
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