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Trojan Kaiju posted:There's the general lack of shields in the beginning classes (I believe a total of 1 class gets one?) In comparison, I still remember Geop's initial reaction to the Dark Souls 1 character creation screen, along the lines of "So I've noticed even the mage has a shield. Should I take it as a hint?" 
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Nov 14, 2016 00:40
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Trojan Kaiju posted:This game is also the start of something brought up in the HBomberguy video, in which you can't always get away by just being out of range (though sometimes you can), because certain enemies, like that starting ogre and the ironclad knights, advance before attacking if you are just out of range. It's not a universal design decision but it's notable, especially since those 2 enemies were specifically shown off in promotional material due to the ways that they reacted to common Souls tactics. They added in things that encouraged you to go shieldless, I know, but they also added in a bunch of stuff to punish it, too- like the enemies that delay their attacks and track you forever, so you really need to dodge an attack at the exact right time. In practice I always found that the game didn't so much encourage offense as it just punished everything. Sum Gai fucked around with this message at 03:02 on Nov 14, 2016 |
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Nov 14, 2016 02:56
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Sum Gai posted:They added in things that encouraged you to go shieldless, I know, but they also added in a bunch of stuff to punish it, too- like the enemies that delay their attacks and track you forever, so you really need to dodge an attack at the exact right time. In practice I always found that the game didn't so much encourage offense as it just punished everything. Enemy attack tracking was one thing that really pissed me off about this one. They don't do it any less in Dark Souls 3, mind you, but at least in that game they had animations for doing a 180 in the middle of an attack to swing behind them.
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Nov 14, 2016 03:53
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The enemy tracking was more a response to people fishing for backstabs in Dark Souls 1 than it is a way to counter dodging. Dark Souls 1 becomes a billion times easier if you stay close to an enemy, dodge it once and then backstab it. It's a near guaranteed win against 90% of the humanoid type enemies and even some non-humanoid enemies in that game. It's just that the tracking implementation in Dark Souls 2 wasn't very good as it made it very hard to read enemy movements sometimes.
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Nov 14, 2016 07:21
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Nov 16, 2016 03:41
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Goonther, the Hands of Shield
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Nov 16, 2016 04:21
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The real DARK Souls starts here.
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Nov 16, 2016 04:30
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Don't listen to them Geop, do it like me and don't light any sconces, you don't need them at all! I was dumb and thought torches were useless.
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Nov 16, 2016 06:11
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Gotta hand it to you, you found that shield faster than I did. I can't really come to grips with the fact that you don't have enough strength to wield it though. I am glad you remained palm and didn't kill that bug though.
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Nov 16, 2016 07:13
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oh yes oh god yes form the head FORM THE HEAD unghhhh...
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Sum Gai posted:so you really need to dodge an attack at the exact right time. As opposed to dodging at the wrong time.
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Nov 16, 2016 07:22
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I'm currently on part 18, where Geop gets the binoculars, so sorry if it's already been mentioned: Geop, you might want to turn off depth of field. It makes the game look like poo poo, especially if you're using the binoculars. The bluriness is (mostly) DoF's fault, it's not texturing. On:  Off:  PC version, but I'm guessing it's the same on consoles.
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Nov 16, 2016 08:46
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The Gutter is imo a good, idealized version of both Blighttown and Tomb of the Giants in terms of gameplay. But I also stopped using a shield about half an hour into the game so I was way more comfortable keeping a torch up forever
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Nov 16, 2016 10:33
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so does anything happen if you light all the sconces in the gutter?
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Nov 16, 2016 11:47
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double nine posted:so does anything happen if you light all the sconces in the gutter? in this gutter, yes but actually *finding* all the sconces, though
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Nov 16, 2016 13:24
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scamtank posted:in this gutter, yes That's why i asked. I tried finding all of them and went through the entire gutter over and over but never got anything.
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Nov 16, 2016 13:32
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double nine posted:That's why i asked. I tried finding all of them and went through the entire gutter over and over but never got anything. There are certain easily missable side areas with sconces. I have only managed to do it once because there is always one i miss.
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Nov 16, 2016 14:04
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I have to say, Squint does a very good Duke impression.
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Nov 16, 2016 14:05
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scamtank posted:in this gutter, yes It's easier to see the side areas and paths and things you could fall on from above if you had more light with you.
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Nov 16, 2016 14:10
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You totally want to light all torches here in Scholar edition, because it does a thing. Of course doing that is a goddamn nightmare, unless you already know the level pretty well.
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Nov 16, 2016 14:22
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Fire is your friend in the Gutter. Also lighting sconces in this game was a must for me; I thought it made the world look way prettier.
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Nov 16, 2016 14:53
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Attestant posted:You totally want to light all torches here in Scholar edition, because it does a thing. The one torch they added to the long rope that goes from one end to the other is very missable, and on my first try the thing ended up in the abyss.  It's a shame that it's almost impossible to get invasions in the Gutter (and in general), because all the different routes and shortcuts makes it a very intense area to pvp in.
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Nov 16, 2016 15:06
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Psychedelicatessen posted:It's a shame that it's almost impossible to get invasions in the Gutter (and in general), because all the different routes and shortcuts makes it a very intense area to pvp in. The one time I got invaded there, I was at the first bonfire and the invader spawned on the other side of the chasm. I just sat there and watched him flail around for two or three minutes until he finally fell off an edge and died.
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Nov 16, 2016 15:09
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The Gutter is pretty bad to be an invader in. The host can be a real pain to find, he may randomly fall off somewhere, there are plenty of one way segments you can accidentally go down to, and the statues hate even you.
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Nov 16, 2016 15:31
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Crush the statues with your mighty torch, Geop.
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Nov 16, 2016 15:44
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It's painful watching geop bow down harmless bugs, but I guess I can give him a pass since he skipped the bonfire and was far away. Most of the danger in the gutter is gravity instead of the enemies, except for one specific attack by the hollows. I think the move Geop got hit by that chunked him for half his HP was the 2h R2 equivalent for those dudes. The problem is all their other attacks are pretty slow, too, even though the others don't do nearly as much damage. The hard hitting move I think is a wind up to a thrust attack. I was surprised too, because they have what looks like broken swords for weapons. Later on you can get swarmed by a lot of them and have low room to maneuver, so it's pretty easy to get dogpiled by these dudes and it's hard to see what enemy is doing what attack in the dark.
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Nov 16, 2016 16:14
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sckye posted:I'm currently on part 18, where Geop gets the binoculars, so sorry if it's already been mentioned: 
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Nov 16, 2016 16:16
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Cory in the Blouse posted:It's painful watching geop bow down harmless bugs, but I guess I can give him a pass since he skipped the bonfire and was far away. Most of the danger in the gutter is gravity instead of the enemies, except for one specific attack by the hollows. I think the move Geop got hit by that chunked him for half his HP was the 2h R2 equivalent for those dudes. The problem is all their other attacks are pretty slow, too, even though the others don't do nearly as much damage. The hard hitting move I think is a wind up to a thrust attack. I was surprised too, because they have what looks like broken swords for weapons. Later on you can get swarmed by a lot of them and have low room to maneuver, so it's pretty easy to get dogpiled by these dudes and it's hard to see what enemy is doing what attack in the dark. Gutter is my favourite area in DS2. So much to explore, torches to light, it is dense in a way a lot of the other corridor-levels aren't...and it's just dark enough to be atmospheric without being too dark to come off as obnoxious.
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Nov 16, 2016 16:57
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I'm going to say that I prefer Valley of Defilement and Blighttown over the Gutter. The poison and general assholery made the first two very frustrating, but without it I thought Gutter is just boring.
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Nov 16, 2016 17:48
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I want to add to all this Gutter talk that there may still be a way to get back to the first bonfire. I know for certain that when Geop was on the bridges that was the case. In any case there were some areas that were missed during this video. Keeping a lit torch with you helps you see all kinds of things and it also may cast a shadow on one other weird and not really documented game mechanic that Geop has just barely missed in previous areas.
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Nov 16, 2016 18:01
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Laputanmachine posted:I want to add to all this Gutter talk that there may still be a way to get back to the first bonfire. I know for certain that when Geop was on the bridges that was the case. In any case there were some areas that were missed during this video.
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Nov 16, 2016 18:04
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Geop posted:Unless I'm missing a secret options window, the PS4 definitely won't let me disable graphical effects That's unfortunate. Oh well, no big deal.
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Nov 16, 2016 19:04
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The Goonther knows where it is at all times. It knows this because it knows where it isn't. By subtracting where it is from where it isn't, or where it isn't from where it is (whichever is greater), it obtains a difference, or deviation. The Geop uses deviations to generate corrective commands to drive the Goonther from a position where it is to a position where it isn't, and arriving at a position where it wasn't, it now is. Consequently, the position where it is, is now the position that it wasn't, and it follows that the position that it was, is now the position that it isn't. In the event that the position that it is in is not the position that it wasn't, the system has acquired a variation, the variation being the difference between where the Goonther is, and where it wasn't. If variation is considered to be a significant factor, it too may be corrected by the Geop. However, the Goonther must also know where it was. The Goonther's guidance scenario works as follows. Because a variation has modified some of the information the missile has obtained, it is not sure just where it is. However, it is sure where it isn't, within reason, and it knows where it was. It now subtracts where it should be from where it wasn't, or vice-versa, and by differentiating this from the algebraic sum of where it shouldn't be, and where it was, it is able to obtain the deviation and its variation, which is called error.
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Nov 16, 2016 20:51
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double nine posted:so does anything happen if you light all the sconces in the gutter? As long as shields exist, Goonther will never know
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Nov 16, 2016 22:00
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Kuvo posted:The Goonther knows where it is at all times. It knows this because it knows where it isn't. By subtracting where it is from where it isn't, or where it isn't from where it is (whichever is greater), it obtains a difference, or deviation. The Geop uses deviations to generate corrective commands to drive the Goonther from a position where it is to a position where it isn't, and arriving at a position where it wasn't, it now is. Consequently, the position where it is, is now the position that it wasn't, and it follows that the position that it was, is now the position that it isn't. *Opens up Wolfram Alpha.* *furious typing with occasional AH HAHS! and EUREKAs* This math checks out
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Nov 16, 2016 23:18
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Blighttown felt vibrant and lived-in, and had wonderful atmosphere and scenery. The Gutter feels empty and suspended in a pit of blackness. I do not like The Gutter.
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Nov 16, 2016 23:53
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The ghosts work really well in the Gutter. Obviously the darkness makes them stand out more, but with all the sconces and such they seem to be busying themselves more often. Also I am a sucker for lighting all the lights in videogames. It's just very satisfying. That and purifying the environment type mechanics.
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Nov 17, 2016 02:01
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They should have put those gross swollen nutsack ghouls from the Shaded Woods in the Gutter rather than regular hollows. Although, the ones that have swords and hit like a truck are an excellent trap. I'm so-so on the area. The torch-lighting gimmick is actually really fun, and there are a few wonderfully unsettling asides, like the big bug that won't hurt you (but absolutely terrified me the first time I went through, no poo poo), but...I dunno. Blighttown is actually really entertaining in it's utter cruelty, and the Valley of Defilement, while monumentally sadistic in a not-actually-fun way, was superbly disgusting yet felt the most like a real habitation in a profoundly sad state of being; a deep-south bayou shantytown from hell. The only thing missing was some hideous wretch strumming a banjo.
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Nov 17, 2016 05:04
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I really enjoy The Gutter because it also reminds me of some bits of DS1 where I thought "oh well I guess I'm as deep as I'm gonna go in the world". Then you find a new pit, which you head down. And it keeps. On. Going.  As handy as bonfire warping is in this game, I think it ruins some of the isolation that DS1 gave, particularly nearing Blighttown.
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Nov 17, 2016 06:10
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Kuvo, I hope you guide Geop to a piece of armor in the gutter.
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Nov 17, 2016 09:35
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Pretty sure the wicked eye shield was one of the shield design contest winners.
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Nov 19, 2016 08:37
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