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BarbarianElephant posted:Personally I prefer Bernie to Clinton, but back when that was a question, the sheer Trump-esque craziness of his supporters gave me pause. I don't want to vote in left-wing-Trump. I don't think Bernie is left-wing-Trump, but I think a lot of Berniebros (the ones who voted Trump because they couldn't vote Bernie) wish he was. Holy poo poo this is just the epitome of liberal snobbery.
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Nov 16, 2016 16:04
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Crowsbeak posted:She ran as Obama without being able to tout his accomplishments. Or his charisma.
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Nov 16, 2016 16:04
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If they somehow manage to cut SS, Medicare and Medicaid you will have people dying in the streets like we haven't seen since the Great Depression. Good to know we will soon be a 3rd world kleptocracy.
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Nov 16, 2016 16:04
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Mahoning posted:Holy poo poo this is just the epitome of liberal snobbery. What, I don't want a candidate just like Trump but a lefty, and that makes me a snob?
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Nov 16, 2016 16:06
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BarbarianElephant posted:9/10 of these guys will hate Obama when Trump tears up Obamacare because they aren't particularly logical. I think motivated reasoning is going to make it harder to convince people to believe Obama made Republicans end Medicare. When Trump tells you scrapping NAFTA will magically bring back all the good 1950s jobs, you want to believe those jobs are coming back so bad, especially if Clinton's best counter at the debate is "well that's your opinion". When Republicans tell you we just can't have Medicare anymore, well you want Medicare so not many people are going to say "oh well I'll just lie down in the street and die when I retire no biggie". Assuming there's a Dem challenger who says "no we're not getting rid of Medicare why the gently caress would we need to do that". I don't even understand why post-Bush Republicans are always trying to destroy Medicare. What does it get them, who is lobbying for this. Insurance companies don't want to insure a bunch of sick old people, doctors don't want to lose business, old people vote, people in their 40s who would be hosed over first vote, what possible upside is there to doing this? For anyone??
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Nov 16, 2016 16:06
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Condiv posted:that just falls into her being incompetent and corrupt again. she fed the emails scandal multiple times by lying about it during the primaries instead of owning up to what the private email server actually was at the outset. In Northern Virginia (aka the area that saved Hillary's rear end in Virginia) I was in a doctor's office a few days after the election. An old man came in and said "HEY ABOUT THAT ELECTION HUH?" and he and the two front desk people (young women) started talking about it. The guy said he didn't like Trump because as a veteran missing an eye, he was disgraceful when he not only insulted the military but also that disabled reporter. However he then said that he just didn't know about Hillary because of the emails and Ben Ghazi. The two staff agreed that this really was an election where there was no good choice. The guy then said he voted for Trump because he didn't want him to win and he's voted against the winner in every election since 2000 so he was hoping this would mean Trump lost (who knows how truthful he's being there). That story is totally anecdotal but Hillary was a bad candidate if in Northern Virginia people are saying she's comparable to Trump. Her various "scandals" were totally public for years and the Democrats went all in anyway then tried to explain how on paper they didn't matter and her resume would negate it. There was a lot of institutional inertia behind her so I'm not sure if anything could have been done but there should have been some frank discussions on how damaged their candidate was walking into 2016 which they clearly underestimated. VitalSigns posted:I think motivated reasoning is going to make it harder to convince people to believe Obama made Republicans end Medicare. I'm starting to think that Paul Ryan is a Randian cultist (rather than just a believer) and he's trying to force this beyond any reasonable sense.
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Nov 16, 2016 16:06
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that was benghazi and emails just proves the point that hillary's "qualifications" really didn't amount to much in the public eye
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I posted this in C-SPAM, but: can someone explain to me why free trade is a good thing? I keep hearing politicians harp on and on about it but it seems like something that's too abstract and disconnected to actually have much of an effect on people's lives. Why does everyone have such a boner for free trade?
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Nov 16, 2016 16:06
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VitalSigns posted:I think motivated reasoning is going to make it harder to convince people to believe Obama made Republicans end Medicare. It's not about cutting Medicare it's about giving vouchers that gently caress over the poor and line people's pockets.
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Nov 16, 2016 16:07
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:But this will free up billions of dollars each year for tax cuts and help people learn self-reliance and incentivize people to not be born poor or mortal; potentially unleashing billions more in unaccounted savings. A reduction of Medicaid would directly lead to higher drug prices as Pharmaceutical companies try to make up the difference. Right now I think Medicaid accounts for 12% of all purchased prescription drugs. Pharm companies are not going to want that drop in profits so I am pretty sure the costs will be turned over to consumers. FlamingLiberal posted:If they somehow manage to cut SS, Medicare and Medicaid you will have people dying in the streets like we haven't seen since the Great Depression. Good to know we will soon be a 3rd world kleptocracy. Its not just cuts to those programs it's cuts to SNAP as well. To the tune of 23 billion dollars.
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Nov 16, 2016 16:08
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Pollyanna posted:I posted this in C-SPAM, but: can someone explain to me why free trade is a good thing? I keep hearing politicians harp on and on about it but it seems like something that's too abstract and disconnected to actually have much of an effect on people's lives. Why does everyone have such a boner for free trade? Lots of money for their friends. Literally that's the only reason. Remember Bill Clinton lied and said NAFTA would protect the environment and retrain workers to new industries once all the jobs were gone. The exact opposite happened and income inequality ballooned to insane proportions. Also global warming is going to kill us all. God help you if you have children lol
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Nov 16, 2016 16:09
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Pollyanna posted:I posted this in C-SPAM, but: can someone explain to me why free trade is a good thing? I keep hearing politicians harp on and on about it but it seems like something that's too abstract and disconnected to actually have much of an effect on people's lives. Why does everyone have such a boner for free trade? Basically, interconnects the world's economy, grows the global economy, gets more people employed, puts more money in everybody's pockets. The problem: there is finite resources so where some get richer others get poorer. Specifically, cities get richer and rural gets poorer.
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Nov 16, 2016 16:09
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Pedro De Heredia posted:Clinton really wasn't a good candidate. So the question is whether she was uniquely bad and the bargain made with neoliberals is still a good one to make, or if neoliberalism is a poo poo ideology that no one cares for anymore and it's time to bring its chapter in history to a close. I believe the latter.
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Nov 16, 2016 16:09
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BarbarianElephant posted:What, I don't want a candidate just like Trump but a lefty, and that makes me a snob? You said Bernie wasn't like Trump, but the excitement from his supporters was. Meaning you didn't like people...what? Being excited about a candidate? gently caress, I'd love if the Democrat in 2020 can get the kind of excitement that Trump can get out of his idiot supporters. IT GETS PEOPLE OUT TO VOTE. Simply because people were excited and vocal does not mean they are racists, misogynists, and bigots like Trump supporters at his rallies largely were.
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Nov 16, 2016 16:10
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VitalSigns posted:
SImple, they hate the idea of government programs working and so they want to crush one of the most successful social programs of all time.
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Nov 16, 2016 16:10
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https://twitter.com/BraddJaffy/status/798738692705816576 Ladies and Gentlemen, Republicanism.
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Nov 16, 2016 16:11
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Mahoning posted:You said Bernie wasn't like Trump, but the excitement from his supporters was. Meaning you didn't like people...what? Being excited about a candidate? gently caress, I'd love if the Democrat in 2020 can get the kind of excitement that Trump can get out of his idiot supporters. IT GETS PEOPLE OUT TO VOTE. Simply because people were excited and vocal does not mean they are racists, misogynists, and bigots like Trump supporters at his rallies largely were. ahem, promising 5% growth for 4 years as well as all the other super pie in the sky with no actual methodology to implement is exactly like Trump and doesn't speak to anyone but the 50-150k earners that are always going to vote R.
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Nov 16, 2016 16:12
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Mahoning posted:You said Bernie wasn't like Trump, but the excitement from his supporters was. Meaning you didn't like people...what? Being excited about a candidate? gently caress, I'd love if the Democrat in 2020 can get the kind of excitement that Trump can get out of his idiot supporters. IT GETS PEOPLE OUT TO VOTE. Simply because people were excited and vocal does not mean they are racists, misogynists, and bigots like Trump supporters at his rallies largely were. No no no, we can't have big rallies and lots of excited voters. The rabble do not deserve to be excited about their lives.
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Nov 16, 2016 16:12
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FlamingLiberal posted:If they somehow manage to cut SS, Medicare and Medicaid you will have people dying in the streets like we haven't seen since the Great Depression. Good to know we will soon be a 3rd world kleptocracy. I'm hoping that Trump won't want to use his political capital on this since he didn't run on it and I don't think he's a Randian true believer. Guys like Bannon don't really care about this either. It's just Paul Ryan.
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Nov 16, 2016 16:13
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mcmagic posted:https://twitter.com/BraddJaffy/status/798738692705816576 Before reading this tweet, I thought republicans wanted to raise taxes. Thank you for this.
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Nov 16, 2016 16:14
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Submarine Sandpaper posted:ahem, promising 5% growth for 4 years as well as all the other super pie in the sky with no actual methodology to implement is exactly like Trump and doesn't speak to anyone but the 50-150k earners that are always going to vote R. Except that's not what he was arguing? He said he didn't think Bernie Sanders was like Trump.....but the Bernie Bros WERE like Trump supporters. Which.....I don't really get. They were excited? That's a......good thing.
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Nov 16, 2016 16:15
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Like it really seems like the Republicans are creating a perfect storm for a Great Depression / Recession http://business.time.com/2014/02/24/cutting-food-stamp-payments-to-the-poor-hurts-the-rich/ Here's how cutting SNAP affects businesses. If they cut SNAP by that much then we're definitely going to see these large chain stores under employ and in areas where there's a majority of people using Food Stamps you could see actual store closings. SNAP by the cost the US Government 74 Billion dollars last year. They are discussing a 23 Billion dollar cut to the program.
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Nov 16, 2016 16:15
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Tight Booty Shorts posted:No no no, we can't have big rallies and lots of excited voters. The rabble do not deserve to be excited about their lives. It is not enough that people simply vote for my candidate, they must be resigned to them.
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Nov 16, 2016 16:15
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Mahoning posted:You said Bernie wasn't like Trump, but the excitement from his supporters was. Meaning you didn't like people...what? Being excited about a candidate? gently caress, I'd love if the Democrat in 2020 can get the kind of excitement that Trump can get out of his idiot supporters. IT GETS PEOPLE OUT TO VOTE. Simply because people were excited and vocal does not mean they are racists, misogynists, and bigots like Trump supporters at his rallies largely were. I heard some shocking racist, misogynist things from his supporters back then. It seemed like they liked Sanders because he had a dick, not because of his policies. Not just "Clinton is a bitch" misogyny - but things said about women in general that made me think "What the hell are they seeing in Sanders' words that I am not that causes them to think he would agree with them? Am I missing some dogwhistles?"
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Nov 16, 2016 16:15
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Kilroy posted:Yeah the whole point of triangulating politicians like the Clintons and, to a lesser extent I guess Obama, is that they can win elections and they will include some of your poo poo in their platform. She did include a lot of progressive poo poo in her platform and I was optimistic some of that would get executed on, but alas she could not win the election. Political achievements need to be good enough to counteract biases/political attacks. Obamacare, for example, is simply not good enough / does not achieve enough to properly defend itself from threat of destruction.
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Nov 16, 2016 16:16
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Well the good news is all those Rust Belt voters/not-suppressed NC voters will be easy to flip D after four years of Trump unable to pick a cabinet
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Nov 16, 2016 16:16
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By the way, SNAP's the single greatest ROI of any government expenditure.
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Nov 16, 2016 16:17
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Hollismason posted:Like it really seems like the Republicans are creating a perfect storm for a Great Depression / Recession Yeah they have to know this stuff on some level so I don't know how they think this isn't going to bite them on the rear end. I guess they figure that they have these areas locked up but there's enough people that bounce back between the two parties because their lives aren't helped by either that this is going to screw them if they are caught holding the bag. It's not going to just screw over the poor, literally everyone is going to feel that unless you are some guy like Notch and totally disconnected from the economy living in a mansion by themselves. Eggplant Squire fucked around with this message at 16:20 on Nov 16, 2016 |
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Nov 16, 2016 16:17
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BarbarianElephant posted:I heard some shocking racist, misogynist things from his supporters back then. It seemed like they liked Sanders because he had a dick, not because of his policies. Not just "Clinton is a bitch" misogyny - but things said about women in general that made me think "What the hell are they seeing in Sanders' words that I am not that causes them to think he would agree with them? Am I missing some dogwhistles?" Clinton supporters' "if you don't vote for her it's because you hate women, you white male" us-vs-them framing resonated a lot with many white male leftists who really do hate women. People still go for 'u mad' style provocations really really easily. A Wizard of Goatse fucked around with this message at 16:21 on Nov 16, 2016 |
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Nov 16, 2016 16:18
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Without *anything* to feed the poor we will have to endure a lot of annoying unsightly things (sarcasm btw) like swollen bellied sad-eyed children begging on street corners.
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Nov 16, 2016 16:19
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Hollismason posted:Like it really seems like the Republicans are creating a perfect storm for a Great Depression / Recession Unemployed Single Mother who depends on SNAP to feed her children, on the 2020 Presidential Election: "I didn't go vote because I was so disgusted by both of the candidates"
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Nov 16, 2016 16:19
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disjoe posted:Well the good news is all those Rust Belt voters/not-suppressed NC voters will be easy to flip D after four years of Trump unable to pick a cabinet i sure hope so, or that we even have elections in 2020. was nearly having a panic attack again yesterday thinking about what a trump administration will be like, and i have to admit i even kinda wished the EC would go faithless to stop him and bring in clinton. i am honestly terrified about the future.
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Nov 16, 2016 16:19
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A Wizard of Goatse posted:Clinton supporters' "if you don't vote for her it's because you hate women, you white male" us-vs-them framing resonated a lot with many leftists who really do hate women. People still go for 'u mad' style provocations really really easily. I never once saw a single person saying that because she was a woman but more specifically because of what Donald Trump represents.
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Nov 16, 2016 16:20
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BarbarianElephant posted:I heard some shocking racist, misogynist things from his supporters back then. It seemed like they liked Sanders because he had a dick, not because of his policies. Not just "Clinton is a bitch" misogyny - but things said about women in general that made me think "What the hell are they seeing in Sanders' words that I am not that causes them to think he would agree with them? Am I missing some dogwhistles?" I've heard some shocking racist things from Hillary and her supporters as well. Ergo they are just like trump.
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Nov 16, 2016 16:21
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socialsecurity posted:I never once saw a single person saying that because she was a woman but more specifically because of what Donald Trump represents. You missed a significant portion of the primary, then. What is it you think the whole "Bernie bros" thing was about? The PUMAs in 2008? It's always been Clinton's go-to strategy for defining her support. A lot of dudes felt personally attacked by the social justice movement going in and when the Lena Dunham set straight up personally attacked them as purported representatives of it they started going publicly apeshit about feminism and microaggressions and sided against her, now the Clinton surrogates could point to them as proof that all opposition to Clinton was motivated by bigotry. A Wizard of Goatse fucked around with this message at 16:30 on Nov 16, 2016 |
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Nov 16, 2016 16:22
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BarbarianElephant posted:Without *anything* to feed the poor we will have to endure a lot of annoying unsightly things (sarcasm btw) like swollen bellied sad-eyed children begging on street corners. but I thought rural poor people should be destroyed by the hegemony of free trade 
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Nov 16, 2016 16:23
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socialsecurity posted:I never once saw a single person saying that because she was a woman but more specifically because of what Donald Trump represents. Clinton's main strategy was trying to point out how much Trump is human scum and that his victory would empower the absolute worst of America. Unfortunately, it turns out that the worst of America has quite a bit more sway that we ever thought.
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Nov 16, 2016 16:23
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socialsecurity posted:I never once saw a single person saying that because she was a woman but more specifically because of what Donald Trump represents. There was definitely a bit of "vote for the first female president" rah-rahing which seemed mostly like vanity on Clinton's part.
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Nov 16, 2016 16:23
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disjoe posted:Unemployed Single Mother who depends on SNAP to feed her children, on the 2020 Presidential Election: "I didn't go vote because I was so disgusted by both of the candidates" Your elitism is showing
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Nov 16, 2016 16:24
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BarbarianElephant posted:There was definitely a bit of "vote for the first female president" rah-rahing which seemed mostly like vanity on Clinton's part. A bit of it?
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Nov 16, 2016 16:25
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Geostomp posted:Clinton's main strategy was trying to point out how much Trump is human scum and that his victory would empower the absolute worst of America. Unfortunately, it turns out that the worst of America has quite a bit more sway that we ever thought. Purely negative campaigns almost never work. They tried that in the midterms by saying how lovely the republicans are and vote democrats to keep them out and they got destroyed there to.
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Nov 16, 2016 16:28
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