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To harp on education a little more, if we didn't sanitize history in middle and high schools and actually taught people true history (with all the warts and bullshit it involves) we may help people as a whole avoid making the same goddamn mistakes. One of my foundational experiences was finding out how much FDR, who was and continues to be my hero, is seriously sanitized by high school history in my area. He did a whole lot of shady poo poo to save the country and it's never talked about that hard choices have to be made that people get pissed off about. History is messy as gently caress and we need to learn those lessons in school and early so they stick. There's no point in sheltering kids from this fundamental truth.
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Nov 16, 2016 21:42
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Xelkelvos posted:I have that book, and while the main ideas are right, some of the details are garbage like the East Asian discovery of the Americas being a legitimate theory that's being ignored rather than some fringe thing. Haven't read it in a while though. Uh which one is that particularly? I am pretty sure the first people to discover America coming over from Asia and it's not a particularly controversial theory.
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Nov 16, 2016 21:43
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Feeling pretty good about the direction the dems are going in. Real shame that it took the specter of orange apocalypse to get them moving in this direction but I'll take it over them not changing.
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Nov 16, 2016 21:43
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The Puppet Master posted:it already did and it is called 2016 You are definitely right but I"m afraid that poo poo's gonna get even worse unless we do something about it
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Nov 16, 2016 21:44
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Atrocious Joe posted:Schumer is not going to save us 
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Nov 16, 2016 21:44
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The Puppet Master posted:we really need to accept the reality that automation is going to render most jobs obsolete and most working hours as unnecessary i hope to live long enough to see the rich dragged screaming from their homes and hung from the nearest streetpoles
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Nov 16, 2016 21:44
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Nov 16, 2016 21:45
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The Puppet Master posted:we really need to accept the reality that automation is going to render most jobs obsolete and most working hours as unnecessary We just need that squabbling over jobs at the low-income/low-skill level to extend into higher incomes to a point where even executive experience wouldn't amount to poo poo. Only then might we see a break towards a UBI or a MINcome. Kinda like how people care about heroin addiction when it started visibly affecting white people and the middle class.
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Nov 16, 2016 21:46
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Lord of Pie posted:My dorkass governor is trying to push computer programming super hard in high schools like that will magically make businesses relocate to loving Arkansas. Quiet, moran. You wanna scare away all that SV speculative capital?
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Nov 16, 2016 21:46
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The Puppet Master posted:Unironically this This seems like it would be a disaster by itself without other changes, considering individual purchasing power is already so low compared to what it used to be (largely driven by the rapid rise in price of fundamentals like food, housing, and required education) and how much pressure there already is to automate. GlyphGryph has issued a correction as of 21:50 on Nov 16, 2016 |
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Nov 16, 2016 21:46
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They seem like they're moving in the right direction but I'll remain skeptical until they start taking local politics seriously again. I'm not even that mad about the presidential race. Them treating the White House like the Alamo was inevitably going to blow up in their face. What really pisses me off is them ceding all the state legislatures and governorships in the idiotic pursuit of holding the WH forever, because those don't matter right?
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Nov 16, 2016 21:48
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Atrocious Joe posted:Schumer is not going to save us I don't think there's a single person on Earth that believes he will.  He can play a valuable role in loving with Trump and the GOP though.
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Nov 16, 2016 21:48
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So what is Bernie going to tell us in his speech tonight? How we all collectively failed him and don't deserve his pity?
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Nov 16, 2016 21:49
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The Puppet Master posted:Another is to face to reality that initiatives like Universal Basic Income will be a necessity When I have time I think I will make an effort thread about left accelerationism (which is about using current political, institutional, cultural, and technological platforms to move beyond capitalism), full automation, the necessity of UBI, and post-work realities.
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Nov 16, 2016 21:50
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GlyphGryph posted:Uh which one is that particularly? I am pretty sure the first people to discover America coming over from Asia and it's not a particularly controversial theory. Not regarding the land migration across the Bering, but the book references stuff from Gavin Menzies and another about Polynesian contact based on myths about meeting that are very similar.
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Nov 16, 2016 21:50
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it would be cool if bernie walked out with hillary's head imo
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Nov 16, 2016 21:50
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Fidel Castronaut posted:Feeling pretty good about the direction the dems are going in. Real shame that it took the specter of orange apocalypse to get them moving in this direction but I'll take it over them not changing. Making Bernie do outreach and Keith Ellison the likely chair is good and all, but it won't address the ideological & organizational problems underpinning the way the Democratic party operates. We still need a massive reorganization, new staff, new candidates who actually believe in the populist direction the party needs to go. We also need rank & file to quit accepting as a necessity, the corruption which hamstrung the DNC & Clinton's campaign or the tendency to excuse it away as a "nothingburger."
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Nov 16, 2016 21:51
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The Puppet Master posted:we really need to accept the reality that automation is going to render most jobs obsolete and most working hours as unnecessary I prefer UBI to more bullshit jobs, because UBI is elegant and efficient. "You exist, here's your money to keep existing" versus "we need to keep making up bullshit jobs and pretending they're valuable." Also UBI might help knock some sense into the mindless exaltation of work and suffering too. Maybe silicon valley might stop bragplaining about 100 hour workweeks then which I think is a good thing for all of us because good god nobody wants to hear those guys.
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Nov 16, 2016 21:51
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Clearly what we really need to push for is more people to get educated in and then become involved in politics. Civic education focused on the expectation that a significant number of us should at least be trying our hand at it, instead of sending all our best to other fields and leaving us with the politicians we often have to choose from instead.
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Nov 16, 2016 21:52
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Instant Sunrise posted:also with manufacturing, a lot of it has been moved to right to work states in the south and out of the rust belt. speaking of right to work, one of the first items on the new-new democrats agenda should be to abolish that poo poo nation wide
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Nov 16, 2016 21:54
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MJ12 posted:I prefer UBI to more bullshit jobs, because UBI is elegant and efficient. "You exist, here's your money to keep existing" versus "we need to keep making up bullshit jobs and pretending they're valuable." Also UBI might help knock some sense into the mindless exaltation of work and suffering too. There's a lot of poo poo we absolutely need production capacity for that we aren't doing and absolutely need to be doing though. A dedicated, government-led Carbon Capture industry could be an incredible make-work program with actual real benefits for the planet as a whole. It would be expensive, but when you're spending the money employing Americans to make things better it's not exactly wasted money, right?
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Nov 16, 2016 21:54
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GlyphGryph posted:There's a lot of poo poo we absolutely need production capacity for that we aren't doing and absolutely need to be doing though. A dedicated, government-led Carbon Capture industry could be an incredible make-work program with actual real benefits for the planet as a whole. Sure. But there's a difference between 'jobs we need to pay people to do because they need to be done and we aren't doing them' and 'jobs for the sake of employment.'
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Nov 16, 2016 21:55
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Karl Barks posted:it would be cool if bernie walked out with hillary's head imo IMO nothing will change until we sacrifice DWS and Dean upon the progressives' altar, as the roads turn red with the blood of hedge fund managers and loan underwriters, as we hear the screams in the night, calling out for justice and Harambe.
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Nov 16, 2016 21:56
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Chuck Schumer will gleefully jump aboard for full Communism if he thinks that is where the political winds are blowing. As said above, the meaning of his stance doesn't really have anything to do with him specifically but rather that the party seems to understand that the election represents the end of the Clinton democrats .
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Nov 16, 2016 21:56
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zen death robot posted:I didn't go to college lol IT is one of the final bastions of well paying jobs that are: -In demand -Dosen't require a college education -Pays well Which is probably why it is full of Libertarians.
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Nov 16, 2016 21:56
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GlyphGryph posted:There's a lot of poo poo we absolutely need production capacity for that we aren't doing and absolutely need to be doing though. A dedicated, government-led Carbon Capture industry could be an incredible make-work program with actual real benefits for the planet as a whole. We already do all sorts of things through political economy that are of no real economic benefit whatsoever. Defense manufacturing is mostly wasted for instance, because you can't repurpose an Abrams or an F-15 for civilian use. We do it because it's strategically necessary, so why not also seek to convert the energy grid to renewables or control pollution? The assumption that we can't do anything which won't generate a profit is killing us.
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Nov 16, 2016 21:57
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I was looking up that Louis CK comment from Conan a couple of weeks before the election and drat, I hadn't realized how hard in the tank he was for Clinton. There's a bunch of stuff out there from throughout the election season. But I'll stick to the one I was looking for https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MFOkBnYGfIM Louis CK posted:"To me, it's really exciting to have the first mother in the White House," C.K. said. "It's not about the first woman, it's about the first mom." "What is it about a mom?" Conan asked. "Because a mother, she's got it," C.K. said. "A mother just does it. She feeds you and teaches you, she protects you, she takes care of poo poo. A father — we've had 240 years of fathers," he said. "And fathers are okay — I'm a father, you're a dad, you're a dad. A great father can give a kid 40 percent of his needs, tops." Any lousy mother, he added, "like just a not-even-trying mother, 200 percent." "Vote for Hillary if you know what's best" is the mindset that gave us Trump. Also I'm not an MRA at all but that father/mother comment is pretty gross too.
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Nov 16, 2016 21:58
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MJ12 posted:Maybe silicon valley might stop bragplaining about 100 hour workweeks then which I think is a good thing for all of us because good god nobody wants to hear those guys. There are some contemporary leftist philosopher I really admire who are thinking how to redefine the culture around work. That future society absolutely needs to have a different approach towards labor, hours of work, work ethic, and productivity in order to adapt to the coming automation revolution. This kind of thinking or rethink is actually the basis of my work at the moment. There was this great tweet of states that have Truck Drivers as their #1 job combined with fact that automated trucking is just around the bend. Does anyone have that on hand?
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Nov 16, 2016 21:58
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Nov 16, 2016 21:59
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GlyphGryph posted:There's a lot of poo poo we absolutely need production capacity for that we aren't doing and absolutely need to be doing though. A dedicated, government-led Carbon Capture industry could be an incredible make-work program with actual real benefits for the planet as a whole. To be fair, we could just transfer a lot of the military manufacturing jobs to alternative products for the civil good rather than for tanks that wont be deployed or aircraft that wont see flight and such, but lol Military-Indsutrial complex
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Nov 16, 2016 21:59
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GlyphGryph posted:There's a lot of poo poo we absolutely need production capacity for that we aren't doing and absolutely need to be doing though. A dedicated, government-led Carbon Capture industry could be an incredible make-work program with actual real benefits for the planet as a whole. This, and also some kind of return of the CCC. Our infrastructure gets Ds and Fs across the board by civil engineering surveys. Like, hundreds if not thousands of bridges are supposed to start crumbling in the next few decades iirc. And don't get me started on the potholes folks! 
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Nov 16, 2016 21:59
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GlyphGryph posted:Clearly what we really need to push for is more people to get educated in and then become involved in politics. posts like this make me want to quit what i do and get into politics but im prob gonna at least wait until i (almost certainly) move next fall
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Nov 16, 2016 22:00
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Thoguh posted:I was looking up that Louis CK comment from Conan a couple of weeks before the election and drat, I hadn't realized how hard in the tank he was for Clinton. There's a bunch of stuff out there from throughout the election season. But I'll stick to the one I was looking for If you ever type the words 'I'm not an MRA but', I'd suggest just deleting your post instead.
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Nov 16, 2016 22:01
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Thoguh posted:Also I'm not an MRA at all but that father/mother comment is pretty gross too. It's biotruths as feminism. Mothers are just, you know, naturally not fathers.
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Nov 16, 2016 22:01
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also is the current thread title a joke based on The Aristocrats! because that's what it reads as
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Nov 16, 2016 22:01
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Captain_Maclaine posted:No, though he came close and if he hadn't blown off an interview might have gotten in after all. 
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Nov 16, 2016 22:02
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The Puppet Master posted:There are some contemporary leftist philosophers I really admire who are thinking how to redefine the culture around work. That future society absolutely needs to have a different approach towards labor, hours of work, work ethic, and productivity in order to adapt to the coming automation revolution. This kind of thinking or rethink is actually the basis of my work at the moment. found it https://twitter.com/griph/status/796539192721506304
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Nov 16, 2016 22:02
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Sheng-ji Yang posted:
Good point.
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Nov 16, 2016 22:02
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i still think about all those weird rear end emails from the DNC that were just people telling each other to gently caress off, and get hosed, etc. legit all those people are human garbage just on a personal level
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Nov 16, 2016 22:02
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Gringostar posted:speaking of right to work, one of the first items on the new-new democrats agenda should be to abolish that poo poo nation wide just to be clear, you mean "right to work" as in laws banning union shops, not "right to work" as in "actually at-will employment but gets confused with right to work."
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Nov 16, 2016 22:03
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