|
The DNC could also ignore white people and try to undo voter suppression state-by-state.
|
#
?
Nov 16, 2016 13:01
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 11, 2024 06:29 |
|
|
visceril posted:The DNC could also ignore white people and try to undo voter suppression state-by-state. No but you see the DNC ignored rural white voters stuck in the loving 50s and we must hyper focus on them for what loving ever reason.
|
|
#
?
Nov 16, 2016 13:12
|
|
|
Reminder: number of times "voter suppression" or "Shelby County v Holder" has been mentioned on TV news since June: 0 Only articles referencing those two things that I could find online were some blog aggregator sites I've never heard of, and some bullshit Vox article that pretends that voter suppression wasn't a problem in the rust belt outside of Wisconsin and wouldn't have flipped the election. They only consider voter suppression to be laws passed after Shelby Co. FYI voter suppression is arbitrarily limiting early voting, allocating volunteers and resources in an unfair way, blocking new laws that would ease voting, as well as outright Jim Crow voter ID poll taxes. Vox is only considering the latter in their dumbass article that I'm not even gonna link because they don't deserve the page views visceril fucked around with this message at 13:19 on Nov 16, 2016 |
|
#
?
Nov 16, 2016 13:15
|
|
|
visceril posted:The DNC could also ignore white people and try to undo voter suppression state-by-state. Don't they need white people for that? Like, if only minorities vote for you then you won't get elected and good luck getting anything done then. Don't get me wrong, I'd be happy if we could just ignore white voters, since they can't stop making GBS threads the bed, but for now I thinl we need them. However I do agree with the 2nd point, but they are already working to undo votenr suppression,aren't they?
|
|
#
?
Nov 16, 2016 13:42
|
|
|
McCloud posted:Don't they need white people for that? Like, if only minorities vote for you then you won't get elected and good luck getting anything done then. Don't get me wrong, I'd be happy if we could just ignore white voters, since they can't stop making GBS threads the bed, but for now I thinl we need them. Republicans will never support a fair election because they can only win rigged elections--they haven't won an election fair and square since Eisenhower. Nixon, Reagan, W, and Trump won because of treason and fraud, and Ford and HW were one-termers that ride the coat tails of their treasonous predecessors into office. There is no point in reaching out to an establishment republican politician. Please point me to the DNC's efforts because it feels an awful lot like they've accepted poll taxes and arbitrary restrictions on poor people and POC as the new normal
|
|
#
?
Nov 16, 2016 14:01
|
|
|
McCloud posted:The problem for the DNC now is that they have to convince the moderate white person why the GOP is so terrible without alienating them. If you call them out for being spineless pussies they get all pissy and refuse to vote for you, so it feels as if they are going to have to tip toe around the subject and instead argue that the GOPs policies are bad for the white middle/lower class as well, but it's so frustrating that the GOPs racism is being tolerated to such a degree. 
|
|
#
?
Nov 16, 2016 14:03
|
|
|
I know goons have strong public radio opinions, so here's something: Joshua Johnson, a black man who previously hosted a series on race in America, is taking over the Diane Rehm Show after she retires. It's being renamed 1A, I assume after the studio in which it's recorded, but for some reason no story is talking about the name, which seems really dumb to me.
|
|
#
?
Nov 16, 2016 16:23
|
|
|
This election does show that to a significant number of American white people, life's just not worth living without the full benefits of white privilege.
|
|
#
?
Nov 16, 2016 16:29
|
|
|
If there's anyone reading who feels like they would benefit from or be interested in a primer on how the black struggle in America has developed between the Civil Rights Act and today, PBS has a four hour two-part series called Black America Since MLK that just aired the first half. It goes into Stokely Carmichael and the origin of the Black Panthers, the impact of white flight and responses like busing, the increased prominence in America of distinctly Black forms of appearance and expression through art, and a lot more. I feel like a lot of American civil rights education below the college level focuses strongly, almost exclusively on MLK and the campaign to overturn Jim Crow in the South with Malcolm X mentioned as an afterthought - or at least mine did. For anyone in a similar position, this may help give more detail to what the zeitgeist was like and how the struggle developed in the decades between then and now - particularly in cities and areas outside the South.
|
|
#
?
Nov 16, 2016 17:39
|
|
|
Tiny Brontosaurus posted:I had the exact same thing happen growing up. Every teacher I had in elementary school wanted to drug me up, to the point of threatening my parents with expulsion if they didn't. I know my "angry black girl" reputation here and people's latent just-world reflexive assumption that any bad thing that happens to someone must at least be a little deserved has everyone reading this imagining what a terror I must have been in class, but I was raised by very strict parents and never would have dreamed of acting up in class or talking back to a teacher. The terrible behavior disorder my teachers wanted to medicate out of me was simply that I finished my class reading early and would read my own book or draw until the rest of the class was finished. Over and over again teachers would interpret this as me "not doing my work," even though I and my parents kept pointing out that it was because my work was finished. I also got labeled a cheater by default, and had to take most of my tests out in the hallway instead of with the class. More than once a teacher threatened me with detention for "disrupting the class" when I walked in to turn in my finished test before the white kids were done, so I learned to just sit and stare at the wall until the end of the period every time there was a test. Doing anything to entertain myself like reading or even doing other homework would have been interpreted as "cheating" by any passing teachers and/or snitchy white kids. All this snowballed into a thing where, much like here with the mods, my reputation as a "troublemaker" earned me harsher punishments and got me singled out for discipline frequently. Negromancer posted:
Late, but I just want to say I greatly appreciate you two. I went through a lot of this stuff myself. Particularly the bolded was my exact experience. The imporant difference was that though I had serious issues with the school board, leading to being diagnosed with all manner of awful things by a school psychiatrist I never met, I never was accused of cheating, "gang activity," being "too smart" or any other horrible racist crap they said to you. Were I black, instead of suspension when I finally snapped in middle school and beat a bully (who was given free reign by the faculty) with a chair, I have no doubt I'd have been expelled and sent to Juvie.
|
|
#
?
Nov 16, 2016 17:58
|
|
|
there wolf posted:Did anyone else learn about sickle cell in school as part of basic genetics? I guess our textbook writers thought it was more interesting than bean flowers and cleft chins. Apparently all states in the USA screen for it at birth now, which would mean that anyone born since that program started (I guess the last 15-20 years depending on the state) should know their carrier status. So within 10-20 years, most people thinking about having kids should be able to make an informed choice. https://www.cdc.gov/ncbddd/newbornscreening/ http://www.babysfirsttest.org/newborn-screening/states I'd be curious to know how this plays out in practice, though.
|
|
#
?
Nov 16, 2016 19:04
|
|
|
Tiny Brontosaurus posted:The terrible behavior disorder my teachers wanted to medicate out of me was simply that I finished my class reading early and would read my own book or draw until the rest of the class was finished. Over and over again teachers would interpret this as me "not doing my work," This type of thing is what led to me getting screened. They were doing phonics and I had already been reading for years at that point. I figured out the phonics work sheets weren't ever graded. So off to the Atari in the class room to play burger time during phonics work sheets. This is something teachers are supposed to be trained to identify. Here's the problem, three standard deviations from the mean. Gifted / Talented kids are rare, ADHD isn't. So many / most gifted kids have this experience because most of the time the kid in question actually is just ADHD. The other thing is gifted / talented kids are a pain in rear end. It is exhausting keeping them interested and engaged. They demand attention and full interaction. This is why so many parents fight so hard, they know what their child is and desperately need all the help they can get.
|
|
#
?
Nov 16, 2016 19:45
|
|
|
there wolf posted:Did anyone else learn about sickle cell in school as part of basic genetics? I guess our textbook writers thought it was more interesting than bean flowers and cleft chins. I did. It's basically a model for genetic diseases. I chose to write a paper back in college about how I thought genetic research was biased against poc and was pleasantly surprised about how much research had been done into Sickle Cell in the 20th C. Needless to say, my hypothesis was way wrong. For the second part, I am aware of programs that perform genetic screens on parents but the big hinderance in black communities seems to be a reluctance to believe that 2 carriers can have a child with sickle cell. Sickle cell is well known and people understand the ramifications, they just believe that they won't have a child with it. http://www.nature.com/gim/journal/v9/n5/full/gim200751a.html Gustafson et al. posted:Conclusion: African American women have a relatively high belief of the severity of sickle cell disease and benefits of genetic counseling but frequently do not appear to believe that they are at risk of having a child with the disease. This should be taken into account in the design of educational and counseling strategies. In comparison, I would posit that Jewish communities have taken Tay-Sachs more seriously because there's a higher risk of death in infancy due to Tay-Sachs as well as the Holocaust. Sorry about the science derail.
|
|
#
?
Nov 16, 2016 19:57
|
|
|
BrandorKP posted:This type of thing is what led to me getting screened. They were doing phonics and I had already been reading for years at that point. I figured out the phonics work sheets weren't ever graded. So off to the Atari in the class room to play burger time during phonics work sheets. This is something teachers are supposed to be trained to identify. Here's the problem, three standard deviations from the mean. Gifted / Talented kids are rare, ADHD isn't. So many / most gifted kids have this experience because most of the time the kid in question actually is just ADHD. My experience was way different from the black people in the thread, and was a hell of a lot more respectful of my ability and my parents being people with valid input. It was much more along the lines of "you might want to get little x tested". And I actually do have serious attention issues. There seems to be a lot more judgement of non-conformity and non-compliance in a negative light in any of their accounts.
|
|
#
?
Nov 16, 2016 20:09
|
|
|
BrandorKP posted:This type of thing is what led to me getting screened. They were doing phonics and I had already been reading for years at that point. I figured out the phonics work sheets weren't ever graded. So off to the Atari in the class room to play burger time during phonics work sheets. This is something teachers are supposed to be trained to identify. Here's the problem, three standard deviations from the mean. Gifted / Talented kids are rare, ADHD isn't. So many / most gifted kids have this experience because most of the time the kid in question actually is just ADHD. The thing is, I honestly don't believe a lot of children have ADHD most of the time. I just think they've figured out that it's bullshit and they already know what is being taught, and it doesn't hold their attention. If I was in an art history class right now, you'd think I'd have attention issues, but the simpler answer is that I just don't give a gently caress about the topic. I think a lot of kids don't give a gently caress about certain things, and honestly once they reach a certain baseline, we should funnel kids into where their natural talents and interests are. If someone would have put a computer in my hands and taught me about programming and whatnot as a kid, I'm sure I'd be a millionaire right now. Guaranteed. Hell if astrophysics paid worth a poo poo compared to the amount of education you have to put in, I'd do that poo poo right now.
|
|
#
?
Nov 16, 2016 20:19
|
|
|
What class were you growing up? How educated were your parents? What was the education level and class of the area you lived in? Edit: asking xthetenth Bar Ran Dun fucked around with this message at 21:22 on Nov 16, 2016 |
|
#
?
Nov 16, 2016 20:23
|
|
|
negromancer posted:The thing is, I honestly don't believe a lot of children have ADHD most of the time. I just think they've figured out that it's bullshit and they already know what is being taught, and it doesn't hold their attention. If I was in an art history class right now, you'd think I'd have attention issues, but the simpler answer is that I just don't give a gently caress about the topic. I think a lot of kids don't give a gently caress about certain things, and honestly once they reach a certain baseline, we should funnel kids into where their natural talents and interests are. I love computers and programming and I still can't and couldn't see things through without a lot of work (more often a deadline and a fuckload of stress hormones) or medication and still serious effort. And not difficult poo poo, if it's actually challenging I can't keep my mind on track for more than five minutes if I'm lucky. It was the same deal back in school, I tried doing homework in class, and I just couldn't. I don't think all of it is conditioning. It's probably overprescribed as hell but it is an actual thing for some people, although there's a lot of possible causes for the behaviors that show signs of it, and that's fertile ground for racial bias.
|
|
#
?
Nov 16, 2016 20:33
|
|
|
negromancer posted:The thing is, I honestly don't believe a lot of children have ADHD most of the time. I just think they've figured out that it's bullshit and they already know what is being taught, and it doesn't hold their attention. If I was in an art history class right now, you'd think I'd have attention issues, but the simpler answer is that I just don't give a gently caress about the topic. I think a lot of kids don't give a gently caress about certain things, and honestly once they reach a certain baseline, we should funnel kids into where their natural talents and interests are. Anecdotal I know, but in Europe there isn't anywhere near the level of ADD/ADHD diagnosis there seems to be in the states. I didn't know a single person who was diagnosed with it at my pretty big school and didn't know anyone on Ritalin or anything like that. The idea of a teacher refusing to teach a child until they are drugged up is pretty  to me. At the same time, all we hear about schools in the US is that they are overcrowded and forced to teach to the test, relying on rote memorisation. I certainly think for whatever reason you're right about ADHD being overdiagnosed due to bored kids.
|
|
#
?
Nov 16, 2016 20:35
|
|
|
I thought it was the white kids that were grossly over diagnosed by their parents as a smokescreen to hide the shame that these white kids, for all their role models, support, and safety, might just be lazy and dumb. Then the parents get to insist on all these accommodations for their golden child that conveniently only the 'struggling white kid' seems to get. Negromancer's description of how much mediocrity exists in white employees of certain fields seems to lend weight to this possibility.
|
|
#
?
Nov 16, 2016 20:38
|
|
|
Art is good and important. Not least it shapes the majority's understanding of minorities. It's one of the most powerful tools we have to combat oppression.
|
|
#
?
Nov 16, 2016 20:42
|
|
|
Tiny Brontosaurus posted:Art is good and important. Not least it shapes the majority's understanding of minorities. It's one of the most powerful tools we have to combat oppression. And it's one of the mechanisms by which society reinforces its beliefs if not countered.
|
|
#
?
Nov 16, 2016 20:44
|
|
|
Panfilo posted:I thought it was the white kids that were grossly over diagnosed by their parents as a smokescreen to hide the shame that these white kids, for all their role models, support, and safety, might just be lazy and dumb. Then the parents get to insist on all these accommodations for their golden child that conveniently only the 'struggling white kid' seems to get. A lot of it depends on the district and the demographics. Like, the area where I went through Elementary school was literally nothing but white kids, so the kids that got put on Ritalin (this was in the 1980s, when it happened to me) were the kids that were lower-income that didn't behave well once they got bored with the rote memorization assignments. The progression seems to go: Any minorities first, then white kids from lower income families, then anyone leftover that didn't "behave". Adjust as needed to meet some mysterious medication sales quota if not enough kids in the primary target area are present. I guess if you were the rare case that actually needed Ritalin it benefited you, but in my case it hosed me up until my family moved to another district and I ended up in a school that didn't push it so hard. This was also back when, if you were left-handed, you were taught to do everything right-handed anyway and actually had points taken off of writing assignments if you did them left-handed (because apparently being left-handed back in the 1980s was like, I don't know, being devil-possessed or something). So schools literally fight to enforce "normalized" behaviors on students. Everyone Do What Your Told or whatever.
|
|
#
?
Nov 16, 2016 20:55
|
|
|
biracial bear for uncut posted:This was also back when, if you were left-handed, you were taught to do everything right-handed anyway and actually had points taken off of writing assignments if you did them left-handed (because apparently being left-handed back in the 1980s was like, I don't know, being devil-possessed or something). Holy poo poo they were doing that in the eighties?
|
|
#
?
Nov 16, 2016 21:02
|
|
|
Tiny Brontosaurus posted:Holy poo poo they were doing that in the eighties?
|
|
#
?
Nov 16, 2016 21:07
|
|
|
Tiny Brontosaurus posted:Holy poo poo they were doing that in the eighties? Yeah, that's a surprise to me too. I entered school in 1993 (coastal rural NC) and they definitely let the left-handed kids write naturally. I remember the diagrams even showing how to position the paper differently on the desk depending on handedness.
|
|
#
?
Nov 16, 2016 21:08
|
|
|
Tiny Brontosaurus posted:Holy poo poo they were doing that in the eighties? It took until the mid-70 for the worst excesses of electroshock therapy to fall out of favor. Psychiatry and developmental psychology were focused on creating fully controllable perfect little clone children for a long-rear end time.
|
|
#
?
Nov 16, 2016 21:08
|
|
|
Tiny Brontosaurus posted:Holy poo poo they were doing that in the eighties? Hell there was a case in Oklahoma like, last year.
|
|
#
?
Nov 16, 2016 21:09
|
|
|
Tiny Brontosaurus posted:Holy poo poo they were doing that in the eighties? Yep. I was/am naturally left-hand dominant, but whenever I do any hand-writing I have to do it with my right hand because that's how I was taught to do it. I know it's a huge thing for a lot of people and there is this odd group of people that hate left-handed people for whatever reason, but in my case it ended up being this weird off-balance ambidextrous thing. EDIT: I didn't get the surprise at first. FactsAreUseless posted:American education reforms are pretty patchwork. A bunch of states still allow corporal punishment. States' rights! State of Georgia 1980s system here. Things are/were hosed up for a very long time. Corporal punishment was still a thing in the district where I went to high school right up to 1999 and is still a thing as far as I'm aware. Hell, there was official/unofficial bullying by my teachers because I was a kid growing up in a household where my parents got divorced (same district as the Ritalin district I went to). poo poo like turning a blind eye to the kids that bullied me over it and actual loving school counselors saying poo poo like "You shouldn't be surprised that the kids here hate you, your own mother doesn't love you" (she left me with my dad when she bailed and later got an official divorce). The thing that terrifies me when I think about it is how much loving worse my life would be if I wasn't white. Some Pinko Commie fucked around with this message at 21:18 on Nov 16, 2016 |
|
#
?
Nov 16, 2016 21:09
|
|
|
negromancer posted:The thing is, I honestly don't believe a lot of children have ADHD most of the time. I just think they've figured out that it's bullshit and they already know what is being taught, and it doesn't hold their attention. If I was in an art history class right now, you'd think I'd have attention issues, but the simpler answer is that I just don't give a gently caress about the topic. I think a lot of kids don't give a gently caress about certain things, and honestly once they reach a certain baseline, we should funnel kids into where their natural talents and interests are. That's a whole other can of worms, there is a lot of writing about our educational system being based on Prussian educational ideas to make kids into good soldiers . Here they used those Prussian ideas but structured it to produce factory workers. I would agree with you. Kids arent wrong to have issues with the system.
|
|
#
?
Nov 16, 2016 21:28
|
|
|
I haven't spent much time in corporations, but if I had a nickel for every dumbshit white man who has a job because his daddy's the boss of a small company, and he makes more than you, and he's only there half the time, and gently caress you.
|
|
#
?
Nov 16, 2016 21:38
|
|
|
BrandorKP posted:That's a whole other can of worms, there is a lot of writing about our educational system being based on Prussian educational ideas to make kids into good soldiers . Here they used those Prussian ideas but structured it to produce factory workers. I would agree with you. Kids arent wrong to have issues with the system. By good soldiers you mean making them into obedient patriotic citizens and only being taught the basics so they can then be given things to understand? Like every time a teacher tries to teach children something outside of the typical American Judeo-Christian experience it gets labeled as subversive and you start hearing parents saying that teachers should teach the kids reading, writing, and arithmetic?
|
|
#
?
Nov 16, 2016 22:14
|
|
|
It might be good to move the education chat to its own thread. It's definitely something that can sustain a thread on its own.
|
|
#
?
Nov 16, 2016 22:30
|
|
|
I assume discussion of the black experience in education will not be welcome outside of the two (2) permitted negrozones.
|
|
#
?
Nov 16, 2016 22:43
|
|
|
FactsAreUseless posted:It might be good to move the education chat to its own thread. It's definitely something that can sustain a thread on its own. I dunno this sounds like forced bussing. Why don't you just make the thread better?
|
|
#
?
Nov 16, 2016 22:53
|
|
|
Tiny Brontosaurus posted:Holy poo poo they were doing that in the eighties? I met teachers in the 2000s who still didn't believe left handed people were anything other than "doing it for attention".
|
|
#
?
Nov 16, 2016 23:01
|
|
|
HorseLord posted:I met teachers in the 2000s who still didn't believe left handed people were anything other than "doing it for attention". I sincerely believe that phrase accounts for 90% of the lovely things people do to one another.
|
|
#
?
Nov 16, 2016 23:03
|
|
|
blackguy32 posted:The thing I fear is that white people have just learned all the wrong lessons from this. I want them to realize how strong white supremacy is, but all people seem to be doing is doubling down on Democratic party internal politics, which I guess helps, but doesn't really get at the root of the problem. This has been super frustrating, too. We already have the weird knock-on effect of Trump posters just being outwardly lovely versus buying stealth titles. They're already telling a known SA Muslim that his fears aren't valid and should gently caress off from posting right when articles about The Database are coming out today I don't want SA getting another hosed up early 2000's whitewash. Those were bad years here.
|
|
#
?
Nov 16, 2016 23:12
|
|
|
HorseLord posted:I met teachers in the 2000s who still didn't believe left handed people were anything other than "doing it for attention". Btw this happened to me. Was forced into right-handed motions in school even though I was using both hands. I am still salty - I know a dude who is ambidextrous and does simultaneous sketching and painting.
|
|
#
?
Nov 16, 2016 23:15
|
|
|
Tiny Brontosaurus posted:Art is good and important. Not least it shapes the majority's understanding of minorities. It's one of the most powerful tools we have to combat oppression. Yeah, but that's art. Art History is one of those subjects that is dull as dishwater to anyone without a knack for rote memorization because you need to know so many names and dates, and with even less of the story aspect you get with regular history.
|
|
#
?
Nov 16, 2016 23:15
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 11, 2024 06:29 |
|
|
there wolf posted:Yeah, but that's art. Art History is one of those subjects that is dull as dishwater to anyone without a knack for rote memorization because you need to know so many names and dates, and with even less of the story aspect you get with regular history. Sorry about your lovely teachers? "Art History" is a go-to STEM punching bag like underwater basketweaving. It's only as boring as you make it.
|
|
#
?
Nov 16, 2016 23:17
|
|