uspol november: as it turns out they could not stump the trump

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > uspol november: as it turns out they could not stump the trump

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icantfindaname: Jul 1, 2008

Kilroy posted:

lol that you think trump is in a more precarious position than paul ryan

like trump is literally the avatar of the frothing mob and they are super pissed, but yeah leader of the ayn rand death cult and right-wing policy alleged turbonerd paul ryan is going to hand him his rear end lofl

you know, maybe it was that I wasn't thinking as clearly in between dry heaves then, but this forum did seem to confront this election with some pretty sober and thoughtful analysis

good to see the old order reasserting itself

I guess it depends on what the Freedom Caucus really cares about and how enamored they are with Trump. But if he goes completely rogue I think they won't have much patience with him, especially if he's extremely unpopular with the public at large, which is not guaranteed but quite likely

# ? Nov 17, 2016 12:56

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# ? Jun 6, 2024 11:12

icantfindaname: Jul 1, 2008

ErIog posted:

Looks like there's enough white-identifying latinos to shore up the white base of the Republican party. We thought Texas might go blue next cycle. It might be a few cycles longer. Turns out partisanship has been a real motherfucker, and self-identification is a real thing. I don't blame them. Being able to pass as white is a hell of a boon. They're just taking what's theirs, but I just wish it wasn't so FYGM. You could say the same thing about descendants of Irish or Italian immigrants.

The real problem is if the Upper Midwest turns reliably red in presidential years or even just become swing states. The majority-minority coalition did not require everyone to vote 80%+ Democrat like black people but it did require Wisconsin and Michigan to be a blue wall

# ? Nov 17, 2016 12:58

Condiv: May 7, 2008; Sorry to undo the effort of paying a domestic abuser $10 to own this poster, but I am going to lose my dang mind if I keep seeing multiple posters who appear to be Baloogan.

With love,
a mod

ErIog posted:

_{You should get in your time machine and let everybody know that and then hang yourself back in 2008 while masturbating to Obama girl on YouTube}

lol, clintonistas didn't need someone with a time machine telling them clinton was bad, they had plenty of people already telling them that throughout the race. they just refused to listen cause they were high on clinton's farts

# ? Nov 17, 2016 13:02

A Wizard of Goatse: Dec 14, 2014

icantfindaname posted:

I guess it depends on what the Freedom Caucus really cares about and how enamored they are with Trump. But if he goes completely rogue I think they won't have much patience with him, especially if he's extremely unpopular with the public at large, which is not guaranteed but quite likely

Oh I'd say it's guaranteed, he's already extremely unpopular with the public at large. He also probably doesn't care about maintaining optics now that he's won and will happily wield executive powers like a club in ways none of the machine candidates we've had were

ErIog posted:

and country rubes are all about hating those city liberals*

*mostly minorities

If you can look at 'middle class' in your neighborhood averaging three times what any farmer's or coal miner's community does (oh, but not your janitor, the TRUE beating heart of your city! He's still broke!) and brush them off as your equal racist opposites you're off in la-la land, but you might make a handy object lesson for any third parties who aren't consumed by hatred but simply too close to the problem to recognize it without it being pointed out

Whether there's anyone in the cities who can rise above their upbringing or not, you can continue to make their lives miserable and there's really nobody to stop you but you'll never actually succeed at annihilating them or outlawing rural America's EC relevance, so enjoy your permanent automatic 'anything but that' opposition

A Wizard of Goatse fucked around with this message at 13:29 on Nov 17, 2016

# ? Nov 17, 2016 13:04

Kilroy: Oct 1, 2000

icantfindaname posted:

I guess it depends on what the Freedom Caucus really cares about and how enamored they are with Trump. But if he goes completely rogue I think they won't have much patience with him, especially if he's extremely unpopular with the public at large, which is not guaranteed but quite likely

okay so freedom caucus or paul ryan which is it because they are not fond of each other

# ? Nov 17, 2016 13:04

Mustached Demon: Nov 12, 2016

Anyone who thinks the gop will old itself away is an idiot. Those poo poo stains that call themselves the alt right aren't old and they certainly aren't better.

# ? Nov 17, 2016 13:09

icantfindaname: Jul 1, 2008

Kilroy posted:

okay so freedom caucus or paul ryan which is it because they are not fond of each other

Ryan and the FC are both all-in Ayn Rand death culters, if Trump doesn't do as directed they will both be mad at him

# ? Nov 17, 2016 13:09

Kilroy: Oct 1, 2000

icantfindaname posted:

The real problem is if the Upper Midwest turns reliably red in presidential years or even just become swing states. The majority-minority coalition did not require everyone to vote 80%+ Democrat like black people but it did require Wisconsin and Michigan to be a blue wall

what this election is trying to tell you is that they already are swing states, if not basically reliably red states that just happened to be snake-charmed by obama

I mean scott walker is the governor of wisconsin, rick snyder poisoned people and got reelected and the michigan senate is nearly 3-1 republican

turns out when you give up on supporting your party in statehouses across the country, you eventually stop being a loving political party in the first place

# ? Nov 17, 2016 13:13

Kilroy: Oct 1, 2000

Mustached Demon posted:

Anyone who thinks the gop will old itself away is an idiot. Those poo poo stains that call themselves the alt right aren't old and they certainly aren't better.

fwiw, most of the people posting alt-right memes in my facebook feed are old farts trying to be hip

# ? Nov 17, 2016 13:15

Kekekela: Oct 28, 2004

Kilroy posted:

fwiw, most of the people posting alt-right memes in my facebook feed are old farts trying to be hip

Haha same here.....

.... but "old farts trying to be hip" pretty much describes me and most people on my fb. :smith:

# ? Nov 17, 2016 13:29

Jonas Albrecht: Jun 7, 2012; Can't post for 20 hours!

Kilroy posted:

fwiw, most of the people posting alt-right memes in my facebook feed are old farts trying to be hip

Ben Garrison is the loving epitome of this.

# ? Nov 17, 2016 13:34

A Wizard of Goatse: Dec 14, 2014

Kilroy posted:

fwiw, most of the people posting alt-right memes in my facebook feed are old farts trying to be hip

ok the idea of some 60-year-old Nazi grandma hunt-and-pecking out le Pepe meme having no loving clue what the hell is going on but taking one for The Cause warms my heart a lil

# ? Nov 17, 2016 13:37

rscott: Dec 10, 2009

A Wizard of Goatse posted:

ok the idea of some 60-year-old Nazi grandma hunt-and-pecking out le Pepe meme having no loving clue what the hell is going on but taking one for The Cause warms my heart a lil

More like a 46 year old grandpa because this is white America we're talking about here

# ? Nov 17, 2016 14:06

white sauce: Apr 29, 2012; by R. Guyovich

ErIog posted:

and country rubes are all about hating those city liberals*

*mostly minorities

Looks like there's enough white-identifying latinos to shore up the white base of the Republican party. We thought Texas might go blue next cycle. It might be a few cycles longer. Turns out partisanship has been a real motherfucker, and self-identification is a real thing. I don't blame them. Being able to pass as white is a hell of a boon. They're just taking what's theirs, but I just wish it wasn't so FYGM. You could say the same thing about descendants of Irish or Italian immigrants.

So the right thing to do is to hate them back and then take their jobs and then ignore the opioid epidemic. A wise choice.

Also, you don't know poo poo about latinos

# ? Nov 17, 2016 14:08

white sauce: Apr 29, 2012; by R. Guyovich

Condiv posted:

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/nov/17/hillary-clinton-first-public-appearance-bernie-sanders

good. i hope you stay in your house forever and i never have to see you again

For real. Move over abuela, it's time for abuelo to take the reigns

# ? Nov 17, 2016 14:09

white sauce: Apr 29, 2012; by R. Guyovich

quote:

Still nursing their wounds after last week�s thrashing, Democrats already are grappling with how to defend 10 senators up for reelection in 2018 in states that Donald Trump carried, some resoundingly. Republicans are targeting a quintet of senators from conservative states where Trump walloped Hillary Clinton: Montana, Missouri, Indiana, North Dakota and West Virginia. The GOP could amass a filibuster-proof majority by running the table in those states and other battlegrounds.

To prevent that, Schumer will need to mine his fellow leaders to accommodate vulnerable Democrats with profoundly different ideologies and political circumstances � from Wisconsin�s Tammy Baldwin, who also was tapped for a leadership spot, to West Virginia�s Manchin, who has gone out of his way to align himself with Trump voters this week. That means appealing to the white working class in some states � and stoking minority and liberal turnout in others.

�People agree with us but didn�t believe in us,� said Sen. Brian Schatz of Hawaii, a liberal member of the caucus. �The left-right spectrum has been scrambled. And so, it�s no doubt we have a daunting map. But I think the way to run in this new environment is with authenticity, with passion, with connectivity.�

The foreboding map, coupled with competing political imperatives for different vulnerable members, has party leaders looking to drive wedges between Trump and Republican leaders in the early going. But ultimately, if Democrats hope to avoid ceding even more power to Republicans in two years, they�ll have to seize back the issues � and voters � that Trump snatched away.

�Those Trump voters are the same people who elected me to the Senate. You can say they�re different people, but they�re not different people,� said Sen. Heidi Heitkamp (D-N.D.). �I resist the characterizations that people make of good hardworking people. � I don�t give a lot of consideration to what the �party� does.�

�I�m proud of the fact that we�re a party of diversity and inclusivity, but that doesn�t mean we shouldn�t be talking to everyone. And I feel like we�ve neglected to do that,� said Sen. Claire McCaskill of Missouri, a moderate also up for reelection in 2018.

Heitkamp and McCaskill said Manchin�s appointment signals that party brass aren�t abandoning the Democratic centrists that won them a hefty 55-seat majority in 2012.

But for Manchin personally, the appointment could cut both ways.

He hopes that being in the room with Democratic leaders who are guiding an increasingly liberal party will be a boon for his reelection prospects. On the other hand, Republicans could tag him as a leader of a party that�s not winning any popularity contests in West Virginia.

�That could be a blessing and a curse from my standpoint,� Manchin said in an interview. �If they condemn me for that, then so be it. But I got a chance to speak for them and other working Americans. � We might not win [the argument], but you�re going to have your voice heard.�

Manchin, McCaskill, Heitkamp and Sens. Joe Donnelly of Indiana and Jon Tester of Montana will have ample latitude over the next two years to break with their party and vote with Trump and congressional Republicans. Still, Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.) needs eight Democratic defectors on legislation � and there aren�t enough moderates in the minority to consistently give it to him.

That means centrists can vote against more liberal party leaders, even while the rest of the party holds the line to block conservative policy. A preview of that dynamic was on display this week as liberals attacked Trump for appointing Steve Bannon to his inner circle, but moderate senators refrained.

That�s not to say the red-state Democrats will be with Trump on everything. Some said they intend to hold the president-elect accountable for his campaign promise to curb the influence of lobbyists.

�Draining the swamp, I�m going to work with him on that stuff. It does bother me that it does look like he�s filling the swamp right now. But that�s OK. Let�s give him a chance to get started,� Tester said.

�Pay close attention. Make sure that he delivers on the promises he�s made,� McCaskill added.

Indeed, a host of vulnerable Democrats recognize that Trump has pilfered some populist issues from Democrats. They see an opportunity to either team with Trump on those issues � or reclaim them if he fails to follow through.

�The kinds of things he was talking about are the things that I fight for every single day: Fair trade, currency manipulation, closing tax loopholes, taking jobs overseas. I�ve got 10 bills I�m happy to have him support,� said Sen. Debbie Stabenow of Michigan, a state where Trump narrowly leads but has not officially won.

Stabenow, who is also up in 2018, was named to the No. 4 leadership post heading Senate Democrats� messaging arm.

Republicans are bullish about padding their majority in the midterms. While Democrats may take back seats in the House, winning back the Senate is almost impossible, given that they will be on offense in just two battlegrounds, Arizona and Nevada, and defending 25 seats.

The political imbalance was made clear when Democrats announced their sprawling leadership team � but didn�t name a campaign chairman. Meanwhile, Sen. Cory Gardner of Colorado had already locked up the GOP�s campaign arm and was itching to get to work.

�We have a number of seats that we will be competitive in. We know that the map presents opportunities that we didn�t have in 2016,� Gardner said.

Indeed, Republicans have opportunities that the party wasn�t banking on just a few weeks ago. Trump won Wisconsin, Michigan, Pennsylvania, Florida and Ohio � states that have ranged from bright blue to purple over the past two decades.

Suddenly, senators like Stabenow, Baldwin, Bob Casey of Pennsylvania, Sherrod Brown of Ohio and Bill Nelson of Florida are alluring targets for Republicans. It�s an added headache for Schumer as he charts the party�s legislative strategy.

Longtime Democratic hands like Nelson don�t seem worried that the political landscape in their states has shifted. Democrats had myriad opportunities to put away GOP incumbents this year and knocked off only two, demonstrating that it�s still hard to oust a sitting senator.

�Just be myself,� Nelson said when asked how he appeals to Trump voters. �Just be my bipartisan, consensus-building self.�

http://www.politico.com/story/2016/11/senate-democrats-2018-midterms-231516

Remember when we thought none of this was ever gonna happen.

white sauce fucked around with this message at 14:18 on Nov 17, 2016

# ? Nov 17, 2016 14:14

Shrecknet: Jan 2, 2005

Jonas Albrecht posted:

We're gonna get Netrunner minus all the cool gizmos and with a lovely internet.

At least Dunklezahn cared about the people. Jinteki and HB just want to put people out of work.

# ? Nov 17, 2016 14:17

gohmak: Feb 12, 2004; cookies need love

greatn posted:

He literally just used his clout to get a Muslim as the leader of the DNC

African-American Muslim man. The sexist.

# ? Nov 17, 2016 14:20

Goa Tse-tung: Feb 11, 2008; ;3; Yams Fan

Dr. Angela Ziegler posted:

At least Dunklezahn cared about the people. Jinteki and HB just want to put people out of work.

nah Netrunner is too positive still, Make Arasaka Great Again

# ? Nov 17, 2016 14:24

Phone: Jul 30, 2005; 親子丼をほしい。

Being a corp is so much easier than being the runner.

# ? Nov 17, 2016 14:27

Eggplant Squire: Aug 14, 2003

Dr. Angela Ziegler posted:

At least Dunklezahn cared about the people. Jinteki and HB just want to put people out of work.

Um Jinteki brand clones are people friend (except for the part where they have no human rights).

# ? Nov 17, 2016 14:29

Shrecknet: Jan 2, 2005

Radish posted:

Um Jinteki brand clones are people friend (except for the part where they have no human rights).

As it turns out,

Only registered members can see post attachments!

# ? Nov 17, 2016 15:04

FAUXTON: Jun 2, 2005; spero che tu stia bene

Tight Booty Shorts posted:

Remember when we thought none of this was ever gonna happen.

Hey I'm still impressed they noticed Tester.

# ? Nov 17, 2016 15:05

Eggplant Squire: Aug 14, 2003

Dr. Angela Ziegler posted:

As it turns out,

WELP. Jinteki lobbyists made a fool out of me.

# ? Nov 17, 2016 15:09

Harrow: Jun 30, 2012

Tight Booty Shorts posted:

Remember when we thought none of this was ever gonna happen.

Aw Christ, there's no way the Dems are going to be able to hold filibusters, is there? :smith:

# ? Nov 17, 2016 15:11

the popes toes: Oct 10, 2004

This "Muslim database" is just a red herring. You don't think there's a database already?

However, reforms that are likely to get pushed through would be an expansion of information requested on port of call immigration forms, or "reforms" regarding how and when that information is acquired, ie, cops, social services, landlords etc. That would provide data to domestic LE groups that don't otherwise have access to other existing databases unless an event is labeled "terrorism".

The argument should be "how" existing databases will be used by whom, how the data is collected, how the inevitable expanded domestic database is used, and who has access to it. However, that's a debate that has been going on behind closed doors since Bush.

But all the fearful talk about "what if a database is created, we're doomed" is so 90's.

# ? Nov 17, 2016 15:11

Hieronymous Alloy: Jan 30, 2009; Why! Why!! Why must you refuse to accept that Dr. Hieronymous Alloy's Genetically Enhanced Cream Corn Is Superior to the Leading Brand on the Market!?!; Morbid Hound

the popes toes posted:

This "Muslim database" is just a red herring. You don't think there's a database already?

However, reforms that are likely to get pushed through would be an expansion of information requested on port of call immigration forms, or "reforms" regarding how and when that information is acquired, ie, cops, social services, landlords etc. That would provide data to domestic LE groups that don't otherwise have access to other existing databases unless an event is labeled "terrorism".

The argument should be "how" existing databases will be used by whom, how the data is collected, how the inevitable expanded domestic database is used, and who has access to it. However, that's a debate that has been going on behind closed doors since Bush.

But all the fearful talk about "what if a database is created, we're doomed" is so 90's.

I just think it's hilarious how bad the Trumpstaffel are at not looking and sounding like fascists.

# ? Nov 17, 2016 15:15

A Wizard of Goatse: Dec 14, 2014

rscott posted:

More like a 46 year old grandpa because this is white America we're talking about here

"I remember the war," thinks old man Vickers, as he transcribes his manifesto into Insanity Wolf format. "Affirmative Action lead this country down the wrong path, but we're going to make it right again." he says to himself, as he uploads to imgur and painstakingly retypes the URL into the submission box for the international community of people who want to gently caress a Japanese toy company mascot. It's good to hear it said out loud, sometimes. "Son, I hit the button and the screen changed, does that mean my picture went out?"

# ? Nov 17, 2016 15:15

BarbarianElephant: Feb 12, 2015; The fairy of forgiveness has removed your red text.

the popes toes posted:

This "Muslim database" is just a red herring. You don't think there's a database already?

No. Don't cynically assume that the government are already doing every evil thing you can imagine and therefore Trump can make nothing worse. The no-fly list is pretty big and scary but it doesn't comprise *all* Muslims by a long way or else no Muslims would ever be able to travel.

# ? Nov 17, 2016 15:15

Geostomp: Oct 22, 2008; Unite: MASH!!
~They've got the bad guys on the run!~

Harrow posted:

Aw Christ, there's no way the Dems are going to be able to hold filibusters, is there?

Democrats never seem to manage anywhere near the fervor to do something helpful that Republicans do something monstrous, so likely no.

# ? Nov 17, 2016 15:19

white sauce: Apr 29, 2012; by R. Guyovich

BarbarianElephant posted:

No. Don't cynically assume that the government are already doing every evil thing you can imagine and therefore Trump can make nothing worse. The no-fly list is pretty big and scary but it doesn't comprise *all* Muslims by a long way or else no Muslims would ever be able to travel.

The thing is there's no way for us to know, because the government has no reason to tell us anything about the surveillance state we currently live in.

For all we know there already is a database of Muslim people in the United States.

It's been proven without a doubt that there already is one done by the NYPD that extends to other states like Pennsylvania and Connecticut.

Not saying that what trump is trying to do isnt loving horrible, but it's not the first time it's happened in America

white sauce fucked around with this message at 15:30 on Nov 17, 2016

# ? Nov 17, 2016 15:20

mcmagic: Jul 1, 2004; If you see this avatar while scrolling the succ zone, you have been visited by the mcmagic of shitty lib takes! Good luck and prosperity will come to you, but only if you reply "shut the fuck up mcmagic" to this post!

It's VERY worrying that the democrats aren't even trying to contest the LA Senate runoff along with all this garbage about cooperating with Trump. Seems like preemptive surrender to me.

# ? Nov 17, 2016 15:21

white sauce: Apr 29, 2012; by R. Guyovich

Geostomp posted:

Democrats never seem to manage anywhere near the fervor to do something helpful that Republicans do something monstrous, so likely no.

It's because we love fighting each other and can never cohesively form an organization capable of any resistance.

# ? Nov 17, 2016 15:21

mcmagic: Jul 1, 2004; If you see this avatar while scrolling the succ zone, you have been visited by the mcmagic of shitty lib takes! Good luck and prosperity will come to you, but only if you reply "shut the fuck up mcmagic" to this post!

Tight Booty Shorts posted:

It's because we love fighting each other and can never cohesively form an organization capable of any resistance.

We don't hold democrats accountable in primaries.

# ? Nov 17, 2016 15:23

Kilroy: Oct 1, 2000

Tight Booty Shorts posted:

Remember when we thought none of this was ever gonna happen.

god drat when are democrats going to learn that people who want a republican in office will just vote for a republican jfc why is this so hard :psyduck:

especially in midterms if you energize your base you can seriously kick rear end - we did it in 2006 after all

maybe it is time for a new party I mean loving gently caress... gently caress

# ? Nov 17, 2016 15:27

citybeatnik: Mar 1, 2013; You Are All
WEIRDOS

the popes toes posted:

This "Muslim database" is just a red herring. You don't think there's a database already?

However, reforms that are likely to get pushed through would be an expansion of information requested on port of call immigration forms, or "reforms" regarding how and when that information is acquired, ie, cops, social services, landlords etc. That would provide data to domestic LE groups that don't otherwise have access to other existing databases unless an event is labeled "terrorism".

The argument should be "how" existing databases will be used by whom, how the data is collected, how the inevitable expanded domestic database is used, and who has access to it. However, that's a debate that has been going on behind closed doors since Bush.

But all the fearful talk about "what if a database is created, we're doomed" is so 90's.

One of the people out there banging the drum for it used the japanese-american internment camps as an example of why it'd be a good idea. So, there is that.

# ? Nov 17, 2016 15:27

BarbarianElephant: Feb 12, 2015; The fairy of forgiveness has removed your red text.

Kilroy posted:

maybe it is time for a new party I mean loving gently caress... gently caress

You can have influence on the Democratic party by turning up at local meetings and doing the work. Politics is run by those who turn up.

# ? Nov 17, 2016 15:28

white sauce: Apr 29, 2012; by R. Guyovich

BarbarianElephant posted:

You can have influence on the Democratic party by turning up at local meetings and doing the work. Politics is run by those who turn up.

Actually it's run by donors and fundraising.

# ? Nov 17, 2016 15:29

comingafteryouall: Aug 2, 2011

Politics are normally run by people with guns.

The USA has been an outlier for a while now.

# ? Nov 17, 2016 15:31

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# ? Jun 6, 2024 11:12

Covok: May 27, 2013; Yet where is that woman now? Tell me, in what heave does she reside? None of them. Because no God bothered to listen or care. If that is what you think it means to be a God, then you and all your teachings are welcome to do as that poor women did. And vanish from these realms forever.

Tight Booty Shorts posted:

Remember when we thought none of this was ever gonna happen.

I'm not following. What is bad/good with the bolded text?

# ? Nov 17, 2016 15:31

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > uspol november: as it turns out they could not stump the trump

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