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SwissArmyDruid posted:HALF A GODDAMN HOUR TO RESET YOUR BIOS?! Probably some sort of on package capacitor has to be discharged to clear the BIOS.
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Nov 11, 2016 04:40
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Yeah I don't think the half hour is going to be a thing on consumer and server products, it's an artifact of having to deal with so much poo poo for ES silicon that it's at the bottom of the list of things to fix, probably far behind "get good clockspeeds", "get good silicon", "get the errata fixed", "reduce power consumption". Also how would having the BIOS on package not leave it open to being bricked? Even in a dual bios situation for idiot consumers, someone with malicious intent could gently caress the BIOS and then what? AMD sends you replacement chips, refurrbs the bricked chips, and pushes out a BIOS update to repair vulnerabilities?
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Nov 11, 2016 05:15
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If there is a way to clear the BIOS settings then I don't see how its going to be bricked. Most corrupted BIOS issues happen during updating from what I know, not from bad settings, even when overclocking.
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Nov 11, 2016 05:24
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How often do you reset your bios that it even matters?
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Nov 11, 2016 06:29
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Ideally, resetting your BIOS is something that shouldn't be a thing you should have to do in the course of building or tweaking a computer. It should just boot without fail, with any settings that could break things being enabled after post. I think we're all just used to lovely BIOSes from motherboard manufacturers who don't really know what they're doing, maybe taking this stuff out of their hands is the solution to that mess.
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Nov 11, 2016 06:40
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And putting into AMD's hands is better?! Look, I want them to succeed like anyone else here in this thread, and I absolutely think that they can make 2017 the year that AMD unfucked itself on both the CPU and GPU sides, but...
SwissArmyDruid fucked around with this message at 06:52 on Nov 11, 2016 |
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Nov 11, 2016 06:49
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Better than some underpaid engineer in Taiwan.
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Nov 11, 2016 07:08
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I wonder if it'll be a unified overclocking service for CPUs and GPUs through Wattman. That would be pretty interesting. As far as advantages go, I think the leak mentioned (or maybe one of the follow up comments here) that it would be much much cheaper for motherboard manufacturers to make the boards, a pretty big bonus for an aggressive strategy to regain market share,and likely simplifying things even more for mobile products. As long as BIOS execution is "good" or better, that bodes pretty well. It's very exciting at least that there's something to differentiate from Intel feature wise, so hopefully it works out.
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Nov 11, 2016 11:23
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Isn't BIOS reset time one of the things that might get improved before retail sampling anyways
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Nov 11, 2016 12:02
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Yeah, I wouldn't get too worked up about the BIOS procedures until this thing hits the market, it's almost certain to change.
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Nov 11, 2016 15:07
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It's been 10 or 11 years since I actually had a reason to update the BIOS on a computer
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Nov 11, 2016 15:53
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I did it a month ago on my laptop so there's that.
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Nov 11, 2016 15:55
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FuturePastNow posted:It's been 10 or 11 years since I actually had a reason to update the BIOS on a computer i had to do it to fix a persistent crash related to my video driver, but that was it.
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Nov 11, 2016 18:02
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Oh, I'm sure there are reasons why people have to update a BIOS or uEFI. But it's just not a common or frequent thing even for computer enthusiasts.
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Nov 11, 2016 23:42
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FuturePastNow posted:Oh, I'm sure there are reasons why people have to update a BIOS or uEFI. But it's just not a common or frequent thing even for computer enthusiasts. At most you do it once when you get the hardware, and once if a new processor comes out on the same socket and needs new chipset firmware to handle it. It's not something you really have any need to do during regular operation. I've done it twice in the last 2 years, one was to push a Z87 board forward for Haswell Refresh compatibility and the other was a X99 motherboard that needed an update out of the box to get it to POST (lol gently caress you, sincerely Gigabyte). After you do it you're done. Unless you're developing microcode you should literally never have to do it after you get your hardware going. Paul MaudDib fucked around with this message at 03:34 on Nov 12, 2016 |
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Nov 12, 2016 03:03
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This does eliminate the need to be concerned over board compatibility though, right? AMD could pump out any number of Zen revisions that would normally require a BIOS update for support, but the BIOS is on package so...just drop it into any AM4 motherboard with enough cooling and power delivery?
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Nov 12, 2016 03:29
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Paul MaudDib posted:At most you do it once when you get the hardware, and once if a new processor comes out on the same socket and needs new chipset firmware to handle it. It's not something you really have any need to do during regular operation. There's a particular x86 instruction that for some reason won't show up as supported to the 64-bit Windows 10 (or 8.1, I think) installer on some Yorkfield Core 2 Quad/Xeon processors with factory microcode. I saw it on a Q8200 and an X3350, but there may be others. Applying a BIOS update that includes a microcode update to fix this is required to advance, although 32-bit Windows 10 or 64-bit Linux installs work perfectly. That's kind of a corner case though. Eletriarnation fucked around with this message at 04:19 on Nov 12, 2016 |
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Nov 12, 2016 04:12
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Eletriarnation posted:There's a particular x86 instruction that for some reason won't show up as supported to the 64-bit Windows 10 (or 8.1, I think) installer on some Yorkfield Core 2 Quad/Xeon processors with factory microcode. I saw it on a Q8200 and an X3350, but there may be others. Applying a BIOS update that includes a microcode update to fix this is required to advance, although 32-bit Windows 10 or 64-bit Linux installs work perfectly. Interesting, I've got a Q8200 with similar behavior, whats the process to begin remedying this?
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Nov 12, 2016 06:57
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Eletriarnation posted:There's a particular x86 instruction that for some reason won't show up as supported to the 64-bit Windows 10 (or 8.1, I think) installer on some Yorkfield Core 2 Quad/Xeon processors with factory microcode. I saw it on a Q8200 and an X3350, but there may be others. Applying a BIOS update that includes a microcode update to fix this is required to advance, although 32-bit Windows 10 or 64-bit Linux installs work perfectly. Even still, your hardware doesn't work and you do the update once and you're done. It's still not something you do regularly.
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Nov 12, 2016 07:01
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And it's probably right that this is just a symptom of them being engineering samples anyway.
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Nov 12, 2016 08:19
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FaustianQ posted:Interesting, I've got a Q8200 with similar behavior, whats the process to begin remedying this? Apply your motherboard's newest BIOS update available and the microcode update should be included. If that doesn't work or you already flashed the newest BIOS with that processor in, you may need a motherboard with newer updates to fix it. Both times I saw this it was with Intel boards - DP35DP and DX48BT2 - and both times the update fixed it.
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Nov 12, 2016 18:59
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I thought microcode was loaded by the OS during boot, not updated with a BIOS flash. Was I wrong? Edit: just checked and it is installed during the OS boot. Is there a rudimentary microcode supplied by BIOS chips first, in case the OS doesn't supply microcode? apropos man fucked around with this message at 12:01 on Nov 15, 2016 |
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Nov 15, 2016 11:24
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apropos man posted:Edit: just checked and it is installed during the OS boot. Is there a rudimentary microcode supplied by BIOS chips first, in case the OS doesn't supply microcode? Yes, and it does get updated when you flash a new BIOS (and there's new microcode that was added)
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Nov 15, 2016 14:39
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Ah. Makes sense now.
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Nov 15, 2016 15:10
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The Bios update can also do things for other controllers on the board. Take my X79 for instance, when it first dropped, it didn't support TRIM in Raid-0 with the Intel ports until like 3 version later. (The X79 was a pretty big mess when it launched). That and certain ram modules and other configurations get updated as bios fixes roll out. Finally the last update is like 3 years newer than when the board dropped, and fixed a lot of little things along the way. If your system is running fine, then usually you ignore bios updates, but sometimes a Bios update can fix a lot of specific little issues, increase compatibility, and offer some overclocking benefit as certain things get tweaked post launch. It also is a major thing on a lot of mobile devices as the cooling and battery control can be handled by the Bios as well. (now seems to be changing to smaller independent FW updates like the Surface Pro 3's are having with their batteries) The good thing is Bios updates have gotten reliably easier to install from Windows itself, and a lot of modern motherboards have safety fallbacks to flash the bios from as USB drive directly in those rare cases something really gets borked. I actually had to do this with my ACER W500 tablet as for whatever reason, letting an insider preview install of Win 10 expire on the thing rendered the tablet unable to boot. I also had no way of getting to the bios as the USB ports seemed to be rendered completely useless from the Quick Boot/Secure Boot of windows and the UEFI bios. The only way I finally got the thing to boot was to put the bios file on a fat32 drive, and boot it with a button press combo, which luckily worked and I was once again able to boot and reinstall Windows from USB normally. Fun in Bios land for sure.
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Nov 15, 2016 23:08
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A new WCCFT article for all to winnow what scant few truths can be had from the chaff. http://wccftech.com/amd-zen-summit-ridge-prices-details-leaked/ Note that the cited source post on Chiphell has been purged, so... Salt now so you're not salty later? SwissArmyDruid fucked around with this message at 08:19 on Nov 17, 2016 |
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Nov 17, 2016 08:16
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This contradicts ShockG's leak earlier that the baseline unlocked 8C/16T model will be ~299$, as 220$ for even the SR3 SKUs would mean an incredibly dense product stack and in which case, if there is only 80$ difference between a 4C/8T and 8C/16T why on earth would I buy the cheaper one? Also, lol, why would most people pay for 4C/8T Haswell-E @ 220-250$ when Kabylake or even Cannonlake would offer similar core counts, higher IPC and lower power consumption for either similar price for number of cores or ~100$ for similar threads? There was an oddly good comment (for the wrong reasons) on that article that AMD needs to match 4C/4T to i3, 4C/8T to i5 and 8C/8T/16T to i7s even if they achieve Haswell-E performance, otherwise what is the incentive? EDIT:  So now 8C/16T are all core boost of 3.5Ghz, up from 3.15Ghz just a couple weeks ago, which means single core boost has to be close to 4.0Ghz. Begin to arzy. EmpyreanFlux fucked around with this message at 14:20 on Nov 17, 2016 |
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Nov 17, 2016 14:16
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I think the 4C/8T Haswell-E exists so "gamer PC" makers like Alienware can offer another price point.
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Nov 17, 2016 17:58
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AMD is going up uP UP! up like 25% in 2 days much like power consumption on Zen and Polaris
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Nov 18, 2016 00:29
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WTF? I knew I should have bit at $6~ Wonder if it's too late to jump on or still to early. Hmm
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Nov 18, 2016 00:32
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edit: I'm dumb
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Nov 18, 2016 10:27
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Malcolm XML posted:AMD is going up uP UP! I've been long on AMD so long I got my shares for $2.49 Yea 
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Nov 18, 2016 15:34
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This is kind of a shot in the dark, but does anyone have experience running VMs on something like an Athlon 5370 or A6-5200? I ask because I just moved and the movers appear to have had coitus with a bear on/in my workstation(*), so my old phenom II machine is pretty much toast. Something in the sub-$100(**) range that'd let me run a few VMs and do light programming work would be wonderful. The most intensive VM use I get up to is usually spinning up win7 around tax time to run tax software. (* The loving HSF came loose as far as I can tell and boned the gently caress out of the CPU so bad the system won't even POST. Suuucks.) (** The power supply tests ok, and I'm hoping the RAM/HDDs are alright, so in theory popping in an AM1-based build or the a6-5200-based all-in-one board Newegg has should maybe get me back on my feet? The stuff I'm looking at all seems to use the same ddr3 ram I've got, even if I'll be going to 2x4gb instead of 4x4gb from the old build... Based on fan activity/LED, I think my video card may have been unscathed too, but these days I don't really have time to game so even the integrated graphics should be fine. There's at least a 50% chance this resurrected frankenbox would end up running headless in a closet somewhere as it is.)
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Nov 20, 2016 08:27
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volkadav posted:This is kind of a shot in the dark, but does anyone have experience running VMs on something like an Athlon 5370 or A6-5200? You should be fine. Provided you aren't trying to mine bitcoin on them or do video editing. roadhead posted:I've been long on AMD so long I got my shares for $2.49 I got in late, at 3.59 Come on baby, let's go to 15.
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Nov 21, 2016 16:40
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PC LOAD LETTER posted:We appear to have some new leaks, saw these linked on Dresdenboy's twitter so not just random crap here. 'Only AMD can update the BIOS code' bothers me a little bit, especially after hearing all the security crap that went on with Lenovo and their BIOS installing bloatware or leaving people vulnerable to BIOS code hacks. Stop taking control away from end users, we don't need another Apple running around and forcing bullshit rules on consumers.
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Nov 21, 2016 19:28
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What are the advantages of on chip BIOS? I get it removes some external circuitry. I imagine AMD think (if this will happen in retail chips) there are other advantages too.
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Nov 21, 2016 22:07
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GRINDCORE MEGGIDO posted:What are the advantages of on chip BIOS? Putting the BIOS on-chip means earlier AM4 boards should Just Work with later AM4 chips, unlike Intel where you need a BIOS update to support newer chips but can't update without either an older CPU or a high-end board that can flash itself with no CPU.
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Nov 21, 2016 22:31
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If someone manages to put malware on it you're super screwed.
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Nov 21, 2016 22:31
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I wonder what it would do for Post times though..
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Nov 21, 2016 23:09
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Probably nothing since post times are mostly the system trying to make heads and tails of what peripheral ports and things are connected to it. Like: Counting USB ports. There are still three. Thunderbolt, 1. Graphics card in PCI-e slot 4 and so on.
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Nov 21, 2016 23:12
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