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DrProsek posted:There's a whole bunch of Hillary supporters now going back and saying "the only reason she lost was because Bernie Sanders ran against her in the primary and corrupted her campaign with too much socialism. If she had gone into the general with a clearer vision for America (see: even more neoliberal than she ended up being) she'd have won, this is all Bernie's fault!" Holy poo poo what a bad article. How can you say "Sanders tapped into the same anti-establishment anger that Trump did" which ended up winning him the presidency, and then in the same breath say that if Clinton had been more establishment she would have won? She didn't lose because she "kowtowed to minorities" she lost because she failed to offer a platform of change, and instead promised more of the same, which turned off people on both sides of the fence. That and a myriad of other mistakes that, if addressed, could've maybe still won despite her uninspiring message.
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Nov 18, 2016 15:13
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Dems should have done this but around 2006. Dems should still do it now.
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Nov 18, 2016 15:13
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Well What Now posted:I wish him well with this. No. David Brock is irredeemable slime. 
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Nov 18, 2016 15:17
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Tight Booty Shorts posted:Have you read the Hillary toxx thread ??
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Nov 18, 2016 15:20
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:Mark Blyth spoke at the Watson Institute about a week ago with his own autopsy report on the result of the Trump election, and the impending right wing takeovers in several European states. This video is hits on so many things that I have felt but been unable to fully articulate. I will admit I skipped a lot of Wendy talking. I don't think shes wrong, based on what I did see, but her points are very micro scale and I think a lot of the problems are macro. edit - I went back and watched more. I think she was wrong on a lot. Specifically on Sanders not having a chance to win. Also on Clinton not being a flawed candidate, she was. Shemp the Stooge has issued a correction as of 16:21 on Nov 18, 2016 |
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Nov 18, 2016 15:25
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:I watched Lena Dunham's Hillary Clinton rap video, and didn't realize it was her because the opening felt like someone making a satire of Lena Dunham. It's not really self-deprecation when you are actually that loving stupid and terrible. For self-deprecation to work, there has to be some kind of critique, but there's no criticism when you're fully embracing being garbage. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H51HuNX41Fg This is probably example 1,000,000,000,000 of the self indulgent outreach that people who already really like Hillary ate the gently caress up but pushed away everyone else. Thoguh has issued a correction as of 17:32 on Nov 18, 2016 |
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Nov 18, 2016 15:27
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Serf posted:Holy poo poo what a bad article. How can you say "Sanders tapped into the same anti-establishment anger that Trump did" which ended up winning him the presidency, and then in the same breath say that if Clinton had been more establishment she would have won? She didn't lose because she "kowtowed to minorities" she lost because she failed to offer a platform of change, and instead promised more of the same, which turned off people on both sides of the fence. That and a myriad of other mistakes that, if addressed, could've maybe still won despite her uninspiring message. My favorite part of the "stabbed in the back by Bernie" myth is that of all the things Trump attacked her on and actually what voters remembered going into November, none of them were remotely "is too socialist". They were all stuff like Emailgazi, too establishment, not racist/sexist enough, personality of cardboard, etc. And Bernie went out of his way to make sure Emailgazi wasn't the topic of the Dem primary. Like, even if Bernie did somehow turn some Hillary voters off of her, he then went around during the primary endorsing her while Trump attacked her from a totally different direction than Bernie. Bernie could not have minimized his impact to Hillary's campaign more if he tried.
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Nov 18, 2016 15:34
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Shemp the Stooge posted:This video is hits on so many things that I have felt but been unable to fully articulate. I will admit I skipped a lot of Wendy talking. I don't think shes wrong, based on what I did see, but her points are very micro scale and I think a lot of the problems are macro. She takes a very partisan Democrat approach to interpreting the election and ways to move forward that I think are missing the point. It's not that she's wrong, it's just that there's going to be so much institutional pushback from the Democratic establishment we won't have much choice but to organize a left wing alternative. Thoguh posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H51HuNX41Fg Looking at the like/dislike ratio, it probably didn't even appeal to them either.
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Nov 18, 2016 15:38
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DrProsek posted:My favorite part of the "stabbed in the back by Bernie" myth is that of all the things Trump attacked her on, that voters said caused them to vote Trump over Hillary, none of them were remotely "is too socialist". They were all stuff like Emailgazi, too establishment, not racist/sexist enough, personality of cardboard, etc. And Bernie went out of his way to make sure Emailgazi wasn't the topic of the Dem primary. No one that I've talked to on either side can name a single policy position that Clinton held that they agreed/disagreed with because she essentially had no positions that she pushed! This narrative that she was dragged to the left and failed because of it is bunk because she barely talked about herself (at least that was reported by the media), and instead focused on the "I'm not Trump/more of the same" messaging which gets absolutely no one excited. Man, the more I think about it the more garbage that article is.
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Nov 18, 2016 15:41
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Thoguh posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H51HuNX41Fg "Self-indulgent" is a really good word for it. As people have already pointed out, the Lena Dunham class of activist blatantly only cares about social issues that affect Lena Dunham, and even other social-justice-focused activists have been alienated by her by now.
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Nov 18, 2016 15:44
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I just picked up the "fighting for justice since the age of 15" line. When Clinton was a teenager, she canvassed for Nixon and then volunteered for Goldwater. 
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Nov 18, 2016 15:45
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Thoguh posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H51HuNX41Fg this should be in textbooks to explain why Hillary lost.
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Nov 18, 2016 15:49
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Thoguh posted:No. David Brock is irredeemable slime. David Brock looks like an SNL skit in which Denis Leary is playing David Lynch
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Nov 18, 2016 15:49
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What actually is this whole Our Revolution thing?
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Nov 18, 2016 15:52
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GlyphGryph posted:What actually is this whole Our Revolution thing? It's a Bernie-backed fundraising/outreach group that's been backing progressive candidates. Some of them got pulled down by Clinton (Teachout) but some have succeeded.
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Nov 18, 2016 15:54
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They're pretty light on activity outside of the coasts, though. I would look into starting a local chapter if you don't have one, that or the Working Families Party, or even a local socialist party if you're feeling frisky. Even if you're not interested in running, helping to organize is a huge step in itself.
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Nov 18, 2016 16:09
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GlyphGryph posted:What actually is this whole Our Revolution thing? soon they will flip the west coast and new england and austin texas blue and there's nothing u can do to stop them
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Nov 18, 2016 16:17
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:Yeah, the key point being that they're not on the left at all. They're typically from a well off class of people who can still afford to live in urban zones despite the massive property values, and are completely insulated from any real working class hardships. Dunham herself is the daughter of two successful artists who have careers spanning decades, and they gave her at least $65,000 to produce Tiny Furniture, which she cut most of the labor costs for by convincing her friends & family to act and produce it. Pretty much. I have to admit, part of me takes satisfaction in the idea that if socialists manage to take over the Democratic party from the inside these self-indulgent types will flee to the Republicans so fast it will break the sound barrier when some technological nick knack costs $15 more because the people making it are paid a living wage and their local high school has a black prom king because every school in the country has been desegregated.
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Nov 18, 2016 16:20
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:Trump's campaign for sure was no less spectacular, but it was a hard & ugly gutteral spectacle - like a professional wrestling event. Something none of them could ever relate to. Someone please post that gif of Vince McMahon watching the election results. I did not save it.
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Nov 18, 2016 16:20
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:Yeah, the key point being that they're not on the left at all. They're typically from a well off class of people who can still afford to live in urban zones despite the massive property values, and are completely insulated from any real working class hardships. Dunham herself is the daughter of two successful artists who have careers spanning decades, and they gave her at least $65,000 to produce Tiny Furniture, which she cut most of the labor costs for by convincing her friends & family to act and produce it. Literally this. There is a reason why so many of these self described "liberals" love Eisenhower and have warm feeling of Rockerfeller. Democrats are centrists at best. You aren't going to see establishment Democrats raise their taxes significantly or have poor and minorities attend their children's schools Why do you think liberal cities like San Francisco and New York are plagued by segregation issues and cost of living expenses worse than "racist" Southern cities? These people live in a bubble and are not only disconnected from the day to day lives of the average worker, but can't literally understand it. I wouldn't be surprised if we see the political parties shuffle again in the future, with the working class and low educated whites going back to the Democratic Party in full and the educated/high earning urban citizens going back to the Republican Party.
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Nov 18, 2016 16:38
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Iron Twinkie posted:Pretty much. They don't care that he's black so much, its the fact he's poor that scares them. How dare their children be exposed to the fact this nation is unequal.
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Nov 18, 2016 16:57
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punk rebel ecks posted:Literally this. There is a reason why so many of these self described "liberals" love Eisenhower and have warm feeling of Rockerfeller. Democrats are centrists at best. You aren't going to see establishment Democrats raise their taxes significantly or have poor and minorities attend their children's schools Why do you think liberal cities like San Francisco and New York are plagued by segregation issues and cost of living expenses worse than "racist" Southern cities? That was a good interview so I'm going to link it directly. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a9xSVzdUNqo Their confused silence when he challenges them on who they are talking about when they say "nobody would say we're in a recession" couldn't have been better if it was scripted.
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Nov 18, 2016 17:03
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Harvard Business Review on the White Working Class: https://hbr.org/2016/11/what-so-many-people-dont-get-about-the-u-s-working-class
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Nov 18, 2016 17:09
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Thoguh posted:That was a good interview so I'm going to link it directly. I need to read up on this guy.
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Nov 18, 2016 17:12
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Lawman 0 posted:I need to read up on this guy. I remember when it came out that he endorsed Bernie and I was privately smug about it but it was realistically already too late for the primary by then
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Nov 18, 2016 17:13
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punk rebel ecks posted:I wouldn't be surprised if we see the political parties shuffle again in the future, with the working class and low educated whites going back to the Democratic Party in full and the educated/high earning urban citizens going back to the Republican Party. It'll probably happen once the GOP jettisons the social right, which right now would be suicide for them. Down the line as the old, bigoted fucks die off (which they will, but not soon enough), the GOP is likely going to have to move left socially for the reason that more young, wealthy people are aligning with the Dems simply because of social issues. Of course, there are exceptions, like Warren Buffet actually being one of those rich people who openly goes "Raise my taxes!" and means it. And yes, that's basically me screaming "DEMOGRAPHICS ARE KING". To an extent they are, but we all jumped the gun on it. Sun Belt got more purple this year, but at the cost of losing the Rust Belt. And no, I'm not advocating we rest on those laurels, we still have work to do beyond just relying on demographics.
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Nov 18, 2016 17:14
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It's not even that he's a good person or anything. He's a corporate raider billionaire. He's just aware that most people are being poo poo on and haven't seen an increase in real wages in a long time.
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Nov 18, 2016 17:15
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Crowsbeak posted:They don't care that he's black so much, its the fact he's poor that scares them. How dare their children be exposed to the fact this nation is unequal. They haven't even seen Hamilton or the Harry Potter movies! How can children be expected to learn when their classrooms are filled with people with no culture?
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Nov 18, 2016 17:20
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Before the election Mark Blyth gave a talk where he outlines all of the global economic issues which gave rise to "Trumpism" along with a Q&A in a full 1 1/2 hour. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kd2d4_LcEig&t=6s He even gets asked what his hypothetical political platform would be to deal with these issues towards the end of the video.
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Nov 18, 2016 17:21
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Thoguh posted:That was a good interview so I'm going to link it directly. lmfao this owns "Who is your nobody?" Silence, then a loving troll face from him.
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Nov 18, 2016 17:25
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Thoguh posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H51HuNX41Fg A couple of lines from that video really nail the problems with the hillary campaign: "and people still have the nerve to ask what her plan is. Her plan is to win against hatred and slurs. Just three words "I'm with her"" Even in her promotional material she admits her lack of messaging and still refuses to correct it in any way.
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Nov 18, 2016 17:27
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Thoguh posted:That was a good interview so I'm going to link it directly. That was such an incredible exchange. "Who is your 'nobody'?"
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Nov 18, 2016 17:27
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Thoguh posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H51HuNX41Fg i've never seen this hahahaha
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Nov 18, 2016 17:30
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Condiv posted:A couple of lines from that video really nail the problems with the hillary campaign: "and people still have the nerve to ask what her plan is. Her plan is to win against hatred and slurs. Just three words "I'm with her"" "I'm with Her" is the worst goddamn slogan in history. Edelman's interview also has a key point where a dude says "you're talking about oppression" and doesn't seem to realize that for the individual the grand economic picture doesn't matter. It doesn't matter if the service sector is up if you're unemployed or making less money. You still feel like the economy isn't good. Cause for you, the economy isn't good.
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Nov 18, 2016 17:34
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Condiv posted:A couple of lines from that video really nail the problems with the hillary campaign: "and people still have the nerve to ask what her plan is. Her plan is to win against hatred and slurs. Just three words "I'm with her"" The Lena Dunham Hillary rap video by me, Lena Dunham. Find out my (Lena Dunham's) viewpoints about politics. I'm Lena Dunham.
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Nov 18, 2016 17:35
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AREE WE TALKIN DUNHAMS IN HERE??????!! oooooh i hates that varmant
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Nov 18, 2016 17:38
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punk rebel ecks posted:I wouldn't be surprised if we see the political parties shuffle again in the future, with the working class and low educated whites going back to the Democratic Party in full and the educated/high earning urban citizens going back to the Republican Party. The coasts aren't going back to the GOP anytime soon trust me. Bernie's message is popular with educated people to. This fatalism that you can't have a big tent party is insane.
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Nov 18, 2016 17:42
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someone tell me that the democrats are rebuilding and not buying the "trump won because he did a racism that all white people loved" line
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Nov 18, 2016 17:49
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Venom Snake posted:The coasts aren't going back to the GOP anytime soon trust me. Bernie's message is popular with educated people to. This fatalism that you can't have a big tent party is insane. I would agree with this for the most part. But I could definitely see some of the more "liberal as a lifestyle" types go GOP. As their support for the left only comes down to wanting to appear trendy. Crowsbeak has issued a correction as of 18:05 on Nov 18, 2016 |
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Nov 18, 2016 17:49
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eonwe posted:someone tell me that the democrats are rebuilding and not buying the "trump won because he did a racism that all white people loved" line what does your heart tell you eonwe
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Nov 18, 2016 17:50
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