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eonwe posted:someone tell me that the democrats are rebuilding and not buying the "trump won because he did a racism that all white people loved" line bernie is leading dem outreach in the senate and chuck loving schumer endorsed ellison for DNC chair
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Nov 18, 2016 17:51
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eonwe posted:someone tell me that the democrats are rebuilding and not buying the "trump won because he did a racism that all white people loved" line from what I've seen on Twitter, a lot of people are grossly misinterpreting Sanders' statements that the Democrats will work with Trump on economic issues as endorsement for full-blown Nazism. No matter how well-meaning, I'm not sure an economic justice platform will ever appeal to social justice types and that is real loving depressing.
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Nov 18, 2016 17:51
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bernie is by all accounts in charge right now and the party seems to be falling in line.
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Nov 18, 2016 17:52
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This is fine. It would have been nice if the DNC could have shown even token support, too bad they were too involved with grift and glad-handing.
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Nov 18, 2016 17:52
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:Yeah, the key point being that they're not on the left at all. They're typically from a well off class of people who can still afford to live in urban zones despite the massive property values, and are completely insulated from any real working class hardships. Dunham herself is the daughter of two successful artists who have careers spanning decades, and they gave her at least $65,000 to produce Tiny Furniture, which she cut most of the labor costs for by convincing her friends & family to act and produce it. I don't really buy-into the idea that all rich bleeding heart liberals would run to the GOP because their patron saint is Warren Buffet and they get that they will be fine financially with a small tax increase if it means creating programs that benefit people who don't have a golden parachute. It's the "socially progressive/financially conservative" fools who think that society will be fine if you just love everyone equally and that just doesn't work. As much as she falls on her face at times, I feel like that Dunham wants to demonstrate and create empathy for people. She's going to have to accept the small part of the populace that she can actually speak to/speak for, though, and support people who can speak to other sections of the populace. My problem with liberal celebrities is that they don't know when to get out of the way. It's the mental insecurities and instabilities that seem to push people who end up at the top of the food chain in just about any career and it also means they don't know when they're hurting the very cause they want to champion. tadashi has issued a correction as of 17:54 on Nov 18, 2016 |
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Nov 18, 2016 17:52
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This Dunham stuff is the real world equivalent of "I JUST PUT YOU ON IGNORE I AM IGNORING YOU IGNORE IGNORE IGNOOOOOORRRRRREEEEEEE IT IS VERY IMPORTANT THAT EVERYONE KNOWS HOW LITTLE ATTENTION I AM PAYING TO YOU" isn't it?
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Nov 18, 2016 17:52
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eonwe posted:someone tell me that the democrats are rebuilding and not buying the "trump won because he did a racism that all white people loved" line Just ask your self what is the most simple message most of the dems already agree with, so the least work, and will help get more of them out to vote next time.
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Nov 18, 2016 17:52
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Grondoth posted:"I'm with Her" is the worst goddamn slogan in history. I've said it before, but it's also the worst one out of the three slogans they used. "She's With Us" was "I'm With Her" plus hindsight ("maybe our boring robotic candidate's star power isn't the main thing we should be emphasizing here?") but didn't go anywhere for some reason, and "Stronger Together" had a message beyond "our candidate is a woman" but was only really a thing for a couple weeks. They settled on a slogan that says "I am in fact a Hillary Clinton supporter, yes indeedy" when they had ample opportunities to use a different one. Venom Snake posted:The coasts aren't going back to the GOP anytime soon trust me. Bernie's message is popular with educated people to. This fatalism that you can't have a big tent party is insane. I think he was speaking in a long-term sense, meaning that in ten or twenty years when the old people propping up the social right die out, socially-liberal rich people won't have backwards reactionaries to vote against, and voting against backwards reactionaries is basically the Democratic party's number one plank rn But yeah we can absolutely prevent that shift by becoming more economically leftist and pro-labor ASAP
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Nov 18, 2016 17:53
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Ellison is also a drat good choice for DNC chair and I hope he gets it.
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Nov 18, 2016 17:54
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tadashi posted:I don't really buy-into the idea that all rich bleeding heart liberals would run to the GOP because their patron saint is Warren Buffet and they get that they will be fine financially with a small tax increase if it means creating programs that benefit people who don't have a golden parachute. It's the "socially progressive/financially conservative" fools who think that society will be fine if you just love everyone equally and that just doesn't work. She definitely knows what's right for gender sexuality and racial issues and she will gladly tell you as long as she gets credit for it. She's about as authentic as Hillary dabbing on Ellen tho
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Nov 18, 2016 17:55
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loquacius posted:I've said it before, but it's also the worst one out of the three slogans they used. "She's With Us" was "I'm With Her" plus hindsight ("maybe our boring robotic candidate's star power isn't the main thing we should be emphasizing here?") but didn't go anywhere for some reason, and "Stronger Together" had a message beyond "our candidate is a woman" but was only really a thing for a couple weeks. They settled on a slogan that says "I am in fact a Hillary Clinton supporter, yes indeedy" when they had ample opportunities to use a different one. The problem with the pro-labor/pro-union argument is the GOP in many states has convinced working class people that unions are evil and will be bad for them. It's also hard to convince working class white people that progressives aren't talking down to them because they just want to run away screaming about Don't Tread on Me. If that argument is going to work, they'll need to champion both organized and non-organized labor, at least initially.
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Nov 18, 2016 17:57
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theflyingexecutive posted:She definitely knows what's right for gender sexuality and racial issues and she will gladly tell you as long as she gets credit for it. She's about as authentic as Hillary dabbing on Ellen tho Remember Odell-Beckham-Jr-Not-Talking-To-Lena-Dunham-At-The-Met-Gala-Gate She's the voice of comfortable well-to-do rich women who have a persecution complex about the fact that they look kinda dumpy
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Nov 18, 2016 17:59
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loquacius posted:look kinda dumpy This is a great loving way to win over people to your argument, as much as Lena Dunham and her peers annoy me.
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Nov 18, 2016 18:00
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tadashi posted:The problem with the pro-labor/pro-union argument is the GOP in many states has convinced working class people that unions are evil and will be bad for them. It's also hard to convince working class white people that liberals aren't talking down to them. If that argument is going to work, they'll need to champion both organized and non-organized labor. Yeah I probably should have specified that when I said "pro-labor" I didn't necessarily only mean "pro-union". It's very possible to campaign on workers' rights without talking about unions at all. Also we've talked ITT about expanding the definition of "working class" to include office drones and I definitely still think we need to do that.
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Nov 18, 2016 18:01
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Schnorkles posted:bernie is by all accounts in charge right now and the party seems to be falling in line. I don't see how this is remotely true. He's done basically nothing.
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Nov 18, 2016 18:01
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The DNC will let the progressives take over to take blame for the 2018 midterm and the corporatists will retake the party just in time to gently caress up the 2020 election.
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Nov 18, 2016 18:05
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loquacius posted:Remember Odell-Beckham-Jr-Not-Talking-To-Lena-Dunham-At-The-Met-Gala-Gate i could never have guessed that misogyny was at the heart of all of this disproportionate hate for lena dunham..... Woah better reevaluate my positions
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Nov 18, 2016 18:05
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theflyingexecutive posted:She definitely knows what's right for gender sexuality and racial issues and she will gladly tell you as long as she gets credit for it. She's about as authentic as Hillary dabbing on Ellen tho Yeah, Dunham is fine for my friends who are women that went to liberal arts colleges. She speaks truth to their issues and that's fine. The Democrat's problem is a lack of a Mike Rowe figure advocating for a Democratic platform. I don't know how the Republicans got Mike Rowe on board their platform but that was a masterful move and I've seen people equating elitist suburbanites that hate the working class with all liberals when those people actually overwhelmingly vote Republican. I've seen a couple of people say we should have some Christian leftists getting more prominent support in the party. If Tim Kaine came out and did nothing but talk about a populist Democratic platform built on Christian values I would be OK with him coming back out of the bunker.
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Nov 18, 2016 18:05
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Message received, shutting the gently caress up 
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Nov 18, 2016 18:06
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loquacius posted:Remember Odell-Beckham-Jr-Not-Talking-To-Lena-Dunham-At-The-Met-Gala-Gate Yeah it's like she accidentally fell into having the right positions
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Nov 18, 2016 18:07
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comingafteryouall posted:I've seen a couple of people say we should have some Christian leftists getting more prominent support in the party. If Tim Kaine came out and did nothing but talk about a populist Democratic platform built on Christian values I would be OK with him coming back out of the bunker. I told him this in the conference callllllllllllllllll ugh
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Nov 18, 2016 18:08
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Concerned Citizen posted:I don't see how this is remotely true. He's done basically nothing. I think they're just using him to talk to people in the areas where they fell on their faces. I don't get the impression that they're ready to really make him a true leader. It could work if you spread the message across Bernie for the white working class populists, Kaine for the Roman Catholic vote, god only knows who to talk to Evangelists, and then find an African American leader in the South to mobilize around.
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Nov 18, 2016 18:08
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tadashi posted:I don't really buy-into the idea that all rich bleeding heart liberals would run to the GOP because their patron saint is Warren Buffet and they get that they will be fine financially with a small tax increase if it means creating programs that benefit people who don't have a golden parachute. It's the "socially progressive/financially conservative" fools who think that society will be fine if you just love everyone equally and that just doesn't work. You're mistaken in assuming that any of these people want their taxes increased, like, at all. It's easy for a guy like Warren Buffet who, if he wanted, would never have to work another day in his life claim that his taxes should be increased. It's another thing completely for the managerial and artistic middle class we're talking about - which still has to work for a living - to agree to any kind of tax increase on incomes which, if they lived anywhere other than Brooklyn or San Francisco, would allow them to live like royalty. Lena Dunham happens to be more on the trust fund baby side of the scale, than the low-rung Wall Street goon side of things, yet their class interests are the same. This came up a lot during the primary, when middle to upper-middle class goons balked at any notion that their incomes should be taxed any higher. Just tax the rich people, they're the ones making all of the money. Well, the rich as a class aren't going to agree to any kind of tax increase, Warren Buffets being the exception to the rule, and you all in the Middle Class will never agree to any kind of across the board tax raise - so who ever will? Everybody is conditioned to have this FYGM attitude, even when the need to fund necessary programs with more taxes is more important than ever. I can understand why a lot of middle class people will think this way practically. A lot of them are drawn into lifestyles and debt cycles where their considerable income won't guarantee security, after everything else is detracted. But at some point you have to wake up and smell the roses. Eventually you have to come to terms with the system that's keeping you under thumb, and accept some sacrifice to overthrow it.
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Nov 18, 2016 18:10
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tadashi posted:I think they're just using him to talk to people in the areas where they fell on their faces. I don't get the impression that they're ready to really make him a true leader. they literally made up a "leadership position" for him that can be described as "chairman of getting people to pay attention to us" Gotta wonder how much of his job will be setting policy goals and how much of it will be continuing to make fire-and-brimstone stump speeches
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Nov 18, 2016 18:10
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loquacius posted:Yeah I probably should have specified that when I said "pro-labor" I didn't necessarily only mean "pro-union". It's very possible to campaign on workers' rights without talking about unions at all. Also we've talked ITT about expanding the definition of "working class" to include office drones and I definitely still think we need to do that.  I push a mouse for a living, but I live in a studio and paycheck to paycheck. Middle Class I am not, and if restoring the Left in America means changing my self identity, I'm glad of it.
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Nov 18, 2016 18:10
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loquacius posted:they literally made up a "leadership position" for him that can be described as "chairman of getting people to pay attention to us" I guess that's what I mean. I don't get the impression that it's a leadership behind the scenes position. He's the Democratic evangelist-in-chief, though. Pener Kropoopkin posted:I can understand why a lot of middle class people will think this way practically. A lot of them are drawn into lifestyles and debt cycles where their considerable income won't guarantee security, after everything else is detracted. But at some point you have to wake up and smell the roses. Eventually you have to come to terms with the system that's keeping you under thumb, and accept some sacrifice to overthrow it. This is certainly problem #1. It sounds cliche to talk about the bourgeois but it's a very real problem and people get class envy where they want to look like and sound like their financial superiors even while they're burying themselves in a lifetime of debt and loving over their childrens' financial security in the future. So, how the hell do you we even start to get that to change? tadashi has issued a correction as of 18:14 on Nov 18, 2016 |
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Nov 18, 2016 18:11
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theflyingexecutive posted:I told him this in the conference callllllllllllllllll ugh I don't know if it would work since there are issues about which denominations talk about which issues, which denominations have more Democrats or Republicans, etc. But it could help and Tim Kaine is good when he lets that part of his personality fly instead of trying to be an attack dog.
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Nov 18, 2016 18:12
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Ya'll can eat poo poo if you think anybody else should be a leader right now quite frankly.
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Nov 18, 2016 18:12
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tadashi posted:The problem with the pro-labor/pro-union argument is the GOP in many states has convinced working class people that unions are evil and will be bad for them. It's also hard to convince working class white people that progressives aren't talking down to them because they just want to run away screaming about Don't Tread on Me. If that argument is going to work, they'll need to champion both organized and non-organized labor, at least initially. In many cases unions really aren't great. They're neutered by labor laws which over-condition their strike power to the point that it's not a real threat, and their dues end up being funneled into donations to Democratic pols who pursue neoliberal policies at their expense anyway. The long-term solution is to create programs which will allow them to buy out their work places, and transform them into co-ops.
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Nov 18, 2016 18:13
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Concerned Citizen posted:I don't see how this is remotely true. He's done basically nothing. Okay
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Nov 18, 2016 18:14
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Nonsense posted:Ya'll can eat poo poo if you think anybody else should be a leader right now quite frankly. what about lenin
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Nov 18, 2016 18:15
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Hell, a huge part of labor I don't see anyone mention often unpaid internships. They drive down the price of labor, primarily benefit people who are already well-off enough to be able to work for long periods without pay, and have otherwise eliminated a lot of entry level positions at large companies. Move the Democrats toward banning unpaid internships in any for-profit situation and I bet that would motivate voters in the 18-30 range just as much as forgiveness of college debt.
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Nov 18, 2016 18:15
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comingafteryouall posted:I don't know if it would work since there are issues about which denominations talk about which issues, which denominations have more Democrats or Republicans, etc. Catholics voted for trump more than Romney or McCain, despite the fact he only brought up abortion once. Kaine needs to remind Catholics they're a socially liberal organization that depends on Dems to function
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Nov 18, 2016 18:16
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Al! posted:what about lenin Hell yeah, let's put together a heist to steal Peter Thiel's immortality secrets and use them to resurrect the only true leftist leaders. tower time posted:Hell, a huge part of labor I don't see anyone mention often unpaid internships. They drive down the price of labor, primarily benefit people who are already well-off enough to be able to work for long periods without pay, and have otherwise eliminated a lot of entry level positions at large companies. Move the Democrats toward banning unpaid internships in any for-profit situation and I bet that would motivate voters in the 18-30 range just as much as forgiveness of college debt. This is a good idea, you should go to a meeting and start pushing that. The only problem could be non-profits.
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Nov 18, 2016 18:16
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comingafteryouall posted:Hell yeah, let's put together a heist to steal Peter Thiel's immortality secrets and use them to resurrect the only true leftist leaders. Bring back Allende 
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Nov 18, 2016 18:17
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bump_fn posted:bernie is leading dem outreach in the senate and chuck loving schumer endorsed ellison for DNC chair Oh right I was thinking Chuck is going to be 2020 VP canidate. The older wiser white dude who will help the young firebrand president with the nitty gritty of DC cogwork. A less fun biden
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Nov 18, 2016 18:18
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Al! posted:i could never have guessed that misogyny was at the heart of all of this disproportionate hate for lena dunham..... Woah better reevaluate my positions She repeatedly molested her sister and faced zero consequences except some twitter snark. If the dems want their message to be popular they probably shouldn't choose unrepentant child molesters to deliver it
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Nov 18, 2016 18:19
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comingafteryouall posted:Hell yeah, let's put together a heist to steal Peter Thiel's immortality secrets and use them to resurrect the only true leftist leaders. That idea already says it excludes non-profits
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Nov 18, 2016 18:19
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NumberLast posted:Bring back Allende I had to briefly read up on Allende to remember which military junta deposed him. All of that history starts to blend together unless you've been reading about it recently. Please dear god don't let our democracy devolve into South American 20th century politics.
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Nov 18, 2016 18:20
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loquacius posted:they literally made up a "leadership position" for him that can be described as "chairman of getting people to pay attention to us" Schumer was cynically trying to push off Bernie into a position where he could exploit the great messaging, while in the background the Senate Dems could continue not having to change any of their awful policy agendas. In reality, Bernie so far has been using his new media platform to say that guys like Schumer shouldn't be in charge of the party any more. Chuck created a public face that's calling for his own undoing.
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Nov 18, 2016 18:20
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