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Mavric posted:The largest bloc are merely okay with unapologetic racism. I'd wager most of them feel uncomfortable at the idea that they are racist, which is a different tier from racist and proud of it.
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Nov 19, 2016 05:10
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Guy Goodbody posted:I swear to god, if I hear one more person say Trump won because of racism, I will be upset by that. Haven't heard anyone say he won because of racism, though plenty are calling his voters racist and many of them are. He won in spite of racism and in spite of being Trump because dems failed in many ways and also many of his voters live in denial and chose to disbelieve every Trump accusation (or statement/behavior of his own - "facts are racist", "locker room talk", etc..) as unfounded/unproven while every Hillary accusation was 100% fact.
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Nov 19, 2016 05:12
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Fojar38 posted:I'd wager most of them feel uncomfortable at the idea that they are racist, which is a different tier from racist and proud of it. I feel uneasy about this, and that's an important distinction *burns cross*
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Nov 19, 2016 05:13
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Lemming posted:I feel uneasy about this, and that's an important distinction *burns cross* Yep, no difference between rust belt voter with cognitive dissonance and a literal Klansman.
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Nov 19, 2016 05:14
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Fojar38 posted:Yep, no difference between rust belt voter with cognitive dissonance and a literal Klansman. Nobody who voted for Trump has ever or will ever, under any circumstances, vote for a Democrat. Any theoretical distinction between the two is irrelevant.
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Nov 19, 2016 05:16
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No you are right, the largest group does not think they are racist. I've grown up with these people and still have them friended on facebook, they all are living examples of "I'm not racist, but..." They aren't racist, but they are pretty racist in effect, I don't know what to do about it.
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Nov 19, 2016 05:17
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Guy Goodbody posted:I swear to god, if I hear one more person say Trump won because of racism, I will be upset by that. The Southern Strategy was a real thing. Those same reliable Republican voters are a large part of his turnout. Lemming posted:Nobody who voted for Trump has ever or will ever, under any circumstances, vote for a Democrat. Any theoretical distinction between the two is irrelevant. No. There are reactionary people who got their hopes up about Obama and were disappointed. A friend of mine lives in a town full of them. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry...4b099512f804de2
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Nov 19, 2016 05:18
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A lot of them just don't believe he's racist. None of what he's said on video is provably racist to them and the large list of articles pointing out racist things he's said and done are second hand or really old and happened in a time when everyone talked like that and didn't get their panties in a bunch over race-based humor like you pussy kids today! The sexism was just "locker room talk" of course. Polls found that 47% of likely voters thought he is racist and only 7% of his supporters thought he is racist: http://www.mediaite.com/online/guess-how-many-of-trumps-own-supporters-think-that-hes-a-racist/ Of course how many people were just lying on the poll is questionable and also "polls, LOL, TRUMP"
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Nov 19, 2016 05:19
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Nevvy Z posted:The Southern Strategy was a real thing. Those same reliable Republican voters are a large part of his turnout. The important point is that Trump got all the guaranteed Republican voters and virtually nobody else, while the Democrats lost the election because they spent the whole time masturbating to their voter models instead of doing things like "having a message" or "reaching out to their base"
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Nov 19, 2016 05:20
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Lemming posted:The important point is that Trump got all the guaranteed Republican voters and virtually nobody else, while the Democrats lost the election because they spent the whole time masturbating to their voter models instead of doing things like "having a message" or "reaching out to their base" No. There are reactionary people who got their hopes up about Obama and were disappointed. A friend of mine lives in a town full of them. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry...4b099512f804de2
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Nov 19, 2016 05:21
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Mavric posted:No you are right, the largest group does not think they are racist. I've grown up with these people and still have them friended on facebook, they all are living examples of "I'm not racist, but..." Really it's just something that will change slowly over time. The South has a lot higher bar for what they consider racist. They're still patting each other on the back over not trying to kill our first black President. They even let blacks marry whites now, don't ya know. ...and some, I assume, are not racist. Can't count how many "They're not racist, we elected Obama twice!" type statements I've read over the last week or two.
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Nov 19, 2016 05:23
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Nevvy Z posted:No. There are reactionary people who got their hopes up about Obama and were disappointed. A friend of mine lives in a town full of them. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry...4b099512f804de2 Technically if I tell you that I'm serving you some canned cranberry sauce during Thanksgiving dinner I'm lying because there's also some percentage of it that is bugs and feces, but it's not enough to matter and even by bringing it up I'm throwing appropriate context for the conversation out the window Not enough people flipped to matter. What did matter is all the people who didn't show up this time because the Democrats couldn't articulate to them a reason to show up.
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Nov 19, 2016 05:23
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Gotten a little tired of just screaming online about things. I'm going to go to my local church tomorrow and talk with the Priests there. See if we can't organize something to help protect our Muslim and Jewish brethren as they may be under attack with this rise in nationalism. Not sure what or that they'll listen to me, but it's the first thing my mind went to so I guess I'll try it out. Maybe I can atleast organize some effort on a local level to do some good. I'm not sure why I posted this, but I did. Guess I'm quietly asking if this will matter, but whatever.
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Nov 19, 2016 05:27
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Lemming posted:Nobody who voted for Trump has ever or will ever, under any circumstances, vote for a Democrat. Any theoretical distinction between the two is irrelevant. That's factually false but whatever.
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Nov 19, 2016 05:30
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Covok posted:Gotten a little tired of just screaming online about things. I'm going to go to my local church tomorrow and talk with the Priests there. See if we can't organize something to help protect our Muslim and Jewish brethren as they may be under attack with this rise in nationalism. Not sure what or that they'll listen to me, but it's the first thing my mind went to so I guess I'll try it out. Maybe I can atleast organize some effort on a local level to do some good. I'm no expert but as far as I can tell, things only happen if people show up. If you show up somewhere, you're doing more than 99% of people in this thread. I'm trying to do the same thing, I went to my local Democratic party meeting on Wednesday and I signed up with a few clubs, and I'm going to another one on Monday. I still have a very poor idea of what I'm doing but it's more than I was doing last week. Thanks for making an effort.
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Nov 19, 2016 05:32
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Guy Goodbody posted:I swear to god, if I hear one more person say Trump won because of racism, I will be upset by that. Well it did help.
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Nov 19, 2016 05:33
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Lemming posted:Nobody who voted for Trump has ever or will ever, under any circumstances, vote for a Democrat. Any theoretical distinction between the two is irrelevant. CLINTON GOT A SMALLER PERCENTAGE OF THE BLACK AND LATINO VOTES THAN OBAMA
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Nov 19, 2016 05:35
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Trabisnikof posted:That's factually false but whatever. The only possible indication I've seen is flipped counties but I haven't seen evidence that people voted for Obama then voted for Trump in large numbers. It seems way more likely it just represented a shift in who showed up. Do you have any evidence that individual voters flipped?
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Nov 19, 2016 05:36
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Guy Goodbody posted:CLINTON GOT A SMALLER PERCENTAGE OF THE BLACK AND LATINO VOTES THAN OBAMA All the info I can find indicates that fewer black people voted, which can mean that the ones who voted Democrat were less likely to show up (and the ones targeted for voter suppression were poorer), and again, I'm talking about individual voters. My hypothesis is you aren't getting people flipping, you're getting demographics flipping, which just means that people who vote Democrat voted less and people who voted Republican voted more. Edit: the few people who voted Obama then Trump are so brain-dead and capricious trying to target them in any way would be a huge mistake regardless, both because nobody could possibly understand them plus there are ten of them
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Nov 19, 2016 05:42
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Lemming posted:Nobody who voted for Trump has ever or will ever, under any circumstances, vote for a Democrat. Any theoretical distinction between the two is irrelevant. everyone point and laugh at how stupid this person is http://er.ncsbe.gov/?election_dt=11/08/2016&county_id=78&office=ALL&contest=1001 http://results.enr.clarityelections.com/NC/42923/123365/Web01/en/summary.html https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/table/PST045215/37155,00 that's a county that's less than a third white which voted 58-41 for obama in 2012 which trump won by nearly 5% it's also the site of an armed confrontation where the kkk was kicked out
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Nov 19, 2016 05:43
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Lemming posted:All the info I can find indicates that fewer black people voted, which can mean that the ones who voted Democrat were less likely to show up (and the ones targeted for voter suppression were poorer), and again, I'm talking about individual voters. Try googling 2016 election demographics and clicking on the first result. Your hypothesis is wrong 
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Nov 19, 2016 05:51
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The Muppets On PCP posted:everyone point and laugh at how stupid this person is If you look at the numbers compared to 3,000 fewer people voted overall and Trump only got about 3,000 more votes total (from 17.5k Romney to 20.3k Trump) so the percentages not only look a lot worse, but with only about 50% voter participation it's, again, way more likely that Democratic voters just didn't show up and a few more Republican voters did than people switched from Obama to Trump in large numbers.
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Nov 19, 2016 05:52
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Fojar38 posted:I'd wager most of them feel uncomfortable at the idea that they are racist, which is a different tier from racist and proud of it. I think the difference is that they are (mostly) unaffected by racism, so it becomes a non-issue to them, or at least impersonal.
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Nov 19, 2016 05:57
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Guy Goodbody posted:Try googling 2016 election demographics and clicking on the first result. Your hypothesis is wrong I have an election. 10 people can vote. Persons 1, 2, and 3 vote D. Persons 4 and 5 vote R. 6-10 don't vote. I have another election. Persons 1 and 2 vote D. Persons 4, 5, and 6 vote R. 3 didn't show up this time and 6 did. The fact that no individual flipped their vote isn't reflected in the statistics.
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Nov 19, 2016 05:59
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Lemming posted:I have an election. 10 people can vote. Persons 1, 2, and 3 vote D. Persons 4 and 5 vote R. 6-10 don't vote. Are you basing your "no Trump voter ever voted for a Democrat" theory on anything besides your feelings?
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Nov 19, 2016 06:02
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Guy Goodbody posted:Are you basing your "no Trump voter ever voted for a Democrat" theory on anything besides your feelings? http://www.csmonitor.com/layout/set/amphtml/USA/Politics/2015/1213/Why-swing-voters-are-vanishing-from-US-politics Swing voters used to exist but they don't anymore Edit: plus the fact that, again, if there was a significant flip then Trump would be beating Romney's total significantly instead of barely because the R base bent the knee completely Lemming fucked around with this message at 06:08 on Nov 19, 2016 |
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Nov 19, 2016 06:05
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So I guess the lesson Democrats should take from this election, then, is "once again... but into the camera, with tension."
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Nov 19, 2016 06:12
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Lemming posted:http://www.csmonitor.com/layout/set/amphtml/USA/Politics/2015/1213/Why-swing-voters-are-vanishing-from-US-politics Literally the entire point of that article is there are fewer swing voters now than there used to be. If what you meant to say was "no one who voted Trump would have voted for any Democrat this election", then apologize for mis-stating your position and lay out your actual position and then we can argue about that.
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Nov 19, 2016 06:13
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カット! カット! カット! 頼むよ! <-- the American electorate
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Nov 19, 2016 06:13
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Kilroy posted:カット! カット! カット! 頼むよ! <-- the American electorate Im just going to assume that is  in
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Nov 19, 2016 06:18
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Guy Goodbody posted:Literally the entire point of that article is there are fewer swing voters now than there used to be. If what you meant to say was "no one who voted Trump would have voted for any Democrat this election", then apologize for mis-stating your position and lay out your actual position and then we can argue about that. I didn't misstate anything. Swing voters are dead. Trump voters showed their true colors by voting for a racist orange dildo, but the election was lost because Democrats didn't turn out their base. Republicans would have voted for any other Republican in the same numbers, as evidenced by Trump getting roughly the same number of votes as Romney.
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Nov 19, 2016 06:20
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Uh Trump pretty obviously won because of racism. If you can't recognize that you have no business pretending you know anything about the USA
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Nov 19, 2016 06:23
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blamegame posted:Uh Trump pretty obviously won because of racism. If you can't recognize that you have no business pretending you know anything about the USA This person disagrees with you, studied it, and wrote a book about it. So, what makes you an expert?
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Nov 19, 2016 06:26
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oh okay cool (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Nov 19, 2016 06:27
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Majorian posted:They may not pony up once they're elected, but I fundamentally reject the notion that the party that got a black dude name Barack Hussein Obama elected twice, can't find a candidate who can balance all the essential components of the Dem coalition in 2020. I sure wouldn't. Obama came to prominence in 2004, so we should already have some idea who this great 2020 candidate would be. Cory Booker ain't it, either. Neither is Julian Castro.
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Nov 19, 2016 06:28
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blamegame posted:Uh Trump pretty obviously won because of racism. If you can't recognize that you have no business pretending you know anything about the USA hmm, i disagree as evidence: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bkm2Vfj42FY&t=631s
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Nov 19, 2016 06:28
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blamegame posted:Uh Trump pretty obviously won because of racism. If you can't recognize that you have no business pretending you know anything about the USA Racism probably put him over the edge, but it's hard imagine a counterfactual where the upper working class/lower-middle class turn out for Trump even as their incomes, health, job security, etc. rise. Part of it is definitely due to a lost sense of status, with all the racial implications. Trump's victory is basically the Romney vote + increased rural turnout + the activation of the disaffected lakeshore working class + relatively poor turnout for Clinton in key states. The thing I've really see no one talk about is how Romney men and women (often college educated!) still turned out for Trump. It's a loving shaky coalition.
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Nov 19, 2016 06:29
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Lemming posted:I didn't misstate anything. Swing voters are dead. Trump voters showed their true colors by voting for a racist orange dildo, but the election was lost because Democrats didn't turn out their base. Republicans would have voted for any other Republican in the same numbers, as evidenced by Trump getting roughly the same number of votes as Romney. When you say swing voters are dead, do you mean that you think all the swing voters died? They didn't ossify into solid D or solid R voters, all the swing voters are dead? Because that's the only way your argument that no Trump voter ever would've voted for a Democrat in the past makes sense blamegame posted:Uh Trump pretty obviously won because of racism. If you can't recognize that you have no business pretending you know anything about the USA Clinton got a smaller percentage of the black and Latino votes than Obama.
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Nov 19, 2016 06:34
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Would it be fair to say that the buy-in for a Trump vote was, at the very least, uncaring soft bigotry, if not quite full-white-hooded racism? I feel like his candidacy was a crucible for "Respectable Republicans" who voted for Romney and then had the choice whether to vote for someone so super-mega-racist or sit it out.
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Nov 19, 2016 06:34
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blamegame posted:Uh Trump pretty obviously won because of racism. If you can't recognize that you have no business pretending you know anything about the USA The only reason he got that many votes is because his voters are racist enough that they were willing to vote for the openly racist ding dong, but it's important to stress it wasn't the only reason. Americans are just as racist as they were 4 and 8 years ago, but the Democrats got the presidency because they have a larger base and had a good enough candidate with a good enough message to beat the racist candidates. We lost this time because the message was nonexistent and the candidate was bad. I'm concerned the takeaway will be either "racism is too strong! We can't beat it!" or "racism is too strong! We have to appeal to the racists!" when the takeaway should be that we need to actually focus on the base (which includes the white working poor in the Rust Belt who aren't virulent racists) and give them a message that resonates and a candidate who can convey that message.
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Nov 19, 2016 06:36
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