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Unormal posted:more jobs, less bullshit, no comprimise Well you got my vote. Deadulus posted:I understand this angle. Record it. Submit the information. Become the next 49% moment.
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Nov 19, 2016 08:30
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Deadulus posted:That's true. Voter suppression is the primary culprit there, a holdover from when the Dixiecrats held down the blacks with Jim Crow laws, just less colorblind because most poor in Alabama are going to be black anyway.
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Nov 19, 2016 08:30
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citybeatnik posted:We are a tiny minority and should not be catered to. That's the going thought. The amount of ratfuckery I saw here tamping down on it shows otherwise. We're a minorty, but in a place where the majority has little knowledge of politics, but realize the media is peddling bullshit, people like us are who are turned to. People like us are those who are willing to do the boring politicking and volunteering and ground work for campaigns they believe in. It's like when companies are chasing cool. They don't go after what the majority of kids are doing, they go after the kids that are seen as taste makers, that the majority of kids listen to. The Tea Party is a minorty also, but rather than making GBS threads on them, they got co-opted. And it had its flaws, but also has paid benefits.
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Nov 19, 2016 08:32
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Trabisnikof posted:Now say that all in six words or less. We the People
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Nov 19, 2016 08:32
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foobardog posted:That's the going thought. The amount of ratfuckery I saw here tamping down on it shows otherwise. We're a minorty, but in a place where the majority has little knowledge of politics, but realize the media is peddling bullshit, people like us are who are turned to. People like us are those who are willing to do the boring politicking and volunteering and ground work for campaigns they believe in. The Tea Party is also an astroturf movement. If you want to set up a blue version of it I'm down. *EDIT* And how many of us actually convinced a bunch of people to vote? Save for those doing god's work out there with canvasing?
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Nov 19, 2016 08:34
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Yeah I am not expecting Alabama to go blue but the Democratic Party here went bankrupt. Here there is literally no one coming to help in the next few decades. The poor people don't even have the hope of the minority party coming through for them.
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Nov 19, 2016 08:34
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Trabisnikof posted:Now say that all in six words or less. The Great Society.
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Nov 19, 2016 08:35
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foobardog posted:The Great Society. L'Union Fait La Force.
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Nov 19, 2016 08:36
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citybeatnik posted:The Tea Party is also an astroturf movement. If you want to set up a blue version of it I'm down. People generally want to vote, you just need to minimize the leg work for them. I had friends leaving a con early so they can go caucus and things like that. And then when I showed up, there was no room to caucus because way more people showed than could possibly fit in the building.
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Nov 19, 2016 08:39
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citybeatnik posted:L'Union Fait La Force. Out of many, one. Someone should write that down or something.
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Nov 19, 2016 08:41
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foobardog posted:People generally want to vote, you just need to minimize the leg work for them. I had friends leaving a con early so they can go caucus and things like that. And then when I showed up, there was no room to caucus because way more people showed than could possibly fit in the building. But did they vote later on? Did they commit to the drudgery that is actual politics? Like, I sat through the Travis County Democratic Party's meeting on Thursday. The public comments alternated between "yes this is inspiring" and either campaigning or fringe stuff - I basically tuned out each time some starry eyed white college kid got up there to talk about generalities or idealism or "we need to true the vote and/or convince the electoral college to throw this for Clinton". That didn't stop me from volunteering this Sunday for data entry work because it's needed. But I'm coming at this from a civic republican line of thought where it doesn't matter how inspiring or uninspiring things are - you just do the right thing.
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Nov 19, 2016 08:43
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I mean hell I think the dems should go way more economic populist too, I think that's a great central message and it doesn't have to be racist. But like, if you're looking at the 2016 election, the entire history: how Trump rose from the guy who said the black prez was a fake American to being the guy who won the South Carolina primary largely thanks to people who thought the confederacy should have won, to being the guy endorsed by David Duke and the senator named after Jefferson Davis and P. G. T. Beauregard and you're thinking 'Yeah this isn't about race' you're a loving idiot.
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Nov 19, 2016 08:44
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Basically, understand that the Democratic Party grew fat and lazy leaning on party machines and general expectations of media support. As those machines have lost power, so too have they. TV and now the Internet took discussion back into the hands of us morons, and rather than grapple with that, they made superdelegates, and supported Law and Order since it marginalized the left.
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Nov 19, 2016 08:45
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foobardog posted:Basically, understand that the Democratic Party grew fat and lazy leaning on party machines and general expectations of media support. As those machines have lost power, so too have they. To be fair, if the GOP had super-delegates we wouldn't have gotten Trump.
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Nov 19, 2016 08:46
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citybeatnik posted:But did they vote later on? Did they commit to the drudgery that is actual politics? It's really tough to say because unlike most states, Washington makes it much easier to vote through mail in voting. But from what I've seen most of my friends voted, and I definitely made sure my roommates voted.
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Nov 19, 2016 08:47
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foobardog posted:Basically, understand that the Democratic Party grew fat and lazy leaning on party machines and general expectations of media support. As those machines have lost power, so too have they. A) Superdelegates have been around since the 80's B) Superdelegates were never a decisive factor in anything this election.
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Nov 19, 2016 08:48
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citybeatnik posted:To be fair, if the GOP had super-delegates we wouldn't have gotten Trump. Yeah. Yeah. But I'm tired of only right wing bad populism winning. Give me the American Lenin rather than the American Mussolini. 
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Nov 19, 2016 08:48
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How about no American versions of infamous dictators
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Nov 19, 2016 08:50
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Fojar38 posted:A) Superdelegates have been around since the 80's I'm less talking about superdelegates in particular, and more at the bullshit primary system that has more to do with endorsements and media attention than the actual contests.
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Nov 19, 2016 08:51
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foobardog posted:It's really tough to say because unlike most states, Washington makes it much easier to vote through mail in voting. But from what I've seen most of my friends voted, and I definitely made sure my roommates voted. Texas has no-fault early voting. Most states do not. Trying to explain that to my folks when they started going on about why make it easier to vote when it's already easy at least opened their eyes a bit. I'd get behind a push to make no-fault early voting mandatory on a national level. foobardog posted:Yeah. Yeah. But I'm tired of only right wing bad populism winning. Give me the American Lenin rather than the American Mussolini. Lenin was helped by Germany during WWi because they wanted him to weaken a rival. So. You know. Something to think about. *EDIT* Fojar38 posted:How about no American versions of infamous dictators Basically this.
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Nov 19, 2016 08:51
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Fojar38 posted:How about no American versions of infamous dictators Too late! Because liberals were so up their asses to take 2016 seriously enough!
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Nov 19, 2016 08:52
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blamegame posted:I mean hell I think the dems should go way more economic populist too, I think that's a great central message and it doesn't have to be racist. But like, if you're looking at the 2016 election, the entire history: how Trump rose from the guy who said the black prez was a fake American to being the guy who won the South Carolina primary largely thanks to people who thought the confederacy should have won, to being the guy endorsed by David Duke and the senator named after Jefferson Davis and P. G. T. Beauregard and you're thinking 'Yeah this isn't about race' you're a loving idiot. The next few years will be a testiment to just how deep the denial of racism goes in this country as Ttump and his monsters do their damnedest to turn back the clock to the 1950s.
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Nov 19, 2016 08:53
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citybeatnik posted:Texas has no-fault early voting. Most states do not. Trying to explain that to my folks when they started going on about why make it easier to vote when it's already easy at least opened their eyes a bit. Yeah, they are bad examples. I'm just angry. I let liberals soothe me and they let me down. Just ugh.
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Nov 19, 2016 08:54
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I loving hate all the right-wing concern trolling and pseudo-skepticism invading the Internet right now. It's rotting my brain. These people have so much confirmation bias I don't even know where to begin forming a sentence to them. Even some of my friends are starting to act sympathetic to it.
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Nov 19, 2016 08:55
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foobardog posted:Yeah, they are bad examples. I'm just angry. I let liberals soothe me and they let me down. Just ugh. Clinical detachment helps on my end with that. As well as an understanding that as a well off mostly white guy I have the luxury of being clinically detached. But since I'm not about to see someone in a major party run on the Categorical Imperative platform I'll take what I can get.
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Nov 19, 2016 08:56
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Cup Runneth Over posted:I loving hate all the right-wing concern trolling and pseudo-skepticism invading the Internet right now. It's rotting my brain. These people have so much confirmation bias I don't even know where to begin forming a sentence to them. Even some of my friends are starting to act sympathetic to it. I hear that poo poo in real life and barely prevent myself from going off on them. Apparently, minorities not quietly sitting by as they slit our throats is this one story they'd heard is far more offensive than the thousands of hate crimes in the wake of Trump.
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Nov 19, 2016 08:57
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Deadulus posted:I understand this angle. The only thing people hate more than being the fool is having that pointed out to them. It's the same as with any scam or con: once a person's fallen for it, they're going to continue pouring themselves into it, against all evidence and advice, in the vain hope they were right after all see look it all paid off in the end, I told you I wasn't being dumb. Cup Runneth Over posted:I loving hate all the right-wing concern trolling and pseudo-skepticism invading the Internet right now. It's rotting my brain. These people have so much confirmation bias I don't even know where to begin forming a sentence to them. Even some of my friends are starting to act sympathetic to it. Yeah, it makes my head spin just reading their comments. I don't know how I'd be able to deal with it if I had to listen to it in person.
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Nov 19, 2016 08:59
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z0glin Warchief posted:The only thing people hate more than being the fool is having that pointed out to them. Yep, and for all his flaws, Trump knows how to con people.
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Nov 19, 2016 09:02
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foobardog posted:Yep, and for all his flaws, Trump knows how to con people. It blows my mind since he's such an obvious con man. I figure it has to be like those Nigerian scammers that intentionally make it really obvious they're a scam so they only grab the most gullible people so they don't waste time with anyone who has a chance of coming to their senses
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Nov 19, 2016 09:07
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z0glin Warchief posted:To be fair, people expected her to lack charisma, they didn't expect her to have massively incompetent resource allocation. It's not like she couldn't have won handily despite the charisma gap, had she just put her efforts in the right places (ie, not Georgia).* There's states that the campaign was focused on that she lost, too. It's not as easy as 'she forgot where to campaign'.
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Nov 19, 2016 09:16
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Lemming posted:It blows my mind since he's such an obvious con man. I figure it has to be like those Nigerian scammers that intentionally make it really obvious they're a scam so they only grab the most gullible people so they don't waste time with anyone who has a chance of coming to their senses He's not a particularly good conman, but he really doesn't have to be. He knows to target the Republican base who has been trained to worship wealthy bullies, desire validation for their fears and hatred, and to reject any dissenting voices. Combined with the various fake scandals, aid from Putin, the traitorous levels of GOP obstruction, and the miserable state of education in rural areas and you get the perfect marks for a crappy orange troll to coast to dominance.
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Nov 19, 2016 09:16
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foobardog posted:I'm less talking about superdelegates in particular, and more at the bullshit primary system that has more to do with endorsements and media attention than the actual contests. Why does it have to do more with endorsements do you really think the average voter cares about them that much?
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Nov 19, 2016 09:32
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foobardog posted:Yep, and for all his flaws, Trump knows how to con people. thats also a flaw imo
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Nov 19, 2016 09:40
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Pedro De Heredia posted:There's states that the campaign was focused on that she lost, too. It's not as easy as 'she forgot where to campaign'. Oh for sure, but the margins were so thin in some of those (mostly PA/FL in particular, I think?) that a more focused effort would've had a very high potential for flipping them. And again, I'm not saying that was the only, or even primary, factor in her losing; just one of the more unexpected ones. Low dem enthusiasm/weak messaging for Clinton was generally pretty accepted as being a thing, for example (if not enough to make her lose), but there was hardly anyone talking about her campaign machine/ground game that wasn't saying how impressive it was. socialsecurity posted:Why does it have to do more with endorsements do you really think the average voter cares about them that much? I don't think "the average voter" even votes in primaries. Primary voters might care more about that stuff. Either way, endorsements can matter a lot when trying to fight for name recognition/legitimacy, which is a big part of trying to win a national election as a relatively unknown senator up against one of the most well-known names in politics.
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Nov 19, 2016 09:44
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z0glin Warchief posted:The only thing people hate more than being the fool is having that pointed out to them. Yeah you are right. It just sickens me. I took a drive through south west Alabama related to work. It is a horrific sight. Basically, you are driving through a third world country. Towns with buildings that have fallen down with rubble literally in the roads. People that are clearly in need of medical attention, like limping around or missing limbs. There is no hero in their story coming to help them. I mean if the politicians of Alabama gave a poo poo about these people then there would have been a failed program attempting to help them by now. That is the main reason I would like to see an attempt by the Democratic Party to try to rebuild in Alabama. At least then there might be political party that gave a poo poo about this. Right now the Democratic Party is a ghost of its former self here. Raccooon fucked around with this message at 10:08 on Nov 19, 2016 |
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Nov 19, 2016 09:51
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foobardog posted:Yeah. Yeah. But I'm tired of only right wing bad populism winning. Give me the American Lenin rather than the American Mussolini.  American Lenin is still a terrible thing
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Nov 19, 2016 09:54
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Trump will be the American Trump, not Lenin or Mussolini.
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Nov 19, 2016 09:59
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socialsecurity posted:Why does it have to do more with endorsements do you really think the average voter cares about them that much? That's exactly the problem. Voters don't care, but the media and party flacks care. Primaries until recently have been mainly a show that is "decided" by Super Tuesday when the media declares a presumptive nominee, and the endorsed candidate drops out. Yes, there were truly contested primaries in the past, but from 1980 to 2008, they were just a slight show election making up for smoke filled rooms. E: Basically, the primary system is a lie to make people feel better. While it being more democratic may lead to poo poo heads sailing through it, like in the Republican primary, they at least actually have the support of some group of voters. foobardog fucked around with this message at 10:13 on Nov 19, 2016 |
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Nov 19, 2016 10:10
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z0glin Warchief posted:Oh for sure, but the margins were so thin in some of those (mostly PA/FL in particular, I think?) that a more focused effort would've had a very high potential for flipping them. Polls showed her winning Pennsylvania with anywhere from 3-7%. She still campaigned there, and still lost. Polls showed her losing Ohio narrowly; she lost by like 10%. She campaigned there too. There was a pretty clear rejection of Clinton's candidacy besides just the strategy, IMO. I don't know how salvadgeable that would have been by ground game strategy. I agree with you that the ground game and campaign were actually not good. They should have been able to pick up on these things, these voter movements. Seems pretty clear they took certain things for granted. Pedro De Heredia fucked around with this message at 11:00 on Nov 19, 2016 |
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Nov 19, 2016 10:25
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I have trouble with the idea the response, when I've seen people criticize things like superdelegates, primaries are run by private parties, so they can be as anti-democratic as they want to be. By that logic, there's nothing stopping the Republican Party and Democratic Party from just agreeing to not hold primaries and just nominating the same candidate... is there?
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Nov 19, 2016 10:38
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