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N. Senada posted:I don't think his supporters will respond with disappointment. Maybe a few, but the most will see him as standing up to these liberal, PC thugs. He's strong when he gets people to capitulate to him, he's strong when he points out how protestors are paid for actors, he's strong when he says Hamilton should apologize for their egregious comment to the president-elect. His supporters are all about persecution complexes so they see Trump as a mighty leader being attacked by those evil leftists since that's what they believe themselves to be. So anyone questioning their master just makes them support him even harder and keep on hoping that he'll magically fix all their problems by being the strongman they demanded. They don't understand anything outside their backyards and right wing media is not about to help them there, so they see what Trump is doing as not simply normal, but a heroic denial of the society they think abandoned them. Everybody hating him and/or them only proves that they are doing the right thing in their minds. Bottom line is, we're looking at a self-destructive group that not only does not consider America eating itself to be a bad thing, but actually demands it out of spite and delusion.
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Nov 19, 2016 22:03
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McCain says he'll take Trump to court "in a New York minute" if he tries to reinstate waterboarding
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Nov 19, 2016 22:03
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Fojar38 posted:McCain says he'll take Trump to court "in a New York minute" if he tries to reinstate waterboarding Hey cool, its our once annual 'John McCain proves he isn't entirely a piece of poo poo' moment.
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Nov 19, 2016 22:05
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Fojar38 posted:McCain says he'll take Trump to court "in a New York minute" if he tries to reinstate waterboarding Finally Democrats are showing some backbone!
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Nov 19, 2016 22:05
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Caros posted:Hey cool, its our once annual 'John McCain proves he isn't entirely a piece of poo poo' moment. So we have to hope that other Republicans have this bare minimum level of morality and spine to prevent full dictatorship now? I really want to move to Canada now.
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Nov 19, 2016 22:07
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deathbysnusnu posted:The only question I really have about her is she a creationist? We're going to go balls out on full charter school voucher madness no matter what. No, but curriculum decisions get made at the state level.
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Nov 19, 2016 22:08
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If you want to know what the future of public schools are going to be like then look at New Orleans which is I think still the only almost completely privatized system run by charters in the nation.
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Nov 19, 2016 22:08
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Geostomp posted:So we have to hope that other Republicans have this bare minimum level of morality and spine to prevent full dictatorship now? Don't worry: there's actually no hope that any significant number of Republicans will defect. Also John McCain will probably back down on this if push comes to shove.
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Nov 19, 2016 22:08
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Carlosologist posted:The privatization of public education is coming soon. And just as I'm about to finish my teaching degree My brother is a public school teacher for students with special needs. My brother is also a Trump supporter. I don't have the heart to pick at that. Mustached Demon posted:I take solace in Medicare and Social security also getting privatized and their beneficiaries equally hosed. Republicans aren't dumb. They know it's political suicide to privatize medicare and social security. The privatization won't kick in until well after any political consequence will affect them and the current lot of medicare/SS recipients are ok with that. Why you won't hear anything from old people lobbies when Paul Ryan makes his putsch for privatization.
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Nov 19, 2016 22:13
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Fojar38 posted:McCain says he'll take Trump to court "in a New York minute" if he tries to reinstate waterboarding So I've heard conflicting opinions on McCain over the years. The press had called him a Maverick a long, long time ago, but by the time 2008 rolled around he was widely regarded as a Republican party stooge. Some people say his loss to Bush in the 2000 primaries broke his brain and made him start drinking the Republican cool aid, other people say that he was always a piece of poo poo and simply had a better relationship with the press during his "Maverick" days. In either case, how likely is it that McCain would actively oppose some of Trump's more insane or dangerous proposals that are supported by other Republicans?
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Nov 19, 2016 22:14
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Hollismason posted:If you want to know what the future of public schools are going to be like then look at New Orleans which is I think still the only almost completely privatized system run by charters in the nation. Is it exactly like I assume? Illusion of choice unless you're so well off enough that you could afford traditional private schools anyway?
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Nov 19, 2016 22:14
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I'm inclined to give McCain a little more lee away these days as it's obviously his last six years in public office (that dude old). McCain generally fails the same test that all the GOP does, that he's a moral hypocrite. That said, morals as a rule are complete bullshit, so if the GOP stands out in their moral failures its because they cloak themselves in them, not that they fail them. Boon fucked around with this message at 22:17 on Nov 19, 2016 |
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Nov 19, 2016 22:15
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Bueno Papi posted:My brother is a public school teacher for students with special needs. My brother is also a Trump supporter. I don't have the heart to pick at that. Oh I know nothing matters all Obama's fault. Oh McCain's one good redeeming quality is his stance against torture. For some reason he's empathic there.
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Nov 19, 2016 22:15
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Mustached Demon posted:Is it exactly like I assume? Illusion of choice unless you're so well off enough that you could afford traditional private schools anyway? http://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/23/opinion/sunday/the-myth-of-the-new-orleans-school-makeover.html http://inthesetimes.com/article/18352/10-years-after-katrina-new-orleans-all-charter-district-has-proven-a-failur In short, they are a loving disaster that have traded graduation rates for an actually effective education, so dim-witted and evil people are touting them as "miracles". It's hell.
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Nov 19, 2016 22:23
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God of Evil Cows posted:So I've heard conflicting opinions on McCain over the years. The press had called him a Maverick a long, long time ago, but by the time 2008 rolled around he was widely regarded as a Republican party stooge. Some people say his loss to Bush in the 2000 primaries broke his brain and made him start drinking the Republican cool aid, other people say that he was always a piece of poo poo and simply had a better relationship with the press during his "Maverick" days. In either case, how likely is it that McCain would actively oppose some of Trump's more insane or dangerous proposals that are supported by other Republicans? John McCain is a good enough person to at least be somewhat self aware, so from time to time he says things that sound very reasonable. The problem is that he doesn't break from the GOP enough when it matters, so the only practical effect is that you end up with a lot liberals who think of him as "one of the good ones."
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Nov 19, 2016 22:28
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Mustached Demon posted:Oh I know nothing matters all Obama's fault. McCain has supported torture in the past when it was politically convenient. I will grant that McCain is capable of having a conscience when he's in the mood for one, which sets him apart from a lot of other elected Republicans.
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Nov 19, 2016 22:31
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Fojar38 posted:McCain says he'll take Trump to court "in a New York minute" if he tries to reinstate waterboarding How is that gonna work if all that stuff would be classified and state secrets and national security and all that? Surely any secret court that would allow wiretapping would probably be okay with waterboarding
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Nov 19, 2016 22:35
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Paradoxish posted:John McCain is a good enough person to at least be somewhat self aware, so from time to time he says things that sound very reasonable. The problem is that he doesn't break from the GOP enough when it matters, so the only practical effect is that you end up with a lot liberals who think of him as "one of the good ones." Like most conservatives, he's only morally correct when confronted with an issue he has direct experience with. Of course he's against torture, he was loving tortured. He is still a human product of the MIC and incapable of empathy toward PoC or the poor. I'll take any allies I can get from either side right now, but let's not start falling all over ourselves over what a great guy McCain is all of a sudden. He still explicitly backed Reagonomics, he's still a climate change denier, he still hosed over cap-and-trade.
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Nov 19, 2016 22:37
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Charter schools are literal scum upon the earth, they only serve as a justification for state governments to funnel resources away from the public schools. gently caress this gay earth
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Nov 19, 2016 22:45
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Paradoxish posted:Don't worry: there's actually no hope that any significant number of Republicans will defect. Also John McCain will probably back down on this if push comes to shove. John McCain was a POW in Vietnam and has actually been subjected to literal torture. This is one thing he absolutely wouldn't back down on.
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Nov 19, 2016 22:46
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McCain's issue with Trump is also more personal than political, I've little doubt he's on board with 98% of Trump's platform, but still wants to state his opposition to some aspects because he hates the orange monster so much (and rightfully so).
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Nov 19, 2016 22:46
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Spaced God posted:How is that gonna work if all that stuff would be classified and state secrets and national security and all that? Surely any secret court that would allow wiretapping would probably be okay with waterboarding John McCain is the chairman of the Senate Armed Forces Committee.
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Nov 19, 2016 22:47
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Carlosologist posted:Charter schools are literal scum upon the earth, they only serve as a justification for state governments to funnel resources away from the public schools. To be fair maybe 10% of them are good faith efforts to give kids in neighborhoods with lovely schools a better education.
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Nov 19, 2016 22:49
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Fojar38 posted:John McCain was a POW in Vietnam and has actually been subjected to literal torture. This is one thing he absolutely wouldn't back down on. McCain has literally supported waterboarding in the past: https://thinkprogress.org/mccain-sides-with-bush-on-torture-again-supports-veto-of-anti-waterboarding-bill-d919cbc44131#.voafl530w It's basically a textbook case of how he acts when his back is to the wall. He'll say the right thing and often try to find some middle ground to occupy, but he almost always caves in and supports whatever the GOP wants in the end.
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Nov 19, 2016 22:49
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Paradoxish posted:McCain has literally supported waterboarding in the past: Man there sure is a lot of waffling in that statement about how waterboarding isn't "really" torture. Ah well.
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Nov 19, 2016 22:52
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Fojar38 posted:Man there sure is a lot of waffling in that statement about how waterboarding isn't "really" torture. Ah well. Yeah, John McCain's career is really great to follow if you enjoy constant disappointment. 
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Nov 19, 2016 22:54
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Bueno Papi posted:My brother is a public school teacher for students with special needs. My brother is also a Trump supporter. I don't have the heart to pick at that. I dunno, AARP has been surprisingly staunch on the topic in the past.
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Nov 19, 2016 23:02
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So, NPR's aired a couple interviews recently with alt-right figures and white supremacists. People are claiming that doing so is normalizing their speech and therefore giving neo-nazi speech legitimacy. I'm inclined to agree, personally. NPR put out a response about it, and it looks like their response is "we'll report on whatever we want, thanks". I'm kinda conflicted on this. Yes, freedom of speech and press is important, but I don't think I'm happy with neo-nazis and the KKK being given the same legitimacy as some inoffensive political subgroup. What's the deal with NPR these days? They used to be the only liberal/progressive choice a decade+ back, but recently they've gotten kinda lovely.
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Nov 19, 2016 23:07
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twistedmentat posted:The first time he has to go up against the White House Press Corps and actually have to answer real, hard questions is going to be amazing. Is this before or after he pulls the credits from WaPo, NYT, and others, filling the press pool with people from Infowars, Breitbart, Free Republic, and other such RWM outlets? BarbarianElephant posted:To be fair, he hasn't said he will do any worse than blocking Muslims from entering the country. Saying he will put them in camps or have them shot is just extrapolation from history. Probably won't happen in the near future but isnt violating the US constitutional principle of religious freedom just a little bit worrying? He wants a national registry. Which definitely won't be "leaked" to various right wing groups who will harass people like crazy. Fojar38 posted:Which is why it wouldn't survive a 1st Amendment challenge. Even the most conservative justices would balk at something so flagrantly unconstitutional. I'm not sure what basis you have for thinking that Japanese Internment wouldn't be upheld, again, by the current conservatives and Trump's pick. I don't believe for a second that Roberts, Alito, and Thomas would balk at internment and I doubt Kennedy would either. No idea on the liberal justices. There's absolutely a good chance at internment camps being upheld for Muslims if Trump actually tried it. Caros posted:Hey cool, its our once annual 'John McCain proves he isn't entirely a piece of poo poo' moment. This is 100% posturing. McCain's still entirely a piece of poo poo and a massive hypocrite. Carlosologist posted:Charter schools are literal scum upon the earth, they only serve as a justification for state governments to funnel resources away from the public schools. Can't teach creationism or indoctrinate children with your own religious beliefs in public schools? Just funnel all that money to private schools with no such restriction! 
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Nov 19, 2016 23:07
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Mustached Demon posted:Is it exactly like I assume? Illusion of choice unless you're so well off enough that you could afford traditional private schools anyway? I think so, this article goes into how some of the top schools in New Orleans keep undesirables out while claiming to be totally fair in their process: http://www.nola.com/education/index.ssf/2016/05/exclusive_public_schools_nola.html quote:But Audubon, Lake Forest and Lusher are among the last seven schools that don't use OneApp. Instead each deploys a unique set of requirements so complicated that parents have made spreadsheets to keep track of the steps ... Within these details are more details. Lusher applicants, for example, must submit a profile detailing the student's experience and interests in the arts, even if the student is only 4 years old. The school office will not accept applications from 11 a.m. to 1 p.m., lunchtime for prospective parents with day jobs. Private schools also don't have to provide transportation, so that alone discourages low-income kids from attending schools they can't easily get to. Add to that the fact that a lot of these schools start in pre-school, and if you don't get in at that level, your chances of going there later on are greatly diminished.
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Nov 19, 2016 23:10
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Pollyanna posted:So, NPR's aired a couple interviews recently with alt-right figures and white supremacists. People are claiming that doing so is normalizing their speech and therefore giving neo-nazi speech legitimacy. I'm inclined to agree, personally. NPR has always been frustratingly centrist "both sides deserve to be heard!" type of way, though generally facts have a liberal bias, especially when it comes to republican party.
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Nov 19, 2016 23:15
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Aren't there laws that make it negligent and illegal to not have your children sent to school? So if you are dirt poor and don't have the transportation to send your kid to school, can you get your kids taken away from you? It's such an idiotic calamity.
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Nov 19, 2016 23:15
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Evil Fluffy posted:I'm not sure what basis you have for thinking that Japanese Internment wouldn't be upheld, again, by the current conservatives and Trump's pick. I don't believe for a second that Roberts, Alito, and Thomas would balk at internment and I doubt Kennedy would either. No idea on the liberal justices. There's absolutely a good chance at internment camps being upheld for Muslims if Trump actually tried it. There's a good writeup on the New York Times by a Harvard law professor on why Korematsu is unlikely to be held up as precedent even among conservative judges. http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/21/opinion/why-korematsu-is-not-a-precedent.html?ref=opinion&_r=0
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Nov 19, 2016 23:16
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Wasn't Michelle Rhee the person who claimed a miracle by voucherizing DC schools, then people looked at her data and found out it had been totally falsified and she got fired?
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Nov 19, 2016 23:18
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Pollyanna posted:So, NPR's aired a couple interviews recently with alt-right figures and white supremacists. People are claiming that doing so is normalizing their speech and therefore giving neo-nazi speech legitimacy. I'm inclined to agree, personally. I listen to the On the Media interview with one of these white supremacists and I think it was a very good interview. Bob gave the dude enough rope to hang himself. We have to recognize that like it or not the White Supremacists are in the White House. That's their source of power not NPR interviews. We have to understand our enemy to defeat them. For example, I wasn't aware how serious their push for Covenant Cities was again (racial deed restrictions). That's a major goal for White Supremacists that could happen with a single act of congress. Hiding our head in the sand about white nationalism won't make it go away.
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Nov 19, 2016 23:18
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Evil Fluffy posted:
Charter schools are not private schools and cannot teach religious curricula quote:D-1. May a charter school be religious in nature? Charter schools are 90% garbage for lot of reasons but not for that reason.
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Nov 19, 2016 23:19
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Rexicon1 posted:Aren't there laws that make it negligent and illegal to not have your children sent to school? So if you are dirt poor and don't have the transportation to send your kid to school, can you get your kids taken away from you? It's such an idiotic calamity. "I love the poorly educated. We're the smartest people."
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Nov 19, 2016 23:21
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Stultus Maximus posted:Charter schools are not private schools and cannot teach religious curricula Yet. Trabisnikof posted:I listen to the On the Media interview with one of these white supremacists and I think it was a very good interview. Bob gave the dude enough rope to hang himself. I mean, I heard it too. I heard how utterly disgusted Bob was with him and I think every listener came away with the same feeling towards the interviewee. It's just that NPR's been kinda compromised recently just due to being the media, and wanting to play the "oo both sides are bad" bullshit, and aren't outright decrying white nationalism and supremacy. I just want someone to have enough balls to go "hey, this poo poo is wrong, and I won't stand for it", especially since the Democrats are already bending the knee to the Trump administration.
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Nov 19, 2016 23:23
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Stultus Maximus posted:Charter schools are not private schools and cannot teach religious curricula Really it a lot more neuanced than that: quote:After citing a federal law, this categorical claim is not discussed further. Reality is somewhat more nuanced. In Gary Miron’s work evaluating charter school reforms for state education agencies, he never observed religious instruction during classroom instruction, though he observed schools in which religiosity was evident—for instance, teachers, students, and parents engaged in Christian prayers at lunch time and outside the regular classroom schedule. During site visits for a state evaluation of charter schools in Michigan, a large portion of students enrolled in charter schools operated by National Heritage Academies reported that they believed they were in a Christian school. Religious charter schools do exist even if they are secular on their forms.
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Nov 19, 2016 23:27
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Fojar38 posted:Which is why it wouldn't survive a 1st Amendment challenge. Even the most conservative justices would balk at something so flagrantly unconstitutional. Pfft. Conservatives love the Constitution only when it agrees with them.
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Nov 19, 2016 23:27
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