|
.
Discendo Vox fucked around with this message at 03:32 on Jul 13, 2021 |
#
?
Nov 18, 2016 21:11
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 5, 2024 21:21 |
|
|
Discendo Vox posted:nm wins the snark comment responses again. He's got a commanding lead at this point, folks. He's not a fed, so you can stop gagging yourself on him already. did that shrink his lead any?
|
|
#
?
Nov 18, 2016 21:50
|
|
|
Lie down. Try not to object. Object alot.
|
|
#
?
Nov 18, 2016 21:55
|
|
|
CaptainScraps posted:ITT your client tries to flirt with the Judge during your prove-up and the Judge flirts back. Does the judge's last name start with a B?
|
|
#
?
Nov 18, 2016 21:59
|
|
|
Roger_Mudd posted:Does the judge's last name start with a B? Nope, it was a former cop turned judge up in Denton County. He started flipping through our 80 page divorce decree and I told him "Judge, it's 80 pages, do you think we forgot anything?" "Point taken, counselor." In other news, I had dinner last night with my cousin's fiancee, who graduated from University of Houston Law Center and passed the bar and didn't have a job. I asked what he wanted to do and he told me he wanted to be in a big firm because they made so much money. I started laughing.
|
|
#
?
Nov 18, 2016 22:30
|
|
|
.
Discendo Vox fucked around with this message at 03:32 on Jul 13, 2021 |
|
#
?
Nov 19, 2016 03:25
|
|
|
So the firm I thought I was going to work for gave the position to someone with a few years of experience so now I'm officially a 3L with nothing lined up. I'm applying to clerkships and fellowships non-stop but that feels like a shot in the dark. Most of my close networking contacts are from clinics and past jobs and have nothing for me. I go to every meet&greet I can find and am good with people but it just feels very futile as a practical matter at this point because really who would hire a 3L who they haven't worked with who can't start until bar results for this July are out many moons from now. Our career services office is uniformly useless. As a practical matter I understand why nobody would want to pay for a young attorney's equivalent of an apprenticeship period but i've taken 4 clinics and 4 externships in addition to the expected summer internships to try to minimize that. I'm just not sure what else I could be doing so I'd like to solicit advice here. I've always gotten the sense that nobody really knows how to get a job in law so even if advice is well-meaning it's not always useful. Is it too early to cold call small firms? Middle of the pack grades/moot court/secondary journal at regional T1 in Virginia, would prefer to stay mid-atlantic, prior experience and personal desire would make healthcare law or environmental compliance best but really at this point in my career i'll take anything that builds legal skills to get over the "2 years of experience" hump.
|
|
#
?
Nov 20, 2016 17:32
|
|
|
Are you looking for entry level government/ non profit work? They usually won't hire until after you have a license. The pay isn't great, but I've had tremendous success working my way up this way. I've been able to double my salary in 4 years and deal with millions of dollars in litigation now. Plus I work 40 hours a week, and when you add in vacation and holidays, I only work about 44 weeks a year. There are lots of government lawyers in this thread. Most of us will back it up as a solid career choice. I'm starting to get recruiters calling me now too. I was in a similar boat to you. Middling grades, no journal, no offers from my T2. It took until I got my license for things to fall into place. Don't be too scared about not having anything yet - a lot more doors will open once you pass the bar. If you haven't done a government internship yet, try to snag one before you graduate, or post bar.
|
|
#
?
Nov 20, 2016 17:54
|
|
|
When you go to law school how do concentrations work? For example, right now I'm majoring in Electrical Engineering and I can choose to concentrate in Digital Signal Processing or Electronics or Controls. Is that how it works with a law degree, where you can take different courses for a concentration, such as Intellectual Property?
|
|
#
?
Nov 20, 2016 18:14
|
|
|
Hot Dog Day #91 posted:Are you looking for entry level government/ non profit work? They usually won't hire until after you have a license. The pay isn't great, but I've had tremendous success working my way up this way. I've been able to double my salary in 4 years and deal with millions of dollars in litigation now. Plus I work 40 hours a week, and when you add in vacation and holidays, I only work about 44 weeks a year. I've interned at two state attorney generals and thought it was fantastic for most of the reasons you listed. I have a very low cost lifestyle that I don't anticipate inflating, am graduating without debt and have a long time CPA girlfriend who's not going to kick me to the curb so i'm not living in turmoil under a financial guillotine. The AGs seem to hire people who've been working 5-10+ years so that's definitely a long term goal, but for now I've been looking at city government for entry level stuff. Any recommendations for where else I should look? I've lurked the thread's advice on gaming the application process for local gov stuff before and found it very useful. As for entry nonprofit I feel pretty much the same way, but i've literally never seen a posting for entry level that was paid, at all. The school has a fellowship fund for people who do that kind of thing but it's definitely intended as a stop gap to inflate postgrad employment numbers and I'm not sure how long it'll be around since the ABA has been looking askance at that. In any case it's not much either but would cover expenses for a year, after that I'm not sure where I'd go if the nonprofit wouldn't move me to a paid position so I think of it as a viable but much less attractive option. I interned at a big conservation nonprofit and liked it a lot, definitely the most relaxed law atmosphere I've seen.
|
|
#
?
Nov 20, 2016 19:07
|
|
|
I would also suggest looking into clerking if you have recently graduated and are interested in government work. It's a good stopgap on your resume and also a good inroad to local government offices (i.e. DA, PD, or city solicitor type positions) if your judge has a decent reputation. It's also great writing experience and courtroom experience, even if you aren't actively practicing. You definitely learn what not to do, and I got a great background in a variety of civil and criminal issues as my judge moved assignments, in a more concrete way than I'd learned them in law school. I started clerking at the trial court level and managed to get an appellate position this year. I really love it and am probably a career clerk at this point. It's not practicing, so if you're not interested in clerking as a career I wouldn't stay more than a year or two, but I wouldn't hesitate to recommend this as a job to anyone, especially new graduates. A Game of Chess fucked around with this message at 19:22 on Nov 20, 2016 |
|
#
?
Nov 20, 2016 19:19
|
|
|
Dangerous Mind posted:When you go to law school how do concentrations work? For example, right now I'm majoring in Electrical Engineering and I can choose to concentrate in Digital Signal Processing or Electronics or Controls. Is that how it works with a law degree, where you can take different courses for a concentration, such as Intellectual Property? There's no minor/concentration/whatever. Everyone gets a JD. That said, you can take particular classes and pitch them to recruiters/interviewers - if you wanted to do IP, you'd make sure to take IP classes.
|
|
#
?
Nov 20, 2016 19:42
|
|
|
Nonexistence posted:So the firm I thought I was going to work for gave the position to someone with a few years of experience so now I'm officially a 3L with nothing lined up. I'm applying to clerkships and fellowships non-stop but that feels like a shot in the dark. Most of my close networking contacts are from clinics and past jobs and have nothing for me. I go to every meet&greet I can find and am good with people but it just feels very futile as a practical matter at this point because really who would hire a 3L who they haven't worked with who can't start until bar results for this July are out many moons from now. Our career services office is uniformly useless. Ok so we are in somewhat similar boats, a different set of circumstances led me there but it is what it is. Assuming you still want a firm job, meeting people one on one is crucial. The best way to do this is emailing alumni out of the blue asking to go out for lunch/coffee. You'd be surprised how receptive they are, even really busy partners and senior associates; I just today managed to schedule lunch with an alumnus at my school that founded a Biglaw firm. I don't care if it's law or undergrad alumni, if they went to your school and practice a subset of law that you're vaguely interested in send them an email. Meet them and tell them your situation; ideally they can point you to someone who needs an associate next year or to someone who is enthusiastic about helping young attorneys get their feet in the door. Pick a target market, get references, and make connections like an FBI agent taking down an organized crime ring. You're right that you probably can't get a firm offer right now but you can get a soft one if you meet the right people. Understand that some 2L summers with offers from even the most prestigious firms decline offers for various reasons (I was one of them). Aim to be on partners' minds when those 2017 openings pop up, because if you make a good enough personal impression they WILL contact you before they advertise a general opening, because they will want to help you out. If you know all of this sorry for wasting your time. I sure as hell didn't and it only became clear to me when an alumnus explained the hiring situation from his perspective.
|
|
#
?
Nov 20, 2016 20:03
|
|
|
my margin of victory is going to be more than most people score this week in the fantasy league just fyi
|
|
#
?
Nov 20, 2016 20:20
|
|
|
Nonexistence posted:I've interned at two state attorney generals and thought it was fantastic for most of the reasons you listed. I have a very low cost lifestyle that I don't anticipate inflating, am graduating without debt and have a long time CPA girlfriend who's not going to kick me to the curb so i'm not living in turmoil under a financial guillotine. The AGs seem to hire people who've been working 5-10+ years so that's definitely a long term goal, but for now I've been looking at city government for entry level stuff. Any recommendations for where else I should look? I've lurked the thread's advice on gaming the application process for local gov stuff before and found it very useful. I can't speak for the mid-Atlantic, but the experience requirement may vary within the same AG's office. In my state AGO, some divisions do want 5-10+ years, while others will hire straight out of law school. It really helps if you can catch them at a time of high turnover. My AGO pays below market and the legal market in my area has loosened up a lot, so there's a lot of churn going on. And it sounds like below-market salary wouldn't be as big an issue for you. Another public sector opportunity that often gets overlooked is working directly for the state agencies. You won't be in court--that's the AGO's job--but there's some interesting work in analysis and compliance, and you might actually be making more than with the AG.
|
|
#
?
Nov 20, 2016 20:55
|
|
|
Nonexistence posted:As a practical matter I understand why nobody would want to pay for a young attorney's equivalent of an apprenticeship period but i've taken 4 clinics and 4 externships in addition to the expected summer internships to try to minimize that. I'm just not sure what else I could be doing so I'd like to solicit advice here. I've always gotten the sense that nobody really knows how to get a job in law so even if advice is well-meaning it's not always useful. Is it too early to cold call small firms? Don't cold-call small firms. You'll get shuffled off. You want to email people. Definitely email alumnis and ask for meetings and career advice and ask questions about the field. And then what you tell them is this: "Who else do you think I should talk to?" and "Can I tell them you referred me?" I get a lot of loving cold calls and I hate them. If you can 1) Give them a recognizable name; and 2) make it seem like you're not job grubbing, it'll get you in the door. "Dear Mr./Ms. X, My name is Nonexistence and I'm a 3L at Law School. I'm looking to practice in healthcare law (or environmental law, depending on firm) and I'm looking for some career advice. Do you have any availability to talk about this with me?" And if you could say "X sent me" or "X recommended I speak with you" that definitely gets you in the door. Alternately, open up shop for two years and try to get someone to poach you.
|
|
#
?
Nov 20, 2016 21:43
|
|
|
CaptainScraps posted:Don't cold-call small firms. You'll get shuffled off. You want to email people. Definitely email alumnis and ask for meetings and career advice and ask questions about the field. Thanks, concrete advice like this helps a lot. I've always been averse to cold calling because I can't imagine any situation in which I wouldn't immediately be turned off if my position was switched with the person I'm calling. I actually think I'd like hanging a shingle a lot, but I'm too risk averse to try that as a first resort right out of law school.
|
|
#
?
Nov 20, 2016 21:59
|
|
|
Realtalk: Five years ago I was just where you were. I passed the bar on November 4, 2011 from a T1 school with no job offer and graduated into a worse economy. You'll be a-ok, I promise. G-Mawwwwwww fucked around with this message at 22:22 on Nov 20, 2016 |
|
#
?
Nov 20, 2016 22:17
|
|
|
Whatever
Nitrousoxide fucked around with this message at 12:05 on Nov 21, 2016 |
|
#
?
Nov 21, 2016 01:46
|
|
|
Dangerous Mind posted:When you go to law school how do concentrations work? For example, right now I'm majoring in Electrical Engineering and I can choose to concentrate in Digital Signal Processing or Electronics or Controls. Is that how it works with a law degree, where you can take different courses for a concentration, such as Intellectual Property? e: Though my ECE degree didn't work that way either.
|
|
#
?
Nov 21, 2016 04:39
|
|
|
The public defender job I'm applying to wants a writing sample. I haven't written much of substance for the past few years apart from ad hoc motions and some Mad Lib proposed orders. I blame the prevalence of fill-in-the-blank memos and my tendency to lead recommendation responses with, "...as we discussed earlier over the phone regarding my client's case...". I'm not sure whether to give them something I wrote years ago or paste together a bunch of emails I sent to attorneys for legal research jobs and present it as a single document. I'm leaning towards the latter. EDIT: Dangerous Mind posted:When you go to law school how do concentrations work? For example, right now I'm majoring in Electrical Engineering and I can choose to concentrate in Digital Signal Processing or Electronics or Controls. Is that how it works with a law degree, where you can take different courses for a concentration, such as Intellectual Property? Unless you plan on going to a law school that has mandatory attrition, take whatever classes you want as long as you can graduate on them and get a C or better in all of them. The exceptions are if you want to do Admiralty, Patent, or Bird law or if you want to get an LLM (probably for tax law unless your plan is to teach at a law school.) Since you are an undergrad, my advice is to take two sections of symbolic logic(probably 6-8 credits) and buy one of the many $30 books that teach you how to take the LSAT. If you're smart enough to do the math for electrical engineering and aren't a complete fruitcake, you can be a law student. eatenmyeyes fucked around with this message at 10:28 on Nov 21, 2016 |
|
#
?
Nov 21, 2016 10:18
|
|
|
Can we take all this encouragement and career advice to the PMs? We don't want lovely undergrads getting the wrong idea. We've got a reputation to uphold.
|
|
#
?
Nov 21, 2016 15:10
|
|
|
blarzgh posted:Can we take all this encouragement and career advice to the PMs? We don't want lovely undergrads getting the wrong idea. But it's more fun when hopes are dashed from a greater height.
|
|
#
?
Nov 21, 2016 16:19
|
|
|
blarzgh posted:Can we take all this encouragement and career advice to the PMs? We don't want lovely undergrads getting the wrong idea. Don't worry, I'll have another existential meltdown soon.
|
|
#
?
Nov 21, 2016 16:20
|
|
|
blarzgh posted:Can we take all this encouragement and career advice to the PMs? We don't want lovely undergrads getting the wrong idea. Paging Toona...
|
|
#
?
Nov 21, 2016 16:26
|
|
|
Nonexistence posted:So the firm I thought I was going to work for gave the position to someone with a few years of experience so now I'm officially a 3L with nothing lined up. I'm applying to clerkships and fellowships non-stop but that feels like a shot in the dark. Most of my close networking contacts are from clinics and past jobs and have nothing for me. I go to every meet&greet I can find and am good with people but it just feels very futile as a practical matter at this point because really who would hire a 3L who they haven't worked with who can't start until bar results for this July are out many moons from now. Our career services office is uniformly useless. Your grades probably are a little on the low side for these guys, but Hancock, Daniel, Johnson & Nagle is a decent healthcare firm in Virginia that predominantly hires locally. McGuireWoods also occasionally hires 3Ls in their Richmond office for their healthcare group, but that's also a bit more of a reach based on your described credentials.
|
|
#
?
Nov 21, 2016 17:08
|
|
|
I actually PM'd nm a few days ago and he hasn't answered yet. 
|
|
#
?
Nov 21, 2016 17:09
|
|
|
Toona the Cat posted:I actually PM'd nm a few days ago and he hasn't answered yet. I keep forgetting.
|
|
#
?
Nov 21, 2016 17:27
|
|
|
.
Discendo Vox fucked around with this message at 03:32 on Jul 13, 2021 |
|
#
?
Nov 21, 2016 17:57
|
|
|
Crabtree had this game in his hands for me in the end zone. gently caress that. He held on longer than nelson did for his td last night. Stupid NFL e: sorry work/phone posting also booo Nichol fucked around with this message at 08:11 on Nov 22, 2016 |
|
#
?
Nov 22, 2016 05:45
|
|
|
Did anyone's fantasy hopes get dashed by that rigged game in Mexico City 
|
|
#
?
Nov 22, 2016 15:08
|
|
|
algebra testes posted:Did anyone's fantasy hopes get dashed by that rigged game in Mexico City no because i won by 100 points and got just under triple the score of my opponent
|
|
#
?
Nov 22, 2016 15:21
|
|
|
evilweasel posted:no And you didn't start Brock Osweiler... (shuddup I'm a homer sometimes)
|
|
#
?
Nov 22, 2016 15:47
|
|
|
JohnCompany posted:And you didn't start Brock Osweiler... I'm a big patriots homer but you don't see me starting...uh... come to think of it, no patriots starters are that bad besides that one game they started their third-string qb
|
|
#
?
Nov 22, 2016 16:24
|
|
|
Another job searching related question: Anyone know people who clerked for a state court of appeals and went to work in a different state after they finished? Put another way, are state court of appeals clerkships seen as good experience by anyone other than local firms?
|
|
#
?
Nov 22, 2016 16:35
|
|
|
gvibes/other chicago lawyers: any idea what room the Fenwick high school football lawsuit is being heard in tomorrow? it'd be fun to go see it argued
|
|
#
?
Nov 22, 2016 22:00
|
|
|
mastershakeman posted:gvibes/other chicago lawyers: any idea what room the Fenwick high school football lawsuit is being heard in tomorrow? it'd be fun to go see it argued
|
|
#
?
Nov 22, 2016 22:37
|
|
|
gvibes posted:I don't even really know what a state court is. a shitshow it's literally gonna be an argument over which team gets to play in the football finals and people are gonna be real emotional
|
|
#
?
Nov 22, 2016 22:50
|
|
|
mastershakeman posted:gvibes/other chicago lawyers: any idea what room the Fenwick high school football lawsuit is being heard in tomorrow? it'd be fun to go see it argued Not a Chicago lawyer, but this news article says it'll be heard by Judge Kathleen Kennedy: http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/highschool/ct-spt-1122-prep-fb-fenwick-follow-20161121-story.html Her courtroom is 2502 in the Daley Center: http://www.cookcountycourt.org/ABOUTTHECOURT/JudgesInformation/tabid/169/cid/130/smid/1031/tmid/758/Default.aspx Which tracks the docket page to a certain extent: https://w3.courtlink.lexisnexis.com/cookcounty/Finddock.asp?DocketKey=CABG0CH0BFCDB0CH
|
|
#
?
Nov 22, 2016 22:53
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 5, 2024 21:21 |
|
|
wootles , thanks. I'm sure I wont make the effort but it would be a funny case to see lol the football school hired a giant biglaw firm for this. They want to play in the championship game really bad it seems mastershakeman fucked around with this message at 23:07 on Nov 22, 2016 |
|
#
?
Nov 22, 2016 23:05
|
|