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Starshark posted:Another post-mortem that an academic lefty friend of mine liked. Haven't read the whole thing yet, but thought you might be interested. This was excellent, thanks for sharing. The comparison of Hillary to a human resources manager was especially apt. Other than that, the author is totally correct that the mainstream media focused way too much on the stupid poo poo Trump said and failed to pay attention to his real talking points. I think the reason is clear: reporting that Trump talked about jobs at his latest rally doesn't generate as many clicks as reporting that he likes grabbing women by the pussy. Slow News Day fucked around with this message at 07:53 on Nov 20, 2016 |
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Nov 20, 2016 07:50
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enraged_camel posted:I think the reason is clear: reporting that Trump talked about jobs at his latest rally doesn't generate as many clicks as reporting that he likes grabbing women by the pussy.
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Nov 20, 2016 08:04
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Starshark posted:Another post-mortem that an academic lefty friend of mine liked. Haven't read the whole thing yet, but thought you might be interested. this is the best thing I've read after the election outcome
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Nov 20, 2016 08:08
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Confounding Factor posted:Once we get a tolerant right, they will take everyone equally to the cleaners. This will never happen because the economic policies of the right won't lead to prosperity for anyone but the rich. The economically depressed environment in which race nationalists thrive will persist, and so the Republican base will remain overwhelmingly white and racist.
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Nov 20, 2016 08:28
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Confounding Factor posted:Yep, CNN now has to compete with the likes of BuzzFeed and other clickbait sites. So whatever we consider "journalism" continues to blur with advertising and sensational distractions. Nobody wants to hear a news anchor that likes to browbeat us that we are underpaid, overworked, oppressed, exploited, etc. We want scandals and entertainment to distract us from our capitalist reality. Politics has become total spectacle, and who else to be a perfect vehicle for that but Trump? Do we even have a polis anymore? My Facebook feed is continually filled by bullshit from people I thought were intelligent and critical thinkers. Those sources are the new truth. Latest example: Top physicist/string theorist HAS PROVEN GOD EXISTS! Took about 15 seconds to find out this article first popped up over a year ago and was debunked as a hoax (no, really?). poo poo, the article starts with the scientist discovering this truth while performing tests on tachyons. You know, the particles our high school science teachers taught us were theoretical and move faster than light and potentially backwards through time? Yeah, still theoretical and unproven but this guy was totally running tests on them and proved God exists. Of course the debunking requires a smidgen of science knowledge or a tiny bit of googling, though how anyone can believe poo poo like 'GOD IS PROVEN TO EXIST' or 'ALIENS ATE MY BABY' at all is beyond me, let alone doing so without even questioning it. Holy poo poo, totallynotfakenews.com just said that we're all really made of feces and will be eaten by flies by Spring! 
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Nov 20, 2016 08:38
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RandomBlue posted:My Facebook feed is continually filled by bullshit from people I thought were intelligent and critical thinkers. Those sources are the new truth. It has to due with human brain architecture. If you can appeal to somebody's emotions (lizard brain) before their rationality kicks in (the crap piled on top of the lizard brain) you can absolutely destroy somebody's ability to think rationally about a subject. The other thing is that our brains are actually kind of lovely about sorting out too much information. In the wild (i.e., before modern technology) we just weren't bombarded with information all the time. If you weren't currently being attacked you were probably dealing with food somehow, be that farming, preparing for farming, or preserving it. The internet and contemporary life put literally all of mankind's knowledge right there at our fingertips, whenever we want it. Seeing as most of us lead pretty safe lives at this point (let's be honest, how many goons are at risk of being attacked by a predator...ever?) but are still looking for threats suddenly we find them. Now, the problem there is that all these media outlets are vying for our attention. It's a real problem; whatever can push the emotional buttons with LITERALLY THE MOST HYPERBOLIC THING EVER YOU HAVE TO KNOW THIS OH MY GOD MY SISTER DIDN'T READ THIS ARTICLE AFTER THE HEADLINE AND SHE LITERALLY EXPLODED BECAUSE OF IT THIS SCIENTIST THAT IS ALBERT EINSTEIN JUST PROVED THAT GOD IS REAL AND A CHILD THAT IS ALSO ALBERT EINSTEIN LITERALLY SPOKE TO GOD THIS MORNING BY THE WAY HERE ARE LINKS TO ARTICLES ABOUT THAT ONE MOM AND ALL HER INSANE TRICKS THAT LITERALLY VIOLATE THE LAWS OF PHYSICS BUY OUR PILLS AND YOU WILL NEVER AGE AGAIN AND ALSO BE A TEENAGE VAMPIRE gets attention. Bullshit travels fastest and your average person just doesn't have time to fact check everything. If it sounds plausible enough to the emotions it gets attention. Then it gets LIKED and SHARED. It spreads. But scary news that the world actually kind of sucks and there are no easy answers gets buried in "why are you being negative?" It's easier to hope for a better world than it is to actually build it. Snake oil sounds better than actual medicine.
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Nov 20, 2016 08:52
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Typical Pubbie posted:This will never happen because the economic policies of the right won't lead to prosperity for anyone but the rich. The economically depressed environment in which race nationalists thrive will persist, and so the Republican base will remain overwhelmingly white and racist. It remains to be seen if we go Trump's way or with Paul Ryan's Austerity for America Plan, but I'm betting on Trump since why the gently caress would you think Trump is going to be stumped by Paul Ryan of all people. And, he could gut Social Security and Medicare anyway and do Trump's public works at the same time, and it might give enough of a boost to the economy for the Republicans to cement their hold on power.
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Nov 20, 2016 09:14
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I think that's overcomplicating it. Critical thinking is a taught skill and people who haven't been taught it, either by teachers, friends, or family, don't have it.
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Nov 20, 2016 09:14
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Mokelumne Trekka posted:this is the best thing I've read after the election outcome We're hosed.
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Nov 20, 2016 09:22
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Like we don't even have the luxury of eventually being conquered by the Chinese because we have nukes. We're totally, totally screwed - no one can save us and we'll never be able to save ourselves. I had some slim hope that the Democrats would form some effective (mostly rhetorical) opposition even though they're totally out of power, but they're not even saying the things they'd need to be saying to hope to combat this. "We'll work on Trump with infrastructure but we're going to oppose ethnic cleansing" is not really the right tone. "Uh, yeah that's nice you want to build some roads but we Democrats are going to vote as a bloc against everything you try to do, on account of you being a genocidal maniac getting his sea legs" is better. I mean, they elected Chuck Schumer and will probably elected Nancy Pelosi to be their leaders. The Democrats are not going to be the opposition we need.
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Nov 20, 2016 09:30
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ToxicSlurpee posted:It has to due with human brain architecture. If you can appeal to somebody's emotions (lizard brain) before their rationality kicks in (the crap piled on top of the lizard brain) you can absolutely destroy somebody's ability to think rationally about a subject. The other thing is that our brains are actually kind of lovely about sorting out too much information. I just posted my Facebook manifesto telling everyone that I'll be calling out their bullshit and blocking it if they don't bother with minimal fact checking on sensationalist articles. I'm sure this will bring about a full reversal of this trend and that my actions mean something and I'm not just shouting into the void. Hold me. 15 Signs Nothing You Do Means poo poo MUST READ NOW
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Nov 20, 2016 10:49
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The foundation of critical thinking should be laid during the actual child rearing process leading up into k-12 by parents, but that's assuming that parents are actually parenting beyond sticking a tablet in their kid's hand or plopping them in front of a TV for 15 minutes of peace and quiet. It definitely should *not* be left in the hands of k-12 teachers, they have enough pedantic administrative bullshit and unrealistic expectations to deal with. I know we joke about requiring a written test to be a parent but I think a far more efficient method would be to take people that want to be parents and stick them in a locked room with the soundtrack to frozen playing on shuffle mode for 8 hours straight.
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Nov 20, 2016 12:21
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Confounding Factor posted:Once we get a tolerant right, they will take everyone equally to the cleaners. republicans would've never won an election after goldwater's disaster if they hadn't taken up the southern strategy so uh i don't see how this works.
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Nov 20, 2016 16:50
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The democrats need to stand for something. Hillary's problem was that she stood for exactly nothing and you can't expect average people to read Harold Bloom's 20 point plan for fixing the ACA in the new england journal of medicine. Something the democrats buried quickly but could've played a role in the loss was their overreliance on a piece of software called Ada. Apparently it directed all facets of the clinton campaign, including where to campaign physically next as well as ad buys and voter outreach. They were prepared to unveil how genius it was until the loss, which made them bury it. Obama had a sophisticated data and analytics team but that was a supplement to his campaign, not a replacement.
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Nov 20, 2016 16:56
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Confounding Factor posted:What happened? The left's obsession with identity politics came back to bite them. Been saying it for forever.
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Nov 20, 2016 17:03
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A Buttery Pastry posted:What would a tolerant right be, other than the Clinton democrats? Boom, no scoped it.
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Nov 20, 2016 17:30
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peengers posted:The foundation of critical thinking should be laid during the actual child rearing process leading up into k-12 by parents, but that's assuming that parents are actually parenting beyond sticking a tablet in their kid's hand or plopping them in front of a TV for 15 minutes of peace and quiet. It definitely should *not* be left in the hands of k-12 teachers, they have enough pedantic administrative bullshit and unrealistic expectations to deal with. The solution is don't have children. Peven Stan posted:The democrats need to stand for something. Hillary's problem was that she stood for exactly nothing and you can't expect average people to read Harold Bloom's 20 point plan for fixing the ACA in the new england journal of medicine. This is the most amazing loving thing about the whole campaign and as a software engineer I am loving horrified that they were willing to devote themselves to their silicon god so much. Technology is a tool, not a way of life or a replacement for basic reasoning skills. Pollyanna fucked around with this message at 17:47 on Nov 20, 2016 |
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Nov 20, 2016 17:45
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Pollyanna posted:This is the most amazing loving thing about the whole campaign and as a software engineer I am loving horrified that they were willing to devote themselves to their silicon god so much. Technology is a tool, not a way of life or a replacement for basic reasoning skills. If the technology you develop as a software engineer can't replace basic reasoning skills then maybe you just aren't very good. 
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Nov 20, 2016 18:41
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Confounding Factor posted:Once we get a tolerant right, they will take everyone equally to the cleaners. So... never then?
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Nov 20, 2016 18:49
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Confounding Factor posted:What happened? The left's obsession with identity politics came back to bite them. Been saying it for forever. That's basically what the Democrats have been for the last 20 years, though. Corporate-friendly diversity, and their own base couldn't get too excited for them even before the Twitter Wars.
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Nov 20, 2016 18:56
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Confounding Factor posted:What happened? The left's obsession with identity politics came back to bite them. Been saying it for forever. Yeah and a Unicorn would win the Kentucky Derby. The right is equally obsessed with Identity politics. It is just that they claim Straight, White, Christian and Gun Owner as identities.
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Nov 20, 2016 19:02
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Typical Pubbie posted:This will never happen because the economic policies of the right won't lead to prosperity for anyone but the rich. The economically depressed environment in which race nationalists thrive will persist, and so the Republican base will remain overwhelmingly white and racist. The demographics are changing though, you think the Tea Party is going to be around after a decade? I don't think so. I look forward to when boomers are finally dead.
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Nov 20, 2016 19:04
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Are the exit polls we are relying on for demographic info and analysis about Trump voters, the same ones that show Hillary winning on election day? How do we know all this analysis is based on data any better than the pre-election polling?
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Nov 20, 2016 19:05
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Are the exit polls we are relying on for demographic info and analysis about Trump voters, the same ones that show Hillary winning on election day? How do we know all this analysis is based on data any better than the pre-election polling? Yeah I've been a bit concerned about this as well. Are there any sources other than exit polls for stuff like demographic breakdowns, and if not do we have reason to think they're reliable (both in general and compared to 2012)?
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Nov 20, 2016 19:08
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Kilroy posted:It doesn't matter. They're all going to be given jobs working for companies that got the inside track in the Trump admin, building toll roads all over the loving place. The ones that don't get that will be put to work building a loving wall. Nevermind that the wall will be the greatest monument to the broken window fallacy ever constructed - the point is that in so doing the short-term positive effects of building useless infrastructure no one needs will allow them to further cement their power in 2018, maybe even enough that they can just start amending the Constitution to fit their needs. By the time the masses realize they've been had it won't matter because anyone who mentions the fact of it will be shot. So you can say "oh we should have paid attention" and I guess we should have, but we're past the point of no return now and the part of the electorate that wanted to burn the world because they couldn't or wouldn't fit into it, has got their wish. Pessimism of the intellect but optimism of the will, dude. It's their game to lose now but that doesn't mean they won't drop the ball or trip over their own feet. Trump is not competent and is quite likely to screw up very badly.
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Nov 20, 2016 19:09
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Confounding Factor posted:The demographics are changing though, you think the Tea Party is going to be around after a decade? I don't think so. I look forward to when boomers are finally dead. Why would you imagine social-conservative libertarianism isn't going to sell big among Latinos once they're firmly occupying the same established lower-middle-class majority niche old white dudes are? Even the BUILD THE WALL poo poo need not go far, once a significant body of them cease to identify as immigrants. A Wizard of Goatse fucked around with this message at 19:15 on Nov 20, 2016 |
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Nov 20, 2016 19:09
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https://twitter.com/mrjaycoles/status/800364234198630400 Sorry if I couldn't find a better attribution, but doesn't this sort of change the narrative that Clinton couldn't get enough people out to vote if she doesn't end up underperforming Obama either? (And as well 61.8m for Trump is better than Romney's 60.9m)
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Nov 20, 2016 19:20
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porfiria posted:Yeah I've been a bit concerned about this as well. Are there any sources other than exit polls for stuff like demographic breakdowns, and if not do we have reason to think they're reliable (both in general and compared to 2012)? Yeah, that's the issue. I see a lot of people writing things that sound good and confirm various pre existing narratives but I haven't seen much if anything that was based on solid data, and I still haven't seen a decent explanation for why all the polls -- both before hand and day-of exit polls -- got the race so badly wrong.
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Nov 20, 2016 19:21
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gradenko_2000 posted:https://twitter.com/mrjaycoles/status/800364234198630400 The issue is where she failed to garner votes; racking up the popular vote doesn't change the fact that she lost a lot of "safe" states.
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Nov 20, 2016 19:25
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Yeah, that's the issue. I'd have to go and look, but I think the nationwide popular vote polls weren't especially wrong/were within the margin of error if Hillary ends up winning by ~1.5 million. But you're right the polls were significantly off in a lot of key states, which seems to have blindsided literally everyone. Knowing why is important.
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Nov 20, 2016 19:27
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Confounding Factor posted:The demographics are changing though Not from being homophobic shitheads. Hating the queers is still a real easy and popular way to make buddies in the right. Hell, 2-3 of the guys coming to power love the hell out of conversion therapy even.
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Nov 20, 2016 19:33
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Peven Stan posted:
ADA? The combat AI aboard Jehuty in the Zone of the Enders games? Now I wish I could have actually let her blow up in Mars.
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Nov 20, 2016 19:52
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Ada Lovelace, possibly.
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Nov 20, 2016 19:56
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enraged_camel posted:If the technology you develop as a software engineer can't replace basic reasoning skills then maybe you just aren't very good. All code is terrible. All programmers are bad programmers. I, too, am a software developer. It's amazing software ever works at all.
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Nov 20, 2016 19:58
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Peven Stan posted:Something the democrats buried quickly but could've played a role in the loss was their overreliance on a piece of software called Ada. Apparently it directed all facets of the clinton campaign, including where to campaign physically next as well as ad buys and voter outreach. They were prepared to unveil how genius it was until the loss, which made them bury it. Obama had a sophisticated data and analytics team but that was a supplement to his campaign, not a replacement. Ada is a programming language not a piece of software. If you're going to say this poo poo can you at least look it up on Google first? This is like saying that Clinton lost the election because of her team's reliance on Javascript.
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Nov 20, 2016 20:05
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Notorious R.I.M. posted:Ada is a programming language not a piece of software. If you're going to say this poo poo can you at least look it up on Google first? Are you being an irony boy? The DNC's program/algo was called ADA, you twat.
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Nov 20, 2016 20:07
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Huzanko posted:Are you being an irony boy? The DNC's program/algo was called ADA, you twat. Literally the only source I can find on Ada as an algo is a Washington Post article that cites that, like the programming language, Ada was made after Ada Lovelace. The article is also lovely journalism that doesn't cite it's sources or tell us anything about the actual Algo: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...-didnt-she-see/ . Every other article seems to use this as a citation, there seems to be no other primary source news stories after Nov. 9. From this article, I'll concede that whoever was talking to the aid probably conflated Ada with a program written in Ada. Yes, they probably had an algorithm that did polling elections, and it probably ran on Ada. Ada is commonly used in the government sector in high-risk scenarios, e.g. avionics, where a program needs to be mathematically provable to do what it says. At the end of the day, this would seem to indicate that no one has any clue what they're talking about since this whole discussion ripples from one news story that started on Nov. 9th that hinges on someone actually understanding an aide correctly when talking to them. This is still the same as saying "The DNC's polling algorithm was called Javascript", and if that's used to start proving a point, I really wonder if whoever is making that point has any idea what they are talking about.
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Nov 20, 2016 20:35
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Some interesting maps coming in when you looks at the vote totals compared to 2012 https://twitter.com/jmilescoleman/status/800380033009324032 https://twitter.com/jmilescoleman/status/800002732023279616
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Nov 20, 2016 20:40
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Pessimism of the intellect but optimism of the will, dude. I'm not willing to trust Trump to gently caress up badly enough that the entire right falls. Tripping them up ourselves is the only choice we have, through obstructionism, grassroots organizing and activism, and antifa where possible.
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Nov 20, 2016 20:59
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PT6A posted:Yes. Getting called out on my bullshit recently, whence I got this excellent redtext, made me reconsider a lot of things. I believe that people basically want to be good, and are capable of change. I believe that all people, including rural people, have agency and control over their actions. Therefore, I see no reason to simply accept views on society that are actively harming minorities including women, the LGBT community, people of colour, etc. These are not unthinking animals -- they are people who are capable of realizing the harm their attitudes are doing, and if they want to sit and pout about it anyway, then we should send them to bed without supper (metaphorically speaking of course). This is from some pages back, but I wanted to mention that this generally only works if it's coming from someone whose opinion you care about (or in your case an online community you're a member of). The vast majority of people are not going to be persuaded by the condemnation of random liberals they don't know (any more than I care about the insults of random internet conservatives); if anything it might further entrench their views.
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