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Libluini posted:Must be the media bias at work then, because every time I hear something about her, it's her spouting crazy nonsense. such as?
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Nov 20, 2016 14:35
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botany posted:such as? This. Just search for NATO, Syria and Bundeswehr and practically everything is Russia-friendly nonsense.
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Nov 20, 2016 14:59
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botany posted:you should stick to playing the overeducated conservative, going full Riso is not a good look on you Maybe I'll do that once your allegedly left-wing SPD finally stops being on the same ideological rung as AfD and CSU when it comes to the social security net.
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Nov 20, 2016 15:11
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Cingulate posted:, at least if you like war and dislike a stable climate The war part I get, but what does the climate part refer to? Their persistent fear of nuclear energy? Because I have not heard of green politicians denying climate change or something similar.
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Nov 20, 2016 15:12
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Libluini posted:This. I see a lot of Erdogan-criticism, a lot of acknowledgement that the Syrian intervention was a catastrophe and a lot of "let's not start WW3".  Dealing with Russia through sanctions rather than armed military conflict seems smart to me.
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Nov 20, 2016 15:14
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Randler posted:Maybe I'll do that once your allegedly left-wing SPD finally stops being on the same ideological rung as AfD and CSU when it comes to the social security net. Who the gently caress are you talking to? Torrannor is the only person here openly defending the SPD, and iirc Cingulate thinks they're mostly okay. It's not like this thread is a bastion of Social Democrat supporters.
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Nov 20, 2016 15:15
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Babies Getting Rabies posted:The war part I get, but what does the climate part refer to? Their persistent fear of nuclear energy? Because I have not heard of green politicians denying climate change or something similar. I say that as somebody who voted Green before: Being against nuclear energy is extremely stupid if one is concerned about climate change. Unfortunately, the Greens aren't the only Anti-Atom Partei anymore.
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Nov 20, 2016 15:16
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I agree with that, but as you said, the CDU and SPD are probably as anti-atom as the Greens at this point. Either way, "disliking a stable climate" is not something you can reasonably associate with the Green party, that implies denying climate change, calling for more coal power plants and similar measures.
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Nov 20, 2016 15:20
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Randler posted:The SPD does more than "not offering enough resistance". It's actively working on being a FYGM party. OK, and now please explain how the Union is any better in that regard.  Randler, imagine for a second that you are a simpleton like me who believes that rising economic inequality, child poverty, decreasing social mobility, etc. are the main reasons why populism is on the rise in the east and that the situation is only going to become worse. These things take decades to fix, so even in the absolute best case scenario, the situation is going to continue deteriorating for quite some time before it can possibly get better. Can you understand why some people might be averse to the status quo right now, although things are still kinda OKish? Randler, look at the portrait of Adenauer at your wall and remember his words: "Man muss die Menschen nehmen wie sie sind, denn andere gibt es nicht". You need the majority of the population to believe in the system for it to work, even if you don't agree with them or don't like them. tl;dr: poor/dumb people and their happiness kinda matters in democracies
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Nov 20, 2016 15:38
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Raspberry Jam It In Me posted:OK, and now please explain how the Union is any better in that regard. They aren't. But the Union, in particularly from the southern areas as well as Hessen, is already widely known to be full of monsters, while there are still holdouts who think the SPD is good.  Also, Adenauer was a dumb motherfucker who should never have been in any position of authority within post-war Germany.
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Nov 20, 2016 15:44
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I don't understand why you guys are jumping on Randler for that. Müntefering, the head of the SPD, actually said those words as far as i can tell. All this "> implying" Kabbeln here is quite annoying since the base assumption for SA is that a poster is just loving around, and direct attacks without explanation are just indistinguishable from ordinary shitposting.
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Nov 20, 2016 15:47
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Randler posted:They aren't. But the Union, in particularly from the southern areas as well as Hessen, is already widely known to be full of monsters, while there are still holdouts who think the SPD is good. Realtalk here for a second, the only party you haven't tarred and feathered yet is the FDP and you can't seriously tell me that you think they are in any way shape or form social, competent or able to govern a bingo parlor.
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Nov 20, 2016 15:56
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Babies Getting Rabies posted:The war part I get, but what does the climate part refer to? Their persistent fear of nuclear energy?
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Nov 20, 2016 15:56
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botany posted:I see a lot of Erdogan-criticism, a lot of acknowledgement that the Syrian intervention was a catastrophe and a lot of "let's not start WW3". I agree with her about Erdogan, but the rest sounds more like terrible appeasement which will do nothing except empowering a fascist super-state to our East. This makes her unelectable for me.
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Nov 20, 2016 16:11
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Ich dachte Randler ist Linker?
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Nov 20, 2016 16:18
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Goa Tse-tung posted:Ich dachte Randler ist Linker? He is always what you hate most
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Nov 20, 2016 16:21
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Libluini posted:I agree with her about Erdogan, but the rest sounds more like terrible appeasement which will do nothing except empowering a fascist super-state to our East. This makes her unelectable for me. Now I have to ask: how would you deal with Russia? Are you in favor of an armed conflict?
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Nov 20, 2016 16:22
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Goa Tse-tung posted:Ich dachte Randler ist Linker? lol Maybe I would be more amenable toward the SPD when the local representatives would be a bit better. Instead I've got a woman who somehow thinks that her being a MdL elevates her beyond mere mortals and a guy who just the other day beat up a prostitute after her objecting to being filmed during sex.
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Nov 20, 2016 16:29
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System Metternich posted:lol wait what I missed that, link plz 
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Nov 20, 2016 16:31
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botany posted:Now I have to ask: how would you deal with Russia? Are you in favor of an armed conflict? No-one is in favour of an armed conflict, which is something Wagenknecht seems to forget. Russia is a state which only respects strength, meekly rolling on your back and worshipping Putin isn't gonna defuse the ongoing political conflict with Russia, it will only embolden them. So until Russia stops supporting terrorists in the Ukraine and Syrian dictators, I'd be in favor of more sanctions, more NATO-troops in the Baltikum and a unified EU-army to show Putin we're not scared of him.
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Nov 20, 2016 16:35
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botany posted:wait what http://www.augsburger-allgemeine.de/bayern/Verhaengnisvoller-Ausflug-ins-Rotlicht-Milieu-Wie-es-fuer-Foerster-weitergeht-id39744577.html
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Nov 20, 2016 16:38
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System Metternich posted:http://www.augsburger-allgemeine.de/bayern/Verhaengnisvoller-Ausflug-ins-Rotlicht-Milieu-Wie-es-fuer-Foerster-weitergeht-id39744577.html I love that the first comment is someone going "It's totally OK to beat up prostitutes if they take something from you it's not even illegal to beat them now don't let this issue sidetrack us from more important stuff"
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Nov 20, 2016 16:58
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Libluini posted:I love that the first comment is someone going "It's totally OK to beat up prostitutes if they take something from you it's not even illegal to beat them now don't let this issue sidetrack us from more important stuff" The typical reaction when a left-wing politician does something bad, especially if it's women related.
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Nov 20, 2016 17:46
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Here is how you should vote. 1. It's a nice idea to think you would get left policy if you vote Linkspartei, sadly it is not true. Linke is filled with career politicians of the worst sort, leftover SED and complete wackos. More importantly, they really do not have a workable "Wahlprogramm", because their program writer is only allowed to use slogan sentences as "Wir sind gegen ...", "Wir müssen ... stoppen", "Mehr ... statt ... ". It is also not allowed in Linkspartei to include any actual workable policy or even financement planning. This is okay, since once full communism is achieved within the first year of RRG, humans will automatically end their alienation and transform into perfect beings making sensible policy proposals a waste of time, even though all existing instances of RR or RRG have led to decline of every metric in every category wherever it was in power, ever, arguably Linkspartei has not managed to improve a single thing since for its entire existence. 2. One could vote for CDU but because CSU that means voting for literal Nazis as well. Also, it is well known that the civil side of of CDU is just a veil and a darker, beer induced Stammtisch racism is always ready to break through. 3. One could vote for SPD, but not only is Sigmar Gabriel the most incompetent human being alive, SPD politicians are the worst. Just like CDU and FDP, they are ego driven pro establishment. Other than CDU and FDP, they also lie about it. 4. FDP would be good because its the only party emphazising civil liberties in Germany. Sadly, it is also poo poo because of its base and the cold dead grip of lobby and capital, and if it came to power we would face privatizations that make zero economic sense. A vote here will probably not hurt anything though. 5. Green party is the party for rich people feelings. They are so light on actual positions or the will to carry any of those out that I guess it won't destroy the country to get another half assed ineffective "Umweltschutz" tax or restriction or whatever. So in conclusion, everything is poo poo and death is certain, vote die Partei.
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Nov 20, 2016 19:54
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Considering how poor me and all my Green-voting friends are I'm highly sceptical of this "The Green-party is for rich people"-shtick. I mean, I only see this opinion on SA, which tells me it's probably not real outside of SA.
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Nov 20, 2016 19:59
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Green party is all liberal elites like doctors or professors or people who can afford to be alternativ. Akademiker halt!
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Nov 20, 2016 20:06
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Libluini posted:Considering how poor me and all my Green-voting friends are I'm highly sceptical of this "The Green-party is for rich people"-shtick. I mean, I only see this opinion on SA, which tells me it's probably not real outside of SA. Nah, that's actually a thing. Also, if you and your Green-voting friends are young and/or still finishing up your education that is a sign that you're "poor" now, but will probably not be "poor" in a few years.
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Nov 20, 2016 20:07
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Libluini posted:Considering how poor me and all my Green-voting friends are I'm highly sceptical of this "The Green-party is for rich people"-shtick. I mean, I only see this opinion on SA, which tells me it's probably not real outside of SA. Are you still a student?
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Nov 20, 2016 20:08
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Libluini posted:Considering how poor me and all my Green-voting friends are I'm highly sceptical of this "The Green-party is for rich people"-shtick. I mean, I only see this opinion on SA, which tells me it's probably not real outside of SA. Really? You have _never_ heard this outside of SA? Like, you have not seen the statistic that the Green constituency has the highest median and average income of all parties? Or that the Green party wins in districts, where well off, young and high-income people reside (for example Prenzelberg in Berlin). Or the fact that it literally won in the state with the most rich people in Germany, voted by mostly the rich people there? And did you every go to an actual Green party meeting? Are you perhaps a bit delusional? Or let me rephrase this. I knew a girl who staunch Green party. Had the opinion that Bio should be mandatory. To which I said: "already many people can not afford Bio", to which she said "then we should just all eat a bit less". Issues she simply could not understand, of course, because she was from Stuttgart and her father was a millionaire. She, as a student with a normal income, was however convinced she was "poor". Are you a student? Are you "poor" because you accumulate human capital right now instead of money? Here is a hint for you and all the thousands "poor" students like you. You are not actually poor. Especially not if your parents are comfortably upper-middle class or rich. Thank ye. In any case, this opinion did not originate on SA and has been very public in many major news outlets including Zeit and Spiegel.
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Nov 20, 2016 20:09
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Libluini posted:Considering how poor me and all my Green-voting friends are I'm highly sceptical of this "The Green-party is for rich people"-shtick. I mean, I only see this opinion on SA, which tells me it's probably not real outside of SA. I take it you've never been to a super Green area like Vauban or Rieselfeld in Freiburg then? The prices in the local shops (invariably Bioläden, btw) and the fact that they razed the gently caress out of a trailer park populated by genuinely left-wing punks to build a "green city hotel" there instead where the rooms start at 90€/night without breakfast should tell you everything you need to know. Bundeszentrale für politische Bildung posted:Vergleicht man die heutige Wählerschaft der Grünen mit ihrer Wählerschaft in der Entstehungs- und Etablierungsphase, so fällt zuerst der Altersanstieg ins Auge. Waren im Jahre 1980 fast 80 Prozent der Grünen-Wähler jünger als 35, so liegt deren Anteil heute unter 10 Prozent. Wahlforscher sprechen mit Blick auf diese Entwicklung vom "Ergrauen" der Grünen. Viele Wähler, die die Partei in ihrer Entstehungsphase unterstützten, hielten ihr auch später die Treue. Dieser Generationeneffekt wird allerdings durch ein lebenszyklisches Muster überlagert, das den Grünen in den nachwachsenden Alterskohorten der Jungwähler bis heute überdurchschnittliche Ergebnisse sichert (Klein / Falter 2003: 144 ff.). Now that doesn't mean that the Greens are a bad party, mind, but you have to keep in mind that their politics will serve a very specific clientele and may therefore (in practice, if not in theory) not necessarily align with yours.
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Nov 20, 2016 20:13
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caps on caps on caps posted:Really? You have _never_ heard this outside of SA? Like, you have not seen the statistic that the Green constituency has the highest median and average income of all parties? Or that the Green party wins in districts, where well off, young and high-income people reside (for example Prenzelberg in Berlin). Or the fact that it literally won in the state with the most rich people in Germany, voted by mostly the rich people there? And did you every go to an actual Green party meeting? No, I really am poor. And my parents are so far away from "comfortably upper-middle class" it's not even funny to hear this poo poo. There were several points where I nearly had to break off my studies due to not having enough money to continue. In Germany. Let that sink in for a minute. Randler posted:Nah, that's actually a thing. 17% of the rich like the Greens and 12% of the poors. That's not as one-sided as you guys make it sound. Especially since a whopping 44,8% of the rich still vote CDU.
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Nov 20, 2016 20:20
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System Metternich posted:I take it you've never been to a super Green area like Vauban or Rieselfeld in Freiburg then? The prices in the local shops (invariably Bioläden, btw) and the fact that they razed the gently caress out of a trailer park populated by genuinely left-wing punks to build a "green city hotel" there instead where the rooms start at 90€/night without breakfast should tell you everything you need to know. The only time I was in the bad south of Germany was on a school trip 20+ years ago, I have no idea how people in the south live. Up here the Greens are apparently a lot better than that crazy lot you have to suffer under. But to be honest, I didn't know someone down there would even lower themselves to vote Green, that's kind of awesome and I'm saying this from a City who voted 16% Greens in the last election. And for Hannover, that was actually a bad result.
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Nov 20, 2016 20:27
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R2G still better than GroKo.
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Nov 20, 2016 20:28
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But it will probably be followed by CDU-CSU-AfD.
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Nov 20, 2016 20:29
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Somebody tell me what to vote for, my list of prefs is (ranked) must not be actual fascists must be pro nuclear must be pro gay
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Nov 20, 2016 20:31
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Libluini posted:17% of the rich like the Greens and 12% of the poors. That's not as one-sided as you guys make it sound. Especially since a whopping 44,8% of the rich still vote CDU. The rich are not the only non-poors who vote for the Greens, though. You know how the Greens having a higher share of the "Beamten", especially teachers? Every teacher vote the Greens get is a vote from somebody who earns significantly more than the average German citizen. (Similarly for most other Beamte.)
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Nov 20, 2016 20:32
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Cingulate posted:Somebody tell me what to vote for, my list of prefs is (ranked) FDP
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Nov 20, 2016 20:32
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Cingulate posted:Somebody tell me what to vote for, my list of prefs is (ranked) your hosed
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Nov 20, 2016 20:32
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Libluini posted:The only time I was in the bad south of Germany was on a school trip 20+ years ago, I have no idea how people in the south live. Up here the Greens are apparently a lot better than that crazy lot you have to suffer under. Uh, the PM of Baden-Württemberg, the loving epicenter of being bougie as gently caress, is Green and his party got 30% there last election. There are plenty of people down here who vote Green Cingulate posted:Somebody tell me what to vote for, my list of prefs is (ranked) I'm pretty sure that out of all parties that may have a chance to end up in parliament this leaves only the FDP. Sorry, fam 
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Nov 20, 2016 20:36
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Also, please keep in mind that a lot of people dramatically underestimate how much they make in comparison to other people in Germany, e.g. "But I can't be rich! I'm just a middle-class system engineer at SAP who earns a totally average 130,000 EUR salaray before bonus!" Beispiellink (Also "lol" at a Angestellte needing to pay PKV for his stay-at-home wife.)
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Nov 20, 2016 20:39
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